Loyalty

[Wonky_Baton]

Big problems with one band in the north east, where three players have defected just before the regional for various reasons and have been pillioried for it by the band in the bands web forum. :?

Should the band remember the good the players have done in the past or shun them because they wanted to move on? The band in question have always done quite well out of pinching other bands players and I see double standards and a smell of male cows poo. :D

Is this right considering we are all amateur musicians?? :roll:

[Singapore Northern Lass]

:x :x :x It makes me soooooooo mad when players are name called because they want to move on, for people to do so just before a major contest usually means something has gone drastically wrong for them in the band they were in, I have no idea as to which band you mean but maybe they should look a bit closer to home before condemning those who left :?: :?: :?:

[Roger Thorne]

I don't know what has gone on with the Band in the 'North East' but the question you should asked is -
Is there ever a good time to leave a Band?

I wonder if this is the first band to experience the effects of the change in Registration Rules?

How many other bands will loose players a week or so before the Area's to find them playing at the same contest with a different band?

[Curious]

This can be a really difficult area and in my experience lots of good friendships have been affected because of people's inability to divorce "banding" and other facets of life.

We all make choices to try and improve our life standards and banding should be no different.

If people make a decision to go then we should all try not to rip them apart afterwards.

On the other hand it should always be incumbent on players to try and leave at the most convenient time (if there is such a thing as Roger correctly points out!!)

Always an emotive subject around this time!!!!! :( :( :evil: :evil:

[BigHorn]

Its a bit rich bands complaining that their best players move on at awkward times. How many bands (MDs), realising that their preparation for a contest is not going that well, would bring in superior players to replace those not up to scratch?. Probably most who take their contesting seriously.
Players don't walk away without somewhere to go and there is no where to go unless somebody has been forced out of their position. Loyalty works both ways- you can't complain about player loyalty if you dont show any loyalty to your players. Live by the sword and you die by it. Make your bed and lie in it. etc.
I don't necessarily think hiring / firing is wrong if thats the way you want your band to run, but you can't expect one sided loyalty.

[Boneman]

I have not had much experience of this, where our band is there are not many other bands locally so poaching/losing players is not really much of an option for us (thankfully!)

Having said that I get a lot of pleasure from the band I play with and I would not want to leave the Band (and my friends!) in the lurch.

If I did have to leave I would like to think I would fulfill any outstanding engagements, and try to give time for a replacement to be found.

[Keppler]

I find myself a bit in over my head on this discussion..
BH raises a couple of good points.
However are we talking about a band or a business? I realise the importance of contests as much as anyone, but seems to me that a purely contest-success driven group of musicians is missing the point.

For all the bands out there with constitutions (possibly most?) look at the primary aims and objectives of your band. I'll bet that in most cases, they include a phrase:
- To raise the standard of music of the band and its members.. blah blah..

This makes the sort of "hiring and firing" mentioned by BH unconstitutional.
I'm not saying that all bands (or even a lot of bands) do this sort of thing. I'm fairly sure that 99% of them don't. But if this is going to be an acceptable method of "musical-progression" in a band, it should be laid out so that it's obvious to the "members". Other bands can then have loyalty to their members and receive loyalty from them in return. The business bands can do their own thing.

We've had plenty of oppertunity in the past to make line up changes for concerts. We decided not to artificially raise the standard of our band for the purposes of contests. I think it was the right decision.

Forgive the soap-box..
Neal (16 years with DBB and climbing)

[sparkling_quavers]

This makes the sort of "hiring and firing" mentioned by BH unconstitutional.
I'm not saying that all bands (or even a lot of bands) do this sort of thing. I'm fairly sure that 99% of them don't.

:shock: I think you would be surprised Keppler!!

Perhaps this is moving away from the point. The original comment was about players leaving a band in the lurch jsut before a contest. Sometimes personal reasons crop up but I don't think there can be many good reasons to leave a band in the lurch like that! As to the new registration laws allowing players to register with a new band at very late notice. This is a very useful tool for many bands who might be struggling with a few positions in the run up for a contest but like all other rules....there will be some people who will abuse it. If players want to move on to better things then that is great and I think most bandspeople respect their fellows that choose to do that. But to be honest, if a person leaves and registers with a new band a week before a contest it is most likely that they are doing it in spite or have eventually given in to weeks of 'come play for us phone calls'. To leave a band just before a contest is bad enough but to register and play for another band is a pretty low thing to do! I personally wouldn't have any respect for a bandsperson that chose to do that. If he/she wants to move on they need to do it in a dignified manner and leave with enough notice/after contests.

[bigcol]

Seeing as it's my band we are talking about I'd better say something.

