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picju96
02.03.2012, 16:45
Hi all,

Does anyone know what metal mouthpieces are made from and coated with? I've noticed recently that I get dermatitis on my lip when I've been playing my Bb cornet with a metal DW mouthpiece I've had for about 10 years in a relatively short amount of time. To try and avoid this I've switched to a plastic one which is taking some getting used to. In the meantime, I'm helping a band out on sop for the areas and am playing on a DW metal mouthpiece, bought about 2 years ago and not played on much. It's taken about 2 months for some dermatitis to come about as a result of that which started in the last week or so. However, to complicate it more, I played the trumpet on a mouthpiece which is about 15 years old at the weekend which might have something to do with it too.

I've been patch tested for the most common metals including nickel, chromate and cobalt, and currently have a palladium patch on my arm to see if it's that. All tests have been negative so far. I'm looking to see if anyone has any ideas what to try patch testing next - is there copper in mouthpieces?

Thanks,

Julia

tubafran
02.03.2012, 17:06
Hi all,

Does anyone know what metal mouthpieces are made from and coated with?

If its a standard DW silver type that would be brass coated with silver, as the silver wears the brass can become exposed - brass is an alloy of copper and zinc. You can usually taste a sort metal flavour if the brass is exposed.

I know some people who can only play on gold plated as they have problems with silver.

Its fairly cheap to have a mouthpiece re-coated in silver or gold

cornyandy
02.03.2012, 17:25
I've just got a herritage Wick 4, its rim and cup (and I think back bore) are all gold plated, in real terms I used to get a bit of soreness on my lip after a long session (on a wick 4B standard) however this has cleared up just a thought that might help

Flyingscot1974
02.03.2012, 18:36
My wife has a reaction to the DW mouthpieces if there is any damage to them, so we either have to get them re-silvered or buy a new one.
I have not heard of many people reacting to the silver as it is a very inert metal - most likely is there is some damage to your mouthpieces, even very small...

brassneck
02.03.2012, 19:31
Maybe time to try out surgical steel mouthpieces? There's plenty on the market.

Bayerd
02.03.2012, 22:30
Or just coat it in clear nail varnish.

brassneck
03.03.2012, 00:37
Or just coat it in clear nail varnish.


... that has a familiar ring to it :oops:

Aussie Tuba
03.03.2012, 05:11
Maybe time to try out surgical steel mouthpieces? There's plenty on the market.

way to go. This is what most commecial cuttlery is made from. I have been using Stainless for about 4 years.

pbirch
03.03.2012, 10:55
brass is a fairly toxic metal and will cause problems if you are exposed to it. it was my impression that the gold plating on DW mouthpieces was directly onto the brass, and it didn't last very long. I am also not sure that too many people give the necessary consideration to looking after their mouthpiece, it gets dumped in the case or cupboard and gets a bit knocked around and damaged, exposing the base metal under the plating.
For me, the mouthpiece is as intimate a piece of equipment as my toothbrush, it gets cleaned after each use, and is never given to anyone else to play with, minor lip infections and irritations might just be down to poor hygiene.

Accidental
03.03.2012, 12:35
I know some people who can only play on gold plated as they have problems with silver.
I'm the other way around - can only play on silver mouthpieces (which is weird, because I can only wear gold earrings!). It may simply be a case of the silver plating being thicker than the gold, and I can't use a silver mouthpiece that's been dinged or scratched through to the base brass, like flyingscot's wife.

I don't like the nail varnish idea - wouldn't getting enough on a mouthpiece to protect your skin mean fundamentally changing the shape and size of it?

jockinafrock
03.03.2012, 19:40
I had contact dermatitis playing on a gold DW, and it came on within minutes of starting playing, exaccerbated by the wetness - changed to the silver and never looked back. GP told me it's the zinc and nickel in the gold mouthpiece that causes the probs. Try a silver one and, like said before, take good care of it and avoid it getting damaged through careless storage as it will expose the bare metal.

LynneW
03.03.2012, 19:55
I'm the other way around - can only play on silver mouthpieces (which is weird, because I can only wear gold earrings!). It may simply be a case of the silver plating being thicker than the gold, and I can't use a silver mouthpiece that's been dinged or scratched through to the base brass, like flyingscot's wife.

I don't like the nail varnish idea - wouldn't getting enough on a mouthpiece to protect your skin mean fundamentally changing the shape and size of it?

I'm the same, I've found I can only use the silver coated ones but have had several Denis Wick ones over the years and not had a problem with the silver ones. (Ditto with nail varnish, that wouldn't appeal either although it does work on metal buckles etc)

Bayerd
04.03.2012, 00:16
I'm the other way around - can only play on silver mouthpieces (which is weird, because I can only wear gold earrings!). It may simply be a case of the silver plating being thicker than the gold, and I can't use a silver mouthpiece that's been dinged or scratched through to the base brass, like flyingscot's wife.

I don't like the nail varnish idea - wouldn't getting enough on a mouthpiece to protect your skin mean fundamentally changing the shape and size of it?

