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Thread: Results Nationals 2010

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    Results Nationals 2010

    Congratulations to Brighouse, Cory and Fairey in particular as being the three bands who gave exceptional performances according to the comments I have seen. Wasn't there, but 4Barsrest said they thought Dyke played well, but they didn't show in the top 6 - any ideas why anyone (other than that is what the adjudicators thought)?

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    tMP Prime Friend Brian Bowen's Avatar
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    It does seem strange that for a movement so utterly caught up in contesting there's been no comment as far as I can see about the result of one of the biggest contests going or the merits of the various bands. All I can find is a thread about the antics of one particular participant on the day.

    Was everyone left feeling numb?
    Brian Bowen

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Bowen View Post
    It does seem strange that for a movement so utterly caught up in contesting there's been no comment as far as I can see about the result of one of the biggest contests going or the merits of the various bands. All I can find is a thread about the antics of one particular participant on the day.

    Was everyone left feeling numb?
    Well, here goes.....

    There was some spectacularly good playing on Saturday. No-one got through the "easy" piece unscathed, even though some MDs tried to ameliorate the works challenges by rescoring it. (some examples of which left me open-mouthed!!).

    Cory were sensational, Briggus very, very good indeed and Dyke very, very good indeed (didn't hear Fairey's I'm afraid.) Rothwell, Leyland and GUS played very well too. For me, Cory edged it (just) because the piece really came to life when they played it; lots of detail in the fast bits and a wonderful flow in the slow bits. But the judges said there was not much to choose between the top three. And I was listening quite high up in the hall, so the judges probably heard different performances anyway!

    Not sure why Dyke didn't feature higher. From where I sat they didn't quite have the detail of Cory and Briggus in the loud sections but we are talking very small percentages indeed here!

    Paid 25 for a ticket and felt as though I had bought a ticket to watch a 10K race where lots the runners took short cuts. I have such admiration for the quality of the top bands, I would LOVE to see them play the piece as the composer wrote it. They have the best players, so, why not? I have an interest in this as a composer, of course, but also as a punter in ths case.
    Philip Sparke
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    tMP Prime Friend GJG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anglo Music Press View Post
    Not sure why Dyke didn't feature higher.
    'Twould be nice to be able to believe that they were penalised for the substitutions ...

    Don't suppose we'll ever know.
    Gareth J. Green
    MD The Egham Band

    "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result." [Attr. Albert Einstein (1879-1955)]
    ... which, logically, must make conducting a form of insanity.

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    tMP Senior Friend _si's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anglo Music Press View Post
    Well, here goes.....

    There was some spectacularly good playing on Saturday. No-one got through the "easy" piece unscathed, even though some MDs tried to ameliorate the works challenges by rescoring it. (some examples of which left me open-mouthed!!).

    Cory were sensational, Briggus very, very good indeed and Dyke very, very good indeed (didn't hear Fairey's I'm afraid.) Rothwell, Leyland and GUS played very well too. For me, Cory edged it (just) because the piece really came to life when they played it; lots of detail in the fast bits and a wonderful flow in the slow bits. But the judges said there was not much to choose between the top three. And I was listening quite high up in the hall, so the judges probably heard different performances anyway!

    Not sure why Dyke didn't feature higher. From where I sat they didn't quite have the detail of Cory and Briggus in the loud sections but we are talking very small percentages indeed here!

    Paid 25 for a ticket and felt as though I had bought a ticket to watch a 10K race where lots the runners took short cuts. I have such admiration for the quality of the top bands, I would LOVE to see them play the piece as the composer wrote it. They have the best players, so, why not? I have an interest in this as a composer, of course, but also as a punter in ths case.
    This is why all contests should be open adjudication... let the adjudicator see the performance as a whole and dont allow him/her to be hoodwinked at the bands leisure.
    Lets face it, chances are the adjudicators MUST know by the lead players tones etc who they are (ie even I can recognise David Thorntons playing) and so therefore the bands identity is not a secret anyhow!
    Let the adjudicators use their eyes as well as their ears and let bands who dont play the score as written be judged by the adjudicator for doing so! (my opinion only)

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    Which is all well and good, but how do you propose adjudicators follow the score AND watch the people on stage whilst all the time having to concentrate on listening to the music AND make notes on it?

