Ding Dong!

[Charmed]

its that time of year again - the lower section national finals. the holiday season is all there is to rehearse in, half your band left after doing one last gig at the areas, it'll cost a bomb to get there... that's why it's never about who the best lower section bands are. it's about the quality and quantity of ringers.

one band, known only to everyone in the south east of england, has signed enough pros and non-regular players to drop their top man onto 3rd cornet for the contest, as well as bringing in a 'name' conductor. an expensive day out, indeed. can anyone beat that?

I actually agree that this is frustrating. But have they signed the players due to shortage, or are they replacing the players that regularly play with the band. If it's the first I can actually sympathise (to an extent) with the band. However, if it is the 2nd option, then in the long run, it will only be the band that suffers. If I was dropped for a 'pro' to come in for a contest, then I would definitely leave, and have in the past. I would only move off my position if a better player was to join the band and be there on a regular basis, doing all the rehearsals and all the concerts. Therefore this band must be at real risk of having very few committed players after the contest.

[2nd man down]

isn't it the good players leaving the lower section bands that makes those lower section bands have to resort to last minute recruiting, for example, for the nationals??

I seem to have had this conversation elsewhere. In one thread your celibrating the players leaving lower section bands and in another your criticising those bands for replacing them!! Good going! Awfully constructive of you.

[Charmed]

isn't it the good players leaving the lower section bands that makes those lower section bands have to resort to last minute recruiting, for example, for the nationals??

I think you'll find (terminator ) that it is not just lower section bands that have to recruit pros in for contests. Some 1st/top section bands have done the same over the past few years. So it can be a problem for all sections. And if you remember, I started a thread just after the area this year, asking why it was that so many bands advertised for players immediately the area was over. Was it because players left to go to other bands, or was it because bands had fetched in players specifically for that contest.

[2nd man down]

I think you'll find (terminator ) that it is not just lower section bands that have to recruit pros in for contests. Some 1st/top section bands have done the same over the past few years. So it can be a problem for all sections. And if you remember, I started a thread just after the area this year, asking why it was that so many bands advertised for players immediately the area was over. Was it because players left to go to other bands, or was it because bands had fetched in players specifically for that contest.

I realise it's not just the 4th section bands that have to do this. I think as far as this thread is concerned Starperformer is referring to all bands below the championship section as "lower section".

I'll be back!

[starperformer]

oh this example is quite a unique case, i was just highlighting the fact that the rules of the lower section nationals make it a complete lottery in terms of who turns up to play for whom on the day.

and in this context, "lower section" obviously means 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th, because of the contest we are all referring to. this is not my own view, just a matter of definition in context.

[stevetrom]

just a thought, but why not have a 'transfer window' in banding like in football?

if players could only move band between (for example) November and February no band could bring in ringers for the finals.

[2nd man down]

But that rules out anyone joining at the last minute who has genuine intentions of staying on after the contest, and lower section bands need every chance they can to recruit such players. In fact, 99% of bands do for that matter.

[Simon_Horn]

But that rules out anyone joining at the last minute who has genuine intentions of staying on after the contest, and lower section bands need every chance they can to recruit such players. In fact, 99% of bands do for that matter.

Myabe a contract system then? ...............[that's not a serious comment btw]

[starperformer]

you wouldn't have signed if you had to play for them at the areas, would you?

[Simon_Horn]

you wouldn't have signed if you had to play for them at the areas, would you?

Was that a question for me? ........in answer, I had already promised to play with another local band at the area ........the same band I did the last 3 contests before that with

[ratley]

Oooo ladies - handbags at dawn!

Yet another great thread SP

[ploughboy]

what a load of twaddle, Every band will do there best to fill any empty seats with the best guys available. It happens at every level.

Personally this year we've lost two basses (bigger banding challenge/new job), and a principal cornet (bigger banding challenge), there's not enough players out there (we all know that) so the empty seats we still have, have been filled by whoever we could get our hands on. We've signed a player on front row (been a national finalist hepls with the advertising and the profile of the band) who intends to stay (is he a ringer?) and we're extremely lucky that our 3rd man down seat is taken by a local guy who can't play full time and is helping out for the contest (as he has for the last 6/7 on any seat we need - played 3rd cornet at Area). Our regular 3rd man is a student and has showed great maturity for his years in suggesting that he step onto the back row as he can't make many rehearsals.

Every player/MD on here will do the very best for their band. But still I would take a settled team of players over a few quality "ringers" brought in at the last minute,

Garry

ooh, and as far as I know there's no plans to bring in an expensive "man in the middle"

[madandcrazytromboneguy]

i know a band who at 1 stage were down 2 just 2 basses, and recruited 1 player direct from a BIG brass band, and another who cud easily play in the top section if he wanted 2, that gave this band the best bass section in the 3rd section by a country mile, so friggin what, as garry said, bands fill with what they can get, fair enough its annoying when a band becomes FULL of players well above the level of the section they are in, but if they choose to go there then thats their choice, if a band can afford to pay wages for it then great, just means they wont be keeping them very long, then the band will go downhill again till they can do something about it. my local band had 3 top quality bass players, my mate even knicknamed it "the dream team" LOL, and yes it added a depth to the band for which most other bands in the 2nd section at the time couldn't cope with, and it was prolly 1 of the best in the 1st aswell, fact is, most bands will have a quality player or 2 here and there, but most regions will have the star bands that stick out no matter what, and ive just remembered, theres a band in the north west which even at 4th section level, some people said, give em 5 yrs and they will be in the top section, and now they are, its just how it is!

heres an interesting side topic for this thread, what is a ringer exactly, anyone got an exact definition of what 1 is?

[Charmed]

heres an interesting side topic for this thread, what is a ringer exactly, anyone got an exact definition of what 1 is?

3 Quotes from a dictionary:

a substitute or addition, as a professional musician hired to strengthen a school orchestra: We hired three ringers for the commencement concert.

a contestant entered in a competition under false pretenses

a racehorse, athlete, or the like entered in a competition under false representation as to identity or ability.

In my opinion, someone who has been asked (paid) to play for a band at a contest who is far above the level the rest of the band are currently at, purely to improve the chances of winning and with no intentions to remain with the band on a regular basis.

[JR]

just a thought, but why not have a 'transfer window' in banding like in football?

if players could only move band between (for example) November and February no band could bring in ringers for the finals.

not a bad idea actually - at least for the top section ...and bring in a rule (immediately) that prevents British Open contenders fielding stars from Europe and Australasia who will presumably return to play for their "home" bands at the next contest

John R