An American Band at the Open

[Sueee]

what are people's views on an American band going to the Open??

[Darth_Tuba]

I think it's a great idea. It fills the space left by Grimey for this years contest. Be interesting to see how they do.

[Keppler]

Anything which introduces new names and styles can only be a good thing. An "Open" contest which is closed to "outsiders" is a bit of a misnomer I think.

By all accounts IBB are a class act, and should provide stiff competition to *insert your bandname here*

If this goes well, we could see the invitation door being swung further open, to potentially kick off something very special indeed.

[On the Horn]

Hope they do well, nice to know theres another batch of bands out there to compete with.

[Sueee]

Anything which introduces new names and styles can only be a good thing. An "Open" contest which is closed to "outsiders" is a bit of a misnomer I think.

By all accounts IBB are a class act, and should provide stiff competition to *insert your bandname here*

If this goes well, we could see the invitation door being swung further open, to potentially kick off something very special indeed.

but if the 'doors being swung further open' why bother having a system such as the grand shield, senior cup n trophy... might aswell all be invitation only.

[Keppler]

I'm sorry if my facts are wrong... I was under the impression that the open *was* invitation only...

[Straightmute]

Its a part of the Open's rich history that they have invited bands from abroad from time to time so this in itself is nothing new. Between the wars the contest was won by an Australian band, but they were not allowed to take the trophy home with them!

In the past they have always been bands from within the Commonwealth countries but for the first time they have gone beyond that. The Americans ought to start getting in practice drinking proper beer and remember to bring plenty of money to hand over to those miserable g#ts that work the bar at Symphony Hall.

I'd be very happy to see one overseas band each year taking part, although in principle I think it would be a better contest if there were fewer bands taking part.

[sudcornet]

Bring 'em on. I think with Britain still being the centre of excellence as far as Brass Bands go (something we're still the best at!) where else should we have what will hopefully become a "World Championship". I know it is still a qualification contest, so I can understand why people may have a cause to gripe...especially those who have sweated blood in Blackpool, so I think some form of qualification events may have to occur in other countries. But, at the end of the day, where else should a battle of the world's best occur.....the home of Brass Banding that's where.
Sud.

[Sueee]

I'm sorry if my facts are wrong... I was under the impression that the open *was* invitation only...

ah no it's ok... your probably thinking of the Master's in Cambridge.

I think that this subject is very contraversial? is that how u spell that? lol... n I can c the good sides AND the bad sides... :)

[neiltwist]

i think it is invitation only. as is the national finals, you only get an invite to the finals, you don't actually qualify as such.

[TheMusicMan]

I think it's a great idea... why not I ask?? If it helps to promote banding throughout the world, especially showing the very high standard of our UK bands, then surely this is a good thing yeah?

[You wanna blow my what?]

Why should it matter that an american band are at the open may I ask?

[Darth_Tuba]

As far as I'm aware what has been said earlier is correct, the Open is invitation only. Winning the Grand Shield wins you said invitation. Thats why they can invite whoever they like to the Open. I believe Australian and New Zealand bands have been previously, but that this is the first non-commonwealth band to take part. As I said earlier, with Grimey unable to attend they are making good use of the space by introducing a new element to the contest. Be interesting to see if this extends in the future to european bands...

[Brian]

Hey I always thought the name of the contest was "The BRITISH Open", or maybe it's changed

[neiltwist]

Hey I always thought the name of the contest was "The BRITISH Open", or maybe it's changed

yes it is.

The British OPEN

[Brian]

If it is the "BRITISH Open" or the "British OPEN" or even the "BRITISH OPEN", does not that then imply that is open to "British " Bands only or is it that it is an "Open" Contest on British soil ?

[neiltwist]

good point, but i'm assuming it's britsh and open to all.

i think it's a good idea that an american band has been invited though. For one thing it will be good to listen to their style etc, and if/how different it is to british ones.

[Brian]

I don't disagree with you, but the majority of American "Brass" Bands do tend to use trumpets as well as cornets in their line-up, listen to Battle Creek Band (It can be very effective in the right pieces) but I'm not sure about the legality as regards contesting in the U.K.as it's The Planets for the test piece maybe all the bands would like trumpets ?

[Aidan]

this is the same argument we had at last years "all england" masters when Cory were invited... this could go on for ages :)

[BoozyBTrom]

If it is the "BRITISH Open" or the "British OPEN" or even the "BRITISH OPEN", does not that then imply that is open to "British " Bands only or is it that it is an "Open" Contest on British soil ?


