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Thread: Looks nice... Sounds nasty?

  1. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by davidwalton View Post
    I purchased a Classic Bari and Euph a few months ago. Only problem was 4th valve bottom cap needed to be replaced, and they sent me a new one.

    Both instruments have had a close inspection, and I am happy with the build quality, with it being far better than big name manufacturers have been known to produce in recent decade or so.

    Spending more has never meant better quality. If you think you need to be careful with Virtuosi, then you should be careful with all brands. A badge/name has been known to increase the cost of something for no other reason than history.

    In all cases, any lemon should be sent back and replaced without issue. I do think Virtuosi would do that as they have given me the impression of caring.
    Blimey Dave so this must be your 3rd or 4th change of instrument ( Flugel was still your best so far )

    Funnily enough I had a blow on a virtuosi Euphonium tonight at a junior band my son goes to ( couldn't tell you which model ) and TBH it felt a bit tinny and cheap, and the valves where awful. That said it doesn't mean their all rubbish ( like I said I've no idea what the model was ), and IIRC booseys made a few bad'uns in their time ( Bach's Elkharts aren't much to write home about )....
    Steve - Cornet, Trumpet, Sop, Flugel, Post Horn.... uncle tom cobbly and all!

    Alder Valley Brass
    Freedom Brass Ensemble

    Staines Lammas Band

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhatSharp? View Post
    Blimey Dave so this must be your 3rd or 4th change of instrument ( Flugel was still your best so far )

    Funnily enough I had a blow on a virtuosi Euphonium tonight at a junior band my son goes to ( couldn't tell you which model ) and TBH it felt a bit tinny and cheap, and the valves where awful. That said it doesn't mean their all rubbish ( like I said I've no idea what the model was ), and IIRC booseys made a few bad'uns in their time ( Bach's Elkharts aren't much to write home about )....
    Hi Steve,

    Changed from Flugel to Tenor and French Horn. Now at Bari and Euph, and will look to triple up on EEb when monies are available. With no band any more, but like to learn. One day I will find a another band that fits me, but will probably need to move for that.
    David

  3. #18
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    BTW- The Euph is said to sound like a Yam 642. Had someone who plays a 642 test it and they thought it wasn't that dissimilar. Close enough for them to wander about the huge price difference and to not discount it if a replacement was ever needed.

    I don't get valve problems. All valves on both instruments work well, and only require a little oil once a week or so, and that is me playing at least an hour every day. Have found that it is more important to wipe dry valves on these bigger instruments before applying new oil though, as the old remaining stuff (spit, etc) can gunk and then you do get slow and sticking valves.
    David

  4. #19
    tMP Master Friend on_castors's Avatar
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    On more than one site I regularly use, a post as overtly inflammatory as this wouldn't have lasted the hour!
    Interestingly they use FAR far less moderation than on here, but this sort of one off posting just is not allowed to happen, regular posters who input varied comments on a variety of subjects are given wide range to post, with little interference, but posters are expected to earn their freedom and demonstrate they are genuinely passing a variety of personal opinions and widely based comments before being given such free rein.

    While Virtuosi instruments are not the best things on the planet, nor would I expect them to be at the price, after handling several, and playing a couple it this doesn't match my thoughts on them, and such extreme opinion makes me question the worth of the entire post.

    Time will tell, but I somehow doubt this poster will pass the test of time, and we won't be hearing from him or her on a wide range of issues!

  5. #20
    Super Moderator Jan H's Avatar
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    It is indeed rather suspicious that someone makes such a negative first post and then doesn't return to the forum.
    But personally i don't see any reason to remove a post like this. And his points have been countered by several other forum members in a respectful way. Isn't that what a civilized debate should be like? As you point out, if Brassperi2009 doesn't reply anyy more, it will only make his original post unbelievable, and make it less likely that other members take him seriously.

    In the mean time, let the debate continue. So far, the positive stories are outweighing the negative ones imo

    (ps and if you think a certain post violates the forum rules, plwease use the "report post" facility: the button is on the left beneath the profile information of a poster)

  6. #21
    tMP Friend ABERDEEN LOON's Avatar
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    Has anyone out there had experience of JP instruments from John packer? I am specifically refering to the tenor horn, though experience with other instruments would also be usefull to know.

    cheers
    Andrew.