IMHO players moving is ok as long as it is done with a bit of notice with upcoming contests taken into account. When I resigned from my last band, I still did the contest (CISWO) afterwards.

I know how much of a hassle it is both as a ****ed off player on one side whose fed up and wants to move on, and a ****ed off band secretary who has to find 4 players 2 weeks before a contest because of such actions.

I can't say that the band I left think of me any better because I gave them notice, but I feel better and I won't get a reputation as a mardy sod with other bands.

I suppose it's burning bridges - I hope to sometime go back to my old band when the dusts settles and my reason for leaving is removed. If I'd a gone in a puff of smoke, I doubt I'd ever be allowed back.

At the top section, such is the demand for good players that maybe those issues are peripheral to the main aim of winning contests.

Thanks Alan for bringing this up - it's a mute point with a few people I know!!

[cornetgirl]

I think it's quite an emotive issue really...

In many cases it depends on the circumstances - could you in all honesty leave a band on good terms if you've been stabbed in the back? I don't think so!

If a band is worth its salt then it shouldn't (IMHO) "buy in" players in the run-up to a big contest to get a better result - what does that say for the team who've been working damn hard for all those weeks before. Similarly, if you make a commitment to a band then you should be prepared to see it through and not run because a better offer has come up...if the better offer is that keen then they will wait for you to fulfil your commitments (in theory)!

I find it quite sad that this still goes on really...the politics of banding can be pretty cruel at times and in some cases I've seen it really upset people. I'm thankful that there are a majority of decent people in banding who play because they enjoy it and don't set out to cause trouble - long may they reign!

Rach x

[sparkling_quavers]

I think it's quite an emotive issue really...

In many cases it depends on the circumstances - could you in all honesty leave a band on good terms if you've been stabbed in the back? I don't think so!

If a band is worth its salt then it shouldn't (IMHO) "buy in" players in the run-up to a big contest to get a better result - what does that say for the team who've been working damn hard for all those weeks before. Similarly, if you make a commitment to a band then you should be prepared to see it through and not run because a better offer has come up...if the better offer is that keen then they will wait for you to fulfil your commitments (in theory)!

I find it quite sad that this still goes on really...the politics of banding can be pretty cruel at times and in some cases I've seen it really upset people. I'm thankful that there are a majority of decent people in banding who play because they enjoy it and don't set out to cause trouble - long may they reign!

Rach x

In total agreement !

[cornetgirl]

Cheers! :D

[cornetgirl]

Big problems with one band in the north east, where three players have defected just before the regional for various reasons and have been pillioried for it by the band in the bands web forum. :?


IMHO (yet again, I'm a very humble kinda person!) is a band's web forum the best place to pillory players who have left for whatever reason? I know I'd hate to be slagged off online so to speak for the world to see...maybe this is something to think about for all bands that do have a forum - should it be band members only and password controlled or is that taking things too far?

Just my two penn'orth... :? I'm a peace-loving person and I hate it when things get nasty! :(

R x

[Curious]

Seeing as it's my band we are talking about I'd better say something.

IMHO players moving is ok as long as it is done with a bit of notice with upcoming contests taken into account. When I resigned from my last band, I still did the contest (CISWO) afterwards.

I know how much of a hassle it is both as a ****ed off player on one side whose fed up and wants to move on, and a ****ed off band secretary who has to find 4 players 2 weeks before a contest because of such actions.

I can't say that the band I left think of me any better because I gave them notice, but I feel better and I won't get a reputation as a mardy sod with other bands.

I really think everyone has made some valid honesr points on this subject. One question I would like to ask is Where do these replacements then come from? Are there really that many unregistered players floating around ?
I suppose it's burning bridges - I hope to sometime go back to my old band when the dusts settles and my reason for leaving is removed. If I'd a gone in a puff of smoke, I doubt I'd ever be allowed back.

At the top section, such is the demand for good players that maybe those issues are peripheral to the main aim of winning contests.

Thanks Alan for bringing this up - it's a mute point with a few people I know!!

[bigcol]

In reponse to GB's web forum, they have already deleted some posts so I guess they already know it is not good crack.

I'm a newbie to the band - the reason in my post I used myself instead of the band as an example is because:

a) I'm not really too involved with the band, and don't really mind what goes on

and

b) They haven't been shy of "recruiting" players in the past

I was more bothered about the philosophy of players leaving without notice and how I had to put up with serving my notice, therefore why should anyone else get away with it :shock:

[Big Twigge]

I left to go to university in leeds a year and a half ago and I'm still playing with band at home (Shropshire) when I can, that must make me really loyal!!!!

(Or am I just a big fat band geek......................???)