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    tMP Master Friend David Mann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marc71178 View Post
    Which is all well and good, but how do you propose adjudicators follow the score AND watch the people on stage whilst all the time having to concentrate on listening to the music AND make notes on it?
    As other people have said, have another official in the open just looking for "infringements".
    Did anyone go to the open rehearsals? Did the bands in question rehearse the swapping of parts there?
    More or less retired from brass bands
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    Looking for new musical opportunities

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    Quote Originally Posted by tkhbss View Post
    Congratulations to Brighouse, Cory and Fairey in particular as being the three bands who gave exceptional performances according to the comments I have seen. Wasn't there, but 4Barsrest said they thought Dyke played well, but they didn't show in the top 6 - any ideas why anyone (other than that is what the adjudicators thought)?
    Does anyone know the actual results I cant find them anywhere
    If at first you dont suceed.....go to the pub

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    tMP Senior Friend _si's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marc71178 View Post
    Which is all well and good, but how do you propose adjudicators follow the score AND watch the people on stage whilst all the time having to concentrate on listening to the music AND make notes on it?
    With Open adjudication, the bands wouldnt know whether or not they were being watched and so they either choose to run the risk of swopping parts etc or not...i would hazzard a guess that bands wouldnt want to take the chance!

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    tMP Friend in Training SMead's Avatar
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    I think the silence regarding this result is the collective sound of 4500 people suddenly realising they know nothing about brass bands.... How foolish we all feel that after listening all day to bands struggling with the test piece, we hear with Black Dyke (and Brighouse and Cory earlier) a truly outstanding peformance that had detail, class emanating from every page of the score, contrasts, accuracy, a fine sense of structure and musical shape with every phrase, with a sound as good as you are likely to hear this decade, only to be subsequently told it was the 8th best on the day. We all hold our collective heads in embarrassment at our foolishness.
    The future though is potentially brighter, if we dare to contemplate open adjudication, separate marking from judges, marking to a universally agreed and accepted criteria, using the brightest musical talents to carry out this very important task of dishing out our brand of musical justice to all competing bands and fee paying punters.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marc71178 View Post
    Which is all well and good, but how do you propose adjudicators follow the score AND watch the people on stage whilst all the time having to concentrate on listening to the music AND make notes on it?
    you don't need to follow the score - you can see your favourite band coming on stage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by _si View Post
    This is why all contests should be open adjudication... let the adjudicator see the performance as a whole and dont allow him/her to be hoodwinked at the bands leisure.
    Lets face it, chances are the adjudicators MUST know by the lead players tones etc who they are (ie even I can recognise David Thorntons playing) and so therefore the bands identity is not a secret anyhow!
    Let the adjudicators use their eyes as well as their ears and let bands who dont play the score as written be judged by the adjudicator for doing so! (my opinion only)
    I played a lower section piece at Butlins a few years ago where the back row had the main melody for quite a few bars.
    The winning band totally transferred this section of the piece to the front row.
    I was sat in the front row when they played and was amazed at this blatant jaw dropping subterfuge.

    They won 1st Prize and we came second.
    (Our back row played well)

    I know that these things go on in banding, and I took it on the chin, but I think open adjudication would go some way to stamping out such blatant tricks.

    BTW, these are strictly my own personal comments, and, having retired from playing quite some time ago, I do NOT speak for any band whatsoever.

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    Super Moderator PeterBale's Avatar
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    I enjoyed the day on Saturday, hearing 17 of the 20 performances. We didn't stay for the results as we had family over for the weekend, but were very surprised not to see Dyke in the top 3. My personal feeling is that the adjudicators may have felt they took the opening a little fast, losing out on the clarity they were looking for. This was one of the concerns Martin Ellerby had highlighted in his talk at Regent Hall , which he illustrated with three different recorded versions.

    No quibbles over the rest of the placings, though. Jonathan had Brighouse first whilst I thought Cory had done enough to hang on. I was particularly pleased to see GUS in the frame: I thought they handled the solo passages as well as anyone, and it showed you don't necessarily need to have a massive sound to produce a good result.
    Peter Bale
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMead View Post
    I think the silence regarding this result is the collective sound of 4500 people suddenly realising they know nothing about brass bands.... How foolish we all feel that after listening all day to bands struggling with the test piece, we hear with Black Dyke (and Brighouse and Cory earlier) a truly outstanding peformance that had detail, class emanating from every page of the score, contrasts, accuracy, a fine sense of structure and musical shape with every phrase, with a sound as good as you are likely to hear this decade, only to be subsequently told it was the 8th best on the day. We all hold our collective heads in embarrassment at our foolishness.
    The future though is potentially brighter, if we dare to contemplate open adjudication, separate marking from judges, marking to a universally agreed and accepted criteria, using the brightest musical talents to carry out this very important task of dishing out our brand of musical justice to all competing bands and fee paying punters.
    Hang on. This record has got stuck again.

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    tMP Friend in Training SMead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Splitzer View Post
    Hang on. This record has got stuck again.
    Well, keep listening

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