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Di
04.06.2008, 15:29
National Finals 2008
Fourth Section Test Piece

The Shipbuilders Suite for Brass Band
by Peter York
Chappell, distributed by Studio Music London

dlls2275
04.06.2008, 16:43
Fantastic choice, only wish we had qualified. Good luck to all competing bands.

Pythagoras
04.06.2008, 18:32
Glad I'm not playing.One of my least favourite test pieces. I remember when there was talk of Killamarsh contesting our chairman getting this out. I think it had the effect he desired!

Padstow
04.06.2008, 20:02
This will test the bands. You have been warned!

Masterblaster jnr
04.06.2008, 22:27
Just looked at the Solo Horn Part :cry: :dunno:eek: . do the national finals provide a double bed with 2 pillows, i think i'll need It! :frown:

Let down of the century for me, although its apparently quite a nice piece (i'll have plenty of time to listen to it whilst gazing into the roof and getting unbelievably bored with my part)

Will the Sec
04.06.2008, 22:35
I think there is a LOT more to find in the piece, including in the solo horn part, than you're giving Peter York credit for.

Revisit your comments after 3 months' practice, and the performance young MBj, as see if your comments still stand up.

Masterblaster jnr
04.06.2008, 22:44
i can only see currently that the 3rd movement is going to be a challenge, but then i don't know the piece so i don'yt know how much stamina i'll need for the last movement.

Drummer_cornetgirl91
04.06.2008, 22:58
I think its a good choice. Feel sorry for the back row cornets tho, that have to play a lot of top A's and its quite a challenging piece for the fourth section. Good luck to all the bands playing this.

MattB
05.06.2008, 08:35
Its an interesting choice alright! I think personally they could have slipped up though. How many of the cream of 4th section bands will realistically have much of a problem with this after a couple of weeks? Sure, there are some technical and tonal demands, but all the top bands in the section have that sorted anyway (or certainly SHOULD do!).

I like the piece, dont get me wrong, just a bit surprised to see it as a Finals test piece. Considering the standard of the own choices of the bands who win local contests I think this may prove a bit boring!

Flugel Boy
05.06.2008, 13:04
There's a lot to commend in Peter Yorke's works and The Shipbuilders is one of my favourites. Not too taxing for the players, but an interesting listen for the audience and chock full of musical "traps". There's a world of difference between being able to play something and performing it. This piece, whether or not the individual parts are challenging, requires a performance to win.

grandmothersclock
05.06.2008, 13:22
Just looked at the Solo Horn Part :cry: :dunno:eek: . do the national finals provide a double bed with 2 pillows, i think i'll need It! :frown:

Let down of the century for me, although its apparently quite a nice piece (i'll have plenty of time to listen to it whilst gazing into the roof and getting unbelievably bored with my part)
What were you expedting for the 4th section Jonny....Journey into freedom? Maybe you should join a better band as your obviously far, far too good for the lowly 4th section! Honestly..... :|

Masterblaster jnr
05.06.2008, 16:04
What were you expedting for the 4th section Jonny....Journey into freedom? Maybe you should join a better band as your obviously far, far too good for the lowly 4th section! Honestly..... :|

Something a bit more modern, (not saying old is bad), and something which isnt just quavers and offbeats.

It seems obvious you don't really know of last years 4th section piece. Modern, something in for all the parts, nice to listen to and challenging. it seems the Shipbuilders, i'm guessing it's nice on the ear, but looks like a standard, Cornet has tune, euph has tune, back row has the high parts, horns have quavers and um chucks etc etc.

Bring back Roman Tryptych I say.

Accidental
05.06.2008, 16:41
I think personally they could have slipped up though. How many of the cream of 4th section bands will realistically have much of a problem with this after a couple of weeks? Sure, there are some technical and tonal demands, but all the top bands in the section have that sorted anyway.

Let down of the century for me, although its apparently quite a nice piece (i'll have plenty of time to listen to it whilst gazing into the roof and getting unbelievably bored with my part)
I admire the optimism guys! Plenty of 3rd section bands underestimated it at their peril when it was set for the areas in 93, and I don't think standards in the lower sections have changed that drastically since then.