[NottinghamFlorist]

Going purely on your name I would hazzard a guess at the latter.

:wink: :D

[Wonky_Baton]

There appears to be different reasons why the players left that particular band. One wanted to play flugal and was put on rep, but left to take a flugal seat at a first section band. One lad was disappointed cos the band withdrew from the last contest. It appears the 3rd just wanted to leave.

Life is too short to waste time doing anything that you are not happy. Its costs both time and money to play in a band and if there is someting you dont agree with then its time to go otherwise your frustration will affect the rest of the band.

I could understand this bands argument if the players involved are long term members but the band have a tight knit nucleus and the rest of the players arrive and depart regularly. I would hazard a guess that 50% of their players have been there less than a year and they should get revolving doors on the bandroom. They must have a full time clerk at the registration office just for them :P

It takes a long time to build genuine affection for a band. I have played for well over 12 bands and have enjoyed them all but I have only felt any loyalty and affection for 3 of them. Every player thats leaves a band for a genuine reason should be borne no malice. A saying springs to mind people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones :roll:

[Di B]

Interesting subject!

In my banding years I feel strongly about only two bands and one of them is the one I am in now.

I have always tried to give notice with bands I have played with. Sometimes this is just not possible though and I feel terribly guilty about it!

There bands where I have given notice have had different reactions.

The Chmp/1st section bands have been very good about it and appreciated the notice I gave and the fact I stated they could call on me if they needed assistance (even when I was moving 50 miles away!)

The lower sections I have played with have ended up having a dig at me at times. Once I handed my notice into a band yet played for the next contest even though it was six weeks away. In those six weeks people wouldn't talk to me and would make snide comments so that to be honest I was thankful to get away from a band which I had held so close to my heart! (This is going back a long time ago and I did in fact rejoin down the line!)

I think even if you have lost heart, you should give a band adequate notice wherever possible. People who don't do this in my opinion cannot really ever have cared about the band. I guess the exception I personally make is for the 'hire and fire' conductors. If you do that to people who put effort and dedication into your band then you cannot have a go at people leaving without notice! Additionally, people backstabbing, namecalling and creating a bad atmosphere in the band is also an acceptable reason to me for leaving without or with very little notice.

Interestingly, I have also been honest with a band I was registered with about going to play with another band who did want me to sign and that I was tempted to sign. My reasoning behind this was with banding gossip my band would find out anyway so thought I would be up front about it.

The reaction was interesting.... they just wanted to know if I was going to stay or go and then do one immediatly. So I guess that although bands may appreciate notice, they do not necessarily appreciate honesty! lol!

For those interested, in hindsight I made the right decision at the time for me. :)

Di xx
www.matlockband.co.uk

[satchmo shaz]

lifes tooo short! enjoy while you can I say!
just glad you;re back playing Di, and I'm glad you helped good ole LE out when you 1st came back to this area :)

[Di B]

lifes tooo short! enjoy while you can I say!
just glad you;re back playing Di, and I'm glad you helped good ole LE out when you 1st came back to this area :)

Aww... cheers, but LE is one of the bands I think I will always feel connested to for better or worse! :D

As for coming out of retirement..... I still need to throttle squeaky for that one! I'd better wait until *after* the area now though! lol!

[satchmo shaz]

I was egging you on as well telling you to keep playing........ I knew you would, I could see you were enjoying playing again!

[Di B]

I was egging you on as well telling you to keep playing........ I knew you would, I could see you were enjoying playing again!

Does that mean I have to throttle you as well? *sigh* Ok then.... in the bar after the area... or you can buy me 5 pints instead?

Guess that banding has never left me... I never could be a small drinker! :lol:

[satchmo shaz]

or you could buy me some :) maybe matlock should........... buy me some I mean ... not throttle me!! :lol:

[Di B]

or you could buy me some :) maybe matlock should........... buy me some I mean ... not throttle me!! :lol:

lol! Just make sure you don't drink any of Matlocks own beer or you'll get throttled anyway! Lol!

[HBB]

Can everyone stop using abbrev. please! :P:P:P:P because I ain't got a clue wot ur all on about!!! :):):)

Im a IMOH in a SCABA?!

[Valvecap]

Not been in the banding world very long at all - only been playing since 1998.... I do it cos i enjoy it.... When I stop enjoying a band, I will leave... Or that is the idea - My band has been through trouble and political infighting like most i care to think about have done at some point. However, I have been presented with the oportunity to leave a number of times to various bands in various areas - and have never have left - now the longest serving member in my band - thats scarey. Lloyalty in bands isnt totally dead, but one day i will leave the band - whether to transfer to another band or to leave banding... and no doubt i will get the "traitor" and "he left us in the lurch" treatment aswell - People are only going to be bothered if they feel that they are losing something or someone worth hanging on to....

