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Di
30.09.2008, 10:30
Discussion thread for the Regionals 2009
Fourth Section Test Piece

The Talisman for Brass Band
Frank Hughes

:)

Quaver
30.09.2008, 12:38
Here goes, I'll kick it off.

Overall a great piece for a test piece, (I have only "heard" the scorch version) but reading the score I think it is challenging in its exposure and demand for the usual second parts.

Having read as much as I can about the piece (I was always taught to paint a picture for the audience) I can see the nocturne, as plain song. I can see the battle with the devastation, those lovely chords in the center. But I'm struggling with the 1st movement. I sort of see the politics and constant changing allegiances potrayed by the rhythmic and time sig changes but not a lot more.

Anyway I hope we don't see a small entry as I feel this will be a great challenge.

One point in ref to their comments about 4BR 0 please be a lot more positive about us bottom of the barrel bands - the vast majority really are here for the fun and friendship. Either at the end of a playing carreer or the start or maybe just too busy with home and work to commit to a more demanding practice schedule.

euphalogy
30.09.2008, 15:40
On first hearing it appears to be a little cracker, and 2,3,4,5,6,78,9, 10 jack queen king hearing it definately appears to be a cracker, and should ensure that the "best" (allround) band progress.
I think the Eb Bass players will think they have the Euphonium part!! No long dangerous solos to contend with, deep sonorous chords minor to major, and some nifty reading and competence required throughout.
Changing moods, unison deep long notes, an excellent choice indeed i think.
:clap:

A

Nigel Hall
30.09.2008, 17:43
On first hearing it appears to be a little cracker, and 2,3,4,5,6,78,9, 10 jack queen king hearing it definately appears to be a cracker, and should ensure that the "best" (allround) band progress.
I think the Eb Bass players will think they have the Euphonium part!! No long dangerous solos to contend with, deep sonorous chords minor to major, and some nifty reading and competence required throughout.
Changing moods, unison deep long notes, an excellent choice indeed i think.
:clap:

A

Thanks for the positive comments, I'm sure bands will enjoy the piece when they get working on it and I agree about the Eb Bass part - I'm not looking forward to the deep resentment that my own Eb Basses are going to harbour once they see the part (which will be tonight), It will certainly challenge most 4th section bands (I had originally thought it would be suitable for 3rd section - but I'm only a conductor and publisher, what do I know!!!).

EbEwan
30.09.2008, 20:16
It certainly seems on first "hearing" (again only the Scorch file) to be an interesting piece and one that will stretch a lot of 4th Section bands.

I'm actually looking forward to the Eb bass part this year (unlike last year). I get the feeling that "poor tuning" is going to be appearing on a lot of adjudication notes' but then I suppose that that is where the good MDs will earn their salt and get those issues out of the way before the day (as much as they can here in the 4th Section anyway).

I also agree with Quaver that a lot of the "second" parts look challenging, I can imagine a lot of conductors shifting some of the 2nd baritone onto a euph for instance.

I do like it though, and any band that nails it and wins through to Harrogate will not be extremely satisfied but also probably well on the way to promotion if they haven't gained it already.

Masterblaster jnr
30.09.2008, 20:51
Looks hard for 4th. Jumps from e to top b flat etc and pretty fast semiquaver runs on the troms. ouch

HaleStorm
01.10.2008, 10:00
Having listened to the recording on the regionals CD, it sounds good, i think it will be a bit much for quite a few bands, the trom part is a bit frightning, and the bass part is crazy. I have not as yet had a look at the scorch file to see what my parts going to be like but i hope its fun to play and not horrible and rubbish like last years piece

Andy_Euph
01.10.2008, 11:16
I also agree with Quaver that a lot of the "second" parts look challenging, I can imagine a lot of conductors shifting some of the 2nd baritone onto a euph for instance.


Yeah I picked that up too, I just wonder how many conductors have the bottle and belief to go with there bari and trom players and not give everything to the euph!!

This piece smacks of a well constructed, typical oldie brass band piece....which should mean banders will love it!:D I agree with everyone else that its going to be difficult to pull off...cluster chords, sparse scoring and a Ball/Gregson type last movement, I think we could see a nation wide bout of insomnia between xmas and march :biggrin:

alks
01.10.2008, 20:17
Certainly looks a lot harder than the pieces we have had from the last few years and from listening to it i think a much harder test. It also feels to be more energitic. As quaver said tall the parts seam to have something to do with even the 3rd cornets having some exposed parts. Some parts seam to come in on top A's from nowhere so perhaps a lot more split notes on the day?

alks

woolly
02.10.2008, 22:07
A great choice

On first look not the usual fayre of nice tunes.....

It will only be my second Area waving the stick but I am really looking forward to taking the band on this one (whether they will be is another thing all together!!)

Irrespective of the eventual results I am sure this will be one to remember and as with last year I am sure the best bands will win.(as was proven by the national result - Well done the North West bands)..

brassbandmaestro
02.10.2008, 22:20
Would people, me not having it yet(!), say, could be too difficult for the average 4th section band to play?

Daisy Duck
03.10.2008, 09:57
Would people, me not having it yet(!), say, could be too difficult for the average 4th section band to play?

I play for a 4th section band, but I'd like to think we're quite a strong 4th section band - sitting joint 6th in the LSC grading table.

I don't think it looks too difficult for our band - but it is certainly a piece we are going to have work at technically, a good challenge I think.

Everyone in the band is going to have to practise - there's nowhere to hide, even the 3rd cornets are exposed at some points. I'm looking forward to it, although we won't start proper rehearsals until after Christmas.

alks
03.10.2008, 12:16
Just in case its needed on this thread here's the direct link to the scorch version so people can look at the score and have a listen. (so can just refer to first page of this thread to find link in future)

http://www.mmi-music.co.uk/Scorch/60903TheTalisman.htm

alks

Quaver
04.10.2008, 16:04
As I kicked it off, maybe I can be allowed to start a debate within the thread.

Most comments ackowledge the exposure of the normally sheltered parts (eg 2nd Cnt, Bari, Horn) and a suggeststion that MDs may move the part to a "safer" pair of hands (lips).

SO - why not have open adjudication just to see who (which bum on which seat) plays what!

I know - but just humour me and see what people think.

ian perks
04.10.2008, 19:21
Yep this piece is making me think

dyl
04.10.2008, 22:21
Yep this piece is making me think

At last!

Huge thanks to the powers that be that chose this piece. :clap:

TheFopp
06.10.2008, 11:27
This could be a very interesting and tough challenge for many fourth section bands. You can certainly see and hear the pieces roots as a quartet in the harmony and scoring all this unison between parts is going to really stretch some bands playing and ears. Nice mix of the old and new (old style melodies and many time signatures). Bands will definately need to get working on their unison playing before tackling this I think.

madandcrazytromboneguy
07.10.2008, 02:28
challenging trombone part you guys say, WELL THANK GOD, AT LAST! :D

hopefully this will keep me interested for the up and coming area, the last few trombone parts ive played for area contests have been DIRE!, ok maybe dsotm had some of the melody but it was still an average part

huddersfield and ripponden brass ensemble will have a slightly different team to the 1 of this years area but i think it will be a strong 1 for next years yorkshire 4th section and we are focusing hard to make sure we come straight back up, not an easy task, but certainly doable!

