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Steve
05.02.2012, 00:07
If for whatever reason one of the area contests is cancelled, does anyone know what the contingency plan is?

For example, if due to adverse weather / fire / H&S reasons a venue is unable to host the contest what happens next? Obviously rescheduling would be nigh on impossible due to bands other commitments and venue hire, would the nationals be the same without a whole area represented in one/two/all sections and do the organisers have sufficient insurance to ensure that all bands expenditure for the contest (ie entry fees, test piece, bus fees etc) can be covered?

ian perks
05.02.2012, 08:04
A very good point made here:clap: as anyone else thought about this

skweeky
05.02.2012, 08:15
I think the whole of planet earth would instantly combust! I mean, it's unheard of. It would be a sure sign of Armageddon!
:cool:

The Wherryman
05.02.2012, 09:36
A very good point made here:clap: as anyone else thought about thisApparently not. The Rules (http://www.kapitol.co.uk/index.php?id=5) are silent on the subject. Perhaps the thought is just too unthinkable.

Thirteen Ball
05.02.2012, 12:06
My guess is that the ol' dunkirk spirit would kick in and it would get reorganised somehow - albeit I'm hoping it doesn't happen because a lot of people put a lot of time into organising area contests and they'd be the ones running round trying to rearrange things and getting twice as frazzled in the process!!

Will the Sec
05.02.2012, 12:10
Just pick lots to decide who finished where, with the top three going to the finals!

Bass Trumpet
05.02.2012, 13:06
Just pick lots to decide who finished where, with the top three going to the finals!

Some would say that they did that anyway :D

Thirteen Ball
05.02.2012, 13:16
Believe it or not, in football world cups, if teams in the group stage are dead level on points, goal difference etc (say all the games in the group end as 1-1 draws) they do actually draw lots to see who goes through.

johnmartin
05.02.2012, 13:17
Well this almost did happen at the Scottish Championships in Motherwell in 2006. Heavy snow on the morning of the contest meant that only Lochgelly and Dalmellington were actually in the hall for the start of the 1st section contest. A delayed start allowed others to turn up and I believe a lot of player borrowing was allowed to get complete lineups on stage. There was a point early on that morning when a cancellation was seriously considered. Eventually though it did go ahead.

James Yelland
05.02.2012, 13:43
Believe it or not, in football world cups, if teams in the group stage are dead level on points, goal difference etc (say all the games in the group end as 1-1 draws) they do actually draw lots to see who goes through.

The same applies (also believe it or not) to elections, if two or more candidates have equal numbers of votes.

Steve
05.02.2012, 15:00
For a one off contest I would imagine a cancellation isn't the end of the world, however disappointing. But the areas..... that has a massive impact.

Imagine the worst case scenario, which is the Yorkshire area being cancelled. I would suggest that there is zero chance of finding a weekend where all the bands are available as 3 of the competitors do in excess of 30/40 gigs a year and the lower section bands cannot (probably) afford to be cancelling a previously booked concert. If someone does cancel a concert, who would fill their place as all the other bands are at the contest too?!

Seriously, there must be an official answer to this. It cant just have not been thought about by anyone, ever, can it......! :rolleyes:

Bandsman1
05.02.2012, 15:47
In foorball they have a "POOLS PANEL" to say who (in their opinion) would have won, perhaps a team of qualified adjudicators could do the same? But of course, no one from that area could be on the panel. Sounds like a plan to me. SORTED! :-)

The Wherryman
05.02.2012, 16:08
In foorball they have a "POOLS PANEL" to say who (in their opinion) would have won, perhaps a team of qualified adjudicators could do the same? But of course, no one from that area could be on the panel. Sounds like a plan to me. SORTED! :-)The Pools Panel can look at last weeks performance, and the week before and the week before...

To use the same process for the Areas, the panel would only be able to look at the previous year's performance. A year is a long time in banding - players come and go, and last year's band can be well above (or below) what this year's band is capable of. Just look at the way some bands zoom up (or down) the sections.

MoominDave
05.02.2012, 16:13
You can look at other contests too to get an idea of a band's current form. Paddy Flower does this, and the odds that he gives are pretty reliable. But contest results are so subjective that no-one would ever take a low placing with good grace.