Works 2 ways though - i would not leave a band in the lurch...

Am i making any sense? :?

[Soppy]

IMHO = In my honest opinion.

I'm on a lot of different forums, and it's taken me ages to work out all the abbreviations btw. atm, I know most of them, but I think they're good.

The hardest one IMO is lol, which = :lol: !

Lol!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :D :shock: :wink:

Sorry for going OT!

Back to the topic. I think players should give notice before they leave, and shouldn't do it before contests. It's just totally dis-loyal. I'd never walk out before a contest. I'd leave it till the rehersal after!
Of course, if people have a seious problem, they should try and sort it out. Chances are though, if they've already found themselves a band to go to, they don't really care, or have already tried weeks ago and have therefore given pleanty of 'warning'!

[HBB]

IMHO = In my honest opinion.

I'm on a lot of different forums, and it's taken me ages to work out all the abbreviations btw. atm, I know most of them, but I think they're good.

The hardest one IMO is lol, which = :lol: !

Lol!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :D :shock: :wink:

Sorry for going OT!

Back to the topic. I think players should give notice before they leave, and shouldn't do it before contests. It's just totally dis-loyal. I'd never walk out before a contest. I'd leave it till the rehersal after!
Of course, if people have a seious problem, they should try and sort it out. Chances are though, if they've already found themselves a band to go to, they don't really care, or have already tried weeks ago and have therefore given pleanty of 'warning'!


I totally agree about the walking out before a contest. I mean, I wasn't registered to do a contest one year, and I was well dissapointed. So, I, myself wouldn't be able to leave remotely near a contest (I'd have to leave before we'd even started to rehearse it!!)

The only reason that I find totally acceptable is a tragedy. One of our trombonists' son had an accident, and wasn't sure if her son was going to make it. but the fact that she rang up even though she was destrought (:?)(Luckily we had a replacement for the trombone position), to me, showed total loyalty.

We also had a horn player that didn't turn up for 3 months - and she always showed up. We knew vaguely that she was moving, but to just move and not tell anyone anything, i.e. when she was moving. To me, that is just sheer laziness and that people like that shouldn't even come to band if that is their attitude - I can even miss one rehearsal with out sending my apologies!

[Heather]

Hopefully, if you sh ow loyalty to a band then they will show loyalty back to you.
I would hate to be in a band who got rid of you just because a better player came in.
I played for Swinton Concert from the beginning till they got into the 1st section and then left because of cliques in the band that made it unbearable!
I then joined Eagley band and stayed with them for many years. I never ever felt a need to leave as was treated well and thoroughly enjoyed my time there. I only moved from there because of moving to another area.
Now I'm at Crewe and I love it. Its actually provided the best times in all my years of banding and everyone gets on well together, respects each other and has alot of fun!!
Put in a nutshell, it would be hard to be loyal to a band if you weren't enjoying yourself there and what's the point of going somewhere twice a week to be with people you don't enjoy being with and doing something you don't enjoy!

I apologise for the slight(!) overkill of the word 'enjoy'.

[Nat]

its alright if the reason for leaving is new jobs or uni ect but when you leave out of spite or whatever, then you cant call yourself loyal, bieng in a band is like bieng part of a family and you sure as hell wouldn't be happy if someone that you loved from your family told you they didnt love you anymore and made for the road would you?. also you should only play for a band because you want to not because you are getting paid or whatever i would never ever want to be paid to play.

[Aidan]

bieng in a band is like bieng part of a family and you sure as hell wouldn't be happy if someone that you loved from your family told you they didnt love you anymore and made for the road would you?. also you should only play for a band because you want to not because you are getting paid or whatever i would never ever want to be paid to play.
yeah it is like being in a family, but families do have fallouts quite often dont they ;) or is it just mine! and when a fallout happens, bands unfortunately are alot easier to leave than families!! :)
I think the pay of top bands is an attraction, especially to poor students :roll: thats why a lot of my mates at uni are being snapped up by big-name bands, but it isnt all about pay that entices people to play for top bands, its also about the ambitions of the player, and moving to a better band full of better players puts the pressure on yourself to perform to a higher level and keeps you motivated on self-improvement as a player. With some, it is the name that people attracted to. A lot of famous big-name bands can simply have any player they want!

[Nat]

Playing is a hobby and when you start getting paid and moving up to higher section bands you get big headed and your hobby becomes a job, thats when players turn into d**K heads and betray thier friends and bandmates

[TheMusicMan]

Hi nat_rep....