Martin
09.10.2008, 09:08
:) Have listened to this piece several times now, since getting the CD. I think it is great. I agree with other posts, though, that it is not going to be easy to master. But isn't that what contesting is about. Really looking forward to playing it. Nice one.:clap:

MrBb
09.10.2008, 23:23
Just listened to the Scorch link in the previuos page. Nothing realy in it for solo cornet which is a real shame and no decent solo to get your teath into :-( Seems like a lot for bottom end (Eb Bass OMG)! cornets just doing lots of quavers on one note. Might have to swap the cornet just to play an interesting part as there's nothing in the Solo cornet line at all. It just sounds like any other moderen test peice, wish they'd use some of the older ones, either that or Sibelius doesn't do i credit.

halsasaurus
10.10.2008, 01:29
Good idea. Let every player stand tall!

halsasaurus
10.10.2008, 01:39
All contests should have open adjudication nowadays. The available technology makes a mockery of sitting in a tent with a bucket of sand and expecting to convince the masses to believe that you have been cut off from all existance for the past two or three hours.
Stand up like the grown men/women you are.

Andy_Euph
10.10.2008, 11:29
After having a blow through my part i've realised i'm going to have to practise my tounging ;), can't be too lazy on this piece if we play it at the right tempos. Obviously this is going to be a major challenge for the majority of bands, safety first is perhaps the wisest option when performing this piece, seeing as not even Cory got through it without losing a bit of Templar armour :p

Rob'n'Lis
11.10.2008, 12:22
Just in case its needed on this thread here's the direct link to the scorch version so people can look at the score and have a listen. (so can just refer to first page of this thread to find link in future)

http://www.mmi-music.co.uk/Scorch/60903TheTalisman.htm

alks

Thanks alks. We've listened to the scorch. Now we're scared! :eek: But not terrified. Looking forward to actually starting practice.

superjobby
11.10.2008, 12:53
Woohoo! Something to get our teeth into!

If you want a laugh, try listening to it on Sibelius. The 1st movement sounds like a particularly menacing Mario tune on the SNES. Until recently this is the only way I had heard it!

Having heard the actual piece now, I have to say, I love it. Might not be around to actually play it if career plan goes to, well, plan, which is a shame.

boogaloo
11.10.2008, 16:00
It's about time the fourth section had something musical to play at the area, a piece of music that will ont only challenge the corner people, but will also test intonation, balance and dynamics, the thing that the fourth seciton needs to work on.

BRAVO, good choice and more of the same.

brassbandmaestro
12.10.2008, 11:45
Open adjudication will never happen at 'The nationals'. I wish it would but there we go!!

Daisy Duck
12.10.2008, 18:36
Just listened to the Scorch link in the previuos page. Nothing realy in it for solo cornet which is a real shame and no decent solo to get your teath into :-( Seems like a lot for bottom end (Eb Bass OMG)! cornets just doing lots of quavers on one note. Might have to swap the cornet just to play an interesting part as there's nothing in the Solo cornet line at all. It just sounds like any other moderen test peice, wish they'd use some of the older ones, either that or Sibelius doesn't do i credit.

I thought the same thing when I looked at the Scorch version, but when you get the actual score and parts, most of the 2nd movement is a solo for cornet, so there's plenty to do. On the Scorch version, it isn't marked as a solo.

madandcrazytromboneguy
13.10.2008, 02:16
just hada listen to the scorch thing, theres 1 key element which should throw a lot of bands when they start to rehearse the piece

COUNTING!

the counting involved will play havoc when you 1st come to play the piece, it looks horrendous

the c to c octve drop on 1st trom seems pretty quick, altho hose semiquaver runs dont seem to hard really, interesting to see all 3 trombone parts being used individually rather than in harmony all the time

im interested to see how it sounds in its 1st rehearsal now

towse1972
13.10.2008, 02:51
say again, without beer!:clap:

Nigel Hall
13.10.2008, 08:09
I thought the same thing when I looked at the Scorch version, but when you get the actual score and parts, most of the 2nd movement is a solo for cornet, so there's plenty to do. On the Scorch version, it isn't marked as a solo.

You are quite right Daisy Duck, it should be marked as a solo on the scorch version and that's a tiny slapped wrist for Nigel :biggrin:.

tweir
18.10.2008, 13:03
Who on earth thought that The Talisman is a suitable 4th Section Test Piece? And who on earth would think that having this would promote the brass band movement and increase membership at ground levels? I definately foresee that the number of bands competing being way down next year!

Whoever decided on this piece most certainly has forgotten that the vast majority of 'true' 4th section bands has a large percentage of members who are still at school and are at the beginning of their 'brass band' lifetime, and to pick a piece with this difficulty and awkwadrness, besides being awful to listen to, will do nothing to assist the growing number of bands which are struggling to find and retain players, and promote all that is good about brass music!

For those who have not seen or heard this piece, an idea of the complexity which is more suitable to maybe 2nd Section and above is going from bars 53 to 65, the time signature changes every bar from 8/8 - 9/8 - 8/8 - 9/8 - 8/8 - 9/8 - 12/8 - 6/8 - 12/8 - 9/8 - 12/8 - 9/8 which is all at allegro with a bit of Furioso thrown in!!

Someone has most definatelt lost the plot!!!

Errol
18.10.2008, 14:42
I totally disagree , imho this is one of the best test piece selections for the fourth section I have seen in years, unlike last years selection which made the contest a total lottery. The area contest is a qualifying event for the national championships and the choice of piece should reflect this. If bands cannot play the piece then they have two alternatives, either practice or don't enter the contest. I would much prefer to spend 6 weeks or so rehearsing challenging, difficult music than have 6 weeks of boredom on pieces like Four Cities C**p.

Anno Draconis
18.10.2008, 16:00
who on earth would think that having this would promote the brass band movement and increase membership at ground levels?

Since when is that the responsibility of the Regional Championships? The point of the regionals are to select the best bands in each area for the finals. Nothing else. It's the responsibility of individual bands to "increase membership".


Whoever decided on this piece most certainly has forgotten that the vast majority of 'true' 4th section bands has a large percentage of members who are still at school and are at the beginning of their 'brass band' lifetime,

Says who? Do you have some statistics to back up this remarkable generalisation? In any case, my experience is that younger players are much more flexible about new pieces and complex time signatures. Maybe you think we should all play Eric Ball's Divertimento every year?


and to pick a piece with this difficulty and awkwadrness, ... will do nothing to ... promote all that is good about brass music!

In your opinion. I respectfully disagree; I think the standard of playing in the 4th section after next year's areas will be 10-15% better across the board, and 30-40% better in some bands, as a result of the work done to get this piece up to performance standard. Plus, it's listenable without being "easy listening".


I would much prefer to spend 6 weeks or so rehearsing challenging, difficult music than have 6 weeks of boredom on pieces like Four Cities C**p.

Glad you feel that way; rehearsals start after Pontins ;)

(I'm joking - you hope......)

Errol
18.10.2008, 18:39
Since when is that the responsibility of the Regional Championships? The point of the regionals are to select the best bands in each area for the finals. Nothing else. It's the responsibility of individual bands to "increase membership".



Says who? Do you have some statistics to back up this remarkable generalisation? In any case, my experience is that younger players are much more flexible about new pieces and complex time signatures. Maybe you think we should all play Eric Ball's Divertimento every year?



