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Di
06.01.2009, 21:17
North West Regional Championships
Championship Section
Test Piece : Salute to Youth, (http://www.themouthpiece.com/vb/showthread.php?t=34837)Gilbert Vinter
Sunday 1st March
(Commence approx 2:30 following Fourth Section)
Venue : Opera House, Winter Gardens, Blackpool
Adjudicator : David Read

Participating Bands:

Bactiguard Wire Brass, Paul Andrews
Fairey, Philip Chalk
Fodens, Garry Cutt
Leyland, Jason Katsikaris
Pemberton Old Wigan JJB, Mark Bentham
Poulton-Le-Fylde, Gareth Westwood
Roberts Bakery, Colin Cranson
Timperley, TBA
United Co-op (Crewe), Jef Sparkes
United Co-op Milnrow, John Ward
Wingates, TBA.

***************************************

North West Regional Championships
First Section
Test Piece : Pentacle, Graham Cole (http://www.themouthpiece.com/vb/showthread.php?t=34838)
Sunday 1st March
(Commences : 10:30am)
Venue : Empress Ballroom, Winter Gardens, Blackpool
Adjudicator : Colin Hardy

Participating Bands:

Ashton-Under-Lyne, Martyn Evans
Blackburn & Drawen, Nick Sheppard
Blackpool Brass, Andrew Warriner
Bollington Brass, Peter Christian
Diggle, TBA
Freckleton, Paul Dalton
Haydock, Mark Quinn
Longridge, Steve Tarry
Manx Concert Brass, Ian Clague MBE
Mossley, Duncan Byers
Tyldesley, Robert Taylor
Vernon Building Society Poynton, Kevin Gibbs
Wardle Anderson Brass, Sean Conway

***************************************

North West Regional Championships
Second Section
Test Piece : New World Sketches, Daniel Price (http://www.themouthpiece.com/vb/showthread.php?t=34839)
Sunday 1st March
(Commences : Approx 3:00 pm following First Section)
Venue : Empress Ballroom, Winter Gardens, Blackpool
Adjudicator : Malcolm Brownbill

Participating Bands :

Besses o’th’Barn, Carl Whiteoak
Delph, Philip Goodwin
Eccleston Brass, Ian Bateson
Flixton, TBA
Haslingden & Helmshore, David Holland
Hoover (Bolton), Lee Dunkly
Middleton, Matt Stringer
Old Hall Brass, John North
Oldham (Lees), John Collins
Rainford, Neil Samuel
Silk Brass (Macclesfield), James Cant
United Co-op 2000 Brass, Jamie Meredith

***************************************

North West Regional Championships
Third Section
Test Piece : The Once and Future King, Andrew Baker (http://www.themouthpiece.com/vb/showthread.php?t=34840)
Sunday 1st March
(Commences : 11:00 am)
Venue : Spanish Hall, Winter Gardens, Blackpool
Adjudicator: Derek Broadbent

Participating Bands :

BMP Europe Goodshaw, Iain McKnight
Boarshurst Silver, David Ashworth
City of Chester, Philip Mottershead
Dobcross Silver, Grenville Moore
Dobcross Youth, Brian Lamb
Douglas Town, Gordon Higginbottom
Eagley, Gareth Westwood
Formby, Louise Hough
Greenall’s, Karl Stott
Hawk Green (Marple), Andy Wilson
Lostock Hall Memorial, John Wood
Morecambe. Andrew Warriner
Pemberton Old Wigan JJB “B” , Peter Ashley
Ramsey Town, Robert Quane
Skelmersdale Prize, John Ludden
Stalybridge Old, John Binns
Trinity Girls, Brian Harper
Uppermill, Alan Widdop
Valley Brass (Haydock), David Chadwick
Whitworth Vale & Healey, John Binns



***************************************



North West Regional Championships
Fourth Section
Test Piece : The Talisman for Brass Band, Frank Hughes (http://www.themouthpiece.com/vb/showthread.php?t=34841)
Sunday 1st March
(Commences : 10:00 am)
Venue : Opera House, Winter Gardens, Blackpool
Adjudicator: C. Brian Buckley

Participating Bands:

Barnton Silver, Stephen Yates
Besses Boys, James Holt
Blackley, Adrian Smith
Carrbrook Brass, Jason M. Smith
Cheshire Constabulary, David Woollam
Coppull & Standish, Andrew Baker
Darwen Brass, Steve Hartley
Denton Brass, Graham Smith
Eccles Borough, Les Webb
Farndon & District Brass, Milne Robinson
Farnworth & Walkden, Peter Ashley
Friezland,, Tom Haslam
Golborne, TBA
Greenfield. Stuart Black
Hazel Grove, Nigel Beasley
Nelson Brass, David Holland
Parr (Richardson Ltd) St. Helens, Russell Prescott
Pilling Jubilee Silver, Billy Porter
Rivington & Adlington, Malcolm Wilson
St. John’s Mossley, Stephen Corbett
Sale Brass, John Dickinson
Tarleton & District Brass, Gillian Bould

nickjones
07.01.2009, 13:50
Strange to see that the 3rd section is over in Darlo.....wouldn't wish that on anyone!!!!

Di
07.01.2009, 16:24
Strange to see that the 3rd section is over in Darlo.....wouldn't wish that on anyone!!!!

Sorry, my error again. The pitfalls of copy/paste. :-? Proves I'm human though. ;)

cookie101880
13.01.2009, 17:16
O joy. Just heard that 2nd section is in the ballroom again starting at 3.00pm!!! After 1st section.

kajoh8
14.01.2009, 18:43
Does anyone know which hall/room the Third Section will be in please.

cookie101880
16.01.2009, 11:40
Third section is in the Spanish Hall

Andy_Euph
16.01.2009, 20:25
Third section is in the Spanish Hall

Does this mean the 4th section isn't in the spanish hall...i hope so :D. Anyone have any info about which hall the 4th section is in.

kajoh8
17.01.2009, 19:53
Is that a guess or a fact !!!

kajoh8
17.01.2009, 19:55
Ps I am told that North West Area Contesting Committee have not decided/released the venues for each section yet.

holamonica
17.01.2009, 22:30
Hola, I've been looking on the internet for more info about the contest and found you guys. It happens that my son is a big fan of brass band and the 1st March it's his fourth B-day... so perhaps you've got any idea of how to get tickets, etc.... I've had a look on the Winter Gardens website but it's pretty useless.

In advance, many thanks for your help.

Monica

dlls2275
18.01.2009, 00:06
Hi Monica

You don't need to book tickets to the area on 1st March just turn up to the Winter Gardens and buy your tickets there. Hope you enjoy it.

Andy_Euph
18.01.2009, 02:34
Is that a guess or a fact !!!

I was actually asking a question...would have helped if i'd have put a question mark! :biggrin:

I actually hope the 4th section ISN'T in the Spanish Hall, as i've never played anywhere else at blackpool and the change would be nice!

holamonica
18.01.2009, 18:00
Great, THANK YOU!!!!

One more question,and sorry to bother you again: do you know of a good B&B nearby?

Xxx :)

Hells Bones
18.01.2009, 18:09
Great, THANK YOU!!!!

One more question,and sorry to bother you again: do you know of a good B&B nearby?

Xxx :)

You are joking right? It's in the middle of Blackpool... I.E. B'n'B everywhere you look!

kajoh8
18.01.2009, 22:58
Sorry Andy my question/remark was to Cookie he seems to be in the know.!!!

Bayerd
19.01.2009, 00:35
You are joking right? It's in the middle of Blackpool... I.E. B'n'B everywhere you look!

Aye, but not a decent one in sight.......

Al
19.01.2009, 11:37
I was actually asking a question...would have helped if i'd have put a question mark! :biggrin:

I actually hope the 4th section ISN'T in the Spanish Hall, as i've never played anywhere else at blackpool and the change would be nice!

Well, you can get promotion! Maybe the Opera House next year !

DobX Dave
19.01.2009, 19:12
As a retired player and now a supporter, can anyone advise when the North West committee will advise who will be playing in each section.

holamonica
19.01.2009, 20:30
Dread.

Anno Draconis
19.01.2009, 23:09
Dread.

- locks?
- nought?
- ful?

;) I would give Blackpool's central B&Bs a miss if I were you, unless you're a collector of rare fungi and moulds. Try one of the bigger hotels, or stay a bit out of town.

Hells Bones
20.01.2009, 20:50
Does anyone have any idea what time the 2nd section will start/finish?

Guesstimates? There or there abouts?

jockinafrock
20.01.2009, 21:22
Great, THANK YOU!!!!

One more question,and sorry to bother you again: do you know of a good B&B nearby?

Xxx :)

Absolutely! We go to Blackpool several times a year for dance competitions at the WinterGardens. The Manor Grove Hotel run by Lyndon and Hazel is fabulous and right at the back door. (They have a website too). Ph them on 01253 625577 and say Fiona and Debbie gave you their details. First class hosts! :D :D :D

holamonica
20.01.2009, 22:03
Anno Draconis...:biggrin:!!!

Jockinafrock, many thanks for this. I've just had a look at their website, looks ok but a bit pricey for us.

We shall gonna wake up first thing in the morning to catch a train. Afterall, we're based in Liverpool so it should be alright.

Many many thx :clap:!

Anno Draconis
27.01.2009, 12:04
http://www.4barsrest.com/news/detail.asp?id=9306

Full list of bands now up on 4BR, and PRAISE THE LORD we in the 4th section have escaped the Spanish Hall. 22 bands in our section, too!

tat
27.01.2009, 12:23
http://www.4barsrest.com/news/detail.asp?id=9306

Full list of bands now up on 4BR, and PRAISE THE LORD we in the 4th section have escaped the Spanish Hall. 22 bands in our section, too!

Yes but there will be 20 renditions of your piece in there :eek:

Anno Draconis
27.01.2009, 12:47
Yes but there will be 20 renditions of your piece in there :eek:

Damn, I hadn't considered that - looks like I'll be spending a load of time in there anyway then. :rolleyes:

Di
27.01.2009, 12:55
Opening post updated with further information, courtesy http://www.4barsrest.com/news/detail.asp?id=9306 :)

tat
27.01.2009, 12:57
Damn, I hadn't considered that - looks like I'll be spending a load of time in there anyway then. :rolleyes:

Nice and handy for the bar though :clap:

Anno Draconis
27.01.2009, 13:05
Nice and handy for the bar though :clap:

There is that, I look forward to paying through the nose for a large plastic glass of brown water ;)

Andy_Euph
27.01.2009, 13:29
http://www.4barsrest.com/news/detail.asp?id=9306

Full list of bands now up on 4BR, and PRAISE THE LORD we in the 4th section have escaped the Spanish Hall. 22 bands in our section, too!

Woohoo, glad not to be playing in that hall :), at least we'll get a stage to play on and not have people sat one row away from the band talking!

Looks a pretty even field in the 4th section, should be an interesting contest.

Hells Bones
27.01.2009, 16:42
Oh Dear

stotty74
28.01.2009, 15:09
Played in the Senior Trophy in the Spanish Hall, and didn't really like it, so not looking forward to conducting there!! Saying that though, this is my first competitive North West Areas, either playing or conducting, having done both Swansea and Bradford, so really looking forward to it.