Well what about the BRITISH OPEN golf tounament. That has foriegn players in it. It is basically a British Contest that is open to all comers.

[Darth_Tuba]

The band in question use an entirely "British" brass band format... i.e. cornets not trumpets. They have to to comply with their own contest regs. as far as I'm aware. On 4br they refered to some rule or other about commonwealth countries only being invited. I'm sure it's an outdated rule anyway.

[sparkling_quavers]

They have to to comply with their own contest regs. as far as I'm aware. .

so they don't have to comply to our contest rules?

[the fish]

I think it will be good for an American Band to be invited, any competition is good. It would certainly be interesting to hear how they compare with our top bands. Who knows we might learn something from them?

Julian

[neiltwist]

They have to to comply with their own contest regs. as far as I'm aware. .

so they don't have to comply to our contest rules?

if they're playing at our contest, they play to our rules!

[Brian]

What keeps crossing my mind is 1. If there is room for an American Band to be invited , there was room for one more band from the Section below who qualified last week (In Blackpool ? ) and 2. Now they have the promotion/relegation system will they be included in the six to go down if they are in that position or won't they count, as they were a special invite.This could cause all sorts of aggro from the British Bands in that position..

[neiltwist]

well, as was said before, it is invite only, so no-one gets demoted as such, but I assume that there is a clause saying the contest controller's decision is final or something similar.

as to why another british band wasn't invited, I don't know, maybe it was decided that a change was needed, or would be nice, and as julian (the fish) said, they may be able to teach us a little, although the experience they'll get will be priceless.

[dyl]

I think it's a good idea personally - injecting something different to the contest.

Plus, i think it's been a good P.R. exercise on behalf of the organisers - there's been a lot of coverage already since the announcement! ;)

[BoozyBTrom]

What keeps crossing my mind is 1. If there is room for an American Band to be invited , there was room for one more band from the Section below who qualified last week (In Blackpool ? ) and 2. Now they have the promotion/relegation system will they be included in the six to go down if they are in that position or won't they count, as they were a special invite.This could cause all sorts of aggro from the British Bands in that position..

I think the invite of Illinois is a great idea. Plus I think the reason they have been invited is to cover the absence of Grimethorpe who are otherwise engaged ( different issue altogether). I dont think it would have been right to increase the number for bands invited to the OPEN as that would then cause extra friction. Would the extra band be invited just to cover Grimeys year out or would they be given the 2 years grace each band gets. More headaches Especially when the contest organisers are trying to make the playing field at the open smaller.

[Sueee]

for what it's worth, I feel that the Grand Shield, Cup n trophy should not be there if it is 'invitation only'...

I'm personally sick of the system n think that it should be abolished after all it's only a money making exercise n many band's just get frustrated with the system.

However, i'm all for European/American band's etc. being invited to contests, as I agree with the majority of u, but I just think there's a big downfall in how it is run, n u all speak of Grimethorpe n how they should be replaced by Illinios-or whatever.. but surely that should be the job of Carlton Main? who got promoted this year...

Anyhoo, that's just my opinion, no doubt someone will disagree :roll: hehe

Sue 8)

[geordiecolin]

I think that it is great that an American band has been invited. It can only serve to strengthen the movement as a whole. If we carry on in our own little xenophobic way on our own little island then i fear that eventually it will lead to a decline in brass bands.

Just as there is no doubt that foreign players have improved the Premiership no end, a bit of foreign competition at such events as the Open can only serve to improve standards, i mean is any band going to consider being beaten by some Americans?? (I have nothing against americans myself though)
We can teach them how to drink as well!!

[Bones]

What keeps crossing my mind is 1. If there is room for an American Band to be invited , there was room for one more band from the Section below who qualified last week (In Blackpool ? ) and 2. Now they have the promotion/relegation system will they be included in the six to go down if they are in that position or won't they count, as they were a special invite.This could cause all sorts of aggro from the British Bands in that position..

A valid point I expect. However, I think this band is taking the place of Grimethorpe who won't be there I understand. As for promoting another band, I suspect that is a separate issues, especially as 3 bands were demoted from last year's Open, mind you 2 of them have gone straight back into it again.

Hopefully we won;t have another issue like we did for the Masters. At the end of the day these contest are by invitation only. My only gripe is that we do not seem to have a English contest, like the Welsh have one (or is it 3) to determine their Welsh Champions.