In your opinion. I respectfully disagree; I think the standard of playing in the 4th section after next year's areas will be 10-15% better across the board, and 30-40% better in some bands, as a result of the work done to get this piece up to performance standard. Plus, it's listenable without being "easy listening".



Glad you feel that way; rehearsals start after Pontins ;)

(I'm joking - you hope......)

:clap::clap::clap:
(Can't wait !):D

nigeb12
18.10.2008, 21:14
Quote:
Originally Posted by tweir http://www.themouthpiece.com/vb/webchat/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.themouthpiece.com/vb/showthread.php?p=630303#post630303)
Whoever decided on this piece most certainly has forgotten that the vast majority of 'true' 4th section bands has a large percentage of members who are still at school and are at the beginning of their 'brass band' lifetime,

Says who? Do you have some statistics to back up this remarkable generalisation? In any case, my experience is that younger players are much more flexible about new pieces and complex time signatures. Maybe you think we should all play Eric Ball's Divertimento every year?


Quote:
Originally Posted by tweir http://www.themouthpiece.com/vb/webchat/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.themouthpiece.com/vb/showthread.php?p=630303#post630303)
and to pick a piece with this difficulty and awkwadrness, ... will do nothing to ... promote all that is good about brass music!

In your opinion. I respectfully disagree; I think the standard of playing in the 4th section after next year's areas will be 10-15% better across the board, and 30-40% better in some bands, as a result of the work done to get this piece up to performance standard. Plus, it's listenable without being "easy listening".

Just wondering where your statistics are coming from??

PeterBale
19.10.2008, 00:22
Says who? Do you have some statistics to back up this remarkable generalisation? In any case, my experience is that younger players are much more flexible about new pieces and complex time signatures. Maybe you think we should all play Eric Ball's Divertimento every year?

I'd certainly endorse that: I recall playing one particular piece with a senior band,which had tremendous problems getting the rhythms sorted out, then playing it later with a junior band who more or less sailed through it - with no preconceptions or hang-ups at seeing unusual time signatures they just knuckled down and played what they saw on the page ;)

brassbandmaestro
19.10.2008, 09:17
I would say that it could be the pscycology involved between the adult bands and the juniors. Juniors always seem to be less inhibited and have more confidence. yhet dont feel undaunted by task ahead of them

nigeb12
19.10.2008, 11:53
Just like to say that it's not my quote. I was qouting a previous post

Cornet Nev.
19.10.2008, 13:38
All fourth section bands cannot be lumped under one heading, they are all different in their make up from each other. There may well be some that are made up of a large number of younger players, there are those like ours, a very mixed group. I can only say our band has players of notable worth down to inexperienced folk such as myself having taken up cornet late in life, there is also a wide range of ages in the band. Then there are those bands made up of early to middle age folk all of which have many years of playing experience, but for various reasons are a fourth section band.
This piece of music is hard enough to test every player in all of the bands that take it on, and in my case will be extremely hard work in places for me to get a grip of it, so I expect that to be true for other late comers such as myself. Even the more experienced in our band have remarked about the difficulty of certain sections for us second and third cornet back row players. However we are not as yet planning to drop out of the contest, and will certainly give it a good hard try.

Martin
19.10.2008, 13:39
For those who have not seen or heard this piece, an idea of the complexity which is more suitable to maybe 2nd Section and above is going from bars 53 to 65, the time signature changes every bar from 8/8 - 9/8 - 8/8 - 9/8 - 8/8 - 9/8 - 12/8 - 6/8 - 12/8 - 9/8 - 12/8 - 9/8 which is all at allegro with a bit of Furioso thrown in!!

Someone has most definatelt lost the plot!!!

But, for the purpose of practice, can these not be equated to pretty standard tme signatures (8/8 - 4/4 in quavers; 9/8 - 3/4 in quaver triplets; 12/8 - 4/4 in quaver triplets). I would expect music for the 2nd Section and above, to include less even time signatures (ie. 5/8; 7/8 etc and worse).

I'm not saying for one moment that this test piece is going to be easy and we are all going to have to work hard at it (I have discussed this with members of my band). However, with structured home practice (yes, I know this is a swear word to a lot of us), experienced players assisting the not so experienced and younger players (the 4th section does have many experienced players who are capable of playing at a higher level but, for work and personal reasons, can't commit the time and effort needed to be in a higher section band), the skill and direction of our respective MDs and some good old fashioned team work, surely, this is not insurmountable.

I think that this piece, whilst containing its difficulties, is very musical and descriptive and those people who put the effort in will, IMHO, come out the other end better musicians. Isn't that one of the reasons we contest.

I totally agree, nobody enters a contest to deliberately come last. However, isn't the taking part just as important. Regardless of whether we win or lose, I feel this sort of music with its not so unusual time signatures can be used to encourage our younger and less experienced players to try and improve. Even if a performance is not to the liking of the adjudicator, if a persons playing has improved in the process we should, IMHO, see that as a positive thing and not look at it with defeatist eyes.:)

PeterBale
19.10.2008, 23:29
Just like to say that it's not my quote. I was qouting a previous post

Sorry - my mistake (now edited :oops:)

Brian
23.10.2008, 14:43
I remember some years ago talking to an eminent adjudicator about the "Area" Test Pieces, what he said was:
"In an ideal piece the top 3 or 4 bands will be able to play to a good standard; after that a vast proportion of the bands will make a reasonable attempt of it in varying degrees of success, followed by some who will struggle"
That is what the Area "TEST PIECE" should be designed to do, and looking at this music, it appears to fit those criteria. I congratulate the Music Panel on their choice.
This contest selects the best Regional Bands to represent "Your" Area at the National Finals, and grade the Area Bands accordingly.

boogaloo
23.10.2008, 23:02
I couldn't agree more, but what if you don't have the luxury of these elusive "experienced players", are them unfortunate bands doomed, i hope not!
but good point.

Martin
24.10.2008, 10:08
I couldn't agree more, but what if you don't have the luxury of these elusive "experienced players", are them unfortunate bands doomed, i hope not!
but good point.

I hope not too!:)

Maybe I used the wrong analogy. I didn't mean for it to sound that it should only be higher section capable players who should help out. Surely every band has it's members who have been around for a while, who could assist the younger or less experienced members.

Apologies if I misled, but thanks for supporting my general point of having a positive attitude.:tup

mikelyons
26.10.2008, 13:16
I am amazed that anyone could complain about this piece, given some of the tripe you have had to put up with for a number of years. This is not only a good test of many of the often neglected sections of the band, but it is very listenable-to. I'm sure the audience will not be falling asleep during any of the performances - and neither will the band! I think it would be a shame if MDs moved parts onto different instruments. Frank can balance a chord like nobody else I have ever come across and he takes into account all the sound properties of each instrument taking part in the chord. Changing instruments will, in most cases, completely alter his delicate balance.

I must admit to a bias here, in that I had lessons from Frank Hughes and I think he is an amazing and much under-appreciated composer.

eupho1
26.10.2008, 15:30
hi dave, how u doing, dont know if you remember me steve

nomperism
20.11.2008, 14:11
Well I play Flugel and to be honest my part hardly stretches me apart from the run starting on a top A and the top Ab in the 3rd movement. The rest of it is pretty easy.