Still enjoying the piece aswell which is a bonus:-) Going to be an interesting contest

Al
16.02.2009, 11:10
A great pity to about Yates going up on fire.

http://www.blackpoolgazette.co.uk/blackpoolnews/Blackpool-fire--picture-gallery.4982469.jp

grim8634
16.02.2009, 15:13
Is this list now confirmed, or are people still likely to be pulling out?

Columbo
17.02.2009, 13:05
Is this list now confirmed, or are people still likely to be pulling out?
It is confirmed, however bands can still pull out Graeme. I personally hope they do not and they have a go!

Andy_Euph
22.02.2009, 16:42
Scary to think that this time next week it'll be all but over and the "we woz robbed" portion of this forum will start up again for 4 weeks or so :).

Really looking forward to the contest but not sure what to expect, for the 1st time since i've played down here I don't think there is a band in the 4th section that stands miles above the rest. Looking forward to a competitive contest and hopefully a decent result.

On a side note my band are staying in blackpool for the weekend and seeing as I won't have any time off until next weekend, does anyone know of a good hairdresser or barbers near the winter gardens? Just so I don't go on stage looking like Shaggy from Scooby Do :D

Al
22.02.2009, 19:11
Really looking forward to the contest but not sure what to expect, for the 1st time since i've played down here I don't think there is a band in the 4th section that stands miles above the rest. Looking forward to a competitive contest and hopefully a decent result.


I don't think there are any bands which stand out above the rest but there is definitely a few to watch out forr:

Coppull & Standish, conducted by Andrew Baker (composer of 3rd Section Test Piece - The Once and Future King). The band are lying second in the section.

Tarleton and District, a band only started in 2000 and who are now top of the section, The band has been rising steadily since they started the Areas in 2004.

I would imagine that Hazel grove will be looking to jump back into the third section after dropping last year and coming a respectable 8th. Lying 4th just now so a good result might see them up in the third again.

There are 3 or 4 others that are looking good. So quite a 4th Section contest I would say.

Have fun!

Anno Draconis
23.02.2009, 08:57
Tarleton and District, a band only started in 2000 and who are now top of the section, The band has been rising steadily since they started the Areas in 2004.

Not to mention that they qualified for the finals last year.....

Let's not forget Blackley, who've had some superb results lately, and Eccles, winners at Butlins. Stuart Black's Greenfield are always good value and I've heard good things about Cheshire Constabulary's preparation as well.

This year's 4th section contest is going to be the most open for years...... :D

Really looking forward to it!

Eb_Alex
23.02.2009, 09:25
does anyone know of a good hairdresser or barbers near the winter gardens? Just so I don't go on stage looking like Shaggy from Scooby Do :D

Did nobody tell you Griff, Scooby Doo is this years theme! :D

Columbo
23.02.2009, 09:45
Anyone know where I can find the Fourth Section current rankings please?

Al
23.02.2009, 12:56
Attached is an unoffical rankings for the 4th Section.

The points are taken from the previous two years and so this year's placings will determine the final position.

Bands that did not compete the previous year or years receive points as if they were last placed. Bands relegated take the average points for the previous year. I think this is the correct method for allocating points?.

Columbo
23.02.2009, 13:22
Cheers Al!

Anno Draconis
23.02.2009, 22:33
4BR predictions are now available, if anyone's interested; although you have to go to the articles part of the site, there's no link from the homepage yet.

Jan H
23.02.2009, 23:48
Scary to think that this time next week it'll be all but over and the "we woz robbed" portion of this forum will start up again for 4 weeks or so :).
I'm already looking forward to it... NOT :frown:

Anyway: good luck to everyone who's up for it next weekend!

ashwortdn
24.02.2009, 01:26
Good look at the weekend for my friends at whitworth and boarshurst,hope you qualify

and good luck too all.

sopranoplayer
24.02.2009, 11:24
4BR predictions are now available, if anyone's interested; although you have to go to the articles part of the site, there's no link from the homepage yet.


Here's an interesting little section of 4brs write up on one of the bands in the 4th section! :confused:

""Great to see Darwen Brass back again, although they didn’t decide this year to have a run out at Tameside as they did last year ""

Given that Tameside contest hasn't actually happened yet :rolleyes:

The Wizard
24.02.2009, 12:08
Phew --- Glad you cleared that up. Thought you had been without me !!!!

sopranoplayer
24.02.2009, 12:55
Phew --- Glad you cleared that up. Thought you had been without me !!!!

I was thinking the same !!! :tongue:

Columbo
24.02.2009, 13:30
Can I just wish Ashton Band all the very best for the area. Great Set of players with a fantastic attitude and camaraderie. I love the quiet arrogance (Playing wise I mean) and boldness that they possess. I like players with guts, with the willingness to have a go and not hide away. Knowing some of the personalities there, they definitely have IT. Good luck guys. See you there!

P.s Dep for you anytime.

Al
25.02.2009, 11:19
Here are unofficial rankings for the other sections North West Area.
Championship, First and Second Seconds. Third in a separate document.

They are unofficial but should give a good idea of where the bands are standing up to next Sunday!

budstellabecks
25.02.2009, 13:38
North West Regional Championships
Fourth Section
Test Piece : The Talisman for Brass Band, Frank Hughes (http://www.themouthpiece.com/vb/showthread.php?t=34841)
Sunday 1st March
(Commences : 10:00 am)
Venue : Opera House, Winter Gardens, Blackpool
Adjudicator: C. Brian Buckley



Is 10am the correct start time then?

4BR has 11am as the start time on their preview page.

Anno Draconis
25.02.2009, 13:50
AFAIK 10am is the correct time; draw for bands in the first half is at 9ish I think?

Hells Bones
25.02.2009, 17:16
If people are going to the NW Area, will they hesitate to come say hello to other tMP members?

Columbo
25.02.2009, 17:19
Don't see why they should. Lookin' forward to ist meself!

Hells Bones
25.02.2009, 17:24
Everyone should wear badges!
Though I probably don't need to, I'm fairly recognisable.

Roger Thorne
25.02.2009, 20:25
however bands can still pull out Graeme. I personally hope they do not and they have a go!

4BR have announced three W/D's from Sundays line up.


4BR has also been informed that the Diggle Band in the First Section and the St John's Mossley Band and Barnton in the Fourth have withdrawn.

:(

themusicalrentboy
25.02.2009, 20:37
I'm fairly recognisable.

take something to ward off the evil spirits if you actually attempt to look at Mr Bones :tup

Hells Bones
26.02.2009, 00:46
take something to ward off the evil spirits if you actually attempt to look at Mr Bones :tup

Speak for yourself, Mr Moyles.

Andy_Euph
27.02.2009, 13:05
The old saying goes that bad luck comes in threes, i'm having to miss the last night of rehearsal tonight and a night in blackpool because my boss decided to change my shift. Then I go to band last night and break my euphonium :(...anyone feel like tripping me up or something before I go on stage sunday to get the third thing out of the way :D

Just want to say good luck to friends competing this weekend and I'm looking forward to never playing the Talisman again :D

Roll on sunday!

sparkling_quavers
27.02.2009, 15:21
Best of luck to Flixton in the 2nd section. Sorry I wasn't be there to cheer you all on :biggrin:

Eb_Alex
27.02.2009, 15:48
Good luck to everyone participating this weekend!

Looking forward to it now, only 1 rehearsal left then straight off to Blackpool tonight :D

Hope to see you all there

mikelyons
28.02.2009, 20:25
All my best wishes to alan sundrie for tomorrow. If you see me, I have a blank look because of my medication, not because I'm ****ed or angry :) If you say hello and introduce yourselves I'll probably roll over and wee myself from pure joy - it's such a rarety. The last people to do that were Di and Vickitorious. I never bite a friend, and I might even treat you to a pint or a glass of wine, or whatever. :clap:

Anno Draconis
28.02.2009, 22:51
Best of luck to everyone tomorrow, especially my lot :clap:, Middleton, Blackley, and all the bands playing The Once and Future King - I'll be in for a listen at some point depending on our draw in the 4th section.

GC.
28.02.2009, 23:58
Good luck to all the bands at Blackpool tomorrow from me too. Especially all the 1st section bands playing Pentacle - I'm hoping to hear you all.

andyp
01.03.2009, 10:24
Good luck to everyone - unfortunately the weather is cold (7C), wet, and cloudy (at least it is at home and as the crow flies its only 7 or 8 miles to Blackpool).

Still, at least it's not snowing.................

andyp
01.03.2009, 11:49
......and having posted that, the sky has cleared and the sun is out........!!!


Hope I play better than I predict the weather............

Hells Bones
01.03.2009, 12:19
We're getting ready for our hoe down in the ball room.

ian perks
01.03.2009, 15:08
Have you checked out the 1st section draw bands drawn 9,10,11&12 ;
The 4 favorites !!!!!!!

themusicalrentboy
01.03.2009, 16:01
Well done Wardle and Blackburn & Darwen!!!

brassneck
01.03.2009, 16:02
First Section:

Empress Ballroom
Draw: 9.30am
Commence: 10.30am
Adjudicator: Colin Hardy

Results

1. Wardle Anderson Brass (Sean Conway), 5
2. Blackburn & Drawen (Nick Sheppard), 12
3. Ashton-Under-Lyne (Martyn Evans), 11
4. Manx Concert Brass (Ian Clague MBE), 3
5. Longridge (Steve Tarry), 8
6. Bollington Brass (Peter Christian), 4
7. Vernon Building Society Poynton (Kevin Gibbs), 9
8. Tyldesley (Robert Taylor), 6
9. Freckleton ( Paul Dalton), 10
10. Mossley (Duncan Byers), 7
11. Haydock (Mark Quinn), 1
12. Blackpool Brass (Andrew Warriner), 2

withdrawn, Diggle (Les Beevers)

Top 2 bands qualify for Harrogate

http://www.4barsrest.com/news/detail.asp?id=9504

ian perks
01.03.2009, 16:15
First Section:

Empress Ballroom
Draw: 9.30am
Commence: 10.30am
Adjudicator: Colin Hardy

Results

1. Wardle Anderson Brass (Sean Conway), 5
2. Blackburn & Drawen (Nick Sheppard), 12
3. Ashton-Under-Lyne (Martyn Evans), 11
4. Manx Concert Brass (Ian Clague MBE), 3
5. Longridge (Steve Tarry), 8
6. Bollington Brass (Peter Christian), 4
7. Vernon Building Society Poynton (Kevin Gibbs), 9
8. Tyldesley (Robert Taylor), 6
9. Freckleton ( Paul Dalton), 10
10. Mossley (Duncan Byers), 7
11. Haydock (Mark Quinn), 1
12. Blackpool Brass (Andrew Warriner), 2

withdrawn, Diggle (Les Beevers)

Top 2 bands qualify for Harrogate

http://www.4barsrest.com/news/detail.asp?id=9504
Intresting results would like to see what is said about these

brassneck
01.03.2009, 16:39
Fourth Section:

Opera House
Split Draw: 9.00am & 11.00am
Commence: 10.00am
Adjudicator: C. Brian Buckley

Results

1. Eccles Borough (Les Webb), 18
2. Cheshire Constabulary (David Woollam), 7
3. Rivington & Adlington (Malcolm Wilson), 12
4. Pilling Jubilee Silver (Billy Porter), 17
5. Greenfield (Stuart Black), 13
6. Coppull & Standish (Andrew Baker), 9

(full results still to be posted on 4BR)

davidquinlan
01.03.2009, 16:54
Congratulations to Manx Concert Brass on their Debut 4th place in the first section..

