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cornetgirl
03.04.2003, 18:53
I'm currently using a DW 2FL on the Courtois and while it's a nice mouthpiece it ain't fantastic on the high register and I'm finding it quite hard work.

What does anyone else recommend?

Rach x

Roger Thorne
03.04.2003, 21:03
Soprano Cornet perhaps! :roll:

HBB
03.04.2003, 22:31
Roger, I don't know how many times you've told me this so



STAY ON TOPIC, IT'S NOT FAIR ON THE AUTHOR!

Just for the record ----- who would want to play flugal??? Stay on Tenor Horn, much nicer, and you don't have to bring ur elbows up! :D

Valvecap
04.04.2003, 12:24
Hiya!!!!!!!!

Having made the switch from cornet to flugel myself in the past, its a totally different ball game on the chops - feels ok for the first few pieces but then you feel like your high register has been demolished and your playing on your teeth a lot of the time - my advice? if you get a nice tone out of the one your on, stick with it - in time, the register does come back...

BoozyBTrom
04.04.2003, 12:26
What does anyone else recommend?

Rach x

Chuck the flugel in the bin and take up bass trom. We are planning world domination in the bass clef corner. :twisted: :twisted:

Keppler
04.04.2003, 12:34
What does anyone else recommend?

Rach x

come and play for my band.. we'll let you play in the low register.. ;)

Seriously, I've found that most DW mouthpieces are hard work - but the sound is nice. Not a flug player, but I know our one uses a DW

Hornblower RN
04.04.2003, 18:15
Keep using it flower.......I've been using a 2F for 15 years and believe me I found the change from soprano to flugel bad enough, but like you (I hope) I persisted and the high register eventually came. Wouldn't use anything else now..... :lol:

cornetgirl
04.04.2003, 18:32
Thanks Hornblower - I'm finding it is getting easier with practice so you never know....

But one thing's for sure, I will NOT be playing bass trom or sop!!!!

And who wouldn't want to be a flugeller (or is that flugella?) - we're smart, fun to be around and quite simply the best!!!

Rach x

HBB
04.04.2003, 18:41
Erm .......... that soooooo does not describe our flugal player .....


try ........


they're scruffy, annoying :P (jk) and well, the worst of the bunch =====

the cornets don't want them and the horns don't want them either! :P So they sit on the corner, on their own

Hard LIfe eh :? :? :?

cornetgirl
04.04.2003, 18:55
Flugel players of the world unite!!!! using whatever mouthpiece you prefer, let's flugel HBB into submission!

Doesn't Big Twigge possess a fludgelator? Oh Ben, you really should be scared...

Rach x

HBB
04.04.2003, 19:27
goes and changes pants! :? :? :? :D:D:D:D

If ya know what I mean

Emb_Enh
06.11.2003, 17:54
I'm currently using a DW 2FL on the Courtois and while it's a nice mouthpiece it ain't fantastic on the high register and I'm finding it quite hard work. What does anyone else recommend?
=============================================

Yes try the equivalent YAMAHA mpc...

DW2FL = 17mm INNER CUP DIAMETER

YAMAHA 16F4 = 17mm INNER CUP DIAMETER

You should find the INNER RIM BITE more comfortable to allow better lip vibration which will hopefully in turn open up the top end a little.

:)

tewkeshorn
06.11.2003, 18:18
if it's any help i used to use the 4BFL for years and found it very comfortable in all ranges on flugel, but the only way i can play flugel now is with a t-horn mouthpiece in it!

Jo Elson
06.11.2003, 18:42
I use a DW 4Fl, I got it in siver and gold. It's a pretty good all round mouth piece. It is good for higher notes and lower notes. The higher notes are a lot easier on the the gold mouthpiece compared to the silver though. But I would recommend the 4Fl, I can't complain, only my playing!!!

horn1
06.11.2003, 21:47
I always used a DW 4FL. Never had any problems with range.

I love Flugel!! Wish my teeth were up to it now! :( :( :(

Emb_Enh
07.11.2003, 07:12
The higher notes are a lot easier on the the gold mouthpiece compared to the silver though.
=========================================

In general----
Gold plating IMHO helps with lip flexibility and is more suited to the player who uses a wet embouchure but is not so suitable for the dry lipped player who requires more grip. Silver plating is generally preferred by dry lipped individuals. Gold plated mpc's also tend to keep a constant temperature better. Solid silver adds to the weight and therefore adheres to the above.

flugelman
07.11.2003, 09:51
Hi Rachel

I play on a 4Fl now. I previously used a 2fl and like struggled on higher regiseter. The 4 is much better for range and stamina.

David

Kippax Band

Sparky
10.11.2003, 08:53
Rach,
my missus tried several DW's and had the same issues as you. I then bought a mouthpiece manufactured by Gary Radke in the states and found a vast improvement in my high register and stamina. I then suggested that she should try a GR mouthpiece, she visited the GR website, filled in the questionnaire, got a recommendation and bought a mouthpiece. She loves it and feels that her high register has improved without losing the mellow flugel sound. The mouthpiece is a GR5fl. The website address is www.grmouthpieces.com

jd
12.11.2003, 17:13
Hi. Am new to tMP so forgive me if this doesnt work out.
I am currently working with Warburton mouthpieces USA. We have produced a new flugel piece that i am sure most banders will love. It is the same depth as a Wick 2fl, 4fl but has a lovely comfortable rim. Will be in the shops in the next 3 months as it has just been launched in America.
The Music Cellar in Preston will stock it so us northereners will not have to travel to London to try it.