I personally feel sorry for the 2nd horn who is not being stretched in any way shape or form, just getting bored waiting for the 2nd movement to be over so they can play a note again.

TheFopp
21.11.2008, 10:43
Are there any Errata out for The Talisman yet? We have a found a few points that we would like to query.

From the 1st Movement.

Bar 32 (Con Anima)
Bass Trombone + Euph - Shouldn't they drop to p with the other accompanying parts?

Bar 52
1+2 Troms, 1 bari, solo horn, flugel, rep, solo cornets, sop - should the first beat of the bar have an accent on it as it is tied over from the previous bar. Should this be re-tongued? Should that beat just be stressed with air? or should it be there at all?

Bar 83
1st horn + 1st trombone entry - What dynamic should they be. Everyone else is pretty much p but horn and trom have no marking. Previous entry was ff with a diminuendo but no marking to show how quiet to go.

These are what I can remember from last nights rehearsal.... probably more where these came from!

Timpking
27.11.2008, 13:27
[quote=TheFopp;637005]Are there any Errata out for The Talisman yet? We have a found a few points that we would like to query.[quote]

We have found errors on the score mainly the same as yours I think. It's pretty poor really.

I hope lots of people bombard the publishers (who I have never heard of before) with questions regarding the piece.

Lets hope the errata comes out sooner rather than later and the publishers send a copy to every band. Seeing as how much money they are making it's the least they can do.

We can only hope!!!

Nigel Hall
27.11.2008, 21:05
[quote=TheFopp;637005]Are there any Errata out for The Talisman yet? We have a found a few points that we would like to query.[quote]

We have found errors on the score mainly the same as yours I think. It's pretty poor really.

I hope lots of people bombard the publishers (who I have never heard of before) with questions regarding the piece.

Lets hope the errata comes out sooner rather than later and the publishers send a copy to every band. Seeing as how much money they are making it's the least they can do.

We can only hope!!!

Right, let me answer these questions for you, although maybe a less hostile tone would have been better.

I am currently checking the queries raised by Adrian (TheFopp) with Frank Hughes and as soon as I have a definitive answer I will post the answers on here, on our website, on 4BR and to Kapitol hopefully within the next seven days. I can say that there no wrong notes within the piece and any missing dynamics will be down to me as I typeset the piece.

As for how much money we make, it certainly isn't as much as you may think - there is the cost of producing over 100 sets and paying the composer his dues. You may have noticed that ours is the cheapest price of all the five area pieces, this I decided to do because it is for the 4th section (not always the wealthiest of bands - I could have raised the price by another 10, but that is not the way we do business) and finally if you ordered your set directly from us you would have noticed that we charged 1.25 for P&P when the true cost of the postage alone was 1.53 without the cost of padded envelopes.

As for bombarding us, so far Adrian is the only one who has raised an issue and I replied straight away by PM saying that I would check these with Frank and get back to him. As for who MMI Music is, we have been publishing since 2001 and more information can be gleaned from our website www.mmi-music.co.uk (http://www.mmi-music.co.uk)

I will add finally that if anyone has any queries regarding The Talisman then either PM me here (as Adrian did after posting above) or call and leave a message on 01280 700000 and I will be willing to answer any questions.

mikelyons
28.11.2008, 07:41
I hope lots of people bombard the publishers (who I have never heard of before) with questions regarding the piece.
Lets hope the errata comes out sooner rather than later and the publishers send a copy to every band. Seeing as how much money they are making it's the least they can do.


In defence of MMI, I have been with them for several years now and, as a composer, I think Nigel is wonderful (if occasionally a little slow ;))

I know Frank writes all his scores by hand, so Nigel has to hand enter them into Sibelius. As MMI is a small company, they don't have quite the same level of resources as someone like Smith & Co or Novello who produce scores with far more mistakes and who often never bother to correct those mistakes even after 40 years! (Remember Carnival?)

As you can see from Nigel's response above, he is happy to try to sort out problems quickly. You could even try speaking to him on the phone or via email as he is a lovely man who is willing to bend over backwards to help. Try doing that with the big companies. They would just ignore you - as the nasty tone of your post would indicate you deserve.

Timpking
28.11.2008, 12:19
Thanks for the swift responce. Maybe my tone a was little hostile, however when you purchase something you expect it to be correct or work with as little hassle as possible for the customer. (If I purchased a cook book I would expect the recipes to be correct!!)

I saw the score for the first time on Monday and spotted some of the above errors straight away. Now surley when the piece was recorded for the regioanls CD these and maybe other errors were noted and maybe been sorted a little sooner. Or maybe a glance down each page by someone would have brought attention to some of the errors.

Maybe when more bands start to work on the piece after christmas MMI may be bombarded with queries so hopefully myself, The Fopp and anyone esle out there will have helped your company in some way. Each band should be sent an errata from whoever they purchased the piece from.

As for the piece itself I think it's an excellent choice and certainly a test and I'm really looking forward to working on it.

I wish MMI music all the very best and I do think it's good to see new up and coming publishers.

Martin
28.11.2008, 13:49
As MMI is a small company,


And Nigel holds down a day job.

Like Mike, I have been with MMI for a few years after I first met Nigel at the Aylesbury contest (sadly, no longer an event) just as he was starting out. He gave me the break I was looking for, after all the 'Big Boys' just ignored me. I'm still waiting for one of them to get back to me with copyright permission.............. over 10 years ago (yes, I have given up).

Whilst I appreciate that everyone expects (and deserves) value for money, we should also be prepared to make allowances for the smaller people, who do this sort of thing along side other responsibilities but, who are trying to give us ordinary bands people a lift up.

Knowing Nigel, any points highlighted will be quickly remedied.:)

madandcrazytromboneguy
05.12.2008, 18:12
on this rare occasion, i'd like to be proved wrong, but ive a feeling the yorkshire 4th sections going to have this kind of look to it:

1, possibly 2 bands make a good performance of it

a handful of bands will turn up just to avoid getting maximum points against their score, no matter how well they can play the piece

some bands will drop out coz the piece is too hard for them

how are you MD's going to go about the fact that theres so many parts doubled up through the piece due to it being a former small group piece?

having practiced my part heavily when we 1st got it out, I dont find it hard to play now, what I do find hard is fitting my part in with all the other parts who have the same as me, it just isnt fitting coz we aint counting the same or playing to a balance etc, THIS is what wil need the work on in rehearsal, even the counting side of things is getting easier (ish) lol

kristen63
10.12.2008, 09:48
Hi

My band will play The Talisman .

Does any of you know where we can buy a recording of it? A CD recording was mentioned earlier in this thread...

Thank you


Kristen
Skeie Glad Brass

Martin
10.12.2008, 10:11
Hi

My band will play The Talisman .

Does any of you know where we can buy a recording of it? A CD recording was mentioned earlier in this thread...

Thank you


Kristen
Skeie Glad Brass

It is on the, 'Regionals 2009' CD, produced by Doyen and available from, 'www.worldofbrass.com' (amongst others).

Hope you enjoy it and good luck with your contest.:)

Martin

kristen63
10.12.2008, 10:21
Thank you very much Martin!

Kristen

Nigel Hall
10.12.2008, 15:46
Hi

My band will play The Talisman.

Does any of you know where we can buy a recording of it? A CD recording was mentioned earlier in this thread...