Good stuff yissirs.... :)

AndyCat
01.03.2009, 17:07
Will be interesting to see what's made of the 1st section results. I can't believe the remarks in my hand. They refer to things that didn't happen in our performance.
The band is gutted after what we thought was a very good performance.
Questionable use of percussion players as well. The sheet that came to us clearly states 3 players, but at least one band used 4.
Anyway, nearly down to the 2nd section. But in the Grand Shield!

No wonder banding loses so many players.

brassneck
01.03.2009, 18:40
Updated results courtesy of 4BR ...

Third Section:

Spanish Hall
Split Draw: 10.00am & 12.30pm
Commence: 11.00am
Adjudicator: Derek Broadbent

Bands

1. Dobcross Silver (Grenville Moore), 9
2. Douglas Town (Gordon Higginbottom), 5
3. Lostock Hall Memorial (John Wood), 19
4. Uppermill (Alan Widdop), 18
5. Morecambe (Andrew Warriner), 19
6. Skelmersdale Prize (John Ludden), 1

Full results as soon as we get them.

Top 3 bands qualify for Harrogate

BMP Europe Goodshaw (Iain McKnight), 6
Boarshurst Silver (David Ashworth), 17
City of Chester (Philip Mottershead), 4
Dobcross Youth (Brian Lamb), 12
Eagley (Gareth Westwood), 11
Formby (Louise Hough), 13
Greenall’s (Karl Stott), 3
Hawk Green (Marple) (Andy Wilson), 2
Pemberton Old Wigan JJB 'B' (Peter Ashley), 10
Ramsey Town (Robert Quane), 8
Stalybridge Old (John Binns), 20
Trinity Girls (Brian Harper), 7
Valley Brass (Haydock) (David Chadwick), 14
Whitworth Vale & Healey (John Binns), 15

Fourth Section:

Opera House
Split Draw: 9.00am & 11.00am
Commence: 10.00am
Adjudicator: C. Brian Buckley

Results

1. Eccles Borough (Les Webb), 18
2. Cheshire Constabulary (David Woollam), 7
3. Rivington & Adlington (Malcolm Wilson), 12
4. Pilling Jubilee Silver (Billy Porter), 17
5. Greenfield (Stuart Black), 13
6. Coppull & Standish (Andrew Baker), 9
7. Nelson Brass (David Holland), 10
8. Darwen Brass (Steve Hartley), 5
9. Tarleton & District Brass (Gillian Bould), 11
10. Farnworth & Walkden (Peter Ashley), 3
11. Besses Boys (James Holt), 1
12. Blackley (Adrian Smith), 16
13. Carrbrook Brass (Jason M. Smith), 19
14. Sale Brass (John Dickinson), 14
15. Golborne (David Houghton), 15
16. Denton Brass (Graham Smith), 8
17. Parr (Richardson Ltd) St. Helens (Russell Prescott), 4
18. Friezland (Tom Haslam), 6
19. Hazel Grove (Nigel Beasley), 2

St. John’s Mossley (Stephen Corbett), w
Farndon & District Brass (Milne Robinson), w
Barnton Silver (S Yates), w

Top 3 bands qualify for Harrogate

The-Wee-Timpanist
01.03.2009, 19:22
I'm quite interested to hear any 2nd section remarks from today...

ju33les
01.03.2009, 19:26
Congratulations to all at Eccles Borough! :clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

sparkling_quavers
01.03.2009, 20:28
yeyyyyyyyyyyy well done Flixton :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

2nd section results were:

1. Oldham Lees
2. Silk Brass
3. Flixton

Stix
01.03.2009, 20:46
Will be interesting to see what's made of the 1st section results. I can't believe the remarks in my hand. They refer to things that didn't happen in our performance.

The band is gutted after what we thought was a very good performance.
Questionable use of percussion players as well. The sheet that came to us clearly states 3 players, but at least one band used 4.
Anyway, nearly down to the 2nd section. But in the Grand Shield!

No wonder banding loses so many players.

Totally agree here. From what i hear yours was by far the best performance of the day. When they announced second, we knew we hadnt come in top 6, but thought u had won. wierd wierd wierd result. We to (VBS Poynton) are gutted with our placing :(

We also noticed that nearly all the other bands had 4, whereas we had 3 of us on Perc. Our remarks are short and repeat the same thing.. not balanced. thats it.

Ahhh well.. another year over................

AndyCat
01.03.2009, 21:07
Totally agree here. From what i hear yours was by far the best performance of the day. When they announced second, we knew we hadnt come in top 6, but thought u had won. wierd wierd wierd result. We to (VBS Poynton) are gutted with our placing :(

We also noticed that nearly all the other bands had 4, whereas we had 3 of us on Perc. Our remarks are short and repeat the same thing.. not balanced. thats it.

Ahhh well.. another year over................

Yes, ours said unbalanced and tempos slower than marked, but we know they weren't! General feeling from those who listened is we were up there even if not winners. But that's banding, as bad as it sometimes is!

Thanks to those who have already sent messages via here and Facebook (I came home to several emails, fb messages and pm's already!), one thing seems to be common amongst them all, and that is issue with Colin Hardy!

nacnud101
01.03.2009, 21:17
I have to agree also about the results in first section. Our remarks (Mossley Band) state exactly the same re balance which was not the case. He has nothing else to say. We left the stage knowing that we had just played our best performance. I'm not saying it was a winning performance but 10th. We played every tempo as marked, did everything the score said and played well. What more do we have to do, just to get a decent result!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

P.S. This is not just sour grapes. I wish all the best of luck to those bands that qualified today.

Anno Draconis
01.03.2009, 21:24
Congratulations to Eccles, Cheshire Constabulary (especially my old mate Rachel!) and our local rivals Rivi - I'm sure you'll keep up the successful tradition of recent years for NW bands at Harrogate!

Also well done to Dobcross - heard your performance and I thought you were spot on.:clap:

Quick question: I heard a post-contest rumour that Besses Boys result was changed from 13th to 11th in the immediate aftermath - anyone know if this is true? Doesn't affect my band, I just wonder how/why something like that might happen?

Stix
01.03.2009, 21:58
Congratulations to Eccles, Cheshire Constabulary (especially my old mate Rachel!) and our local rivals Rivi - I'm sure you'll keep up the successful tradition of recent years for NW bands at Harrogate!

Also well done to Dobcross - heard your performance and I thought you were spot on.:clap:

Quick question: I heard a post-contest rumour that Besses Boys result was changed from 13th to 11th in the immediate aftermath - anyone know if this is true? Doesn't affect my band, I just wonder how/why something like that might happen?


That is totally true. Peter Bates told them straight after contest. They were 11th, not 13th. Not sure how they got that wrong tho! lol

DublinBass
01.03.2009, 22:23
Good to see Fairey's back near the top.

Did anybody hear Leyland? Their result comes as a bit of a surprise.

hornydevil
01.03.2009, 23:21
Congratulations to Blackburn & Darwen and thanks to all the voters on here who predicted us to win! Only heard one band so can't comment on the results but we were well chuffed with our performance! Harrogate here we come! :) again!

Butlins 2009 First Section Champions
Scottish Open Quartet Champions
N.W Area First Section Qualifiers

Well done Mr Shep! x

jockinafrock
01.03.2009, 23:27
CONGRATULATIONS FODENS! A well deserved win! :clap:

Also to my mates at United Co-op Crewe - well pleased with our 7th placing! :clap:

notsosilentbob
01.03.2009, 23:49
Congratulation to Oldham Band (Lees). 5 regional wins in a row!!!! Mega-congrats to JC and the gang :clap::biggrin::clap:

Scottw
01.03.2009, 23:50
As the principle cornet with Mossley, I was gutted with the result today.....was surprised us and Freckleton didn't make it to the top 6.

budstellabecks
01.03.2009, 23:57
Congratulations to all at Eccles Borough! :clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:
Cheers Julie. We're more than made up as I'm sure you'd imagine.

Yam681B
02.03.2009, 00:21
Just returned to North of the border after listening to 1st and Championship sections in North West. Got to say Freckleton I didn't enjoy your performance of Pentacle and have heard the band much better, I am suprised at low placing of VBS though, thought they would finish much higher.
Worst placing of the day for me has to be Leylands 8th I can imagine the players must be gutted after giving what I thought was an outstanding performance ...commiserations guys

PurpleHaze
02.03.2009, 00:28
Had quite a good day, trying not to be too dissapointed as the band feel we played the best that we could have-minus a few slip-up's purely due to nerves. To come within the top six out of twenty bands is not something to be dissapointed with, especially as there are a lot of great bands out there! Congrats to those who qualified, i'm sure you'll do a fine job of representing the North West at Harrogate!

Masterblaster jnr
02.03.2009, 00:28
BIG congratulations to my teacher Mark Bentham and Pemberton. It's a fantastic result, and hopefully it's a sign of things to come in the next year or so

Bass Man
02.03.2009, 00:56
I have to say I'm shocked by Leylands result. OK, I wasn't there and therefore cant have an opinion on the placings, but I still find it really low down. Did they play well and get marked poorly for interpretation?

Crazysop
02.03.2009, 00:57
Well done to all the prize winners!!!! Go Eccles, Douglas Town, Dobcross, & Oldham! Hope you guys do some serious damage at the finals and bring those pots back to the North West!

madandcrazytromboneguy
02.03.2009, 01:35
a few years ago i took a year out from fulltime banding to concentrate on my course and i spent the 1st half of the year helping out eccles and the 2nd half helping out lostock hall so im absolutely delighted to see you 2 bands getting great results!

Les what youve done with eccles is excellent and i hope your success continues and although i havnt met lostocks new MD well done to you too, you inherited a band with great potential and i hope your success continues aswell!

massive congrats to eccles and lostock hall, hope you both come 2nd behind huddersfield and ripponden band in the 4th section and whoever qualifies for the 3rd section final from yorkshire! :biggrin:

Welsheuphoniummanjamie
02.03.2009, 02:03
Well done Blackburn & Darwen! Fantastic result! Well Done Nick! See you soon!

superjobby
02.03.2009, 02:06
Les what youve done with eccles is excellent and i hope your success continues and although i havnt met lostocks new MD well done to you too, you inherited a band with great potential and i hope your success continues aswell!


