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Thread: Results Nationals 2010

  1. #16
    I was really pleased for B and R. Their time will come again in yorkshire. They have the best conductor in that area by a country mile and with a couple of players recruited in key possitions which they have the pulling power to do, talent will prevail over the dark shadow of cliche ridden mediocrity that has made banding the bore fest it has been for the last 7/8 years. I was surprised at the relatively simple nature of what was obviously a concert item with a random cadenza section thrown in for contests. Why is it that was apparently a championship test peice yet the very hard and musically pukka Diversions on a bass theme is now a lower section peice? The Albert hall was fairly dead, time for a change? After all London is getting harder and harder to afford and navigate in these tough times.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMead View Post
    I think the silence regarding this result is the collective sound of 4500 people suddenly realising they know nothing about brass bands.... How foolish we all feel that after listening all day to bands struggling with the test piece, we hear with Black Dyke (and Brighouse and Cory earlier) a truly outstanding peformance that had detail, class emanating from every page of the score, contrasts, accuracy, a fine sense of structure and musical shape with every phrase, with a sound as good as you are likely to hear this decade, only to be subsequently told it was the 8th best on the day. We all hold our collective heads in embarrassment at our foolishness.
    The future though is potentially brighter, if we dare to contemplate open adjudication, separate marking from judges, marking to a universally agreed and accepted criteria, using the brightest musical talents to carry out this very important task of dishing out our brand of musical justice to all competing bands and fee paying punters.
    So how do we move to open, separate adjudication for example? Who are we waiting for .... the bands themselves?

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by _si View Post
    With Open adjudication, the bands wouldnt know whether or not they were being watched and so they either choose to run the risk of swopping parts etc or not...i would hazzard a guess that bands wouldnt want to take the chance!
    So not actually answering the question then...

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by marc71178 View Post
    So not actually answering the question then...
    Sorry, I will try to make my point a little clearer....

    Q: How would the adjudicator follow the score whilst at the same time watch the band on stage?

    A: He wouldn't be able to, but the fact that he 'MAY' be watching would be enough to stop bands trying to deceive him.

  5. #20
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    How refreshing to hear a relative new comer to adjudicating at the highest level take the trouble that they had listened with interest to the composer on the pre contest talk and that they understood his requirements of the picture he painted with the music.

    B&R obviously found that picture as well.

    Others may have been technically faultless and produced a massive sound

    Alas according to the only person that knows that wasn't what was required.


    No issue

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMead View Post
    I think the silence regarding this result is the collective sound of 4500 people suddenly realising they know nothing about brass bands.... How foolish we all feel that after listening all day to bands struggling with the test piece, we hear with Black Dyke (and Brighouse and Cory earlier) a truly outstanding peformance that had detail, class emanating from every page of the score, contrasts, accuracy, a fine sense of structure and musical shape with every phrase, with a sound as good as you are likely to hear this decade, only to be subsequently told it was the 8th best on the day. We all hold our collective heads in embarrassment at our foolishness.
    The future though is potentially brighter, if we dare to contemplate open adjudication, separate marking from judges, marking to a universally agreed and accepted criteria, using the brightest musical talents to carry out this very important task of dishing out our brand of musical justice to all competing bands and fee paying punters.
    I Wonder what your view is of all the part swapping that goes on

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by tkhbss View Post
    So how do we move to open, separate adjudication for example? Who are we waiting for .... the bands themselves?
    Scottish Open 2010. Howard Snell, Hans Buchegger conductor of Brass Band Oberosterreich and Simon Dobson composer of the testpiece. All in the open and apart. SBBA lead the way again.

  8. #23

    Angry

    Quote Originally Posted by bassendworld View Post
    How refreshing to hear a relative new comer to adjudicating at the highest level take the trouble that they had listened with interest to the composer on the pre contest talk and that they understood his requirements of the picture he painted with the music.

    B&R obviously found that picture as well.

    Others may have been technically faultless and produced a massive sound

    Alas according to the only person that knows that wasn't what was required.


    No issue
    Well said. We clearly p**sed this contest by a mile, and it is sadly only a matter of time before this turns into a bitter and retarded "we wuz robbed" thread as always on here after a contest.