Thank you


Kristen
Skeie Glad Brass

Hi Kristen

Good to see that The Talisman has already travelled outside the UK. Good luck on 4th February, please remember to let us know how you got on.

Lezuls
10.12.2008, 17:17
[
I personally feel sorry for the 2nd horn who is not being stretched in any way shape or form, just getting bored waiting for the 2nd movement to be over so they can play a note again.[/quote]


:cool: I play 2nd Horn and am looking forward to playing what little notes I have to play. Then all that counting while listening around the band to the piece.
It will be a challange in its own way as I have to count and stay awake, while all those soothing in tune notes go on around me. he he.:biggrin:

kristen63
10.12.2008, 23:50
Hi Kristen

Good to see that The Talisman has already travelled outside the UK. Good luck on 4th February, please remember to let us know how you got on.

Hi Nigel

Thanks, we are really looking forward to play The Talisman and will keep you posted.

Kristen

kristen63
11.12.2008, 09:18
Nice to se the moderators taking swift action when my posts disclosed which own choice piece my band will play in a particular contest.

Now, the event in question has open adjudication (in the lower sections) so no secrecy needed, but anyway I appreciate that the moderation was done to protect the integrity of the contest.

:)

Kristen

E flat fred
19.12.2008, 12:39
I am still awaiting the reply that was promised on 27th Nov. within7 days of the alledged mistakes with Talisman. I might have missed them or have they been posted on a different site

Nigel Hall
19.12.2008, 15:44
Apologies to all for the delay, but the real job has got in the way for the last week or so.

With regards to queries posted earlier regarding Movement 1:-

Bar 32 (Con anima) Bass Trombone, Euphonium and Bass Drum all marked at p

Bar 52 Sop, Solo Cornet, Rep, Flugel, Solo Horn, 1 Bari, 1/2 Trom - the accent on the second of the tied notes (bar before the 8/8 poco meno mosso) is an error - the note should not be re-emphasised

Bar 83 Flugel. 1st Horn and 1st Trom should be at p . If fact all instruments are at p between E and Bar 85

thatbassplayer
30.12.2008, 06:40
On first hearing it appears to be a little cracker, and 2,3,4,5,6,78,9, 10 jack queen king hearing it definately appears to be a cracker, and should ensure that the "best" (allround) band progress.
I think the Eb Bass players will think they have the Euphonium part!! No long dangerous solos to contend with, deep sonorous chords minor to major, and some nifty reading and competence required throughout.
Changing moods, unison deep long notes, an excellent choice indeed i think.
:clap:

A


im playin the eflat bass part with corus band. Recently had a look at the talisman and thought it was a cracking part but yeah it was really high. overall it was a really good piece which expresses each part of the band.:clap:

Band_Beefcake
04.01.2009, 23:40
Hi,

Thought I add my two penneth!

From the score work I have done so far and listening to the recording, I have to say, fantastic piece. Certainly a challenge for the 4th section but something that the bands can certainly get their teeth into and enjoy rehearsing/performing. Great selection for us to play and am really looking forward to it

Cheers

Baton twirler
06.01.2009, 01:04
On playing through The Talisman at band tonight (5th January) I noticed the following possible errors on the score and parts. Could you please check them and inform us if my findings are correct. This is not "having a go" at anyone by the way.

All in the 1st movement:

Bar 1; 1st Baritone and 1st Trombone are marked ff on the last crotchet should this be mf as in the bass line?

3rd bar after A; 1st Baritone and Bass Trombone are still f according to their last marking, should this be p as per rest of the band?

Bar 17; Instruments that carry on through the bar start a crescendo but nothing is marked on the Bass Trombone, Euphonium, Eb Bass and Bb Bass, should they also be marked with a hairpin crescendo mark?

Bar 20; the Bass Trombone (if the above is correct) and Eb Bass are marked p from their last marking, should this be f ?

Bar 22 ; the Bb Bass and Timpani are marked p and mf respectively from their last markings, should they be f as per the rest of the band?

Bar befor E; The band are on a diminuendo but the Eb Bass is still marked ff from the last marking, what dynamic should it be?

Timpking
13.01.2009, 18:03
Any sign of an official errata yet?:confused:

MrBb
16.01.2009, 14:55
I thought the same thing when I looked at the Scorch version, but when you get the actual score and parts, most of the 2nd movement is a solo for cornet, so there's plenty to do. On the Scorch version, it isn't marked as a solo.

After playing it i'd hardly call 4 bars and another 4 bars later on a Cornet Solo, pretty poor in all honesty. Give me the one in purcell variations any day.

Baton twirler
20.01.2009, 08:33
Hi,
bands are finding more and more errors in the piece as they play it but there has not been anymore contact from the publishers about this. I have posted some extra ones for them to check but no response! Since looking at the piece further I have found more in the 3rd movement. It looks like a copy and paste job that hasn't carried some of the marks of expression through and also volume marks missing. Is there likely to be a more detailed errata list given or are we to carry on regardless and hope the adjudicators acccept instruments playing FF in P passages! We can use our own initiative I suppose but I don't think this is really what bands expect. I do feel we should be treated better than this, especially when we have spent our hard earned cash on a piece of music that could reward us with a place in the finals and maybe promotion to the 3rd section. We are always being told about attention to detail in our remarks when we play, perhaps more attention should have been made when proofing the piece. Sorry to sound like Victor Meldrew but myself and a few other people have posted here about this but not had replies.

Ladybass
20.01.2009, 16:11
Fourth section E flats, what a treat!! No more crotchets and crotchet rests. We have quavers, semi quavers and even the tune!! So enjoying getting our teeth into something challenging at last. Give us the baritone parts! Give us the trombone bits they can't do.
Come on E flats this is what we've been waiting for!!!

Nigel Hall
20.01.2009, 16:50
Hi All,

It seems that something went awry with the (free) utility I used to convert from Sibelius to PDF for the printers, it obviously couldn't cope with the larger files that this piece produced and didn't carry through some of the dynamic markings. I am almost done with checking against my original Sibelius file and will be posting the missing dynamics in the next couple of days. Apologies for the delay.

Mrs Horn
20.01.2009, 23:04
Sounds like you've had a bit of a nightmare there :)

Any chance of a full errata before Friday night's rehearsal though ??? :eek: :biggrin:

EbEwan
20.01.2009, 23:07
Couldn't agree with you more Ladybass. Plus, thankyou very much for that Mr. Hall I'm sure many bands will be reassured that you are sorting out the problems with the dynamics...I personally think that we should be rejoicing the fact that, not only have we got a good piece of music to play, we have a publisher that is listening to people and getting stuff done (and at least all the notes were correct for once, the dynamics may be a problem but at least MDs have only had to make "choices" on dynamics).

Apologies if I've rambled but some rather nice red wine went down this evening...

Nigel Hall
20.01.2009, 23:10
Sounds like you've had a bit of a nightmare there :)

Any chance of a full errata before Friday night's rehearsal though ??? :eek: :biggrin:

Hopefully either tomorrow or Thursday.

madandcrazytromboneguy
21.01.2009, 23:55
ladybass "the trombone bits they can't play"

not ALL trombone players in the 4th section can't play their parts ;)

hope you enjoy your area experience this year

i have to say that although the 5 pieces should all TEST the bands, this piece is a bit over the top for a lot of the 4th section

i reckon 3rd section bands would find talisman a test

the 1st movements alright, 2nd movements nice, 3rd movement i aint too keen on, dont think theres really much of a tune/melody in it, and for what ther is in it, its all a bit weird sounding, certainly not what you'd expect in a so called 4th section piece

just want to do it now, get on bradford stage and kick some bands butts! (musically of course lol)

woolly
22.01.2009, 16:09
Hi Nigel

Is is available yet on line or elsewhere?