Perhaps the fairest way to do it would be to arrange for all bands to record their performances in their rehearsal rooms in some official and consistent way. Then the area committee could pass all of these on to the adjudicator, who could make the adjudication from the comfort of their own living room. It might even make for a better adjudication!

subtlevib
05.02.2012, 16:23
F
But the areas..... that has a massive impact.

Imagine the worst case scenario, which is the Yorkshire area being cancelled. I would suggest that there is zero chance of finding a weekend where all the bands are available as 3 of the competitors do in excess of 30/40 gigs a year and the lower section bands cannot (probably) afford to be cancelling a previously booked concert. If someone does cancel a concert, who would fill their place as all the other bands are at the contest too?!

:rolleyes:

OMG, are there actually any signs of life outside Yorkshire?

bbg
05.02.2012, 16:37
Well this almost did happen at the Scottish Championships in Motherwell in 2006. Heavy snow on the morning of the contest meant that only Lochgelly and Dalmellington were actually in the hall for the start of the 1st section contest. A delayed start allowed others to turn up and I believe a lot of player borrowing was allowed to get complete lineups on stage. There was a point early on that morning when a cancellation was seriously considered. Eventually though it did go ahead.

Remember that year well - the 1st Section was on the Sunday ; on the Saturday we set off from Perth in horrendous snow wondering if we'd get anywhere near Motherwell, only to find that the weather improved drastically about halfway there and the first two sessions of the day ran pretty much to time. Weather changing meant that a couple of 4th section bands were running late for the evening but I think that all was sorted out draw-wise in a common sense manner.
Dalmelington won the 1st after many bands did indeed have terrible journeys......wuth the test piece being "Voyage of Discovery"!

Bass Trumpet
05.02.2012, 16:40
Perhaps the fairest way to do it would be to arrange for all bands to record their performances in their rehearsal rooms in some official and consistent way. Then the area committee could pass all of these on to the adjudicator, who could make the adjudication from the comfort of their own living room. It might even make for a better adjudication!

That's revolutionary talk, that is. When you get home tonight, check all lampshades for bugs/listening devices. You have now been placed on a MI5 'watch' list, your mail will be opened and all overblown notes during rehearsals will be noted down on your file.

Steve
05.02.2012, 19:46
OMG, are there actually any signs of life outside Yorkshire?

Erm, I hope so as I live in the Midlands. Name me 3 Midlands bands that are equally as busy as the 3 in my example..........

Accidental
05.02.2012, 20:09
Imagine the worst case scenario, which is the Yorkshire area being cancelled.
Its not really the worst case scenario for 400+ bands in the other 7 regions......!

IF any regional contest was rescheduled, I'm guessing most bands would manage to make it - I get your point, and it would obviously be a logistical nightmare for contest organisers and bands secs, but gigs can be rescheduled or subbed out to bands from other regions and a lot of players could/would change plans to be there on a different date.

It would be good to know what (if any plan) Kapitol and the regional committees do have in place, but I honestly can't imagine weather conditions in March ever being so bad that an entire area contest would have to be cancelled/rescheduled.

Has it ever happened before?

GJG
05.02.2012, 20:24
... a lot of players could/would change plans to be there on a different date.



Mmm, not entirely convinced. This year it's not an issue for us, because out section falls on the Sunday, however the circumstances would be different if it were a Saturday. I know that for a number of our members who work in retail, Saturdays are a major headache; in the first place they are only allowed a limited number of Saturdays as holidays in a year, and that because coverage has be organised with other staff, once Saturdays are booked they are not always easily cancelled/rescheduled. In fact, in general with the way in which companys are reducing staff coverage, booking holidays for band engagements is proving increasingly problematic (especially for parents with school-age children). To the extent that we are increasinlg facing pressure from some members to make decisions about which contests/concerts the band will commit to almost a year in advance. Clearly this is not always possible, but it is a factor.

Accidental
05.02.2012, 21:09
fair one Gareth, but really the main point I was tring to make was that there is more to 'the areas' than just 3 busy bands in Yorkshire!
I also think that in the extremely unlikely event of a regional contest being scheduled, the majority of bands would manage to make it, even if a few players were missing.

Will the Sec
05.02.2012, 21:27
Perhaps the fairest way to do it would be to arrange for all bands to record their performances in their rehearsal rooms in some official and consistent way. Then the area committee could pass all of these on to the adjudicator, who could make the adjudication from the comfort of their own living room. It might even make for a better adjudication!