JohnDoyle

leisa
13.11.2003, 10:38
the mouthpiece ive been using is really good on top regster, cant remember what it is but will look when i get home from college, but ive been gettin top Ds with ease but its silver though anyway ill post what it is when i get home.

Cornet Cat
13.11.2003, 23:09
I play flugel in our ten piece brass group, and I've been tring various mouthpieces over the past year. Although I use a Wick 2B for cornet, I find the Wick 2FL too big and too difficult to play in tune. Currently I like the RW4FL. I also have a GR mouthpiece that I like, but it's a bit bright for some things. It also depends on your particular flugel. One mouthpiece will work in one type of horn, but have problems in another. Good luck.

Darth_Tuba
14.11.2003, 13:06
Hi. Am new to tMP so forgive me if this doesnt work out.
I am currently working with Warburton mouthpieces USA. We have produced a new flugel piece that i am sure most banders will love. It is the same depth as a Wick 2fl, 4fl but has a lovely comfortable rim. Will be in the shops in the next 3 months as it has just been launched in America.
The Music Cellar in Preston will stock it so us northereners will not have to travel to London to try it.

JohnDoyle

For those of you who wish to see Mr. Doyles fine article on 4barsrest, here's the link: http://www.4barsrest.com/articles/adverts/ad003.asp

A pretty good article, apart from the picture :wink: (only kidding mate)

leisa
14.11.2003, 17:06
Mines a 4B4C :)

lizi
14.11.2003, 17:37
Who makes that then leisa?

Wick?

:?:

neiltwist
14.11.2003, 17:44
is it not a Bach?

lizi
14.11.2003, 17:54
Dunno, tis why i asked! :lol:

I play on a wick 2fl, and dont have too many problems with my high register nowadays.

Must admitt when i first made the changeover from 4fl to 2fl the high register was something i didnt see very often, but i just played through it, gradually makin my range higher and higher.
I changed over coz i believe that the 2fl gives me a nicer sound-nice and mellow. And i have a fuller embechure so it suits my lips! :D
Now i dont even think they can write the notes i reach on my flug!

I think i mite get hold of one of these warburton thingies-they look good and john doyle seems to know what hes talking about! i wonder if they do student discount? :lol:

leisa
14.11.2003, 18:59
sorry shoulda said its a courtois-tis not actually mine its the bands but i can get top D/E on it although that might be something to do that im actaully a cornet player??! i dunno if that would affect it though?!!

Rambo Chick
15.11.2003, 14:11
I'm currently using a DW 2FL on the Courtois and while it's a nice mouthpiece it ain't fantastic on the high register and I'm finding it quite hard work.

What does anyone else recommend?

Rach x

Hi im a flugel player and i play on a denis wick 4F. i dont know how the DW compares. i find it has a good sound and top register aint too hard either. but flugels are hard to play in higher register anyway!!

Carolyn, flugel, Yorkshire Co-operatives

Emb_Enh
16.11.2003, 10:50
but flugels are hard to play in higher register anyway!!
=====================================

With the greatest of respect Carolyn, perhaps you would tell me why you think this is?

What I am proposing is that you set forth your ideas [which I know many others agree with] and that, I attempt to present a different argument which may lead us onto some interesting points/misconceptions.

The purpose of this? --- for me to sell some of my embouchure books and for people to hopefully enjoy playing a brass instrument with more ease than they may do at present, all without an embouchure change or interference with what their current teacher is teaching them.

If you don't want to ---- MERRY XMAS ! :D

Hornblower RN
16.11.2003, 13:08
I believe Carolyn is correct Roddy...if you want to sound like a FLUGEL HORN in a brass band you should play with a deep mouthpiece like the DW2F or 2FL and getting a high range takes a lot of practice with this type of mouthpiece. In a brass band audience the sound of the instrument is vitally important. In a big band that audience is not so critical and when high notes are called for anyone can achieve this by playing on a Yamaha Bobby Shew mouthpiece for example or even a Bach 7c. Who wants to hear a flugel player screaming anyway? Stick with the deepest mouthpiece you can find if you play in a brass band.

Emb_Enh
16.11.2003, 13:30
I believe Carolyn is correct Roddy...if you want to sound like a FLUGEL HORN in a brass band you should play with a deep mouthpiece like the DW2F or 2FL

...I totally agree.

and getting a high range takes a lot of practice with this type of mouthpiece.

...I don't agree, getting a good range/sound with ANY mpc takes a lot of practice. Are you suggesting that a deeper mpc is harder to get more range on? please be specific..

In a brass band audience the sound of the instrument is vitally important.

I totally agree!