Completely agree. We got the result we were after today, and Les and our wonderful secretary Val got a cup each, which they richly deserve. :clap:

Nice to leave on a high, can't believe that I won't get to play at the nationals! Ah well, I'll be there as a supporter, already looking for a nice cheap hotel deal!! :rolleyes:

Congrats to everyone in the band, you thoroughly deserve it for all your hard work. Thank you for my tankard as well, pride of place on my mantelpiece! :tup

madsaz
02.03.2009, 06:30
As a band that has been on the recieving end of what many have thought to be poor adjudication in the past, I decided this year I would expect nothing and as a result would not be dissapointed.

I am told that Freckleton played really well, one of our supporters rated them very highly. I only managed to hear 1 band (Mossley) and found the interpretation so different from ours that it was hard to like it.

Pentacle is a new piece and a hell of a challenge. I think by the time you have rehearsed it in the style of your own conductor it is hard to hear a different interpretation and like it. I also thinknearly all the detail was lost in the ballroom - its a nightmare every year, but trying to put the nuance in there was near impossible.

Lets face it, isn't there a sense of lottery every year?

Sorry to those guys who are gutted with their results. I haven't seen our comments - but we didn't do too badly and I reckon he may have said things about balance for everyone. Obviously everyone wants to win. At least I don't have to get up at 5.30am next year (unless they change the times...... grrr)

McChambo
02.03.2009, 09:23
Congrats to John Collins and Oldham (Lees). A very impressive performance, especially from the young lad on soprano who was spot on throughout. Other highlights for me included the solo euph and trombone from United Co-op 2000, and also the overall performance from Rainford. I had them up there with Oldham as potential winners!

jockinafrock
02.03.2009, 09:57
I suppose that often we think that just because a band didn't play a piece the way we did that it must be incorrect... A few different interpretations of 'Salute to Youth' yesterday, but MDs are perhaps just using a bit of artistic licence (albeit within reason I apreciate).

David read was rather scathing with hardly any reason to be encouraged by his comments. I must admit that, listening to him, we wanted to slit our wrists... :eek:
Still happy about our placing tho'... :D

brassbandmaestro
02.03.2009, 10:01
Good win for Fodens, although they qualify anyway for London. Also to Faireys. Its good to see Pemberton making it as well. Aslo congratulations to Dobcross. Great to see a famous name coming back after a gap of nine years.

Comisserations to evryone else, especially to Besses.

Eb master
02.03.2009, 10:12
Did anyone see my band (haslingden and helmshore) play on sunday? In disbelief at our result (11th). Were we that bad?

08cbinns
02.03.2009, 11:32
Congratulations to Milnrow Band, great result coming 6th! And well done to all the prize winning bands!

tpcornet12
02.03.2009, 11:49
Really pleased with our 6th placing. I agree with the comments about getting detail out in the ballroom - alot of the effects were lost and became a little underwelming! I was surprised by some of the results as I heard that Freckton were excellent. I listened to VBS and thought they would come much higher too. I wasn't surprised that Blackburn and Darwen qualified though as I really enjoyed their performance, however, I'm not sure why your front row needed to play all of the begining - I would have thought a band like yours should have been able to manage their own parts.

A comment about the percussion... we had 4 and I'm not sure what the rules state. I do know that before we went on stage we were counted by the stewards so don't imagine any rules were broken. We would have preferred to go with 3 established percussionists, instead 2 were musicians brought in playing percussion for the 1st time and helped us out of a sticky situation.

AndyCat
02.03.2009, 12:01
A comment about the percussion... we had 4 and I'm not sure what the rules state. I do know that before we went on stage we were counted by the stewards so don't imagine any rules were broken. We would have preferred to go with 3 established percussionists, instead 2 were musicians brought in playing percussion for the 1st time and helped us out of a sticky situation.

The sheet issued with the percussion provided list by the organisers stated 3 players. No doubt that's in conflict with their own rules, but we took it to mean you could only use 3 players.

I'd like to know if that was correct or not, but without "reporting" anyone, but I don't think it's possible without potentially dobbing the bands in who did use 4! So I'll probably just have to keep quiet.

My gripe is with the organisers, not the bands!

Columbo
02.03.2009, 12:14
[/quote]Quick question: I heard a post-contest rumour that Besses Boys result was changed from 13th to 11th in the immediate aftermath - anyone know if this is true? Doesn't affect my band, I just wonder how/why something like that might happen?[/quote]

Its not a rumour, apparently it did happen. I'd like an explanation to that one, as we came 13th with a gutsy performance. Don't get me wrong we were happy with that, being a new band and all that and considering we followed the winners on for the second contest in a row! That said, 2 places or so can make a big difference to a band's confidence. Well done to all winners. Les, thanks for your best wishes and go and win it now at Harrogate!

Mrs Horn
02.03.2009, 12:20
Did anyone see my band (haslingden and helmshore) play on sunday? In disbelief at our result (11th). Were we that bad?

I listened to Hazzy yesterday :) Didn't hear any other bands in that section. I thought your performance was excellent and I too am in disbelief at 11th place.

It's a fabulous piece and and I was well impressed with top cornet and euph - by eck, they can swing :clap:

I can't believe your result either :eek:

madsaz
02.03.2009, 12:26
with regard to the percussion - I think Graham Cole wrote 3 parts, but the rules have always stated "25 brass players and as many percussionists as the band requires". No restriction on the number within the rules, though if the area sent out the blurb that is on the Kapitol website I can see how one would have thought it was 3 players.

Even 4 players struggled to fit it all in - well for us one was a euph player and the other a pianist. How can brass bands attract really decent percussionists? I think 3 x Evelyn Glennie would have struggled with that one!

I don't think the percussion was the key to placings though - I heard some pretty spirited percussion attempts.

damarocto
02.03.2009, 12:30
I thought that david Reads speach and explination of what was written was excellent and the best adjudicators stage comments I have heard. Personally its the best result for us at pem since winning the 1st section nationals in 2004. We had some great times with Mark Peacock who was fantastic but when he left we were lucky enough to secure the services of Mark Bentham who without doubt is the most hard working and thorough conductor that I have played under and deserves all the success he gets. For someone who has been a member of the band since the 1970's [with a break of 15 years] I'm on cloud 9 and cant wait for the finals. Also the rest of the band who all work incredibly hard and very few miss any rehersals and are a great bunch

AndyCat
02.03.2009, 12:36
with regard to the percussion - I think Graham Cole wrote 3 parts, but the rules have always stated "25 brass players and as many percussionists as the band requires". No restriction on the number within the rules, though if the area sent out the blurb that is on the Kapitol website I can see how one would have thought it was 3 players.

to placings though - I heard some pretty spirited percussion attempts.

No this was a shett with what was provided on Sunday by Ray Payne, perticular to our section at the area, that states 3 players.

madsaz
02.03.2009, 12:42
I haven't seen the sheet, but I did read the rules. Presumably you didn't drop a percussionist off at the last minute due to this?? If you did you have grounds for complaint.

AndyCat
02.03.2009, 12:49
I haven't seen the sheet, but I did read the rules. Presumably you didn't drop a percussionist off at the last minute due to this?? If you did you have grounds for complaint.

No, we used 3 all along. Bad enough finding 3, let alone 4!!

Pointless complaining anyway, never makes a difference!

madsaz
02.03.2009, 12:50
Our band manager really enjoyed your performance. Not that that means a thing right now, but I know this time of year the Areas can really hurt!

Steve
02.03.2009, 12:50
Yesterday was my first NW area contest. I did like Fodens, Faireys and Leyland getting drawn together. It was a good power hour in the bar once the masses had gone to listen.

Bar etiquette seemed a little less organised than Yorkshire though, i frequently found myself walking in the opposite direction to where I needed to be just because that is the direction the 1 moving line of people were headed. Needs improvement.

The 'bouncers' on the door seemed a little excessive also, my do you need a yellow ticket just to enter the building? As a very drunk chain smoker this was causing me great distress and also needs improvement.

Still, thoroughly enjoyed myself and no arrests. Great result!!

Well done prize winners and well done Rainford, one hell of a band regardless of what placing we got.

x..Emma..x
02.03.2009, 13:06
Yesterday was my first area contest, just wondering if anyone had listened to Parr band? We were drawn 4th in the 4th section.
We were placed 17th out of 19, and yes, its a cliche on here... but i think we deserved better.
We didn't put on our best performance, we had played the piece MUCH better at preston contest a few weeks ago, but still... thats the way banding goes (:
Looking forward to tameside, although only having til the end of the month to perfect a new testpiece is going to be a pain!

anna
02.03.2009, 13:16
Well done our lot at oldham 5 in a row area wins! New record :) :clap: especially our soloists and percussion! Bring on the nationals! :)

Anno Draconis
02.03.2009, 13:33
And, if the maths is right, promotion to the 1st section in 2010? Which would be 4th to 1st in 5 years, I think?

An astonishing achievement :clap:

Andy_Euph
02.03.2009, 14:20
I had a fun weekend in blackpool and was quite happy with how my band played but was a little disappointed with the result (who is unless you win!). From what I could hear in the performance I was confident of a top half finish but it obviously didn't find favour in the box.

Regarding the mix up/changing of results in the 4th section, doesn't this raise a huge concern over the credibility of the full result? If its that easy to change a result who knows how many times it happens!

Anyway congrats to Eccles, hope you go and get the business done in Harrogate Les!

BrotherBone
02.03.2009, 15:09
mis-post..

3rdcornetsolo
02.03.2009, 15:25
Good to see Fairey's back near the top.

Did anybody hear Leyland? Their result comes as a bit of a surprise.

I heard Leyland (as did the full geek hour of Fairey, Fodens, Leyland and er Timperley) and have to say I was shocked to hear they had finished 8th... in fact i thought their performance was marginally better than both Fodens and Fairey!

They (Leyland) played a tight performance, together and the corner seats played their solos well... with particular mention going to the sop and solo cornet!

Congratulations to the Fodens and Faireys and to Pemberton in particular for a great result.

Ali
02.03.2009, 16:22
I heard Leyland (as did the full geek hour of Fairey, Fodens, Leyland and er Timperley) and have to say I was shocked to hear they had finished 8th... in fact i thought their performance was marginally better than both Fodens and Fairey!

They (Leyland) played a tight performance, together and the corner seats played their solos well... with particular mention going to the sop and solo cornet!

Congratulations to the Fodens and Faireys and to Pemberton in particular for a great result.

Firstly let me congratulate Fodens and the other 2 bands that qualified for London.

I heard Fairey, Fodens and Leyland. My thoughts are these:
Fairey played extremely well. I thought they were tight and very musical. I also thought Nick Walkley was superb on sop and Laura Hirst (PC) played a blinder! They defiantly "put on down" and was worth a qualifying place.

Fodens were nigh on impeccable. A super reading from Garry Cutt that was very refined. I have to say that having played with the band in the past and knowing what sort of sounds the band can create, I was quite disappointed in respect to their quite raved about sound. I was expecting more after reading about their sound that "no one else can match at present" (quoted from 4BR) and I even asked a couple of the lads of they had toned it down. Thats not to say that I didn't enjoy the performance, because I did. It was very classy. In the end as the results show, they were worthy winners.