Cheers Dave

jjules
22.01.2009, 16:46
Wonder how many 4th section bands have pulled out of the contest this year, will be interesting to see. I like it and would have at least like the opportunity to have a go at it. Never mind majority rules I guess!

Nigel Hall
22.01.2009, 20:23
I have just posted the errata sheet on our website (www.mmi-music.co.uk (http://www.mmi-music.co.uk))

Again apologies for the delay and the missing dynamics.

David Mann
23.01.2009, 10:39
I've been asked to help out a band on cornet. Got the dots last night, certainly looks a challenge.

Lezuls
23.01.2009, 19:02
Just looked at the errata on mmi web site. Noted the 2nd horn plays p in the 23 bar we don't play a note in the 2nd movement so I will enjoy the challenge of playing that bar with no notes at piano. Thanks (ha ha):confused:

Mrs Horn
24.01.2009, 01:32
I have just posted the errata sheet on our website (www.mmi-music.co.uk (http://www.mmi-music.co.uk))

Again apologies for the delay and the missing dynamics.

Unfortunately, although I'm subscribed to this thread, I didn't receive a notification in my e-mails of your post Nigel :eek: Oh well, there's always Monday's rehearsal :biggrin:

Lol Lezuls :biggrin:

Columbo
26.01.2009, 10:54
Wonder how many 4th section bands have pulled out of the contest this year, will be interesting to see. I like it and would have at least like the opportunity to have a go at it. Never mind majority rules I guess!

Yes, however it would be a crying shame. I would prefer that, should bands withdraw from the contest it would (unfortunately) be based on lack of players rather than difficulty of test piece. I do agree with most that this is a great test for 4th section bands, however to quote a cliche "we're all in the same boat" and at least it should sort the men from the boys (or indeed the women from the girls!). Whilst not professing to break any records ourselves this year as this is our first competetive attempt for a while, we are having a good go at this piece and, if nothing else, this shall be a good learning experience for our band and indeed some others also I feel. In reference to switching parts, as commented by some. I understand this, however I have the utmost faith in my 'secondary players' and shall be giving them every opportunity to have a go rather than switching parts. This is all about attitude so come on guys, have a go and lets have faith in our players thus making this a great day for all concerned. Good luck to all who share my enthusiasm!

Jason Smith
MD Carrbrook Brass

Cornishgal
26.01.2009, 17:00
I've got to say the first time we played this through i thought OH MY GOD!!! This will only be my second contest back after a five year break and i've been put on Rep! I love playing Rep and now getting back into the swing of things i am loving this peice. I can play all the notes it's just playing everything at the right speed and in the rights places. I think it's a great choice of peice it gets people thinking including me! Really looking forward to March :-)

bigcol
29.01.2009, 10:26
Sorry if this sounds nasty but it isn't. I'm looking forward to 1) the errata for the errata - there's a few changes on there where the instrument concerned is actually resting and 2) the next errata, I think there's at least 2-3 times more mistakes which need looking at, especially a rather fetching 1st baritone wrong note in the last movement 2nd bar of D.

Not a dig, we are used to it now in the brass band movement, not the first time and won't be the last time (I remember Chris Wormald posts on 4BR about the errors in Four Cities last year...).

monody
31.01.2009, 14:16
Sorry if this sounds nasty but it isn't. I'm looking forward to 1) the errata for the errata - there's a few changes on there where the instrument concerned is actually resting and 2) the next errata, I think there's at least 2-3 times more mistakes which need looking at, especially a rather fetching 1st baritone wrong note in the last movement 2nd bar of D.

According to our MD, there's a been a considerable amount of emailing going on and at last count there are over 100 errors in the piece... interesting, no?

Elliebone
10.02.2009, 00:30
Is there any update on the errata list yet? Too many to count and too much guesswork. Reply from the publiashers / composer would be appreciated.

Ex_Horn
10.02.2009, 13:14
Is it just me or does anyone else not like the piece. It certainly will be a test (which is fine) but it is not a piece that I am relishing playing - just playing it out of necessity. I cannot wait for the areas to be over so we never have to play the piece again. We played 4 Noble Truths at Butlins and loved going to rehearsals and at the moment I am not. I know this sounds a little harsh but I just don't like it.

superjobby
10.02.2009, 21:58
Is it just me or does anyone else not like the piece. It certainly will be a test (which is fine) but it is not a piece that I am relishing playing - just playing it out of necessity. I cannot wait for the areas to be over so we never have to play the piece again. We played 4 Noble Truths at Butlins and loved going to rehearsals and at the moment I am not. I know this sounds a little harsh but I just don't like it.


It has certainly split opinion in our band. I think it depends on where you're sat. I love it, but then I think the rep part is quite interesting, and it holds my attention as a result.

Agree with you about Four Noble Truths though, I couldn't wait to get to band to play it! :D

LynneW
10.02.2009, 22:57
It has certainly split opinion in our band. I think it depends on where you're sat. I love it, but then I think the rep part is quite interesting, and it holds my attention as a result.

Agree with you about Four Noble Truths though, I couldn't wait to get to band to play it! :D

It's growing on me. The more we play it the more sense it seems to make, but there's certainly nowhere for any player to hide in this one, and personally I think it's the hardest 4th section piece for many years.

eanto
11.02.2009, 03:06
It's growing on me. The more we play it the more sense it seems to make, but there's certainly nowhere for any player to hide in this one, and personally I think it's the hardest 4th section piece for many years.

Never seen it myself, but it might explain why only 16 bands have entered :confused:

E flat fred
11.02.2009, 03:25
That is not the case in my region.
We have so many entered that we are having to have a split draw.

bigcol
11.02.2009, 09:20
The North has 9 entries instead of 13 last year, most sections are down this year though.

Can't wait for errata #2 - as one of the latter areas I hope we have more time to re-learn than some of the more unlucky bands i.e. there's some notes in the bass trombone part in movement 3 that are just plain wrong, they are neither unison nor in fifths with the bass part but it isn't obvious what it should be.

E flat fred
11.02.2009, 09:55
These mistakes are also in the Euph. part and we are contesting on 1st March ( the first contest)and still have not yet received the 2nd errata

Baton twirler
11.02.2009, 21:00
Is it just me or does anyone else not like the piece. It certainly will be a test (which is fine) but it is not a piece that I am relishing playing - just playing it out of necessity. I cannot wait for the areas to be over so we never have to play the piece again. We played 4 Noble Truths at Butlins and loved going to rehearsals and at the moment I am not. I know this sounds a little harsh but I just don't like it.
I must admit it is not one of my favourite pieces and not many, if any in the band like it either. Just not in the same league as The Four Noble Truths or The Seasons we played a couple of years ago. The 1st movement has grown on me a little but the rest just does nothing for me, as a quartet it is probably very good but I don't think it makes a particularly good full band piece. Just my humble opinion though!
With regard to the amount of mistakes in the piece it appears that it has not really been proof read properly. As a typesetter for one of the big brass band publishing companies I can appreciate that it is easy to miss a few things here and there in a test piece with loads of bars but the amount of errors in this is not really acceptable especially when so much is at stake for a lot of bands! It might not be one of the most expensive test pieces but bands have paid hard earned cash for it and have the right to expect it to be correct!