How about the adjudicators do adjudicate from their sitting room, but by using Skype? Would save a packet in expenses....

euph77
05.02.2012, 21:59
but by using Skype? Would save a packet in expenses....

other video conferencing services are available! :tongue:

pedaller
05.02.2012, 23:22
Erm, I hope so as I live in the Midlands. Name me 3 Midlands bands that are equally as busy as the 3 in my example..........

Fodens, Fairey, Leyland !

Bayerd
05.02.2012, 23:33
Fodens, Fairey, Leyland !

My grasp of geography is getting the better of me again.

Since when were any of those in the Midlands?

pedaller
05.02.2012, 23:58
My grasp of geography is getting the better of me again.

Since when were any of those in the Midlands?

Sorry, I was replying to the original post about the 'disaster' of a cancelled Yorkshire Area, and merely pointing out that every area will have at least 2 or 3 bands almost as busy as the 3 you are thinking of. Even the Midlands!

Bayerd
06.02.2012, 00:12
Sorry, I was replying to the original post about the 'disaster' of a cancelled Yorkshire Area, and merely pointing out that every area will have at least 2 or 3 bands almost as busy as the 3 you are thinking of. Even the Midlands!

The OP doesn't mention Yorkshire and I wasn't thinking of any bands in particular. My home brew is even better than I thought it was...

pedaller
06.02.2012, 00:41
OK so I wasn't referring to the OP, just replying to the post about the disastrous cancelling of the Yorkshire Area. However, the point still stands, every area has at least 2 or 3 bands almost as busy as the top 3 in Yorkshire. Point made, I'm now off back to my Thwaites' Lancaster Bomber !

ploughboy
06.02.2012, 14:30
Just book a local school hall, and run the sections on an evening through the following week, find a local adjudicator who'll help by coming in at short notice. Most bands planning to attend an area contest would probably have a pretty free week after the weekend.

MoominDave
06.02.2012, 14:42
But maybe not the players in the band! Plenty of people who play in bands do other kinds of gigs and rehearsals too.

ploughboy
06.02.2012, 14:45
A couple of nights a week would usually be reserved for band rehearsals anyway. I'm sure If my area had to be rescheduled to an evening a few days away I could miss a rehearsal with another group to perform/conduct. Of course on the other side, there's people who may work evenings etc etc, But I would have thought the best way to do it would be to reschedule as soon as possible. . .

Accidental
06.02.2012, 14:56
Just book a local school hall, and run the sections on an evening through the following week
Nice idea, but some sections in some areas have bands over 150 miles apart - chances are if the weather is bad enough to stop anyone getting to a planned contest, they're also going to struggle to reach a 'local' venue a few days later!

MoominDave
06.02.2012, 15:06
I still like my recording idea...

Accidental
06.02.2012, 15:11
It does seem the most practical solution Dave.... but thats possibly enough to ensure it'll never happen ;)

TheMusicMan
06.02.2012, 15:15
Jokes and funny comments aside... it is, in fact, a very very good question.

I have no idea what the mitigating or contingent action might be - but I would imagine that whatever it is ought to be cited somewhere in the rules or Terms & Conditions of entry to the competition. I wonder if it's worth a note to Philip Morris...?

The thing is - these sorts of things occasionally do happen, and of course it's all hands to the decks when they do. It's my guess that Kapitol would simply do their best to find an alternate venue and re-schedule this at short(ish) notice. Every band would receive the same period of notice for the rescheduled event, and if some bands happen to have members in the retail sector then unless they could call upon a large squad of players, I guess they'd experience a little bit of hard luck for that year.

It would certainly be good though for bands to have knowledge of what the contingent action would be in the event of a cancellation. It does surprise me that there's nothing written on this to-date.

GJG
06.02.2012, 15:51
I still like my recording idea...

- all deps on deck ... ;)

Leyfy
06.02.2012, 16:51
Nice idea, but some sections in some areas have bands over 150 miles apart - chances are if the weather is bad enough to stop anyone getting to a planned contest, they're also going to struggle to reach a 'local' venue a few days later!

Jersey Premier being a case in point!!

Dackdack
06.02.2012, 22:09
In foorball they have a "POOLS PANEL" to say who (in their opinion) would have won, perhaps a team of qualified adjudicators could do the same? But of course, no one from that area could be on the panel. Sounds like a plan to me. SORTED! :-)

You don't need a panel of adjudicators, just ask Paddy, he's got all the stats already :)