Leyland was another kettle of fish. I though that the first 2 movements were awesome. I loved Jason's interpretation (I'm not trying to biased about this) and I thought that the sound they created was absolutely massive. In fact, they sounded twice the size of Fodens and was controlled through out. Harmen VanHoorne (PC) and Matt Balsom (Sop) deserve special praise for their contributions. To say that I was devastated to have missed out on performing on the stage with them was an understatement. I thought (and hoped) that we were going to come back to Leyland as North West champions.

Come the end of the day, the word was from most of the people I had heard talking was that it was going to be won by Leyland, then Fodens with Fairey in third (although I did state that I wouldn't liked to have been David Reed in choosing between Leyland and Fodens, and if Fodens had come 1st to Leyland, then there wouldn't have been much room for complaint. It really was that tight!). How then was it that Leyland came 8th was a complete mystery to me and I suspect, everyone that heard them (except Mr Reed of course). Contesting can be a very cruel sport.

Once again, congratulations to Fodens, Fairey and Pemberton. I would also like to congratulate Wardle, Oldham and Dobcross for their results too. Well done to you all!

Posh
02.03.2009, 17:11
Did anyone see my band (haslingden and helmshore) play on sunday? In disbelief at our result (11th). Were we that bad?I don't think we were that bad, it's karma for qualifying last year off a terrible performance! ;)

Congratulations to Blackburn & Darwen for qualifying and being promoted to the Championship Section! And well done to our MD and everyone at Nelson Brass for an excellent result in the Fourth Section - 7th out of 19 (just out of the glass trophys!). You've all worked really hard and deserved it. :clap:

andyp
02.03.2009, 17:56
Did anyone see my band (haslingden and helmshore) play on sunday? In disbelief at our result (11th). Were we that bad?

You're not alone in that feeling.......

I blame 4br's dodgy predictions!!! :roll:

mictop
02.03.2009, 18:07
Did anybody hear Hazel Grove Band play it seems strange that 4 bars rest (Twitter) had them out in front at the half way stage but they came last!!!

BASEMANIAN
02.03.2009, 18:15
Kapitol rule 8 states a maximum 25 brass plus percussionists ,as required by the band.
Your contest secretary is then sent a percussion list detailing what is provided and how many percussionists are allowed to play

Ian Hodgson
contest secretary

BIG Paul
02.03.2009, 18:39
Mike I saw HG and had them in the first three, alongside Eccles and Cheshire constab, however I had denton in the top 10 but we came 16th, but what do I know I don't even play

malrep
02.03.2009, 19:01
Thank-you, we did think we had played better than result suggests, but thats just one opinion. Soloists were superb - great job guys.
Well done to winners Oldham

DobX Dave
02.03.2009, 19:04
Well done our lot at oldham 5 in a row area wins! New record especially our soloists and percussion! Bring on the nationals!


And, if the maths is right, promotion to the 1st section in 2010? Which would be 4th to 1st in 5 years, I think?

An astonishing achievement :clap:

… and with such a young band, although as I have stated in previous posts, there is the occasional chair filled by more mature players, I refer mainly to the Basses and Bass Trombone.

The cornet section appeared to be under 17 with the odd exception.

Rumour has it that they had a very intensive rehearsal schedule, which proves the point that ‘hard graft does pay off’.

The principal chairs appear to be occupied by very young personnel, especially the euphonium player, who in my opinion, of the nine bands I heard was far the ‘best on the day’.

As Malcolm Brownbill stated, there were two outstanding performances on the day, I only missed three bands and I had Oldham the clear winners and agreed also with the second and third placings.

The interpretation and detail achieved (especially to dynamics) by John Collins (Oldhams MD) was justly rewarded by the adjudicator.

I, like many non-attached spectators/retired players look forward Harrogate to see if they can improve further.

Congratulations must also go to Dobcross Band, who as previously stated, have struggled recently, a great deal of hard work must have gone in to obtain players, because on their website, they are still showing a few ‘vacant’ chairs.

themusicalrentboy
02.03.2009, 19:23
Rumour has it that they had a very intensive rehearsal schedule, which proves the point that ‘hard graft does pay off’.



that's one way of putting it.

horn1
02.03.2009, 19:37
that's one way of putting it.


Nothing unusual in that, they always work very hard up to a contest

anna
02.03.2009, 19:48
we do work very hard our rehearsal schedual isnt that intense we have mon wed every week then one sectional per section, two weeks before a contest we gave 1 or 2 extra rehearsals and the week before we have every nite with one nite off, it also helps that every rehearsal we have a full band with no empty seats. our hard work pays off so nobody minds putting in the extra hours as we have proved it pays off :) thanks dobxdave for ur praise and encouragement for harrogate hopefully we will go and do the buisness!!!

Errol
02.03.2009, 20:02
Did anybody hear Hazel Grove Band play it seems strange that 4 bars rest (Twitter) had them out in front at the half way stage but they came last!!!

I can't believe Hazel Grove came last! :eek: I heard at least 5 bands who (IMHO) were much worse

tpcornet12
02.03.2009, 20:09
I can't believe Hazel Grove came last! :eek: I heard at least 5 bands who (IMHO) were much worse

I think that may have come across better if you had said Hazel Grove were better than at least 5 bands ;)

hornydevil
02.03.2009, 22:24
I can't believe Hazel Grove came last! :eek: I heard at least 5 bands who (IMHO) were much worse

Must admit they were the best and I heard out of 4! Quiet movement really well played :clap:

Beesa
03.03.2009, 10:58
I spent a lot of time in the Spanish Hall. The Once and Future King - an interesting test piece which I would say very much tested both technicality and musicality.

One band who I understand were very much one of the favourites to win and be promoted must have had a late draw and I noticed a few of them sat there on the front row whispering and sometimes not whispering their critical comments to each other during other bands' performances.

I'm not so sure that it is a good practice or not to watch bands before you have played. It is certainly poor etiquette to plonk down at the front (especially in the Spanish Hall . . ) to pass comments at every single possible error, nuance or different interpretation of the music that you can spot.

Accordingly, I wasn't at all surprised to find that those particular bands people, against their obvious and clear expectations, ended up way, way down the section come results time.

JB40
03.03.2009, 11:04
Did anyone see my band (haslingden and helmshore) play on sunday? In disbelief at our result (11th). Were we that bad?


Sorry cant say I did hear you but I know people who did hear you and said you where brill!!!!! Just reading some of the comments and there's a lot of surprised people with these results :confused::confused::confused:

Errol
03.03.2009, 12:10
I think that may have come across better if you had said Hazel Grove were better than at least 5 bands ;)

Sorry guys , thats what I meant! I thought your performance was quite good and certainly deserved a higher placing. :)

ballyhorn
03.03.2009, 12:48
I listened to Hazzy yesterday :) Didn't hear any other bands in that section. I thought your performance was excellent and I too am in disbelief at 11th place.

It's a fabulous piece and and I was well impressed with top cornet and euph - by eck, they can swing :clap:

I can't believe your result either :eek:


Come on,did you really think before posting that?????????.........You are in disbelief at their eleventh placing even though you didn't hear any other bands in the section.....I must admit I only heard Poulton-le-Fylde in the top section and I had them clear winners!!!!!!!....When will justice ever be served at our contests?

Euphodave112233
03.03.2009, 13:48
i am astounded by the championship section result. i always said i would never sign up to tmp to gossip about band contests but that must be the most ridiculous adjudication a have seen in a long time. i heard 9 out of the 11 bands and fodens and leyland were miles in front of all the others. i have no idea how he managed to separate them by 7 places. the north west area should be embarassed at this decision that one of our great bands is not going to be competing at the albert hall. good luck to those that are, including pemberton good effort and i like their md. i had them 3rd ahead of fairey, but all just opinion. cant believe he managed to miss a sound like leyland's.

Euphodave112233
03.03.2009, 16:11
did anyone hear leyland at the area and wonder just how they came 8th. i heard them and thought they were spectacular. can anyone give me a clue as to why they were completely overlooked. the band members must be really upset.

towse1972
03.03.2009, 16:27
I'm sure your musical judgement is far superior to Mr Read's, but either way it's academic. A lot came down to the reading. Not one band on stage couldn't play that piece. I have to ask which 2 bands out of the 11 you didnt hear.
It's easy to come on here and spout "we/they was robbed" but truth is you cant unless you heard every single band perform.
Leyland band is a phenominal outfit with quality all around the stand, but we all have results we disagree with. It's just not healthy to get wrapped up in it.

3rdcornetsolo
03.03.2009, 16:39
I heard Leyland at the area and have to say I am shocked by the decision to place them 8th.

I did the full (geek) hour of Fairey, Fodens, Leyland and er Timperley and while Fairey's and Fodens were both very impressive (special mention to Nick Walkley on Sop at Fairey's who was fantastic) I actually had Leyland in front of both bands.

The performance was tight and musical and Jason's reading of the piece was fantastic. The sound they created was awsome and, but for a few minor clips (which band didnt?) it really was a great performance.

I spoke to a number of other people who felt the same as me... that the day could have gone to Leyland (and I hear 4br also thought the same).

Commiserations to the band who must be gutted with that placing after such a great performance but congratulations to Fairey's, Fodens and Pemberton who must be over the moon.

Kinrao
03.03.2009, 16:44
It could be said that the result would be averaged out had there been two in the box but 8th is that far off that a second opinion wouldnt have mattered.

Thats banding I guess.

Laura
03.03.2009, 17:05
Which band do you play/ have played for EuphoDave?

Captain Cymru
03.03.2009, 17:44
This is the nature of banding though? Leyland will not be the first or the last of the Top Bands to have a bay day result wise, there will be more upsets to come at the rest of the area's I am sure. Will we have a seperate thread for each one? Best thing is to get over it and move on.

Jan H
03.03.2009, 17:48
Which band do you play/ have played for EuphoDave?
what does it matter in this discussion?

for the rest: what the poster above said ;)

Laura
03.03.2009, 18:34
what does it matter in this discussion?

for the rest: what the poster above said ;)

It doesn't matter at all, I just wondered if I knew this dedicated bandsman that signed up one day after the area because they were so disgraced with the results of a band that wasn't their own. I admire such dedication!
As you can see it has been years since I have last posted anything as I like to play in my band then leave all the politics in the bandroom. I myself in the past have had a shocking result that did cause a stir, I have also thought other bands hard done by like Leyland were on Sunday. However, I would not come on here and make a seperate discussion just to talk about it and maybe (in another topic) lesson other bands efforts because they came ahead.
I would also be worried about upsetting many of my fellow bandsmen and friends by undermining their performance when going into private conversations of what has been said about them.
I do admire EuphoDave for signing up straight away to jump to Leylands defence, they are a fantastic band and many a band would love such a dedicated fan.
I just think sometimes things are best left because unfortunately results won't change and I am sure there will be many many more results which raise an eyebrow.

Apologies if I have got the wrong end of the stick here, but I think euphodave knows what i mean.

deave
03.03.2009, 18:45
We've all had bum results, this one seems rather strange tho! Especially as there were only 11 bands in the contest. We ALL expected Leyland to come higher and I'm sure their quality will shine through in contests later this year.

I must say well done to Leyland band members for not coming on here and griping like mad!! True pros.