That said, I personally hate the piece.... have fun! :tongue:

Seaweed
06.06.2008, 12:44
I know i dont like the top A's! At the end of the rehearsal and the condustor says - lets have a quick run through this....

Rest of the piece seems ok as test pieces go.

ian perks
09.06.2008, 15:35
Ive heard it many times and its a great piece.
Only ever played it once and that was at a concert with the first band i ever played for that was when we were a second section band i played the 2nd Baritone part a real treat to play.
This will prove to be a good test for 4th section bands and will give many hours of enjoyment during practise times both at home and at band +SECTIONALS!!!!!!!!!.
May the best band win.

mikelyons
10.06.2008, 20:36
Hasn't this been a 4th section testpiece before? I seem to remember playing it a long, long time ago. It's a nice piece. I enjoyed playing it, but why not a new piece?

andyh
10.06.2008, 23:32
Hasn't this been a 4th section testpiece before? I seem to remember playing it a long, long time ago. It's a nice piece. I enjoyed playing it, but why not a new piece?

We played it in the third section at Butlins 2005. I seem to remember that the basses and trombones can win or lose the contest for a band in the opening bars. No pressure, then ... :-)

Andy

yank67
11.06.2008, 16:51
We played it in the third section at Butlins 2005. I seem to remember that the basses and trombones can win or lose the contest for a band in the opening bars. No pressure, then ... :-)

Andy

That must be why Woodbridge did so well, Great bass players!;)

andyh
11.06.2008, 21:53
That must be why Woodbridge did so well, Great bass players!;)

:p

kajoh8
30.06.2008, 12:03
Does anyone know if there are any changes/additions to original publication of The Shipbuilder Suite. ie:- do we need to buy a new set??

robcav
01.07.2008, 01:18
Hasn't this been a 4th section testpiece before? I seem to remember playing it a long, long time ago. It's a nice piece. I enjoyed playing it, but why not a new piece?

I believe it was the National Finals (old) Third section piece in 1973 which was won by Haworth Band. This is a real test for any fourth section band, especially the cornet section.

JR
01.07.2008, 12:48
I believe it was the National Finals (old) Third section piece in 1973 which was won by Haworth Band. This is a real test for any fourth section band, especially the cornet section.

Correct Rob - it was me who told you last week!

I played on the front row that day for the original Rothwell Temps with my Dad conducting - we played well early on and I remember Dad being gutted at only coming 9th or 10th!
It was held at Fulham Town Hall and the band stayed at the then brand new London Penta hotel on Cromwell Road (now Holiday Inn Forum) - I remember most of the band being amazed by the ultra modern facilities - automatic doors - and, wait for it - mini bars.
This was, don't forget, 35 years ago... (my god it is..)

Long time ago - but great atmosphere in those days

JR

Masterblaster jnr
01.07.2008, 12:54
Does anyone know if there are any changes/additions to original publication of The Shipbuilder Suite. ie:- do we need to buy a new set??

No. Well at least we haven't found any yet.

All it looks like is a photocopy (:eek:) of the originals. good money spinner. There might be some but as i say i haven't found any

007ish
02.07.2008, 16:17
Taken from Kapitol Promotions web site:-

" Recommended recordings
To order, contact Polyphonic at the contact address and telephone number given above for Studio Music Company, but use the following e-mail address: polyphonic@studio-music.co.uk

1. Harry Mortimer – A Musical Tribute
Catalogue reference: QPRL 050D)
Polyphonic "


What do Kapitol mean by recommended recording :confused:
Is this a benchmark given to the Adjudicators and the Bands on which to base their performance criteria :cool:
Or have the adjudicators advised kapitol of their preferred interpretation :(
Or is it just a favourite recording in Phillip’s (Kapitol Promotions) collection ;)
Not knocking it, but is it something we and the other sections with "Recommended Recordings" need to know???

4thmandown
03.07.2008, 10:48
I admire the optimism guys! Plenty of 3rd section bands underestimated it at their peril when it was set for the areas in 93, and I don't think standards in the lower sections have changed that drastically since then.