It's obvious to me and probably everyone here Nat that you're an extremely dedicated and loyal bandslady - one that most bands would be delighted to have in their ranks! Forgive me if I'm wrong here, but it also seems to me that you have possibly had a bad experience relating to band loyalty et al.

I think we all at some time have made our share of mistakes, or have perhaps become big-headed when moving on to 'other' bands. There's usually a healthy rivalry when players move on, but sometimes a sense of 'above ones station' comes to mind. I think this is one area where we all have to live and learn, accepting that perhaps one day those who sometimes behave like this will realise that in doing so they hurt people they perhaps don't really want to hurt. :cry:

As long as you're happy in your position, and it gives you, your family and loved ones joy - then 'go make music gal' !!! :D :D :D you're welcome in my band anytime :D :D

John

[PeterBale]

From some of the posts in this thread I sense that there are some who seem to feel that, to move on from a band that you have played with for some time necessarily implies some form of underhand action. As has been said, there are all sorts of reasons why someone may wish to change bands. It may be a question of personality clashes with other members, frustration at feeling unable to fulfil your true potential, or simply the desire to play at a higher standard.

Noone really kicks up a fuss when a sportsman moves on to a higher division side, or when someone changes their job in order to progress in their career. Indeed, there are certain clubs that pride themselves in giving players their first step up the ladder. It can be very frustrating if you feel the musical abilities of those around you are holding you back, even more so if they do not have the same motivation as you do to raise those standards. Many years ago, I played in a band with a very good 2nd euphonium, who realised he was unlikely to progress to the first chair, as the incumbent was a brilliant player himself. When offered the chance to move to another band on bass trombone, he took the opportunity and has never looked back. Others in that same position may have felt that they owed a certain loyalty to their existing band, but it is something everyone must decide for themselves.

I think the most important thing is to avoid unpleasantness when making a move. There is certainly no excuse for leaving a band in the lurch and sufficient notice should be given. There should also be goodwill on behalf of the band and other players, providing everything is done properly - you may have cause to need each other again in the future!

[Aidan]

Playing is a hobby and when you start getting paid and moving up to higher section bands you get big headed and your hobby becomes a job, thats when players turn into d**K heads and betray thier friends and bandmates

It does sound like we've hit a nerve somewhere along the line, so sorry, but... Not all top section bands are big-headed, although i agree there are quite a few big-headed people out there, not all in top sections or top bands tho! Even when you do get paid (for the record, I dont) It can't become a job, just playing or directing a band. Not even the top players (ie. webster, hudson and the like) earn enough for it to be considered a salary worth living off... that is why most top players also balance playing with other jobs such as, teaching (classroom or peripatetic <--cant spell!!) working as a clinician, developing instruments, guest solo appearances and masterclasses. And these people still arnt "loaded"!!

[Heather]

I played for Swinton Concert until they got to the 1st section and then I left.
Looking back it was the best thing I did because once they got up into the Championship section they brought in loads of players from top bands and got rid of the poor folk who had been in the band from the beginning and who had actually got the band to where it was!
Loyalty never even reared its head!
....and the moral of the story is
......we all know what happened to Swinton Concert Brass don't we!!!!

[frisp]

Living on an Island in the Irish Sea, this is a very interesting thread.

Loyalty just isn't an issue with our band (Manx Concert Brass). There's nowhere for people to go and they wouldn't anyway (forgive me MCB players I know I'm very much the newbie). We lose players when they move off the Island for work (hi Dags) or to study ('lo Spock and Kathryn).

All of the ex-players I've just said hello to are now playing in the Championship Section. They all make a point of meeting us when we compete and socialising if they can. One drove up from the South of England, heard us play and got in his car to go back because he had a pratice for the Championship Section the same evening we played.

I know this might seem off-thread but I'm coming from the position of someone who left a band (on a small Island) just before a major concert (because of internal politics)and took some years off before I was offered an opportunity for a seat (thanks Phil for the introduction and Ian for the seat).

I know we're in a fairly unique position (I have no idea how many bands there are on Jersey, picju) but my point is a good organisation, teamwork and real fun engenders loyalty, no matter what.

I know we don't have to worry about good players moving on to a slightly better band just down the road, but equally players who leave have to be replaced from a very small population.

Enjoy your playing, have a really good laugh and don't fuss on the internal political bol~ox and loyalty will be there.

Just my rambling viewpoint, for what it's worth :?

[froggy]

Two of our clarinet players left our band and were soon in another band, although they weren't marching against us. Personally, I couldn't leave to join a different band, even if I wasn't marching against them.