    "So Cunning, you could pop a tail on it and call it a weasel"


    Deveron River Brass

  7. #22
    tMP Prime Friend trumpetmike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ABERDEEN LOON View Post
    Has anyone out there had experience of JP instruments from John packer? I am specifically refering to the tenor horn, though experience with other instruments would also be usefull to know.

    cheers
    The authority I teach for has a large number of John Packer instruments - trumpets, tenor horns and mini-french horns. The only ones of these I would even consider purchasing again would be the tenor horns.

    The french horns have all had valve issues and EVERY one of them has also had to have resoldering done on the braces, which are very flimsy and either come apart from their soldering, or just break. These are not instruments that are getting a lot of abuse, some of them have been in the cupboard for a year, are brought out and the braces have come apart during the time of non-use.

    With the trumpets, the main issue is with the valves - even with regular oiling and maintenance they still stick regularly. The only ones that work well are those that have had the valves lapped a little more than JP seem to do.

    As with many cheaper instruments, they are cheaper for a reason.

  8. #23
    tMP Newbie BoneyM's Avatar
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    I've picked today for my first ever contribution as I've been a bit shy up til now. However, just thought I'd add my thoughts as I play a large bore Virtuosi trombone - it certainly does not feel as cheap as it cost and I for one love it to bits. OK, so there may not be as many intricacies on a trombone compared to valved instruments, but still it feels very robust. Granted, after almost 18 months there are some minor signs of wear and tear, but for overall value for money its fantastic - and it produces a lovely warm sound too which satisfies me.

  9. #24
    tMP Prime Friend satchmo shaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ABERDEEN LOON View Post
    Has anyone out there had experience of JP instruments from John packer? I am specifically refering to the tenor horn, though experience with other instruments would also be usefull to know.

    cheers
    I use a JP tenor horn for teaching and it is great no problems at all it compares favourably to sovereigns and I played it recently in the first section areas (I am a cornet player really but they were short!!!)
    I also have a JP cornet which is great, no probs whatsoever
    I have a virtuosi trumpet and flugel and they are fab too, Ihave had all these around 18 mo
    nths now and am very pleased with them
    satchmo shaz
    MD Long Eaton Silver Prize Band
    www.lespb.co.uk

  10. #25
    tMP Friend englishgill's Avatar
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    I tried the top model Virtuosi tenor horn about a year ago - they gave great service (ie were really helpful and tried to solve problems that arose) but the instrument just didn't do it for me. The 1st valve was damaged in transit and when that was fixed so I could finally play it the location of the lead pipe meant a bit of contortionism for me trying to hold it and play it like a Besson which gave me really bad neck and shoulder ache. I couldn't achieve the same full sound as I had previously on other instruments and found blowing generally much harder work so I got my money back. My advice would be to try it, if it doesn't suit you then get your money back - they are reasonable people.
    Gill English
    Shy and retiring horn player - you'll never know she's there
    Horsham Borough Band

  11. #26
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    I have a Virtuoso gold Eb/D trumpet with the long bell and have had no problems with it at all.

  12. #27
    tMP Friend for Life Aidan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ABERDEEN LOON View Post
    Has anyone out there had experience of JP instruments from John packer? I am specifically refering to the tenor horn, though experience with other instruments would also be usefull to know.

    cheers
    Hi Andrew,

    The most recent JP tenor horn wasn't released all that long ago (less than 6 months).
    I did a bit of testing with the aim of buying a set for my youthband.

    The mark IV is, as they advertise it, astounding value for money at around 400 if my memory serves me right.
    I have a friend at JP who I was testing for and although she told me to look at them only as what they are intended, (low budget instrument), and not to be comparing them with sov's/prestiges etc.. but it's only natural to compare!! The only other student model I'd looked at was a yamaha 203 which the JP completely blew out of the water both on value for money and overall quality (the build AND the noise the thing made).