In a big band that audience is not so critical

well it's NOT made up of mostly brass players I'll agree...

and when high notes are called for anyone can achieve this by playing on a Yamaha Bobby Shew mouthpiece for example or even a Bach 7c.

I disagree, I know some players who can't achieve a decent range and or sound on any of the equipment you mentioned above.

Who wants to hear a flugel player screaming anyway?

I totally agree--I never mentioned screaming in the first place --one mans uncontrolled screamed high note means nothing. Playing [high] within a melody / musically is what counts.

Stick with the deepest mouthpiece you can find if you play in a brass band.

I totally agree

I may be mistaken --but--- you appear to 'possibly' assume that because of my website/sounclips/speciality etc that I have a hidden JAZZ/small mpc agenda --NOT SO -- PS...it takes more than being able to play high to hold down a full time west end of london theatre job. My last gig was playing quietly for 3 hours non -stop with just a piano in a small hotel function room for guests eating dinner/making small talk.

So my question sort of indirectly to Carolyn [or anyone really] was why do most people assume that a deep mpc is hard to play high?

I would respectfully point out I am NOT being confrontational - just trying to have a friendly conversation about playing high/brass playing/deep mpcs, at the end we may all decide to agree to disagree --no problem! --I'm genuinely interested in your thoughts, and hopefully you in mine --we're ALL brass players. :lol:

Hornblower RN
16.11.2003, 14:02
Great posting Roddy......at least we have livened up the debate somewhat...perhaps what I should have said was that using a deep mouthpiece on a flugel, after spending years playing cornet with a small mouthpiece TAKES A LOT OF PERSEVERENCE. I know it was difficult for me a few years back when I made the change from soprano but as I said in my previous posting I have no problem with the high range on flugel using a DW2F now.

Emb_Enh
16.11.2003, 14:22
Great posting Roddy......at least we have livened up the debate somewhat...

...Aha --no bad thing Mr.Alan!


perhaps what I should have said was that using a deep mouthpiece on a flugel, after spending years playing cornet with a small mouthpiece TAKES A LOT OF PERSEVERENCE.

YES --and...may I offer a technical reason for it. Obviously a smaller/shallower cornet cup allowed you to play/develop your embouchure into a degree of muscle build up/efficiency and when switching to the flugal set up [bigger/deeper] obviously the muscles were'nt big/efficient enough to cope with the switch. A period of re-adjustment or relearning / muscle building was required to enable you to enjoy your new instrument. No great surprises there then... :)

I know it was difficult for me a few years back when I made the change from soprano but as I said in my previous posting I have no problem with the high range on flugel using a DW2F now.

....Excellent --period of adjustment over! --well done!

...but...most people find deeper/bigger mpcs harder to play higher on..they generally blame the equipment, when it is more likely that their APERTURE at the centre of the embouchure is set 'too open' to be able to cope with the larger/deeper diameter change. They generally then resort to added mpc pressure in an effort to close up the aperture a little thereby MOMENTARILY regaining a little of the necessary control back. However this momentary gain utilisinng mpc pressure is shortlived as ENDURANCE is then compromised.

Basically the resistance in a smaller / shallower mpc is greater than a bigger / deeper mpc, thereby allowing a level of soundwave feedback to the lip, closing the aperture a little, and enabling the higher harmonics to speak. With a mpc that is deeper, the cup is further away from the lip and therefore there is less feedback.

Small mpc players generally use large bore horns to compensate for the initial blow resistance.

Large mpc players use medium bore horns to compensate for the lack of initial blow resistance.

Jazz based players tend to use larger [or lighter] bore horns eg. Schilke, Kanstul, WT, Conn etc. They need the extra responsiveness which a large/light horn gives to balance against the small [shallow] mpc.

Orchestral players tend to use medium [ or heavier] horns eg. Bach, Monette etc..They prefer the extra resistance/weight [stuffiness] created by the horn to balance against the lack of resistance from the larger mpc.

Continually arguing about whether a Besson/Bach/Courtois is better than a Yamaha/Schilke [please insert your favourites here] is pointless and irrelevant, as often style/mpc/delivery of air/breakfast items/oral cavity/length of tongue etc.. have'nt been considered or taken into the equation so as to make an 'accurate' comparison!

Rambo Chick
17.11.2003, 16:47
hi. i personally have little problem with the high register. thanks for the tip though i wont be requiring your book but im sure many will find it useful.

best regards carolyn

Emb_Enh
17.11.2003, 18:01
No problem Missy Carolyn! -- here's my email address for book info.

RoddyTpt@aol.com

my educational materials are designed help you find, 'chop-wise':

.......where you REALLY are.....

.....what it MEANS ....

......where to GO......

........+ HOW to make faster progress.

......ALL without a chop/mpc-change.....

......CAN be used in conjunction with ALL UK teaching methods in use...

BOOK 1
200 pages of self analysis + tests, advice / 50 book reviews
= 20 quid [p+p inclusive]

BOOK 2 + FREE CD
book 1 tests [+] in musical notation and INCLUDING a demo CD of all tests
= 15 quid [p+p inclusive]

Merry Xmas to all on this forum... :D