Jan H
03.03.2009, 18:46
Apologies if I have got the wrong end of the stick here, but I think euphodave knows what i mean.
No need to apologize - it's just so much easier when everyone just says what he wants to say in stead of just posing suggestive questions ;)

Thansk for the clarification :tup

Brassbones
03.03.2009, 20:48
I'm sure your musical judgement is far superior to Mr Read's....

Hahahal! Subtle ;O)

AndyCat
03.03.2009, 20:53
Hahahal! Subtle ;O)

Probably true though....

GC.
03.03.2009, 21:42
Well, I heard all the first section bands at Blackpool this weekend – and my thanks to all their great efforts with Pentacle.


Sorry to disappoint some, but I’m afraid I'm not getting into the post mortem of contest day and I'm not going to comment on particular bands (except the one). But here are some of my thoughts of the day. . .



Firstly, congratulations to Wardle Anderson Brass!! I will go as far as to say that in my opinion they were worthy, worthy winners. They played confident and controlled, were accurate and detailed, and well, as I kept saying at the time to me they just ‘sparkled’.

I am also pleased to say all the bands had at the very least a good go at the piece. No-one fell apart or just blasted through it as some predicted – and no, the hall didn’t empty after the first couple of bands, in-fact the audience size grew and grew during the day! :)

This is only my opinion, but to me there were about 3 okay performances, 4 good performances and 4 very good performances - and of course the winning performance. But I really did enjoy every band and they were all quite different, with some interesting interpretations.

On the down side of a super contest day - I’d forgotten just how bad the acoustic of that hall was. I’m guessing a bit here – but perhaps those who may have liked the ‘bigger sounding’ bands may have just found the detail was lost by the time it got to the adjudicators box sat upon the balcony. . . maybe, maybe not. (? ? ? ?)


Once again, thank you to all the bands who took part. I felt very honoured.
Well done to Wardle Anderson Brass and Blackburn & Darwen, and good luck in Harrogate.

Roll on Yorkshire at the weekend. :)

AndyCat
03.03.2009, 21:45
On the down side of a super contest day - I’d forgotten just how bad the acoustic of that hall was. I’m guessing a bit here – but perhaps those who may have liked the ‘bigger sounding’ bands may have just found the detail was lost by the time it got to the adjudicators box sat upon the balcony. . . maybe, maybe not. (? ? ? ?)

Which doesn't make it an ideal venue for bands who may have to imminently compete with the "even bigger sounding" bands then?

madsaz
03.03.2009, 21:53
Exactly. We did deliberately avoid using our full sound because we anticipated that the detail would go missing. A few on the floor said we lost out to that but I am not sure we did - I think the louder it got the more you lost in that place. Just goes to show that we shouldn't blame the adjudicator, or the rules or the opposition - its clear that the Empress Ballroom is the true enemy!!

AndyCat
03.03.2009, 22:00
Exactly. We did deliberately avoid using our full sound because we anticipated that the detail would go missing. A few on the floor said we lost out to that but I am not sure we did - I think the louder it got the more you lost in that place. Just goes to show that we shouldn't blame the adjudicator, or the rules or the opposition - its clear that the Empress Ballroom is the true enemy!!

I've just sent my usual letter to the committee about 2 adjudicators, Empress Ballroom etc etc!!

PurpleHaze
04.03.2009, 00:45
Retrospectives are up on 4barsrest! They're not holding back this year...particularly harsh to one band in third section, can't say i would be too happy if i was a member of that band..

4thmandown
04.03.2009, 08:57
Retrospectives are up on 4barsrest! They're not holding back this year...particularly harsh to one band in third section, can't say i would be too happy if i was a member of that band..

Diplomacy has never exactly been a strength of 4BR; their overblown egos and smug superiority tend to run riot at this time of year. My band didn't even get a mention last year after the Midlands Area and I've long held the belief that they get some of their information from a bloke down the pub whose brother-in-law heard the band from outside the door!

ballyhorn
04.03.2009, 09:43
At the end of the day I'm pretty sure the band (Leyland) would not be that bothered either way if they finished where they did, or fourth or even last...Their intention was to qualify and that they didn't will be all that matters...

AndyCat
04.03.2009, 09:53
At the end of the day I'm pretty sure the band (Leyland) would not be that bothered either way if they finished where they did, or fourth or even last...Their intention was to qualify and that they didn't will be all that matters...

The Area is more than that. Another suspect result next year and they'll be 1st Section. I think they will be bothered!

Beesa
04.03.2009, 10:14
Retrospectives are up on 4barsrest! They're not holding back this year...particularly harsh to one band in third section, can't say i would be too happy if i was a member of that band..

I'm not sure if this doesn't tie in with my previous post.

I am sure they can take any criticism, especially if it is warranted.

Columbo
04.03.2009, 15:15
Diplomacy has never exactly been a strength of 4BR; their overblown egos and smug superiority tend to run riot at this time of year. My band didn't even get a mention last year after the Midlands Area and I've long held the belief that they get some of their information from a bloke down the pub whose brother-in-law heard the band from outside the door!

Couldn't agree more! What sort of encouragement is it to the 'also rans' such as ourselves when you read comments from a 'know nothing' individual. It must be difficult though when you haven't done your homework. We finished a creditable 13th and got less of a mention than bands below us. I mean that with the utmost respect for those who finished below us, as I was proud of all the bottom few bands for having the b***ls to show up and keep having a go. For us personally, it would have been the easiest decision to pull out a month ago after listening to, yet again shocking and discouraging adjudicators comments at the results in Preston.

My own comments from our perspective are that: In August of last year, our band (all 7 of them!) were considering putting the instruments back in the cases and closing the bandroom doors. Whilst, at Blackpool our performance was somewhat frantic at times, it was a gutsy and energetic, enthusiastic performance. The last thing I said to my band prior to going on stage is that it was a tremendous achievement to even get to the stage doors that day. I suspect other lower finishing bands also have had issues, which were not respected or taken into consideration in the retrospectives.

I don't mean to be patronising to the lower bands in our section, including ourselves, however, take the positives and ignore the rest. I like friendly rivalry and am competetive like anyone else, however I have the utmost admiration for the efforts and willingness to have a go by all bands in difficult circumstances. Well done to ALL 19 bands and particularly to the qualifiers. Lets hope to see more bands there next year.

PurpleHaze
04.03.2009, 16:54
I'm not sure if this doesn't tie in with my previous post.

I am sure they can take any criticism, especially if it is warranted.

Criticism yes. I wouldn't call it criticism though exactly. I was just a bit shocked that they chose to use those words.

Anyway, what they said didn't offend me so don't want to get too much into it :)

MrBb
04.03.2009, 18:07
My own comments from our perspective are that: In August of last year, our band (all 7 of them!) were considering putting the instruments back in the cases and closing the bandroom doors. Whilst, at Blackpool our performance was somewhat frantic at times, it was a gutsy and energetic, enthusiastic performance. The last thing I said to my band prior to going on stage is that it was a tremendous achievement to even get to the stage doors that day.

I know can certainly agree with those comments. Nelson didn't have half a band last year and i only started playing for them back in September / October time and Agnes (the band secretary) has worked tirelessly trying to get a band built over that time. We’ve been fortune to find some players who have had a long absence away and are trying to get their lips back in (4th man down, flugel, 2nd horn), had some players raise to the occasion (two of the 4 front row cornets were playing back row end of last year) and its was some people very 1st contest ever. Dave our conductor said the main thing is that the band does better than last year (which was last) and not to worry about the result, just to come off stage knowing you’ve played a good performance.

Well everyone’s ecstatic with the result as it’s probably more than what we hoped for before arriving on Sunday and to be even within a shout of qualifying under the circumstances shows the potential. Let’s hope it continues.

Thanks to Dave for all the hard work and extra rehearsals, to Agnes for building a band and to all the other band members for a good team performance.

Just on a personal note about the 4br comments in the retrospective. Me personally, when I’ve played well, I’ve always had a good individual mention from them and this time is no different, So I’m not exactly going to argue with them can I ;-) lol! Thanks Guys

ballyhorn
05.03.2009, 09:40
One suspect result fair enough Andy but if you are getting more than one maybe you aren't as good as you think.....So I don't think they would be unduly worried about dropping a section...From what I've heard they tried to do too much with the piece which is a bit dodgy knowing the adjudicator beforehand and by all accounts if they had just played it they may have even won....So no fears of dropping in my eyes...

Columbo
05.03.2009, 10:53
From what I've heard they tried to do too much with the piece which is a bit dodgy knowing the adjudicator beforehand and by all accounts if they had just played it they may have even won....So no fears of dropping in my eyes...

Whilst in a lower section ,I have to agree with you. I held my hand up also after our contest. I tried to second guess our adjudicator also and maybe tried too hard to do too much at our level. A lesson I, as a quite inexperienced conductor have learned very quickly. I had Brian Buckley down as quite analytical, therefore I looked at the most intricate parts on the score and tried to pick out the features of the piece. This fragmented the piece somewhat and as his comments said, perhaps I should have concentrated on the overall picture and a lighter performance. I have to agree with most of his comments, however I thought my job was to pick out the detail also? We were happy anyway (13th)and, as I am very self critical, have been told not to be too hard on myself, the point being (to agree with you) perhaps I should have less fear of getting it wrong and worry less!

philram
07.03.2009, 21:37
Will be interesting to see what's made of the 1st section results. I can't believe the remarks in my hand. They refer to things that didn't happen in our performance.
The band is gutted after what we thought was a very good performance.
Questionable use of percussion players as well. The sheet that came to us clearly states 3 players, but at least one band used 4.
Anyway, nearly down to the 2nd section. But in the Grand Shield!

No wonder banding loses so many players.

Our band (Ashton) played with four percussion & also played within the rules.
If they put the adjudicator (How ever talented he..or she may be) at the front of the hall, I think you'll find they hear every note! With the adjudicator towards the rear of the hall, all they can hear is a complete "Mush" of noise & this makes the first section a lottery, every year!..You only have to ask the audience who sat at the front what thier opinion was & you'll get nearer the truth. I do feel sorry for bands that nail the piece year in year out & get nowt for thier efforts & believe me Andy, I bet I've felt worse than you after the 1st section results! I heard that your band played very well so congrats for that! The hall shouldn't really be used for contests. As for us we've been promoted! Thank goodness! Congrats to Martyn Evans & the team for finally getting us out of the ballroom & in to the Championship section!

madsaz
07.03.2009, 21:45
Better put than me Phil

Basically we feel like we have waited nicely for a while & are delighted to get back into the championship section once more - better acoustic, better start time and hopefully there to stay.

Roycoater
08.03.2009, 11:26
Quick question - why was there only one adjudicator for all the sections at Blackpool for the North West areas when at Bradford, with fewer bands entered, are there two adjudicators for each section ?

philram
08.03.2009, 11:59
Yes, just the one. I think it would have been good to have graham Cole in the box aswell.

Eb_Alex
08.03.2009, 12:11
there are always inconsistencies between areas in terms of adjudicators, I don't know how they can call it fair for everyone when we are all aiming for the same prize we should all be judged in the same way and probably by the same person throughout all of the areas, that way the same individual perspective is applied to all competing bands and the results will seem more tangible to everyone I am sure.