That said, I personally hate the piece.... have fun! :tongue:

I seem to remember us qualifying for the finals on Shipbuilders that year, so I thought you might have had fonder memories.

We did have some pretty decent players in the band at that time who've moved onward and upward since, so I think it's a very, very challenging piece for 4th Section.

The third movement will provide many opportunities for trips and slips, but I think the 4th movement will really test the bands severely. There is no opportunity for any drop in concentration or intensity at all and it is a real test of stamina and control.

Best of luck folks!

JR
03.07.2008, 12:10
Taken from Kapitol Promotions web site:-

" Recommended recordings
To order, contact Polyphonic at the contact address and telephone number given above for Studio Music Company, but use the following e-mail address: polyphonic@studio-music.co.uk

1. Harry Mortimer – A Musical Tribute
Catalogue reference: QPRL 050D)
Polyphonic "


What do Kapitol mean by recommended recording :confused:
Is this a benchmark given to the Adjudicators and the Bands on which to base their performance criteria :cool:
Or have the adjudicators advised kapitol of their preferred interpretation :(
Or is it just a favourite recording in Phillip’s (Kapitol Promotions) collection ;)
Not knocking it, but is it something we and the other sections with "Recommended Recordings" need to know???

seems a bit odd this - especially as there are several Shipbuilders recordings available.
All the other pieces have only one or two. There arent any recordings of the 3rd section piece (Hurray!!)
What's wrong with the Dyke version from the early 70s? (same LP as Sovereign Heritage) - seems fine to me...
I also remember Besses recording it with Ifor james on an LP entitled Capriccio Brilliante.
Also the old Wm Davis band did it etc etc

JR

BbBill
03.07.2008, 12:48
Theres a good recording on the Sunlife "Legacy" triple CD.

Can remember playing it at the Areas in the 90's, wasnt that fussed with it back then as a tender 15yr old, but quite enjoy listening to it now!

blasterbates
03.07.2008, 13:50
National Finals 1st Section 2007, and our draw delegate was stunned by another delegate (she didn't say which band) asking the question: "Should we play the piece as per the recording or as per the score?"

Amazing. :confused:

Presumably referring to the YBS recording which was much quicker than the score marking at (I think) around number 157 - the drunken sailor bit anyway.

Now I'm not knocking listening to recordings of other bands - I myself have had a bit of Haakon recently - but once you've familiarised yourself with how is goes in general, surely you put away the recording(s) and get on with rehearsing your own conductor's interpretation. Isn't that one of the reasons making live music is so interesting?

Can you imagine listening to 20 identical performances of anything (let alone Shipbuilders) based around just one 'recommended' recording. If is was up to me I'd let bands listen to whichever recording(s) they wanted to (if indeed they wanted to at all) then let their M.D.s get on with their job.

Perhaps with a bit of help from the score. :biggrin:

brassbandmaestro
25.07.2008, 19:42
Glad I'm not playing this piece. Loads of people love it. Cant understand why. From the first time I heard this piece, I havnt liked it one iota. Bit like Frank Bryce's Promenade. dont like that one either!!

Will the Sec
25.07.2008, 20:55
For all the conductors training bands for this piece - you can save oodles of time in the last movement by inserting two or three rehearsal numbers/letters....

007ish
15.09.2008, 12:50
25.07.2008, 20:55

007ish
15.09.2008, 13:02
Can not believe that there have been no posting on this thread since 25.07.2008, 20:55. :rolleyes:
Have all the qualifiers withdrawn and not told anyone :confused:
Does no one have time to post because they are to busy practicing their parts :biggrin:
It is still a week Saturday isn’t it :eek:

ps. Sorry about previous post I took to long to edit it :(

brassbandmaestro
15.09.2008, 15:11
Thank goodness I'm not playing it. One of the most boring pieces out!

Colin.Doran
26.09.2008, 00:13
This sound rather sad but i am sort of looking forward to playing this on Saturday. In all my years of playing this will be my first ever National finals !!!! even though it is in the 4th section !!!! that for people who know me. I am not belittling the 4th section. The picec is good nice bass part wich will do nicely for me.