Interesting viewpoints though.

Cheers

Rich

[dyl]

My only gripe is that we do not seem to have a English contest, like the Welsh have one (or is it 3) to determine their Welsh Champions.


The Welsh Champions IMO are the band that win the Area - this is the only contest where bands from all over Wales compete against each other - hence why the winners of the Championship Section represent the country at the Europeans.

[Brian]

Just as there is no doubt that foreign players have improved the Premiership no end, a bit of foreign competition at such events as the Open can only serve to improve standards, i mean is any band going to consider being beaten by some Americans?? (I have nothing against americans myself though)
We can teach them how to drink as well!!

Are these in Bands or Football teams ?

[Sueee]

Just as there is no doubt that foreign players have improved the Premiership no end, a bit of foreign competition at such events as the Open can only serve to improve standards, i mean is any band going to consider being beaten by some Americans?? (I have nothing against americans myself though)
We can teach them how to drink as well!!

Are these in Bands or Football teams ?

lol

[the fish]

[quote="SellersSue"][color=red] but I just think there's a big downfall in how it is run, n u all speak of Grimethorpe n how they should be replaced by Illinios-or whatever.. but surely that should be the job of Carlton Main? who got promoted this year...

Very good point Sue, makes a lot of sense & Carlton Main deserve it!

Julian.

[Aidan]

but still.. the masters is an invitation contest... you cant qualify for it or get promoted from another contest, bands are invited at the organisers discretion, so you cant really argue :)

[Bones]

but still.. the masters is an invitation contest... you cant qualify for it or get promoted from another contest, bands are invited at the organisers discretion, so you cant really argue :)

We have to remeber that ultimately the Open is an invitation contest as well, the top two in the shield are invited to compete in the Open, at least that's how it reads when you look at the literature.

Alan Morrisong has somethin on his website about how it would be nice if we had an English contest to enable the qualification route into the Europeans. Could that be the Masters. After all the Open and the Nationals includes Welsh and Scottish bands. Or do you set the rule that the highest placed Scottish, Welsh and English Band from the Nationals go to the Europeans. It all seems quite confusing.

All the best to all a the masters this weekend.

Cheers

Rich

[yorkie19]

I haven't seen any reference to the fact that IBB have been invited to replace Grimethorpe.

As I understand the position, Grimethorpe have been invited to play as part of the Proms on the 13th September, and won't take part in the Open this year. That doesn't mean they won't be back next year, so promoting a band from the Shield this year would increase the number of bands competing next year (said band could hardly be relegated back to the Shield could they!?), which is directly against the trend of the last few years (23 bands in 1999 to 19 in 2002).

IBB are a band who won the North American championship for 6 years on the bounce before being banned from competing this year. I would wager that their invite is in recognition of their achievement on the other side of the pond than because Grimethorpe are playing elsewhere.

They have proved their ability against the bands in the States, and now they are being given the chance to compete against some of the best bands in the world.

Personally speaking, we should be welcoming them to the contest as guests, rather than complaining that this is the British Open!

Sam

[Straightmute]

IBB are a band who won the North American championship for 6 years on the bounce before being banned from competing this year. I would wager that their invite is in recognition of their achievement on the other side of the pond than because Grimethorpe are playing elsewhere.

They have proved their ability against the bands in the States, and now they are being given the chance to compete against some of the best bands in the world.

Personally speaking, we should be welcoming them to the contest as guests, rather than complaining that this is the British Open!

Sam

Spot on. Thanks Sam.

D

[geordiecolin]

[quote=geordiecolin]We can teach them how to drink as well!!

Are these in Bands or Football teams ?

I doubt anyone could teach Newcastle how to drink! Bellamy, Dyer and Woodgate (hopefully not Bowyer too) are doing it fine without outside help!!

[yorkie19]

[quote=geordiecolin]We can teach them how to drink as well!!

Are these in Bands or Football teams ?

I doubt anyone could teach Newcastle how to drink! Bellamy, Dyer and Woodgate (hopefully not Bowyer too) are doing it fine without outside help!!

Not quite in the United drinking-school class on the early 80's. McGrath, Robson and Whiteside could really put them away.

Sam

We got our trophy back, we got our trophy back

[sudcornet]

But....do you still see dead people?........

[yorkie19]

But....do you still see dead people?........

I think I will be on Sunday.

Are you goin' on'telly?


Sam