Anno Draconis
08.03.2009, 12:49
Quick question - why was there only one adjudicator for all the sections at Blackpool for the North West areas when at Bradford, with fewer bands entered, are there two adjudicators for each section ?

Ah, the perennial whinge. Because not enough bands ask the committee to provide 2, that's why. If it's an issue, get your band's committee to write to Peter Bates about it, or go to the next meeting and bring it up. I'm sure they'd be delighted to have more member bands making a contribution to the meetings......

brassneck
08.03.2009, 12:54
Ah, the perennial whinge. Because not enough bands ask the committee to provide 2, that's why. If it's an issue, get your band's committee to write to Peter Bates about it, or go to the next meeting and bring it up. I'm sure they'd be delighted to have more member bands making a contribution to the meetings......

As you have mentioned contributions, did you manage to have a chat to the adjudicator about your ditty before the contest started? :confused:

Anno Draconis
08.03.2009, 12:55
there are always inconsistencies between areas in terms of adjudicators, I don't know how they can call it fair for everyone when we are all aiming for the same prize we should all be judged in the same way and probably by the same person throughout all of the areas, that way the same individual perspective is applied to all competing bands and the results will seem more tangible to everyone I am sure.

I'm not sure it's necessary, or practical, to have the same judge for every section throughout the country - for instance next weekend Wales and the Midlands clash, so they would have to be on separate weekends. If every area was on a separate weekend (especially with Easter being when it is), the contests wouldn't finish until the end of April.

Consistency within an individual section would be nice though :rolleyes: - and I'd give my eye teeth for a more detailed/constructive set of remarks. I don't necessarily subscribe to the view that 2 in a box would be better, though, there would still be the usual WWR arguments - look at the fuss there has been at the Masters in the past.

Anno Draconis
08.03.2009, 12:57
As you have mentioned contributions, did you manage to have a chat to the adjudicator about your ditty before the contest started? :confused:

Nope! But then I don't think that's unusual...

brassneck
08.03.2009, 13:01
Nope! But then I don't think that's unusual...


... as a certain Tom Jones once said about something else! :rolleyes: Out of interest, did his summary match your expectations? Your score would transcribe nicely for wind band, btw!

AndyCat
08.03.2009, 13:06
Yes, every year I write in officially to as k for 2 adjudicators, and every year I get the reply that I'm the only one, or one of a couple, that write and request it. Therefore they're not willing to pay for the extra men.

Until more people air their views officially to the committee via Peter Bates, then nothing will change.

PeterBale
08.03.2009, 16:33
. . . we should all be judged in the same way and probably by the same person throughout all of the areas, that way the same individual perspective is applied to all competing bands and the results will seem more tangible to everyone I am sure.

Even with the same person, it is likely that later adjudications would be influenced to some extent by what they had heard in previous Areas, so there is no way that eveyone can be in exactly the same position, although set criteria as has been suggested could be a help.

Bayerd
08.03.2009, 18:56
Ah, the perennial whinge. Because not enough bands ask the committee to provide 2, that's why. If it's an issue, get your band's committee to write to Peter Bates about it, or go to the next meeting and bring it up. I'm sure they'd be delighted to have more member bands making a contribution to the meetings......

So the line is drawn then, the bands might be bothered, but not that bothered.......

floppymute
09.03.2009, 10:42
Yes, every year I write in officially to as k for 2 adjudicators, and every year I get the reply that I'm the only one, or one of a couple, that write and request it. Therefore they're not willing to pay for the extra men.

Until more people air their views officially to the committee via Peter Bates, then nothing will change.
With you all the way on this one.
Strikes me that the onus shouldn't be on the bands to request two adjudicators, that's a 'cop out' by the organisers If the they think that it's a necessity for the other regions why is the North West different? Are we easier to judge?

floppymute
09.03.2009, 10:49
In fact, the more I think about this, the more ridiculous it appears. The argument would suggest that the reason the other regions have two adjudicators is that the bands in those regions have written in in their droves to request it. Are they so different in their concientious attitude to bands in the North West? I rather doubt it.
Spherical objects come to mind!

Anno Draconis
09.03.2009, 11:11
In fact, the more I think about this, the more ridiculous it appears. The argument would suggest that the reason the other regions have two adjudicators is that the bands in those regions have written in in their droves to request it. Are they so different in their concientious attitude to bands in the North West? I rather doubt it.
Spherical objects come to mind!

If they think that it's a necessity for the other regions

Well clearly 50% DON'T, since only half the regions have two. Wales, NW, L&SC and Nothern have one. The reason being, that's the decision the Regional Committees have taken. That's what they're there for, to take decisions on behalf of bands who are too apathetic and lazy, in general, to give two hoots about how the Area is organised, as long as someone else does it. And please note, I'm one of the lazy ones - I have no desire to get involved in organising or volunteering, but I've got tremendous respect for those who do, for no reward and in their own free time.

Why is it "ridiculous", and a "cop out" by the organisers? They are the ones who would have to find 5 extra fees. I've heard just as many bands complaining about the entry fees, the cost of tickets for non-players and the paltry prize money, as I have heard moaning about the single adjudicator, so the unscientific evidence seems to indicate that most bands don't care about the number of adjudicators. If you do, the best way to change things is to get on't committee and get involved in helping to organise the contest.

floppymute
09.03.2009, 12:48
Why is it "ridiculous", and a "cop out" by the organisers? They are the ones who would have to find 5 extra fees. I've heard just as many bands complaining about the entry fees, the cost of tickets for non-players and the paltry prize money, as I have heard moaning about the single adjudicator, so the unscientific evidence seems to indicate that most bands don't care about the number of adjudicators. If you do, the best way to change things is to get on't committee and get involved in helping to organise the contest.

Ok, so if that argument is to hold water, why are there two adjudicators in some regions and not others? Surely the same financial constraints apply countrywide?
Bottom line in my view is that for a 'National' contest the same criteria should apply in each region - it should be a 'level playing field' region to region, not simply within a region, if only to put an end to the annual gripe that some regions are treated differently. So if finance is the problem then it should be only one adjudicator everywhere.

Anno Draconis
09.03.2009, 13:26
I kind of agree with you in principle, in that I'd prefer everything to be the same in each region. However, you're assuming that there is a level of "National" involvement in the Regionals. There isn't; the only things decided "nationally" are the rules and the testpieces. Absolutely everything else is devolved to the regional committees, and we have no idea what the financial constraints on them are; they almost certainly aren't the same from region to region. I have no idea what Scotland pay for their venue, for instance, compared with the £6000-ish that the NW pay for the Winter Gardens. There are (as far as I know) TWO North West Associations - NWABBA and NWCBBA - which must dilute the membership fees a bit and reduce the pot of available money. At the North West they have to hire THREE sets of gear from Ray Payne, because there are 3 halls in use simultaneously. Yorkshire use the same hall all weekend, and therefore only need to hire one set of gear. Yorkshire (and other areas) also "recycle" their adjudicators; quite a few of them do a section on Saturday AND Sunday, so there may be a cost saving there; there may be a better rate available if an adjudicator knows he's getting 2 days work instead of one. Some committees may simply have more in the bank than others - I have no idea if the Area contest is run at a loss, or makes money which is put somewhere else. Some contests are more prominent as a "local" championship than others (for instance, Wales and Scotland use the Area as their "National" championship and their qualifying contest for the European, and Yorkshire market the contest as the "Yorkshire Brass Band Championships" first and a regional qualifying contest second).

Whatever the financial issues are, you can bet that they ARE different from region to region, and the fact remains that everything - venue, adjudicators, printing, Ray Payne, etc. - still has to be organised and paid for locally, by the local committee, so unless Kapitol (as owners of the Nationals) start to stipulate some degree of standardisation it ain't ever gonna happen. And they don't seem unduly concerned.

It's a local contest, for local people ;) - so the only way you'll change it (if you're genuinely concerned about it) is to get stuck into the local committee; starting with finding out about the finances, because that will always be the deciding factor unfortunately.

floppymute
09.03.2009, 16:13
First of all, call me cynical but let me say that I don't think anything will change, nomatter how many bands write in, simply because I have the feeling that the present organisers are too comfortable with the year on year status quo.
To answer some of your points:
This is, and should be, a 'National' contest and therefore should have a much more standardised approach. The ultimate goal after all is to find the National Champions at each level.
So far as I am aware the regional organisers are autonamous and have no connection to area associations. Certainly this is the one contest I attend each year in the NW where there are none of the excellent officials of the NWCBBA in evidence behind the scenes, so their I suspect their finances don't come into the equation.
As for expenses, in my own experience, adjudicators are retained on a daily fee. I very much doubt there would be a discounted rate for a two day 'job'.
Roy Paine does indeed have to supply percussion for three halls, but only for one day. Elsewhere, there may be a lesser quantity required but it's supplied for two days rather than one, again no doubt incurring extra charge which should go some way to balancing things up.
If each region did have to completely finance it's own Area Championship, whatever it may be called, then Ok, but these contests are made financially viable because of the Kapitol sponsorship, the use of which should be equitable region to region. Perhaps it is, but it doesn't seem so on the surface.
Which brings us almost full circle - why oh why do we have to use the Winter Gardens anyway, other than to be able to squeeze everything into one day? Every year bands complain about the appalling accoustics which turn such an important contest into a lottery, and I'm sorry, but there is enough 'background noise' on this for the organisers to realise the venue musically is a mistake without having to wait for formal submissions from bands. Musical quality should be the first priority of organising a band contest, otherwise why bother. There are a number of suitable alternative venues across the North West, some of which are already used for other contests without breaking the bank.
To summarise, I can't see that it is beyond the wit of man to organise these contests within budget so that the format is identical in each region. We don't live on different planets!

centralbankofdad
10.03.2009, 12:53
The fact that all bands can compete on the same day makes the NW region one of the most satisfying. Having performed in the NW and Yorks. this year, I still prefer the Winter Gardens for all their shortcomings. I don't agree that this is purely a musical event. There is far more to banding than simply playing an instrument.
Grenville Moore.

Beesa
11.03.2009, 10:59
All bands on the same day make this a great event. The only problem is that there are usually bands playing at the same time and it can be difficult to decide which to see and which to miss.

This is always a predicament I find myself in.

I resolved this predicament quite easily this year by just going straight to the bar and staying there. (well, apart from a handful of bands in our section but there is a limit to the amount of beer and bull**** I can consume and spout)

nigeb12
11.03.2009, 11:16
The fact that all bands can compete on the same day makes the NW region one of the most satisfying. Having performed in the NW and Yorks. this year, I still prefer the Winter Gardens for all their shortcomings. I don't agree that this is purely a musical event. There is far more to banding than simply playing an instrument.
Grenville Moore.

I agree that having the sections on the same day is satisfying but some of the halls (or at least one) are not good to play in and perhaps more importantly are dreadful to hear in.

Would the RNCM not offer a better solution?