[twigglet]

I believe that if you are with the right band then there will be no debate about loyalty.

Helping other bands out is fine, but for me my priority is always my band, and even when I go to uni in september I know that whenever I come home I will still go to Wem even if I play with someone else at Uni.

But I guess I'm lucky to play for a band that always welcomes ex players to come along for a blow when they are around.

The moral of the story is this:

BE LOYAL TO YOUR BAND AND THEY WILL BE LOYAL TO YOU .......AND BUY YOU DRINKS WHEN YOU GO OUT!

:wink:

[picju96]

I have no idea how many bands there are on Jersey, picju)

There are 2, 1 marching band which doesn't contest, and us, who do (obviously). There's great rivalry between the 2, which is a bad thing really, as they won't even dep for us when we need them to, or lend us instruments or music. There's lots of bitching about either band in the respective pubs after practice on Thursday nights.

[frisp]

I have no idea how many bands there are on Jersey, picju)

There are 2, 1 marching band which doesn't contest, and us, who do (obviously). There's great rivalry between the 2, which is a bad thing really, as they won't even dep for us when we need them to, or lend us instruments or music. There's lots of bitching about either band in the respective pubs after practice on Thursday nights.

There are eight bands on our Island (I sound like something from Braveheart-"I'm the most dangerous man on my Island etc.") and there's huge rivalry here too; no depping etc. either. Must be an Island thing. But, internally, huge loyalty :)

[Raspberry]

This has been a very interesting thread to read. I think the very sad thing of today is certain bands wanting to progress and progress quickly via attracting ex-champ, 1st section players and then asking the weaker players and probably most loyal players to leave because there's no room for them. I have always believed that a band should be able to progress naturally by retaining the existing players, give them help and advise and nuture them to help improve. By doing this then the loyalty would be far stronger should things go slightly pear shaped. I'm sure this subject has been debated in other similar threads! At the end of the day its banding and like others said it is like football I suppose.

[Matthew]

I think the pay of top bands is an attraction, especially to poor students :roll: thats why a lot of my mates at uni are being snapped up by big-name bands...

Pay, what pay's that then?! :P Admittedly some bands offer small amounts of expenses, but whoever heard of a bass player being offered a 'retainer' salary, like some of the Principal Cornet/Euph/Horn players do :) :)

Admittedly, if any player can play in a band and get some expenses back (e.g. for petrol) they are very fortunate, so many bands, and at Championship level just can't afford it.

[Lyndsay]

Also a problem we have on the island, as I am sure alot of younger bands do, is that players get to that age when they either really get into the whole banding thing, or else they leave due to peer pressure etc. Being that we are one of only two bands that compete, we do not have a huge reputation and so when a teen says to his/her mates they play in a brass band, they usually get a bit of stick.

[hornblower]

I think that a lot of us seem to agree on the fact that it is acceptable for folk to leave, but that they should take into account when they go. Big concerts or contests need all the players to put the effort in and be loyal. maybe there should be like in work, a period of notice to be given?

I agree that near contests some of the weaker players can get a rough deal by having "guest" players in who are blatantly better....
:?
However can I just say THANK YOU for all the people who helped us out this year in the contest in Darlo, that was amazing loyalty for our little band, we are very lucky to have so many supporters! :lol:

[Di B]

its alright if the reason for leaving is new jobs or uni ect but when you leave out of spite or whatever, then you cant call yourself loyal, bieng in a band is like bieng part of a family and you sure as hell wouldn't be happy if someone that you loved from your family told you they didnt love you anymore and made for the road would you?. also you should only play for a band because you want to not because you are getting paid or whatever i would never ever want to be paid to play.

So... you cannot leave a band because you have outgrown a band playing wise? Yes, a band is a family, but we all leave home at some point! We still love our family but just can't live under the same roof as them anymore!

It isn't *just* about enjoying your banding, although that is the main thing I believe. Sometimes you need more challenges or need to be pushed harder or the new MD makes your life hell....... you can leave and still see the band as your family. Sometimes a band that you used to enjoy can become a band that is a task... due to the band changing or your own personal circumstances changing.

Leaving a band certainly *never* should be out of spite and I am sorry that they are the only resignations you have come across.

[horn1]

I've played for a number of bands over the past 10 years both top section and lower section. I've never once left a band out of spite but always as I have felt I needed something different (sometimes better not always) from my band at that time. I'm currently playing in the 3rd section after having taken some time out and although I love it and am extremly dedicated to my band (band at least twice a week, I conduct the training band twice a week and am on the commitee) that does not mean I intend to stay there for ever. If and when the right opportunity comes up to further my playing career (or if I'm no longer happy) I'll move on. BUT I'll do everything I can not to leave the band in the lurch.

