Midlands Regional Championships - 2010

[IJK]

Also Fretty check your remarks from 2 years ago when we had one of the same guys in the box mine make interesting reading in terms of what he wrote yesterday

[IJK]

LynneW thank you for your comments you said in terms of volume?? but was it out of tune or didnt have style or just to loud?

It would be good to get your feed back

[Caprice]

All this debate about the dynamics in the fourth section does raise one pertinent question....if the accoustics in the hall at the Nicholas Chamberlaine college cannot cope with an exciting ff dynamic from competent bands who were NOT OVERBLOWING then surely the venue is inadequate. This is before we go on to discuss the abysmal catering facilities, lack of a bar or casual meeting place where people can take a break from listening to bands to chat with old mates. There has been a lot of talk elsewhere on here about the inadequacy of the Yorkshire venue - but I would take St George's Hall any day over this foul municipal college in the middle of nowhere. Sorry Bedworth but it has the same amount of daytime charisma as Dronfield does...

Couldn't agree more!!

[Caprice]

All this debate about the dynamics in the fourth section does raise one pertinent question....if the accoustics in the hall at the Nicholas Chamberlaine college cannot cope with an exciting ff dynamic from competent bands who were NOT OVERBLOWING then surely the venue is inadequate. This is before we go on to discuss the abysmal catering facilities, lack of a bar or casual meeting place where people can take a break from listening to bands to chat with old mates. There has been a lot of talk elsewhere on here about the inadequacy of the Yorkshire venue - but I would take St George's Hall any day over this foul municipal college in the middle of nowhere. Sorry Bedworth but it has the same amount of daytime charisma as Dronfield does...

Couldn't agree more!! - apart from the Dronfield bit!

[Caprice]

ff is relative though...if your pp or ppp was really really really quiet then ff won't be as loud as a band who's pp or ppp weren't as quiet.

Does that make sense?

Dynamics are a range aren't they and are all relative to how you play the quietest (or loudest depending on how to you look at it)...

One band's mp is another's forte.

Precisely!

[Caprice]

You have hit the nail bang on the head there though JPN! - all things arent equal - neither in terms of adjudicators being the same or the venue - I appreciate that to achieve that for the whole country would be impossible and therefore it makes it more of a 'lottery' as to having to appeal to the particular men in the box but there are a couple of things that may help to achieve a bit more consistency in the light of the comments from midlands 4th section - 1. To ensure that all sections are staged in a similar sized hall across all areas - ideally as in Yorks where they only use one hall, and secondly to move the boundaries of the areas to try to re-distribute the bands a little more evenly - perhaps it was because the ajudicators yesterday had to listen to 24 performances of the same piece that the more spirited and lively ones were interpreted as being overblown - to coin a popular phrase - 'their heads were done in'

[Thirteen Ball]

there is a difference between being 'loud' and having a big sound though...you won't find many top section bands playing a 'loud sound' but a 'big sound'....that is the difference.

I agree there's a difference - but I think you'll find a very large number of top section bands can play big AND loud - as well as playing big and quiet.

The 'loud' that hurts our ears is usually caused by the sound going thin and harsh, due to an inability of the embouchoure to properly control the level of volume the player is intent on generating. This is over-blowing. Loud in itself is not necessarily a bad thing, as long as the sound is big and controlled as well.

Having sat in the direct firing line of a Geraint Griffiths bass trombone cadenza on Journey to the centre of the earth at St George's a few years back. (Yes, I could've chosen a wiser seat!!) He is a man with a huge sound, and immense quality. But can also play very very loud! And yes, my ears did hurt a bit!! The point is that he, and the rest of the band for that matter, could double any dynamic I could put out - but without spoiling the sound. And I don't recall them receiving any criticism for being too loud. In fact, they won it that year.....

If there are bands in the section that have genuinely worked on improving their higher dynamics with quality, yet have been heavily criticised for this, then something is clearly wrong.

I agree, dynamic range (and the clue is in the word 'range') is not about how loud you can play and keep the quality. Nor is it how quiet you can play and keep the quality - it's the difference between the two. And there will be times when, say a Mozart fortissimo is more appropriate than a Wagner fortissimo.

But then how much emphasis should an adjudicator place on personal preference? In this example it appears to be a lot.

The long and the short of it is that if the acoustic is confusing adjudicators between those who play loud and those who over-blow, then it needs changing.

Did other bands (of other sections) in the same hall see the same thing reflected in their remarks?

[LynneW]

"LynneW thank you for your comments you said in terms of volume?? but was it out of tune or didnt have style or just to loud?

It would be good to get your feed back"

Basically too loud, especially 1 of the percussionists. In my mind, the style was good and tuning (but that's only my opinion)

[HowarthBrass]

Couple of errors cost us today, but it proves that last year's 15th was a freak result for us.

What a load of hog wash Rob!
Last years result proves nothing! Just because you had a reasonably good result this year, doesn't mean to say it was a freak result last year!

Mark H.

[HowarthBrass]

Well done to Cliff and all at Langley Band.
A well deserved victory!
Good Luck at Harrogate.

Mark & Lesley H. (Cov) .

[postie]

First of all we are really happy that we managed to get in the top 6. But what a day, it absolutely turned the grading tables upside down. When the placings came out for Ireland, Whitwell,and Dronfield I was gobsmacked. I do believe it is time that the Midland area did something about the number of bands in this section 24 is stupid. I can see in the next couple of years if say Welbeck, Creswell, Dunchurch come back and whoever else we are going to have section of 30 plus. They have sat on their hands for too long it's time this was changed more 4th section bands need promoting. We should be trying to redistribute numbers in the sections to even them out The section started at 10.30am in the morning and by the time it wrapped up it was 7. If more bands enter we will be there till 10 at night. It just really needs sorting out.

[needmorevodka]

If the hall cannot handle the volume then another hall needs to be chosen, it's as simple as that. Bands cannot be held accountable for the choice of venue.

I'm not too sure about this. I may be wrong, but I can't remember so many issues around the dynamics (or more specifically, bands being too loud for the venue) arising in the previous two years. Admittedly, I haven't played there myself since Dark Side of the Moon in 3rd section, so there's a great many of you with much more experience of the venue than me, but I can't help thinking that if it was the venue that caused the problem this weekend, surely the adjudicators for 3rd section in 2008 would have had the same issues, (DSOTM being a pretty feisty piece in places, that bands can get a bit excitable in). But I seem to remember a fair bit of praise for this venue when the contest first moved from Burton.

Seems to me then that it's more of an "adjudicator's personal taste" (or ear sensitivity) issue than a venue one.

Like I said though, I've not had much experience with this venue so I'm just thinking of the general gist of comments from the last couple of years.

[marc71178]

I can only assume that anyone who criticises the venue never played at the Bellvedere Club in Burton, as Bedworth is far far better than that dump.

[Elliebone]

No, I never played at Burton, but it really would have to go some to be worse than the college at Bedworth for an almost 9-hour day. Next time, though, could we have adjudicators who actually like the brass band sound? I got the impression these guys would be happier listening to a wind octet.

[needmorevodka]

No, I never played at Burton, but it really would have to go some to be worse than the college at Bedworth for an almost 9-hour day.

Oooh yes, it really did go some! Come to think of it the Town Hall at Burton was no better than the Bellvedere Club. The only real 'facility' there was a burger van in the car park. You had to try and find a pub open for any other comforts. Bedworth is positively luxurious in comparison, and people did appreciate that for a couple of years.