E flat fred
11.02.2009, 21:37
Is there still no update for the possible mistakes?
We play on the 1st March so we will be one of the first to play the piece in the actual contest.
It is no good receiveng them AFTER 1st March

Columbo
11.02.2009, 21:57
Is there still no update for the possible mistakes?
We play on the 1st March so we will be one of the first to play the piece in the actual contest.
It is no good receiveng them AFTER 1st March
I agree! Is there only a minority who are beginning to think this is getting beyond a joke. It has not been thought out very well to say the least!
1 - It was very much disregarded by Adjudicators at Preston.
2 - Bands are finding this piece difficult enough as it is.
3 - As you say, we are STILL waiting for final Errata!

Will someone please get a grip and sort this or will the only correct final copy be in the hands of the adjudicator so we can have a lottery at the contest!

A polite, yet frustrated reminder.

sudcornet
12.02.2009, 10:09
Are we not getting a tad carried away over this errata thing? I agree that there are more anomalies than there should be in a published work, but I'm not overly concerned by them. Most are fairly obvious - p or mf entries? - the odd note in a chord? - I'm just correcting them using the common sense approach.

I really like this piece and haven't had a moan or groan from any of the band (yet!). It's great to have a stern challenge in the 4th section, not just for the players, but also for the conductors. We had a rehearsal last night where I worked solely on the last movement. Last week we couldn't have made it right through it. At the end of last night we successfully negotiated it and had the beginnings of a very competent performance and a happy, if tired, band.

What do you MD's think of the piece? I'm lucky enough to have a top section background and the benefit of Ray Farr's conducting course and I still find my head buried in the score, particularly the last movement where I could do with an extra baton up my whatsits to be able to give all the cues currently required.

Just thought I'd give my two pennorth as most of the posts on this thread seem so downbeat.

Sud

kierendinno
13.02.2009, 03:02
Are we not getting a tad carried away over this errata thing? I agree that there are more anomalies than there should be in a published work, but I'm not overly concerned by them. Most are fairly obvious - p or mf entries? - the odd note in a chord? - I'm just correcting them using the common sense approach.

Sud

I agree, and our MD has corrected quite alot of sections within the piece not covered by the errata, theres little point in bleating on about it this close to the contest. It's time consuming, but not nearly as time consuming as moaning about it!!

I personally enjoy the piece, and think the Euphonium part has a bit of everything. It just takes some getting used to, but once everyone knows what they're doing with the time signatures, there isn't much to it I don't think... but I suppose if I played the bass part I'd be commenting differently, it sounds like quite a test for them.

Hopefully in future issues like errata will be put right, but these things happen so I suppose it's best just to get on with it... It paves the way for some interesting interpretations at least!!

One question though, which might highlight my relative inexperience at contesting (having done 11 in my 10 years of banding): Will adjudicators be more lenient when 'adjudicating' the piece because of the extensive list of mistakes? I mean, will the adjudicators have the same score that all Fourth Section bands in the country have, or will they get fully corrected ones (if there is such a thing) from the publishers? I don't really know how it works, sorry if it sounds stupid!

kristen63
13.02.2009, 09:59
We just played the Talisman as a self choice piece in a contest and we didn't fare too well I'm afraid.

The potentially difficult changing time signatures were dealt with by our MD before we even had our first try to play the piece. He told us to put away our instruments and sharpen our pencils, and we all marked, above every bar, the number of beats (like 3+3+2 for 8/8 and a big number '3' for 9/8 bars etc.). We had little or no problems with time signatures after that.
In the first movement the rhythm (3+3+2) was marked up with accents ('>' s) and we were told to exaggerate to begin with. With the rhythmical 'feel' firmly set the accents was eased down and the first movement flowed nicely.

The second movement turned out to be a problem in the contest itself. Tuning problems in solo cornets from the very first bar. Players backing off because of this and balance problems (trombones vs cornets) followed. It did improve a little and the solos was OK but the damage was already done.
Very painful...

...and worse was to come.
Shocked and appalled by the 2nd movement malady we lost it completely on the third. Our minds churning on missed opportunities we were mentally on our way to the lobby bar even before the first note (we are only a 4th section band...). The required waltz feeling was gone and replaced by a stuttering machine gun effect on the semi quavers. Technically everything was in place but according to one of the adjudicators it was all in the wrong place..

The well played 1st movement couldn't save us and the judges rightly placed us number 12 (in a field of 22 or 23 bands, don't remember).


Good luck to everyone! Be careful to start the 2. movement in tune and you should be fine.

bigcol
13.02.2009, 10:29
When the different between a first and second place can literally be one note, one dynamic or one nuance, I can't understand anyone being defensive about this music being littered with errors. There is enough to worry about on the day - why leave things to chance? Is it enough to think you know what the right notes/dynamics/scoring should be? I don't think so - apart from the erroneous errata we have no way of knowing what we are guessing is wrong actually a) is wrong and b) we are fixing them correctly. You could play the piece note perfect and then be marked down because it didn't match the score. Common sense and adjudication are not universal bed-fellows.

If this was the top section piece, it would be all over 4barsrest, British Bandsman etc.

Columbo
13.02.2009, 10:32
I agree, all has gone quiet!

sopranoplayer
13.02.2009, 15:38
I have just posted the errata sheet on our website (www.mmi-music.co.uk (http://www.mmi-music.co.uk))

Again apologies for the delay and the missing dynamics.

I certainly has gone quiet especially from Mr Hall. Although, having looked at his profile he appears to still be active on this website as early as this morning!!

I find it quite hard to believe he hasn't looked at this thread and its content and given us some ideas as to when/if a second errata sheet will be forwarded to all bands. Or tell us that there aren't any wrong notes etc in the piece.

I know one of our members has tried to make contact via telephone on several occasions, but no one is answering?!!

Come on Mr Hall take all the guesswork out of the equation, this is a fabulous piece of music and for it to be spoilt by bands having to guess the right answer to notes that appear totally wrong would be a real shame.

nigeb12
13.02.2009, 19:43
Whilst agreeing that it is frustrating having so many mistakes in the score I have to feel a certain amount of sympathy with Nigel because I think the number of errors is probably down to the original scoring and Nige is trying to pick up the pieces from that.

Its late in the day but cut some slack eh guys?