[Tuba Girl]

This is a difficult topic :roll: :roll:
I played with a band from the age of 12 til I went to college. Although I had been asked to join higher section bands I stayed because I was getting better playing from other bands( NYBBGB NYBBW) and it was close to me meaning I could concentrate on school and exams. It was also a friendly band socially and on a playing level. I have now ended up playing with the same players in a different band and we still have a good time :P :P :P :P

[michellegarbutt]

Hopefully, if you sh ow loyalty to a band then they will show loyalty back to you.
I would hate to be in a band who got rid of you just because a better player came in. '.

It does happen though. I was with my last band for 5 years. I had a 45 minute drive to get there and picked up other players on the way. It was very rare that I missed a practice or contest and did the contest secretary job for 3 years. A few weeks ago I recieved a letter out of the blue saying my membership was terminated and to return my gear. No explaination at all. When I rang up I was told that another player had joined. But I still don't see why this meant I had to be sacked. I had agreed the week before the contest that if we could get a new player I would move down to 2nd baritone and the band could have 2 players on that position (The girl who plays 2nd at the moment does miss quite a lot of practices for her job). This would have strengthened the band a lot. The baritone I was playing on was my own so that wasn't needed for the new player. But how can bands expect you to have loyalty if they treat you like this
_________________

[trischy_traschy]

Post deleted as not relevant

[Okiedokie of Oz]

I have only read the first 2 pages of this, but so far I think everyone's heart's are in the right places with what they believe. Sometime the English language doesn't allow us to realise we are all saying similar things.

I am like a German shepherd (so says some stupid internet test), very loyal and faithful. But there are many types of loyalty, and many things that can stop you from showing how loyal you can be.

I only left my home band when I went to uni. Because of my standard, I was able to get into A grade, and very quickly moved from 3rd EEb Bass to Principal BBb, Principal EEb, 2nd baritone, 1st baritone, 2nd eupho, turned down principal eupho, and bass trombone. I feel very special that Iwas given these places, because I felt like a smartarse, kicking long-standing players out of their seats as I climbed a ladder. I didn't choose to move. I kept in touch with my home band, visited as often as possible, and when I moved back home for work, I came running back. I am greatful for the opportunities Cap Silver gave me, and always help them out whenever possible (hence the casual position on bass trom in the siggy)

My loyalty shone when I first came back to Gladstone. Cap Silver couldnt replace me for State titles, so I stayed with them. I permitted with the Gladdy band. After contest, I resigned from Rocky because Rocky had, or had the potential to have, a full band, whereas Gladstone was running low on players. Both conductors were very understanding, and supported my in my transition.

Loyalty became an issue again, when, due to internal conflicts, we lost 2 conductors in 3 months in Gladstone. We advertissed for a replacement, but noone will move into rural Queensland just for a conducting position. I had just taken over the Junior band. The parents were very impressed with my work and enthusiasm, and asked me to apply for the senior role. I did hesitantly, and got it.

Now, any time through out these two stories, I could've easily said "go jump" to the conductors. But the band needed me to act as I did, so I did. I did, do, and always will put the band over my needs. I mean, if I was to say no to the conducting job, the Gladstone band would've fallen apart, and that's not fair.

Now referring back to original case:
These players leaving, if they left for better playing opportunities, then that's a tad harsh to leave so close to contest. They could've done it earlier, or waited until after contest. But to better yourself isn't totally a bad thing. The slander that has arisen, however, is TOTALLY NOT ON. There comes a time when what you have to give starts running low. YOu need to return something back. I was lucky that I enabled 2 bands to keep functioning. So I've been justly rewarded.

This is all IMHO.

[John Brooks]

Interesting topic. I believe the important thing when deciding to move on is to take great care not to burn any bridges. Give appropriate notice and, even when you're leaving for negative reasons, do all you can to keep that to yourself. I know that's not always achievable but it's well worth striving for.

I'm sure many people react emotionally and out of disappointment when they learn that a colleague has decided to move on. Some even feel betrayed. These are all justifiable reactions but are better controlled than posted on the internet in the heat of the moment.

I have compiled what I believe to be some fine examples of loyalty and consistency: Peter Roberts - Grimethorpe and YBS; Ron Harrison; Robert Foster; Roland and Stephen Cobb; Derick Kane; Kevin Ashman; Will Jenkins; Josh Walford; Ray Bowes; Bernard Adams; and many more with the ISB. Perhaps that's the start of another thread!