Regards Colin Doran BBb monkey any band will do ;)

steve butler
26.09.2008, 08:01
Thank goodness I'm not playing it. One of the most boring pieces out!
Boring ?
I've played it through with South Milford a couple of times and its got a smashing bass part! I'll get my mate Wilky to write you a list of really boring pieces!!!

Anyhow GO South Milford :tup

Killer told me they were going to win by 15 points ;)

brassbandmaestro
26.09.2008, 08:22
Has it really? Can you email me the link?

postie
27.09.2008, 09:49
Thanks to 4barsrest.com

Test Piece:
The Shipbuilders, Peter Yorke

Adjudicators:
Chris Wormald & Richard Evans

Commences: 09.30am

Fourth Section Draw

Amington, Wesley Kendrick, 5, Region: Midlands
Brunel Brass, John Winterflood, 14, Region: West of England
Cold Ash, Mike Clark, 13, Region: London & SC
Croft Silver, Ian Needham, 18, Region: Midlands
Crosskeys, Kerry Bowden, 1, Region: Wales
Hemel Hempstead, Graham Weekes, 6, Region: London & SC
Irvine & Dreghorn, D McKellar, 2, Region: Scotland
Kirkby Lonsdale, Mark Buchanan, 19, Region: North of England
Lofthouse 2000, Andrew Whitaker, 7, Region: Yorkshire
Lostock Hall Memorial, John Wood, 11, Region: North West,
Renfrew Burgh, David Hutcheson, 4, Region: Scotland
Severn Tunnel, Andrea Ayres, 12, Region: Wales
Skelmanthorpe B, Philip Garlick, 9, Region: Yorkshire
South Milford Brass, Richard Wilton, 17, Region: North of England
Tadley Concert Brass, Paul Chapman, 8, Region: London & SC
Tarleton and District Brass, Gillian Bould, 3, Region: North West
Thoresby Youth, Christine Gent, 20, Region: Midlands
Totnes, Ian Wilkinson, Region: 16, West of England
Uppermill, Alan Widdop, 15, Region: North West
Wincanton Silver, B. Kelloway, 10, Region: West of England

bassinthebathroom
27.09.2008, 11:43
I see 4br are making their usual in depth academic musical observations. More nautical references than god knows what, and not one mention yet of words like intontation or balance yet... what a load of poop (deck).
Anyway, good luck to Lostock Hall at No. 11, fingers crossed here for you all!

brassbandmaestro
27.09.2008, 11:48
I saw that to. Going a bit too far there really, yeah? They are far more capable than that! I cant remember wether they were like that with Vinter's JCC?

brassneck
27.09.2008, 15:33
Results:

1. Lostock Hall Memorial, John Wood, 11
2. Uppermill, Alan Widdop, 15
3. Amington, Wesley Kendrick, 5
4. Brunel Brass, John Winterflood, 14, 180
5. Renfrew Burgh, David Hutcheson, 4, 179
6. Hemel Hempstead, Graham Weekes, 6, 178

Best instrumentalist: Euph - Uppermill

http://www.4barsrest.com/news/detail.asp?id=8650

tubabum
27.09.2008, 15:57
Courtesy of 4BR:
Results:

1. Lostock Hall Memorial, John Wood, 11, 184
2. Uppermill, Alan Widdop, 15, 183
3. Amington, Wesley Kendrick, 5, 181
4. Brunel Brass, John Winterflood, 14, 180
5. Renfrew Burgh, David Hutcheson, 4, 179
6. Hemel Hempstead, Graham Weekes, 6, 178
7. South Milford Brass, Richard Wilton, 17, 177
8. Crosskeys, Kerry Bowden, 1, 176
9. Totnes, Ian Wilkinson, 16, 175
10. Wincanton Silver, B. Kelloway, 10, 174
11. Irvine & Dreghorn, D McKellan, 2, 173
12. Lofthouse 2000, Andrew Whitaker, 7, 172
13. Skelmanthorpe B, Philip Garlick, 9171
14. Severn Tunnel, Andrea Ayres, 12, 170
15. Tarleton and District Brass, Gillian Bould, 3, 169
16. Tadley Concert Brass, Paul Chapman, 8, 168
17. Kirkby Lonsdale, Mark Buchanan, 19, 166
18. Thoresby Youth, Christine Gent, 20, 165
19. Cold Ash, Mike Clark, 13, 164
20. Croft Silver, Ian Needham, 18, 163