    It has a fantastic middle register giving clarity and a great tone comparable to the new prestige/york or sovs. Lower register parps out well, from C above the stave upwards the sound deteriorates a lot, but then again, it's a student instrument, and by the time my kids are parping out top C's on a regular basis, it's time they moved on to a decent adult band or invested in their own instrument. Intonation all round was good, shame prestige and yorks can't make this claim!

    I know that at least one decent 1st section band in UK has opted for these mk4 JP horns over prestiges/yorks. And I don't blame them in the slightest, I ended up buying a full set for my band, and they are doing great.
    Also know of one v good player who took his daughter to try some new horns, she tried a prestige, york pref and the JP mk4 and wanted to keep the mk4 but her dad wouldn't let her as it wasn't a "top brand"

    I'm not too hot on the other lines, but I know it wasn't only the tenor horn line that JP were updating, and I'll definately be trying out other JP instruments when my band need them. Great value for money.
    Aidan

  13. #28
    FYI, this was my first post as I had only just signed up for tmp on the basis that a close friend reccomended the site to me after discussing with him the issues previously posted.

    I've not been online for a while as I have had issues of my own with regards to my internet connection being very slow so only check emails if that is ok? I stand by my comments on the chinese instruments as I saw the quality of the workmanship first hand - and felt that I was doing the general public a favour by flagging this up. It's only advise, you can take it or leave it... it is up to you!

    IMHO there is no longevity in these instruments - and think that it is ethically dubious to be selling and marketing instruments which are essentially cheap chinese instruments [that you would avoid on ebay if the location of the seller was in china] as "british made" instruments with implied "quality" or "standards". Why else would you advertise its "Britishness"?

    I know that the current shortage of YAMAHA instruments in shops is due to them outsourcing to China and having to then withdraw all the stock for not meeting YAMAHA's quality control which confirms my suspicions about the quality of chinese instruments.

    Who will be next to have their instruments made in China for the cheap labour compromising quality for profits... York...? Besson...? Bach...?

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brassperi2009 View Post
    FYI, this was my first post as I had only just signed up for tmp on the basis that a close friend reccomended the site to me after discussing with him the issues previously posted.

    I've not been online for a while as I have had issues of my own with regards to my internet connection being very slow so only check emails if that is ok? I stand by my comments on the chinese instruments as I saw the quality of the workmanship first hand - and felt that I was doing the general public a favour by flagging this up. It's only advise, you can take it or leave it... it is up to you!

    IMHO there is no longevity in these instruments - and think that it is ethically dubious to be selling and marketing instruments which are essentially cheap chinese instruments [that you would avoid on ebay if the location of the seller was in china] as "british made" instruments with implied "quality" or "standards". Why else would you advertise its "Britishness"?

    I know that the current shortage of YAMAHA instruments in shops is due to them outsourcing to China and having to then withdraw all the stock for not meeting YAMAHA's quality control which confirms my suspicions about the quality of chinese instruments.

    Who will be next to have their instruments made in China for the cheap labour compromising quality for profits... York...? Besson...? Bach...?
    You seem to base your argument primarily on one instrument you took apart, with which you did the wrong thing. You should of had it replaced if as bad as you say, not take it apart and rebuild it.

    People seem to forget just how bad Bessons were put together, and none were made in China. Not one, but a lot of what came out of Besson was made late Friday.....and to buy a Besson without Valve issues was like winning the lottery. Where was the quality control?...and at a premium price.

    Looking at my 2 virtuosi instruments, the standard of care is far greater!

    With any manufacturer you can luck out, and that should be dealt with accordingly, and with little hassle if the manufacturer cares.

    When you have one instrument that is wrong, report it, but do the right thing. No reason at all to try and pull down a manufacturer for one instrument, but remark on how they deal with it.
    Last edited by davidwalton; 14.04.2009 at 08:59.
    David

  15. #30
    In Hyacinth Bucket accent:
    I'll always prefer my Sov... I'm well known in brass band circles as a 1st Horn player who possesses an upmarket Tenor Horn
    Many thanks,
    Dan Jones
    Solo Cornet
    Gwernaffield Silver Band



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