  9. #24
    tMP Friend in Training Stephen Bourne's Avatar
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    I sat in the front row so the acoustics are clearly different from those of the adjudicators. From where I sat the consensus was Brighouse, Cory and Fairey were all excellent but then so were Dyke. Dyke not being in the framewas the upset not Brighouse winning I would say.
    As far as moving parts around most but not all did it. I think I noticed a well known former top seat Dyke player sitting fourth man down for Brighouse. This 4th man did the repiano cadenza wonderfully. And why not? The proof of the pudding is in the eating.....
    Anyway you put it this was a wondeful test piece with some wonderful playing and one upset.
    A great day out.

  10. #25
    tMP Friend in Training Stephen Bourne's Avatar
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    I watched the faces of players from every band, even the experienced ones, as they came on stage and took in the wonderful arena that is the RAH. Long may it stay that way. Despite any arguments to the contrary about costs and acoustics, London is one of the greatest cities in the World and the RAH an icon within. Great to be able to tell your grand children you played there. And by the way you can get a pint for 2 only 3 minutes walk from the stage door.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingsmessenger View Post
    Well said. We clearly p**sed this contest by a mile, and it is sadly only a matter of time before this turns into a bitter and retarded "we wuz robbed" thread as always on here after a contest.
    Not my point, of course. My statement clearly congratulated the top three bands, just asked what happened to Dyke when 4Barsrest (and now others since) said they were very good. I don't think anybody has said B&R should not have won, just why were Dyke 8th?

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by tkhbss View Post
    Not my point, of course. My statement clearly congratulated the top three bands, just asked what happened to Dyke when 4Barsrest (and now others since) said they were very good. I don't think anybody has said B&R should not have won, just why were Dyke 8th?
    Bit controversial I know but Dyke have no divine right to be in the frame. An amazing band? Yes, amazing players? Yes, A baritone cadenza played on solo Horn? Yes! (last year the mutes?) Maybe, just maybe the failure to adhere to the composers scoring finally caught up with them? It is also surprising no one has mentioned the placed bands seem to have taken the piece less agressively than others and I believe those bands were rewarded because that's what the adjudicators wanted this year.
    My own band played particularly well and sought to capture Australia's less romantic side, continent with the most poisonous/dangerous animals on the planet, most areas of hostile wasteland, bit of a place where you walk in the wrong direction and no one sees you again sort of thing. We were in your face but it wasn't nerves or lacking class we actually wanted to portray an aggressive continent. It didn't pay off and we accept it end of story. The composers notes weren't exactly romantic or gentle in nature either. We don't think we got it wrong but fully accept the result and the adjudicators right to their own tastes. They mentioned not to their own tastes no fewer than five times in our adjudication? Bit of a conundrum there? Adjudicators tastes or composers writing?
    My own view is simple, you don't like the competition rules and sytem of adjudication
    don't enter! It's been a great year for banding with two unexpected names on two major's - long may it continue.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by tkhbss View Post
    Not my point, of course. My statement clearly congratulated the top three bands, just asked what happened to Dyke when 4Barsrest (and now others since) said they were very good. I don't think anybody has said B&R should not have won, just why were Dyke 8th?
    I think, the hearable parts-swapping combined with a bit of a "boring" interpretation (boring is certainly the wrong word, but Mr. King was the one the brought emotions into the piece) maybe did the trick that day.

  14. #29
    tMP Prime Friend jockinafrock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingsmessenger View Post
    Well said. We clearly p**sed this contest by a mile, and it is sadly only a matter of time before this turns into a bitter and retarded "we wuz robbed" thread as always on here after a contest.
    Maybe I have interpreted your statement incorrectly, and if I have, I apologise... but if I haven't I find your attitude sad, arrogant, conceited and blase. To me it sounds as though you are a player from the winning band? How you think you pee'd this contest by a mile beggars belief and, if I were also a fellow member of the band, I would be embarrassed by this statement!
    By the way - I was involved in the draw and heard what the adjudicators said they wanted from the piece - they had no preconceived ideas and only wanted to hear what bands could do with the music. No-one is claiming 'they wuz robbed' only their surprise about certain bands not being in the frame.
    Incidentally I thought Dyke were too loud...
    Fiona Rolfe



  15. #30
    Wouldn't sweat about the other places too much if I were you sweetheart. There is only one (Purple & Gold) winner, and 19 losers - put them in whatever order you like as far as I'm concerned.

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