Columbo
11.03.2009, 11:27
would the rncm not offer a better solution?

no

ballyhorn
11.03.2009, 12:31
no

Pathetic.....What sort of answer is that? At least justify yourself as to why not....I mean did you really think that was a worthwhile contribution to this discussion?

brassbandmaestro
11.03.2009, 12:39
Although from a different area of the Nationals, the talk earlier on about the standardization of the areas, makes sense. I am pretty sure most people here would agree that this would be a good scenario to have. With an event that's as big as this, there is surely a need for some sort of regulatory standardization of all the areas in question.

centralbankofdad
11.03.2009, 12:56
I agree that having the sections on the same day is satisfying but some of the halls (or at least one) are not good to play in and perhaps more importantly are dreadful to hear in.

Would the RNCM not offer a better solution?


As far as I know there are only two adequate halls, though I may be wrong.
The foyer facilities are good and the college is well placed but overall I see no advantage. Sheer size makes the Winter Gardens perfect.
The ballroom does have an awful acoustic but we all know that, and can take measures to ensure that we present our bands accordingly.

Columbo
11.03.2009, 13:04
Pathetic.....What sort of answer is that? At least justify yourself as to why not....I mean did you really think that was a worthwhile contribution to this discussion?

Worthwhile is getting personal then? It was a question, therefore I answered it. If provocation was your intention then well done! Also, not everything in brass bands now has to revolve around the RNCM (just a friendly opinion). Personally, I quite like the WG at Blackpool. It has worked for years and produced some great results and memorable contests for many bandsmen of all backgrounds, although I did personally enjoy The Guild Hall, Preston. You will always get unsatisfactory results, regardless of venue and/or adjudicators. Its great that we all have different opinions, but thats all they are and nobody is particularly right or wrong.

Anno Draconis
11.03.2009, 13:11
I agree that having the sections on the same day is satisfying but some of the halls (or at least one) are not good to play in and perhaps more importantly are dreadful to hear in.

Would the RNCM not offer a better solution?

This was discussed at some length on here after last year's contest. The principal issue, I believe, would be the cost of hiring the RNCM for the weekend, which is apparently much higher than the WG. I suspect the bar/catering facilities would struggle also and coach parking & turning would be a problem. There is no parking at the front of the college and space at the back is limited to, I would guess, 5 or 6 coaches.

There's also the issue of whether the RNCM would WANT the area contest to be held there - the Bridgewater Hall deliberately priced themselves out of the market for the Open & Grand Shield after the Free Trade Hall closed because they didn't want it. After all, the college has to be cleaned and ready for students on Monday morning, and the state of the WG at the end of the Sunday night is something to behold - they, however, don't generally have to be open and functioning at 8am the next morning.

There's also a capacity issue - the biggest hall is the RNCM Theatre which seats 672 with the pit taken out; the Opera House in the Winter Gardens seats 1500 even with the circle and balcony closed. I know it's rarely full, but for the big name top section bands, and especially at results time, it gets close.

I don't mean to be negative, but those moaning about the WG (including me, at times!) need to realise that better venues/extra adjudicators etc., cost more money. A LOT more money. We can't play in the best halls with multiple adjudicators unless we're all prepared to pay significantly more money in entry fees. Bearing in mind the fact that there were people on this very site moaning that the 3rd section testpiece was a few quid more expensive than the 4th section, that doesn't seem likely, does it? ;)

nigeb12
11.03.2009, 19:22
no

OK sorry

ballyhorn
12.03.2009, 07:22
Worthwhile is getting personal then? It was a question, therefore I answered it. If provocation was your intention then well done! Also, not everything in brass bands now has to revolve around the RNCM (just a friendly opinion). Personally, I quite like the WG at Blackpool. It has worked for years and produced some great results and memorable contests for many bandsmen of all backgrounds, although I did personally enjoy The Guild Hall, Preston. You will always get unsatisfactory results, regardless of venue and/or adjudicators. Its great that we all have different opinions, but thats all they are and nobody is particularly right or wrong.

It wasn't intended to be personal....and why feel provoked? I just said an explanation would have been more helpful...Or it begins to feel like talking to the kids..."You going out tonight"?....."Yeah"....(pause)....."Where"?...."Just out"....(pause)....."Who with"?...."Nobody".........etc etc etc...

ian perks
12.03.2009, 11:49
I agree that having the sections on the same day is satisfying but some of the halls (or at least one) are not good to play in and perhaps more importantly are dreadful to hear in.

Would the RNCM not offer a better solution?
Your best venue up there is
The Guild Hall Preston!!!!!

Anno Draconis
12.03.2009, 14:54
Your best venue up there is
The Guild Hall Preston!!!!!

And indeed I believe the area used to be held there. But the question is not simply "what is the best venue?" - and in any case the answer to that is "The Bridgewater Hall" - but more like "what is the cheapest venue that can accomodate 70+ bands with catering and beer and that it's possible to park at for less than 8 quid?"

To which the answer is, inevitably and unfortuately, The Winter Gardens.:rolleyes:

DobX Dave
12.03.2009, 15:06
I feel sure that my suggestion has been already covered by someone else in a previous thread, but what I would like to see is two adjudicators in every section BUT sat apart in different boxes.

That way, the more dominant adjudicator does not cajole the weaker or less experienced adjudicator.

Regarding the Halls, well it sounds as if you all know the problems with Blackpool, why do you not ‘adjust your performances’ to suit the acoustics.

floppymute
12.03.2009, 19:32
And indeed I believe the area used to be held there. But the question is not simply "what is the best venue?" - and in any case the answer to that is "The Bridgewater Hall" - but more like "what is the cheapest venue that can accomodate 70+ bands with catering and beer and that it's possible to park at for less than 8 quid?"

To which the answer is, inevitably and unfortuately, The Winter Gardens.:rolleyes:
The Guild Hall can accommodate 5 sections on one day in two large capacity halls, as indeed is the case at Brass at The Guild (Champ/1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th & Youth), The cost is unlikely to be more than the Winter gardens otherwise it would be prohibitive for Lancashire Contests to promote the aforesaid contest, and parking on a Sunday is free in the large multi-storey attached to the venue. Plenty of coach parking space in the adjacent bus station - AND one of the best accoustics in the North West.
What's the problem?!

philram
12.03.2009, 19:56
Extremely nice comments indeed Jason! Ta very much!
Hows the stick wagging soing? Good i hope & good luck with it.
See you at Tameside if you're there.
Cheers

Anno Draconis
12.03.2009, 20:10
The Guild Hall can accommodate 5 sections on one day in two large capacity halls, as indeed is the case at Brass at The Guild (Champ/1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th & Youth), The cost is unlikely to be more than the Winter gardens otherwise it would be prohibitive for Lancashire Contests to promote the aforesaid contest, and parking on a Sunday is free in the large multi-storey attached to the venue. Plenty of coach parking space in the adjacent bus station - AND one of the best accoustics in the North West.
What's the problem?!
Brass at the guild = 43 bands this year in 4 sections
Area = 74 bands this year in 5 sections; not do-able in 1 day across 2 halls without a very early start or very late finish. The hall would be needed for 2 days therefore twice the cost. I'm guessing that's the problem. Plus the GH is fine if you're actually in the main hall, but the charter theatre isn't great.

Has anyone actually put any of these points to Peter and the committee? It's all very well debating it on here, but they're the people with the power to change things.

Columbo
13.03.2009, 00:05
Extremely nice comments indeed Jason! Ta very much!
Hows the stick wagging soing? Good i hope & good luck with it.
See you at Tameside if you're there.
Cheers

Hi Phil, You are welcome. Going very well thanks, but b****y hard work as I anticipated. Personnel is the hardest part. Look forward to seeing you at Tameside.

floppymute
13.03.2009, 11:50
Brass at the guild = 43 bands this year in 4 sections
Area = 74 bands this year in 5 sections; not do-able in 1 day across 2 halls without a very early start or very late finish. The hall would be needed for 2 days therefore twice the cost. I'm guessing that's the problem. Plus the GH is fine if you're actually in the main hall, but the charter theatre isn't great.

Has anyone actually put any of these points to Peter and the committee? It's all very well debating it on here, but they're the people with the power to change things.
The Charter may not be great but it's a heck of a lot better than anything the Winter Gardens can offer accoustically.
As for the timings, in the past Brass at the Guild has had a bigger entry than this year and coped admirably well.
With some careful planning it would be do-able. Even if we do end up with a later finish, we don't all turn into pumpkins at midnight, and yes, I do appreciate that some bands have young players to consider, but these same younger players do participate in evening concerts etc. on other occasions without problems.
That's where the 'careful planning' comes into play. It's a matter of planning to ensure that no one band is having to be at the venue for a considerable part of the day.
Not rocket science this.

Al
01.04.2009, 21:34
I have been reading some of the other area threads and realise what is being missed by having all the bands on the same day. Three halls are being used at the same time and it is always quite impossible to see all the bands you want to.

Although the Regional Contest is a fantastic event at the Winter Gardens and Blackpool seems to have a lot to offer, I think the North West should strongly consider moving elsewhere and make a full contesting weekend of it.

I can still see the advantages of all under one roof on the same day though.

What would cause a change I wonder?

Bayerd
02.04.2009, 02:17
I have been reading some of the other area threads and realise what is being missed by having all the bands on the same day. Three halls are being used at the same time and it is always quite impossible to see all the bands you want to.

Although the Regional Contest is a fantastic event at the Winter Gardens and Blackpool seems to have a lot to offer, I think the North West should strongly consider moving elsewhere and make a full contesting weekend of it.

I can still see the advantages of all under one roof on the same day though.

What would cause a change I wonder?

Fire?

Al
02.04.2009, 07:06
Ha Ha!!

BIG Paul
02.04.2009, 10:57
maybe the changes due at the winter gardens at the end of this year, the hotel manager where we stayed was telling me they don't know the fate of the winter gardens from October this year as the contract for operating it is up for renewal, as was the contract for Tameside hippodrome last year, it could go the same way.

Al
03.04.2009, 10:24
I think if the Winter Gardens ever goes we will all realise what 'atmosphere' it had and mourn the loss.

BUt then again, those of us who remember Belle Vue, that had stacks of atmosphere and so much banding history attached to it. But it was, let's face it, a dump.

Or am I being unkind?

JR
08.04.2009, 11:42
I think if the Winter Gardens ever goes we will all realise what 'atmosphere' it had and mourn the loss.

BUt then again, those of us who remember Belle Vue, that had stacks of atmosphere and so much banding history attached to it. But it was, let's face it, a dump.

Or am I being unkind?

No - I loved Belle Vue but probably through heavily rose-tinted specs.

The Kings Hall was the only venue with any atmosphere - at the Spring Festival each year the other "halls" were either cordoned-off bits of gigantic sheds described as "Exhibition Halls" or the middle of a Ballroom - the modern day equivalent would be that disco in Pontins - the one with the sticky carpet...

I remember the North West Area being held at Preston Guildhall in the late 70s (e.g.when Mal Brownbill won on Pageantry with Wingates in '77) and through to the 80s (when there was a controversial decision on "Shining River"...) - I would have thought there were more bands competing then than now - must be cheaper at Blackpool presumably

JR