Best instrumentalist: Euph - Uppermill

Di
27.09.2008, 17:49
These have now been added to Prediction Central. Pop along and see how you did. ;)

CubbRep
27.09.2008, 19:09
Well done to Amington on an impressive 3rd place.And commiserations to Thoresby youth and Croft.Its the taking part that counts and at least you got there which is no mean feat.

Anno Draconis
27.09.2008, 21:01
Nice to see the North West keeping its grip on this section; congratulations to Lostock Hall and Uppermill :clap:

Blagger
28.09.2008, 10:58
Thanks to everyone for their congrats and messages.
Livers and heads are recovering nicely :)

brassbandmaestro
28.09.2008, 11:02
I still think that 4barsrest.com was taking the mick out of this piece. I know I have said that I find this rather boring but there is still no need for the way that aforesaid has been treating this.

dyl
28.09.2008, 11:18
I still think that 4barsrest.com was taking the mick out of this piece. I know I have said that I find this rather boring but there is still no need for the way that aforesaid has been treating this.

They always seem to treat lower section bands and test pieces like this - they never use their peculiar brand of 'humour' when covering Champ Section contests though, funnily enough. I find it all a bit patronising and disrespectful to be honest.

brassbandmaestro
28.09.2008, 11:21
Could'nt agree with you more Dyl. I might even email them about this behaviour on their part!!

brassbandmaestro
28.09.2008, 11:34
NB to Dyl, email duly sent to 4barsrest.com.

postie
28.09.2008, 12:27
They always seem to treat lower section bands and test pieces like this - they never use their peculiar brand of 'humour' when covering Champ Section contests though, funnily enough. I find it all a bit patronising and disrespectful to be honest.


Totally agree with you total claptrap from 4bars rest. You want a proper report on each band not poor humour. It's very boring and they did it last year as well. They need to show proper respect for 4th section bands.

andyp
28.09.2008, 14:12
Well done everybody, especially Lostock Hall!

Masterblaster jnr
28.09.2008, 18:32
Courtesy of 4BR:
Results:

1. Lostock Hall Memorial, John Wood, 11, 184
2. Uppermill, Alan Widdop, 15, 183
3. Amington, Wesley Kendrick, 5, 181
4. Brunel Brass, John Winterflood, 14, 180
5. Renfrew Burgh, David Hutcheson, 4, 179
6. Hemel Hempstead, Graham Weekes, 6, 178
7. South Milford Brass, Richard Wilton, 17, 177
8. Crosskeys, Kerry Bowden, 1, 176
9. Totnes, Ian Wilkinson, 16, 175
10. Wincanton Silver, B. Kelloway, 10, 174
11. Irvine & Dreghorn, D McKellan, 2, 173
12. Lofthouse 2000, Andrew Whitaker, 7, 172
13. Skelmanthorpe B, Philip Garlick, 9171
14. Severn Tunnel, Andrea Ayres, 12, 170
15. Tarleton and District Brass, Gillian Bould, 3, 169
16. Tadley Concert Brass, Paul Chapman, 8, 168
17. Kirkby Lonsdale, Mark Buchanan, 19, 166
18. Thoresby Youth, Christine Gent, 20, 165
19. Cold Ash, Mike Clark, 13, 164
20. Croft Silver, Ian Needham, 18, 163

Best instrumentalist: Euph - Uppermill

Ha, brilliant, we'll pick up the trophy as soon as possible :rolleyes:

MightyForester
28.09.2008, 18:57
Could'nt agree with you more Dyl. I might even email them about this behaviour on their part!!


NB to Dyl, email duly sent to 4barsrest.com.


Totally agree with you total claptrap from 4bars rest. You want a proper report on each band not poor humour. It's very boring and they did it last year as well. They need to show proper respect for 4th section bands.