E flat fred
15.02.2009, 21:46
One thing That is good about soprano player replying is that it is so polite, I would go a little or a lot OTT, and the soprano player way seems to get better results.
I am still awaiting the coreectrion sheet even after a nice posting.
If we play what is on the music and do not correct what we think are mistakes will the adjudicater judge on what is written on the original score or on corrections made by individual bands for the alledged wrong chording?????
Pleasew advise

E flat fred
16.02.2009, 20:00
Just spoke with Nigel Hall and he has verified that there is no further errata sheet to be issued. He has gone through the score with Frank Hughes and it is now correct after the nfirst errata sheet.
3rd Section bar 27 the clash with Euph. Bass and bass trom is RIGHT from the man himself.
I was informed to play as written and that is what it will be marked on.

mikelyons
18.02.2009, 10:45
Looking at the scorch version on Nigel's website, there is no problem with that chord. The only problem would arise is if it isn't properly balanced and in tune. The clash is only between the bass trom and Eb bass who are a major 2nd apart. Hardly the most dissonant interval. The low pitch will give it a bit of extra 'rub', but hey, it's meant to be a test! ;)

madandcrazytromboneguy
22.02.2009, 02:29
im considering playing the whole piece stood up insted of sat down, i can play it much easier stood up somehow

our band seems to be taking the piece at tempos where its a bit too fast to single tongue but a bit too slow to double, personally i'd like the MD to take it maybe a touch slower in areas as this would seem to suit the rest of the band aswell, rather than going the faster route and it becoming harder for many of the players who have never come across a 4th section piece this tricky before

anyone reckon that dark side of the moon is easier than talisman? most of the players in my band are of this opinion!

also are any bands sick of it that they are calling it the taliban rather than talisman? again that has come up from 1 or 2 in our band, and in a way, i dont blame them

the only way to think about it is that all other bands will be struggling with similar parts of the piece, its unlikely that there will be more than 1, possibly 2 excellent performances as most 4th section bands wont have come across a piece like this before

i still believe that if we play our best and our MD does the business in keeping us together on the day that we can win the yorkshire area, but we may have to rely on the fact that half the bands in our section are not going to perform any better than average at best, this is a big chance to push for promotion at the 1st attempt!

NOT EASY, BUT VERY DOABLE!

kierendinno
22.02.2009, 17:08
im considering playing the whole piece stood up insted of sat down, i can play it much easier stood up somehow

our band seems to be taking the piece at tempos where its a bit too fast to single tongue but a bit too slow to double, personally i'd like the MD to take it maybe a touch slower in areas as this would seem to suit the rest of the band aswell, rather than going the faster route and it becoming harder for many of the players who have never come across a 4th section piece this tricky before

anyone reckon that dark side of the moon is easier than talisman? most of the players in my band are of this opinion!

also are any bands sick of it that they are calling it the taliban rather than talisman? again that has come up from 1 or 2 in our band, and in a way, i dont blame them

the only way to think about it is that all other bands will be struggling with similar parts of the piece, its unlikely that there will be more than 1, possibly 2 excellent performances as most 4th section bands wont have come across a piece like this before

i still believe that if we play our best and our MD does the business in keeping us together on the day that we can win the yorkshire area, but we may have to rely on the fact that half the bands in our section are not going to perform any better than average at best, this is a big chance to push for promotion at the 1st attempt!

NOT EASY, BUT VERY DOABLE!

I'm kind of having the same problem- in the semi-quaver runs towards the end of the first movement, I'm double-tongueing (spelling??) it, but then it seems to speed up and I get shouted at, but It's too fast to single tongue! Aaargh!! But I'll get there... I still think Four Noble Truths was more difficult...

I don't know what band you play for, but I think this year it will be interesting in the Yorkshire 4th Section as I think it's very close... plus the fact that 2 of the 3 relegated 3rd section bands aren't competeing, and there are also 2 bands who haven't contested before (or in a while) so they will want to make their mark... it really is open to maybe 6 or 7 bands

We concentrated on the Butlins piece November onwards so have only really started to get to grips with Talisman, but once you get the time signatures carved into your mind, there isn't much to it (IMHO) and with 2 weeks to go before the big day, I think we are all happy with the progress made and will hopefully put on a good show... Just needs to be very controlled on the day or it could easily fall apart...

Anyway, good luck to your band, and to all the bands competing...

MrBb
24.02.2009, 13:34
Well we played it again last night (as you'd expect the week before the contest), and i'm actually starting to like the peice, there are some really good bits in it that you only hear when the bands playing it right note wise and sticking all the dynamic contrast in there, which is complete contrast to my 1st impression of it being a pile of rubbish. Looking forward to performing this at weekend now :D

micky mouser
27.02.2009, 15:49
nice piece, this will certainly sort the men from the boys!....the winners should stand out by a golden mile

E flat fred
02.03.2009, 05:39
and they certainly did.
Well done Eccles.
Worthy Winners

Mrs Horn
02.03.2009, 11:21
I have never been so happy to come 7th at a contest in nearly 40 years of banding :biggrin:

Well done Nelson Brass :clap:

This time last year Nelson didn't even have half a band :eek:

HaleStorm
10.03.2009, 22:00
I have never been so happy to come 7th at a contest in nearly 40 years of banding :biggrin:

Same here

Sn0uter
14.03.2009, 23:30
Good luck all bands in the 4th section West of England tomorrow.

themusicalrentboy
14.03.2009, 23:40
Good Luck to bestwood tomorrow at Bedworth

Timpking
19.03.2009, 13:29
Well this piece certainly hasn't been a sucess has it ? I didn't enjoy listening to it or working on it. I hope the music panel take note of the bad press and think carefrully about future choices.

This piece is too hard for the 4th section!!!!:eek:

alks
19.03.2009, 13:39
Well this piece certainly hasn't been a sucess has it ? I didn't enjoy listening to it or working on it. I hope the music panel take note of the bad press and think carefrully about future choices.

This piece is too hard for the 4th section!!!!:eek:

I actually quite enjoyed this piece, as did many in our band. Found it quite fun to play and a bit more energetic than previous test pieces. The difficulty meant that the piece really sorted out the bands better. 4brs negative comments about the piece are going a bit far i think. Perhaps the piece is a bit like marmite for people?

alks

Timpking
19.03.2009, 14:18
I actually quite enjoyed this piece, as did many in our band. Found it quite fun to play and a bit more energetic than previous test pieces. The difficulty meant that the piece really sorted out the bands better. 4brs negative comments about the piece are going a bit far i think. Perhaps the piece is a bit like marmite for people?

alks

Or something else brown and sticky!! Fair enough I'm sure there are alot of people who enjoyed it. However my band spent weeks on the piece with extra reheasals here, there and everywhere played really well on stage (some people in the audience thought we had won it) and got a terrible result.:confused:
So I never want to hear it again!!

nomperism
19.03.2009, 14:23
Or something else brown and sticky!! Fair enough I'm sure there are alot of people who enjoyed it. However my band spent weeks on the piece with extra reheasals here, there and everywhere played really well on stage (some people in the audience thought we had won it) and got a terrible result.:confused:
So I never want to hear it again!!


I quite liked the piece myself, but a lot of our band hated it.

We completely messed up the 1st movement (which we played the best at for weeks in rehearsals) and we thought we had come last, but we came 7th out of 9 which is an improvement from last years debut at 10th out of 10!:clap:

Daisy Duck
19.03.2009, 14:24
This piece is too hard for the 4th section!!!!:eek:

It's a good challenge and I'd much rather play something like this than something too easy where I get bored after only 2 weeks of rehearsal.

Timpking
19.03.2009, 14:34
It's a good challenge and I'd much rather play something like this than something too easy where I get bored after only 2 weeks of rehearsal.


I would have quite happily liked to rehearse a piece for two weeks then get bored with it however I spent months on it and got a dodgy result!

I know of 2nd section bands who wouldn't get near the piece.
Good challenge yes, good choice no.

I we had won I'm sure I would think it's a classic right up there with The year of the Dragon, Journey into Freedom and Mexican Fiesta!!! ;)