It depends on how thick you like it :wink:


Speaking from personal experience as a bass trombonist, it makes to no difference because of the size of the mouthpiece. It might make more of a difference on a cornet mouthpiece. However, before sending the gobiron off for replating, coat it in nail varnish, if it works you've saved a bit of brass, if it doesn't, the plater will shift anything on the surface anyway before replating.

fsteers
04.03.2012, 01:06
brass is a fairly toxic metal.Actually, it's not. In fact, silver is more toxic than brass.The only cases of "brass poisoning" (16 articles) that appear in the MedLine database (21 million plus articles from 5000+ publications covering biomedicine and health, from 1950 to the present) are due to:a) long term exposure to brass dust or fumes (may be a hazard for repair techs, but not ordinary players);b) direct ingestion of multiple gram quantities of brass (don't know anyone who eats or drinks brass regularly); orc) exposure to leaded brass (could be a problem with 19th to mid-20th century mouthpieces, but this is really lead poisoning as opposed to brass poisoning).Sensitivity to brass is an issue for some people, but sensitivity is not the same thing as toxicity.

skiosbod
04.03.2012, 20:12
Some newer mouthpieces are made from Titanium which are great if you've just won the Lottery to afford one. On the normal Person's wages, there's always Kelly Plastic mouthpieces and even wooden mouthpieces you can use if you're allergic to metal

TrumpetTom
04.03.2012, 21:25
Havn't read all the posts but just to add as I havn't seen it are aluminnium mouthpieces. I have a trumpet one, although don't really use it anymore.

GordonH
04.03.2012, 23:06
Jet Tone made aluminium mouthpieces, but most people had very bad reactions to them. They weighed very little and felt weird - heated up instantly.

Aussie Tuba
05.03.2012, 06:31
Some newer mouthpieces are made from Titanium which are great if you've just won the Lottery to afford one. On the normal Person's wages, there's always Kelly Plastic mouthpieces and even wooden mouthpieces you can use if you're allergic to metal

I have seen titanium coated Stainless ones but to me Stainless steel is good enough without expensive titanium coating.

cornyandy
05.03.2012, 08:45
I have had a play with a very deep ebony mouthpiece although it was a bit weird at first the tone was wonderful so it might be a thought

Big Fella
05.03.2012, 13:41
I discovered I had a base metal allergy about 12 years ago.
I found 3 ways around it.
1. Buy 2 mouthpieces identical and when one is being replated use the other.
2. Buy a Plexiglass mouthpiece from Joseph Klier
3. But Stainless Steel Mouthpiece..

I had tried all 3 and ended up favouring the bottom 2 as trying to find good mouthpiece platers became very difficult.

Chris R

flugelbeth
05.03.2012, 14:25
It is likely to have been the old mouthpiece- I have problems playing on my old cornet mouthpiece as there is a chip in the coating- could be this?


Hi all,

Does anyone know what metal mouthpieces are made from and coated with? I've noticed recently that I get dermatitis on my lip when I've been playing my Bb cornet with a metal DW mouthpiece I've had for about 10 years in a relatively short amount of time. To try and avoid this I've switched to a plastic one which is taking some getting used to. In the meantime, I'm helping a band out on sop for the areas and am playing on a DW metal mouthpiece, bought about 2 years ago and not played on much. It's taken about 2 months for some dermatitis to come about as a result of that which started in the last week or so. However, to complicate it more, I played the trumpet on a mouthpiece which is about 15 years old at the weekend which might have something to do with it too.

I've been patch tested for the most common metals including nickel, chromate and cobalt, and currently have a palladium patch on my arm to see if it's that. All tests have been negative so far. I'm looking to see if anyone has any ideas what to try patch testing next - is there copper in mouthpieces?

Thanks,

Julia

DMBabe
05.03.2012, 15:52
I discovered I had a base metal allergy about 12 years ago.
I found 3 ways around it.
1. Buy 2 mouthpieces identical and when one is being replated use the other.
2. Buy a Plexiglass mouthpiece from Joseph Klier
3. But Stainless Steel Mouthpiece..

I had tried all 3 and ended up favouring the bottom 2 as trying to find good mouthpiece platers became very difficult.

Chris R

I know one........ PM me if anybody out there needs mouthpieces redoing.

BrianT
05.03.2012, 16:16
I read of some brass instrument researchers trying out stainless steel as a possible tubing material. I don't remember what they said it sounded like, but I do remember them making the point that the untreated inner surface of the brass has germicidal properties which actively retards the build up of grot, whilst stainless steel does not have this property. So if you do get a stainless steel mouthpiece, you'll probably need to clean it more often than a brass one. And if you're thinking how much grot currently accrues in your instrument, it would be far worse if it were made of stainless...

brassneck
05.03.2012, 16:43
I read of some brass instrument researchers trying out stainless steel as a possible tubing material. I don't remember what they said it sounded like, but I do remember them making the point that the untreated inner surface of the brass has germicidal properties which actively retards the build up of grot, whilst stainless steel does not have this property. So if you do get a stainless steel mouthpiece, you'll probably need to clean it more often than a brass one. And if you're thinking how much grot currently accrues in your instrument, it would be far worse if it were made of stainless...

I have a Giddings & Webster stainless steel mouthpiece. Because of the way it has ben polished/finished, it requires less maintenance than other metal ones. Have a read ... http://www.gwmouthpieces.com/designs.html

euphymike
05.03.2012, 17:42
I bought a Loud mouthpiece, made from surgical stainless steel and well finished whilst in the states for my euph. Very good. As with everything in the states there were small companies who would actually make a MP to suit your chops as we are all different. Ok money vs whatever. But maybe we would all be better players if this was available over here? Whatever it's made out of

TrumpetTom
05.03.2012, 22:12
I read of some brass instrument researchers trying out stainless steel as a possible tubing material. I don't remember what they said it sounded like, but I do remember them making the point that the untreated inner surface of the brass has germicidal properties which actively retards the build up of grot, whilst stainless steel does not have this property. So if you do get a stainless steel mouthpiece, you'll probably need to clean it more often than a brass one. And if you're thinking how much grot currently accrues in your instrument, it would be far worse if it were made of stainless...


I know a couple of people who I think have stainless steel tuning slides on their trumpets.

picju96
07.03.2012, 10:52
Thanks all for your replies!