I too am in the process of writing a letter of digust on the way they reported the 4th section.
They lecture on the one hand about the grass roots of brass banding and then go and smack them where it hurts on the other. The comments were total crass and a dumbing down of this section.
All other sections appear to be in a more appropriate and constructiove manner, so one can only assume that one individual reported on the 4th section and someone with more knowledge has reported on the others.

May have to review and tone the document before sending though!!!!

Masterblaster jnr
28.09.2008, 19:47
I forgot to say well done to lostock hall, a well deserved achievement.

Nice to see a band placed where they should be :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

debs66
28.09.2008, 21:34
Well done to Amington on an impressive 3rd place.And commiserations to Thoresby youth and Croft.Its the taking part that counts and at least you got there which is no mean feat.
Thanks for the note Richard, but to be honest we got the placing we deserved. Started going wrong from the start and the band never recovered from the rockiest of starts. But hopefully we will learn, and a few more BETTER ATTENDED rehearsals would help. Never mind, onwards and upwards. Next stop Leicester (after helping Burbage next Sunday.)

Chris.

Colin.Doran
28.09.2008, 21:53
Well I really enjoyed the weekend in Harrogate espcially coming away with a win well done to all at Lostock Hall I really have enjoyed the run up to the contest last week and the hard work paid off. It's nice to be able to give somthing back to one of the first bands I played with. This was my first ever national finals with a band and it was good to come away smiling, I think I would of done anyway regardless of the result it was a nice experiance, even after all the other contests I have done. This this one will go with them in the old scrap book.

Colin Doran BBb bass Monkey

CubbRep
28.09.2008, 22:05
No problem mate.How did you find the stage?last year when Cubbington played we couldnt hear the percussion.But like i said its the taking part that counts .And the experience that goes with it.
See you on Wednesday.

Sanders
29.09.2008, 12:43
not impressed either by 4BR coverage, but what i found interesting was our adjudicators comments, after slating most of the piece (especially Wormald) mainly for tuning issues in our horn section, they seemed to tack a bit on the end congratulating us for getting so far... anyone else see this sort of thing on the comments? ive go a feeling they added it after when they reallised we were debutants!

Masterblaster jnr
29.09.2008, 15:43
yeah, we had barely anything if not nothing on the part of things to commend. All ours were bad.

To be blunt, we started very poorly, but as the piece wore on we got better and better, yet no good remarks. I feel that if the piece starts badly, the adjudicators are more inclined to look for things to criticise than if it starts well they will look for things to commend and maybe even let a couple of errors made by the band off whereas if a band started poorly, they could be docked points for the errors.

P.S Is anyone else sick to death of 'you're all winners because you all are regional champions'. What about runners up and/or thirds?

Aurora771
30.09.2008, 01:31
Masterblaster jnr, you play for Skelmanthorpe B? Some people in my band heard yours and thought you guys played very well. But I agree, I think that if your beginning isn't at a certain standard the adjudicators get all moody on you.

About the 4barsest coverage. It was very silly, and I'm not too happy with it either. What I was wondering was whether there was going to be a proper review? These were only live comments, so how is it suppose to be a detailed review? However, if this is the way they treat the 4th Section, do we really want their opinion?

brassbandmaestro
30.09.2008, 08:37
MightyForester, I was straight to the point about what I said to them, re the 4th Section attitude. I never mince my words when something like that is concerned!!

blasterbates
30.09.2008, 12:08
Masterblaster jnr, you play for Skelmanthorpe B? Some people in my band heard yours and thought you guys played very well. But I agree, I think that if your beginning isn't at a certain standard the adjudicators get all moody on you.

Hear Hear!

About the 4barsest coverage. It was very silly, and I'm not too happy with it either. What I was wondering was whether there was going to be a proper review? These were only live comments, so how is it suppose to be a detailed review? However, if this is the way they treat the 4th Section, do we really want their opinion?

Yep - you'll see the 'contest retrospectives' appear a few days afterwards with some pictures, but don't expect to read a lot about your band if you weren't in the top 6 as they tend to get a bit "collective" in their comments after that.

dizzy winslade
08.10.2008, 18:14
Croft might have done better if some players had stopped at one drink on the Friday night.