[Brian Bowen]

I have compiled what I believe to be some fine examples of loyalty and consistency: Peter Roberts - Grimethorpe and YBS; Ron Harrison; Robert Foster; Roland and Stephen Cobb; Derick Kane; Kevin Ashman; Will Jenkins; Josh Walford; Ray Bowes; Bernard Adams; and many more with the ISB. Perhaps that's the start of another thread!

Membership of the ISB is unique. Loyalty, based on a proven track record at corps level, is a prerequisite to membership. Maybe John Brooks has particularly in mind longevity. There is no doubt that many members of the ISB, both past and present, have served for extraordinarily long periods. Factor in the SA requirement for ISB members to be committed to a corps section also, then those achievements are impressive indeed. But isn't there a higher (or if you prefer, different) incentive to banding in the SA? Ultimately it's a belief one is serving God. The Creator requires different things of different people and unselfish musicians may rightly feel their God-given skills are best used elsewhere and not necessarily for long periods.

[yorkshirepuddin]

I agree that there isnt really a good time to leave a band, and it can cause hostility between the player who has left and the band members, particularly the players who are close.
I left a band ( who i shall not name) when i went to university, but because i did leave to go to a uni relatively close by, because they asked me to i said i would play and come back for rehersals at the weekend on the run up to Pontins. However, with it being my first year at uni, and other commitments i had, i thought it was unfair on the band for me to play in the contest without going to many of the rehersals, especially when there were other players who were good enough and couldn't play due to the limits in numbers. So i suggested that i didnt play to give another player, who had been to all the rehersals, a chance to go and play in the contest that they had worked hard for. And i will add, this decision was not made lightly and the decision was made in good time, not like i pulled out at the last minute, then i would understand their behaviour.

I did go to Pontins to support the band, only to be greeted by forced smiles and cold shoulders, especially from the people who i considered to be my friends, so i didnt go back.

I recently moved back home to commute to uni and have got into playing again, and went along to rehersals of my old band, only to find nothing had changed, and i found the rehersals and concerts very uncomfortable, so i havent been back, which i think is a shame because the time i did play for the band, i throughly enjoyed.

[Dave Euph]

I've never experienced anything like hostility from bands, mainly because the band I am playing with currently is the first competing band I have played with. Although I'd understand if they were a little cold with me recently because of missing a few rehearsals recently due to heavy uni commitments.

However, in the past I've played with non-competing and youth bands so where really it is a case that people will eventually move on anyway and that that will pose no problems. I recently got in touch with the conductor of my old band asking about their proposed tour next year and if there were any Christmas jobs I could help out at when I got back home. He was very pleased to hear from me.

Also, however, I have told my current band that I am fully prepared to play with them up to the Areas. After that though, I can't guarantee how long I'll be around with them, so I'm taking friend's advice on that when it comes to it, leaving them on the most favourable terms possible.

[John Brooks]

Brian Bowen wrote: Maybe John Brooks has particularly in mind longevity.

I agree Brian that I illustrated longevity, which is defined as 'long life', and the players listed certainly were good examples of that too. But I had more in mind than that. To be loyal, one must have a firm allegiance to a cause. For some that cause is 'the band', while for others it is a 'Calling' to both a spiritual experience and a band, with the band being one outlet for the experience. I imagine it is possible to achieve longevity without loyalty but I don't see that as being a very pleasant experience. The unfortunate reality of our society today is that we see less and less of either. In banding, sports and many other aspects of life, your favourite team player is suddenly found playing for the 'other side' and we, who are loyal to our favourite band/team feel a sense of betrayal. I think personally I'm looking for consistency and there's precious little of that to be found.

No I'd better get off my soap box;sorry for sounding so melancholy. Now if only Cyberjam was playing in Toronto I could take my wife out tonight and all would be resolved! :dunno [/quote]

[missflugel]

As I am one of the players that sparked this thread I only think it fair that I have my say.

When I left the band that wonky is referring to it was for purely playing reasons. I am a flugel player and wanted the chance to play Flugel again after having played cornet after moving to the north east to go to university.

Players leave bands to go to either better bands or to sit on a seat that wasnt available in their old band. It isnt always a reflection of that persons' loyalty to the band or indeed a reflection of their loyalty to brass bands in general but is more of a personal aspect of playing.

We all want to be the best players that we can be and if we arent acheiving that in the band we are in and another option is given to you then you should not be subject to ridicule from the band you leave. They should be pleased for you, after all it is a refelction of their band that you are taking on to your new one.

Jo

[Naomi McFadyen]

Whenever I'm home from uni I still play with my previous bands, and, as always, will dep for anyone if I'm asked and am free...

In fact, I'm playing with Soundhouse Brass tonight, in the cold, on cornet... :D better get ready!

:wink: