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Di
17.02.2008, 21:33
Click on "tMP Predictions" at the top of the page
to be taken to Prediction Central

London & Southern Counties Regional Championships
Championship Section
Test Piece : Festival Music, Eric Ball
Sunday 16th March
Venue : Arts & Leisure Centre, Stevenage
Adjudicator: David Horsfield



Participating Bands:

Aveley and Newham, N Taken
Bedford Town, J Berryman
Broseley Brass MK , P Fensom
Clacton-on-Sea Co-operative, R Nunnery
Haverhill Silver, M Ager
KM Medway, M White
Kidlington Concert Brass, C Underwood
Redbridge Brass, TBA
Staines Brass, TBA
Wantage Silver 'A', P Bailey
Welwyn Garden City, D Stokes
Zone One Brass, P Archibald

***************************************

London & Southern Counties Regional Championships
First Section
Test Piece : James Cook Circumnavigator, Gilbert Vinter
Saturday 15th March
Venue : Arts & Leisure Centre, Stevenage
Adjudicator: David Horsfield



Participating Bands:

Becontree Brass, G Chambers
Cawston, C Swaep
City of Cambridge, P Bassano
Denham Hendon, G Davies
Egham, G Green
Friary Guildford, C King
Horsham Borough, K Maxwell
Ipswich and Norwich Co-op, R Norman
Jersey Premier Brass, T Pritchard
Matthews Norfolk Brass, D Stowell
Northfleet Brass, A Austin
Regent Brass, A Duguid
Sandhurst Silver, I McElligot
Soham Comrades, G Sheldon
St Albans City, D Shead

***************************************

London & Southern Counties Regional Championships
Second Section
Test Piece : Three Part Invention, Kenneth Downie
Sunday 16th March
Venue : Arts & Leisure Centre, Stevenage
Adjudicator: Steve Pritchard-Jones

Participating Bands :

Alder Valley Brass, R Burke
Betteshanger, T Vinall
Capital Concert Brass, T Brotherhood
Chichester City, J Williams
Chinnor Silver, D Pegram
East London Brass, J Murrill
Epping Forest, M Easener
Epsom and Ewell Silver, E Howard
Fairlop Brass, K Jordan
Grimsdyke Brass, S Broughall
Norfolk Wherry Brass, G Barber
Thundersley Brass, R Morris
Tilbury, D Lewis
Ware Brass, P Littlemore
Yiewsley and West Drayton, C Cole

***************************************

London & Southern Counties Regional Championships
Third Section
Test Piece : The Dark Side of the Moon, Paul Lovatt-Cooper
Saturday 15th March
Venue : Arts & Leisure Centre, Stevenage
Adjudicator: Steve Pritchard-Jones



Participating Bands :

BAE Systems, K Woodger
Brighton and Hove City Brass, M Hackett
Chalgrove, M Pegram
Croydon Brass, P Martin
E.P.B, I Mitchell
Fulham, S Jones
Great Yarmouth Brass, S Philpot
Hangleton, M Pollard
Hitchin Town, M Hurrell
Hungerford Town, T Crouter
L.G.B.. Brass, I Stewart
Littleport Brass, N Bramley
St Sebastian Wokingham, A Porter
Stantonbury Brass, A Jenkin
Uckfield Concert Brass, S McIntyre
Waterbeach Brass, J Utting
Woodbridge Excelsior, A Duguid

***************************************
London & Southern Counties Regional Championships
Fourth Section
Test Piece : Four Cities Symphony, Rodney Newton
Sunday 16th March
Venue : Arts & Leisure Centre, Stevenage
Adjudicator: Cpt. P Norley


Participating Bands:

Amersham, A Duguid
Battle Town Band, J Penton
Bletchington Silver, N Hall
Bradwell Silver, C Johnston
Broseley (MK) Development, D Johnston
Charles Church Camberley, R Cherry
Cobham Band, D Ruel
Cold Ash Brass, M Clark
Crystal Palace 'B' Band, I Whittaker
Fakenham Town, D Wakefield
Harwich R.B.L, A Sanders
Hemel Hempstead, G Weeks
Hilgay Silver, K Beckett
Jubilee Brass (Oxford), C Sadler
Kings Lynn Town, P Mole
Letchworth Garden City, T Welch
Newmarket Town Brass, L Ager
Oxford Templas Brass, J Davis
Royston Band, S Jones
Snowdown Colliery Welfare, K Twyman
Tadley Concert Brass, Chapman
Wantage Silver 'B' , D Dulforce
Watford, R Graves

Information courtesy http://www.regional-contest.org.uk/london/index.php

2nd trom virtuoso
18.02.2008, 11:33
I'll do the honours then... ;)

Anyone know a cheap hotel in Stevenage?


And how are preperations going with everyone etc...

Daniel Sheard
18.02.2008, 12:40
What's happened to Alliance Brass? Have they ceased to contest?

MoominDave
18.02.2008, 12:45
When I helped out Staines before Christmas, they seemed to think that it was very unlikely that they were going to be able to raise a full band for the areas.

MoominDave
18.02.2008, 12:50
And with no Staines, no Alliance [who were demoted last year - but well spotted, Daniel, they're not listed in the 1st section, are they?], Redbridge under a new conductor, a lot of band names that are pretty fresh to the top, and an unusual piece, the championship section could finish in pretty much any order at all.

Reckon this might be ZOB's year...

WhatSharp?
18.02.2008, 13:08
1st sections going to be a close call too.. any one of about 5 bands could take it...

Owen S
18.02.2008, 14:08
Good to see two bands returning to contesting after a long time away: Roger Burke has taken over at Alder Valley, and they've been put into the second section, plus Uckfield have gone into the third.

1st sections going to be a close call too.. any one of about 5 bands could take it...
True Steve, who were you thinking of? I'd say Cambridge, Friary, Horsham, Ipswich, Regent and Sandhurst should all do well going on recent results, and many of the rest seem to be progressing well too. How are Denham's preparations going?

Accidental
18.02.2008, 15:52
2nd trom virtusoso - The Ibis hotel is staggering distance from the hall, twin rooms are 37 per night. You'll be sharing with half of Friary though :wink:

Daniel - Alliance are no more. Some of their players have popped up in other bands in the region.

Alder Valley had issues with numbers for a while, but they only actually missed one year and they dropped to 2nd section on points. They're doing really well with Roger now, so could have a very good day.
Uckfield is a different story - this will be their first area since 1999 and they've been on the brink of folding more than once since then. They seem to be back with a vengeance now, going for the areas and our local association :)

I know I'm biased, but in this time of declining numbers and bands folding, its fantastic to see both bands contesting again, and they really deserve to do well at Stevenage.

WhatSharp?
18.02.2008, 16:09
True Steve, who were you thinking of? I'd say Cambridge, Friary, Horsham, Ipswich, Regent and Sandhurst should all do well going on recent results, and many of the rest seem to be progressing well too. How are Denham's preparations going?

Pretty much the same ( though I think Soham could be in there too ), not sure how Regent and Horsham are doing recently but Friary, Cambridge, Ipswich and Sandhurst are showing good form at the mo.

We're doing well at the mo (certainly working hard for it :D ), looks like we'll have a good sized turnout this year ( though still missing a couple of seats ).

Daisy Duck
18.02.2008, 18:46
Reckon this might be ZOB's year...

I agree, but I have a personal bias!

This is going to be my first ever regional contest - very excited!
I really hope Uckfield do well in the 3rd section.
And of course I hope Battle don't do too badly in the 4th section...

2nd trom virtuoso
18.02.2008, 20:10
Reckon this might be ZOB's year...

If they have the same band and personel as last year they will ride it. Players move on etc. I know a couple of great players still there though, should be more than capable :p

MoominDave
18.02.2008, 20:24
Don't think they'll "ride it", however many great players they have...
The lack of rehearsal time they get is what always counts against them - but maybe not so much is needed on this piece; and hopefully music college students will have a decent idea about what Mozart should sound like.

It's unwise to write off either Aveley or Redbridge! After all, one or the other of them has won this contest every year since before the turn of the century.

lauren
18.02.2008, 20:30
If they have the same band and personel as last year they will ride it. Players move on etc. I know a couple of great players still there though, should be more than capable :p


If Yeovil was anything to go by though it could go either way for them on the day. They just never quite hit it off although a good result the next day at Preston showed they can do it when they put their mind to it. I have heard them on cracking form before, lets just hope they can live up to that again.

Keith
19.02.2008, 01:22
Yep......... its going to be very interesting in the champ section this year. ZOB are pretty much the same as last year, with one or two additions (including me!). In terms of rehearsals; as of Sunday I want have many spare evenings until after the areas. Off the top of my head I think we have 4 rehearsals in a week, 2 weeks before the comp. After that I think I blacked out, after reading that on my rehearsal schedual!! :eek:

Anyway....... good luck to all bands, especially the ones i've been hanging around with over the last few months. :tup

PeterBale
19.02.2008, 01:34
Looking forward to hearing the Championship Section this year having missed it last year. Also hearing good reports of Zone One, who many thought were unlucky to miss out last year. With Rob Wiffen and Paul Archibald at the helm of Redbridge and Zone One respectively, we should be in for an interesting day ;)

2nd trom virtuoso
19.02.2008, 11:34
Looking forward to hearing the Championship Section this year having missed it last year. Also hearing good reports of Zone One, who many thought were unlucky to miss out last year. With Rob Wiffen and Paul Archibald at the helm of Redbridge and Zone One respectively, we should be in for an interesting day ;)

You might not be far off there - Redbridge and ZOB 1st and 2nd?? or either way around!

Not sure how A & N are doing with their vacancy situations etc although they are still sure to put up a strong fight. Havn't heard much from them lately.

Will be an interesting 1st section too...

lauren
19.02.2008, 11:58
Will be an interesting 1st section too...

Wishing Friary Guildford the best of luck in the 1st section. Hope that they can continue their recent success on the contest stage....even without their lucky player!!!!!! :p

Accidental
19.02.2008, 13:25
I don't think we can do without our lucky charm - you'll have to sneak up to the stage and sit with us :wink:

lauren
19.02.2008, 13:31
I don't think we can do without our lucky charm - you'll have to sneak up to the stage and sit with us :wink:

I will sit as close as possible then to the stage...although not too close to Rich otherwise will get the blame for putting him off...!! ;)

mjwarman
20.02.2008, 00:09
I have heard on the grape vine that Robert Childs is no longer doing the adjudication for the champ section as he is going into hospital for an operation on the Friday before, does anyone know who is taking his place? My source didn't have that information to hand, he said it was someone with a surname beginning with H that used to play cornet for Dyke and Faireys, (Hudson? I can't think of anymore!!)

Adamskied
20.02.2008, 03:26
I will sit as close as possible then to the stage...although not too close to Rich otherwise will get the blame for putting him off...!! ;)
Yes...dont put him off, we dont want it down the octave again...lol

Only joking Rich, you can punch me at practice tonight...:eek:

Keith
20.02.2008, 08:49
I have heard on the grape vine that Robert Childs is no longer doing the adjudication for the champ section as he is going into hospital for an operation on the Friday before, does anyone know who is taking his place? My source didn't have that information to hand, he said it was someone with a surname beginning with H that used to play cornet for Dyke and Faireys, (Hudson? I can't think of anymore!!)


Its David Horsfield thats doing the adjudicating for the 1st and champ section.

If my facts are right then he was playing principle for Brighouse when Eric Ball was conducting them.

Accidental
20.02.2008, 09:32
Band secs should all have had notification of the change of adjudicator by post last week - so if yours hasn't told you yet, kick 'em!

I've been trawling through our old records to see if Mr H has ever adjudicted us before but don't think he has - does anyone have insight into his 'style'? Any major likes or dislikes?

davidquinlan
20.02.2008, 10:24
does anyone have insight into his 'style'? Any major likes or dislikes?


He loves overblowing, no vib and bad intonation... ;)

lauren
20.02.2008, 10:25
I've been trawling through our old records to see if Mr H has ever adjudicted us before but don't think he has - does anyone have insight into his 'style'? Any major likes or dislikes?
Rich got me to look that up....only one I can find is that he adjudicated Crawley 2003...got no results yet though...maybe you can check if you entered and how you did.

lauren
20.02.2008, 10:26
Yes...dont put him off, we dont want it down the octave again...lol
Only joking Rich, you can punch me at practice tonight...:eek:
Don't think he's ever going to live that one down!

Ipswich trom
20.02.2008, 11:30
He loves overblowing, no vib and bad intonation... ;)

LOL, and don't forget the entries in the wrong place, splits, mutes being dropped and bad ensemble playing.

WhatSharp?
20.02.2008, 12:05
LOL, and don't forget the entries in the wrong place, splits, mutes being dropped and bad ensemble playing.

and his pet peeve is sticking to the marked tempos!

Bungle
20.02.2008, 12:41
Well it's been nine years since I last played at Stevenange and the memory has diminished sufficiently for me to have my arm twisted to help out Uckfield on Bb this year. There will also be three other cornets helping out from Cranbrook who are experiencing Stevenage for the first time. I'm trying to thing of something good about it to tell them about.

Chunky
20.02.2008, 12:49
I'm trying to thing of something good about it to tell them about.

Access to the A1 to leave Stevenage by is quite easy from the Leisure Centre.

Will the Sec
20.02.2008, 13:29
A Tesco store is next door - convenient for head ache pills, lip salve, bottles of water, vaseline and Mr Muscle.

Ipswich trom
20.02.2008, 13:33
Rail station is right alonside for an extra quick getaway if you don't drive. Parking is reasonable, especially if you play on the Sunday.

Red Elvis
20.02.2008, 13:35
I'm particularly looking forward to the nasty fizzy keg "bitter" in the bar and the TV with dodgy reception so that I can't see the rugby properly !! . Once again t'committee have staged the First section on the afternoon of the last round of six nations !!

MoominDave
20.02.2008, 13:35
And beyond Tesco is a cricket field - you can sit on the grass, eating your Tesco lunch, pretending you're not in Stevenage on a Sunday at a brass band contest.

WhatSharp?
20.02.2008, 13:41
I'm particularly looking forward to the nasty fizzy keg "bitter" in the bar and the TV with dodgy reception so that I can't see the rugby properly !! . Once again t'committee have staged the First section on the afternoon of the last round of six nations !!

yeh typical!. They need to get a big screen Tv in there. Wetherspoons might show it.

Ipswich trom
20.02.2008, 13:42
I'm particularly looking forward to the nasty fizzy keg "bitter" in the bar and the TV with dodgy reception so that I can't see the rugby properly !! . Once again t'committee have staged the First section on the afternoon of the last round of six nations !!

You know very well we will be drawn at the optimum time to ensure you miss all the Rugby lol! It was the Rugby organisers that put it on the same day as our section, not the other way around!

Perchance we do get a chance to see the game, you might be better off at the Wetherspooons pub just in the square nearby!

Veri
20.02.2008, 15:14
As of last year, you can even get a reasonable cup of coffee, in the newly opened Costa's.

Avoid the cafe in the venue, very expensive.

2nd trom virtuoso
20.02.2008, 17:05
Does anyone know whether we will have to pay extra to go and hear our own or other sections ??

I think it cost me about 10 last time!!! Hmmmm

lauren
20.02.2008, 17:13
Does anyone know whether we will have to pay extra to go and hear our own or other sections ??
I think it cost me about 10 last time!!! Hmmmm

This is what Dave Hobbs and his team have decided this year for ticket prices after many complaints over the last couple of years:

In response to feedback we have received in previous years, we have changed the ticket price structure for 2008 in order to make it easier for supporters and players to listen to performances.

Since most families present on the day will have one adult playing with a band and, therefore, holding a bandsmans ticket, we have change the family ticket to cover one adult and children. We have also reduced its price to only 12. We feel this represents excellent value for money and we hope it will enable more families to hear their bands performances.
We have halved the cost of a transfer to only 2.The ticket prices for the 2008 contest are as follows:

Adult 9.50
Over 60s 7.00
Under 16s 7.00
Family (*1) 12.00
Weekend (*2) 12.00
Exchange (*3) 2.00

Notes:
A family ticket admits a single adult and children to any section on one day (either Saturday or Sunday). N.B. This has changed from last year
A weekend ticket is valid for entry to all sections on both the Saturday and Sunday
A bandsman's ticket, which entitles the holder to listen to his own section only may be exchanged for a full entrance ticket for any section on the day

lauren
20.02.2008, 17:17
I think it is a good idea that they are allowing us into our own section again to support other bands. They wondered why in previous years the sections are so badly supported when we have to pay to listen to others in our own section.
I will be going to listen to the 1st section on the Saturday (will be competing in the 2nd section on Sunday) and will be listening to the championship section in the Sunday afternoon so the weekend ticket overall is very good value for money I think.

Chunky
20.02.2008, 17:52
I think it is a good idea that they are allowing us into our own section again to support other bands. They wondered why in previous years the sections are so badly supported when we have to pay to listen to others in our own section.


I have never been charged for listening to my own section, my Bandsmans ticket has always got me entry to my section, should I wish to listen to any other bands. Usually just go in for the results.

Ipswich trom
20.02.2008, 19:18
I have never been charged for listening to my own section, my Bandsmans ticket has always got me entry to my section, should I wish to listen to any other bands. Usually just go in for the results.

This is true, we have never had to pay to hear other bands in our own section. We have also always been able to get a discounted ticket for other sections on either day by showing our Bandsmens tickets.

brassbandmaestro
20.02.2008, 20:05
Its always sad when bands fold up, etc, but with the resurgence of Uckfield CB, that would prove rather interestingb, even though its the third section,(but what the heck they are there) as I here they have a pretty good line up of players.

Chunky
21.02.2008, 09:51
This is true, we have never had to pay to hear other bands in our own section. We have also always been able to get a discounted ticket for other sections on either day by showing our Bandsmens tickets.

Thank's for the confirmation Ian. My recollections of Stevenage always seem somewhat hazy! ;)

brassbandmaestro
21.02.2008, 10:02
May see some of you guys at Stevenage, even though my band is not competing.

lauren
21.02.2008, 10:09
This is true, we have never had to pay to hear other bands in our own section. We have also always been able to get a discounted ticket for other sections on either day by showing our Bandsmens tickets.
I am pretty sure that last year we weren't allowed into our own section by just showing our bandsman ticket. I definitely remember being made to go to the box office and buy a reduced price ticket to go and listen to my own section.

mjwarman
21.02.2008, 10:28
It mentions the exchange that is 2, but how much would it be to exchange the bandsmans ticket for a weekend ticket, I'm playing on the Saturday, and would quite like to go back on the Sunday and listen. That can't be only 2 surely?

lauren
21.02.2008, 10:40
It mentions the exchange that is 2, but how much would it be to exchange the bandsmans ticket for a weekend ticket, I'm playing on the Saturday, and would quite like to go back on the Sunday and listen. That can't be only 2 surely?
I spoke to Dave Hobbs about this...and to be honest got a little confused along the way!! From what I understand though, you can only exchange your ticket to get entry to another section on the same day that you are playing (which would cost you 2). Therefore the way I read it, if you are just going to watch on Sunday you have to buy a separate ticket at the cost of 9.50 which will allow you entry to all sections on that day......??!!!
To be honest I still don't quite understand it. :confused: Maybe someone else can translate it????

2nd trom virtuoso
21.02.2008, 10:46
I am pretty sure that last year we weren't allowed into our own section by just showing our bandsman ticket. I definitely remember being made to go to the box office and buy a reduced price ticket to go and listen to my own section.

Same here, I was made to pay to listen to my own section.

I don't think the bandsmen ticket got you anything - although by the sounds of things hopefully this year that has changed! Definatly wasn't on.


Matt

Chunky
21.02.2008, 11:06
I spoke to Dave Hobbs about this...and to be honest got a little confused along the way!! From what I understand though, you can only exchange your ticket to get entry to another section on the same day that you are playing (which would cost you 2). Therefore the way I read it, if you are just going to watch on Sunday you have to buy a separate ticket at the cost of 9.50 which will allow you entry to all sections on that day......??!!!
To be honest I still don't quite understand it. :confused: Maybe someone else can translate it????

OK Lauren here is my interpretation! (Based on playing Saturday!

If you are a competing bandsman you will be given a ticket for your section, which as always gives you free access to your section. If you were told last year that your ticket was not valid for your section, that was an error on the part of the hall staff.

If on the day of your contest you want to stay and listen to another section you take your bandsmans ticket to the box office and exchange it at the price of 2.

Therefore cost for day one is 2!

You return on day 2 and you are not competing therefore you have to buy tickets at the appropriate rate! It seems that you would have to pay 9.50 per section! Therefore a weekend ticket for 12 would be the best option.

Hope this helps!

Ipswich trom
21.02.2008, 11:45
Same here, I was made to pay to listen to my own section.

I don't think the bandsmen ticket got you anything - although by the sounds of things hopefully this year that has changed! Definatly wasn't on.


Matt

You were done mate! Your bandsmans ticket has always entitled
you to get in to watch other bands in your own section. I have been doing this contest since 1997 and it has always been the case.

Last year I came back on the Sunday to watch the Championship and 3rd Sections and I got a ticket at a reduced rate but can't remember how much it was.

lauren
21.02.2008, 11:56
You must have been very lucky to get away with it.
I thought I was going crazy when others said they didn't pay, so i've checked with a few others and they said they had to pay too. Hence all the complaints and they have changed it this year.

Chunky
21.02.2008, 11:57
I have been doing this contest since 1997 and it has always been the case.



Thanks Ian, you have now made me feel really old now that I have worked out how long it is I have been doing the L & SC area!

Veri
21.02.2008, 12:05
I remember hearing a lot of the first section, but I don't recall paying!

Bungle
21.02.2008, 12:06
Its always sad when bands fold up, etc, but with the resurgence of Uckfield CB, that would prove rather interestingb, even though its the third section,(but what the heck they are there) as I here they have a pretty good line up of players.

I admire your optimism, but players have to come from somewhere and in the south east it is usually at the expense of another band. e.g. for a worst case example, if a band needs twelve players, that could mean taking three players from four bands, leaving four bands that can't contest. Not so good eh.

Chunky
21.02.2008, 12:08
You must have been very lucky to get away with it.
I thought I was going crazy when others said they didn't pay, so i've checked with a few others and they said they had to pay too. Hence all the complaints and they have changed it this year.

Were these people just your own band Lauren? Also what day did you compete? I still believe it was an error by hall staff, I go back further than Ipswichtrom and have never paid!

I know for a fact 95% of our band were in the hall come results time last year. Given the nature of the people in our band and how well I know them, given the option of having to pay for a ticket or buy another beer they would choose beer!

lauren
21.02.2008, 12:24
Were these people just your own band Lauren? Also what day did you compete? I still believe it was an error by hall staff, I go back further than Ipswichtrom and have never paid!
I was playing in the third section and it happened to a number of people there, and also several people who were playing in the championship section on the Sunday. Getting into the results wasn't a problem but they would not let you into the hall with just a competitiors ticket when bands were playing. Maybe 3rd section was just unfortunate with the steward on the door.

andywooler
21.02.2008, 12:27
I admire your optimism, but players have to come from somewhere and in the south east it is usually at the expense of another band. e.g. for a worst case example, if a band needs twelve players, that could mean taking three players from four bands, leaving four bands that can't contest. Not so good eh.It is worth pointing out that in Uckfield's case, a large number of the "new" players are actually returning players - of the current band, 14 are players who were in the band the last time it was succesful in the 90's - how many bands can say that they have over 50% of the same people over 10 yrs later?

Chunky
21.02.2008, 12:35
I was playing in the third section and it happened to a number of people there, and also several people who were playing in the championship section on the Sunday. Getting into the results wasn't a problem but they would not let you into the hall with just a competitiors ticket when bands were playing. Maybe 3rd section was just unfortunate with the steward on the door.

Think the steward is the problem there Lauren. I know several people from 1st section bands who wanted to come in to hear the 2nd section results last year and were not allowed to as they did not have a 2nd section ticket!

I can understand not allowing people in during performances but in the Sports Hall its not as though they are short of seating!

Problem solved for us this year as the 1st section follows the 3rd so we will not be starting till mid afternoon and there will be no other sections to listen to!

2nd trom virtuoso
21.02.2008, 13:27
You were done mate! Your bandsmans ticket has always entitled
you to get in to watch other bands in your own section. I have been doing this contest since 1997 and it has always been the case.

Last year I came back on the Sunday to watch the Championship and 3rd Sections and I got a ticket at a reduced rate but can't remember how much it was.

Im Gutted! :( lol

Christine Wade
21.02.2008, 13:28
There have been several messages regarding ticket prices at the L&SC regional contest. As Treasurer I am possibly the best person to answer the queries.


We have never charged admission for a player to hear the bands in the section in which they are competing. The bandsmans ticket is sufficient to gain access to the hall.
The adult/over60s tickets etc are per day not per section.
The bandsman exchange tickets allow you to listen to other sections on the same day as the one you are competing in. The cost of this ticket has been reduced from last year and is 2.00.If anyone has any queries regarding tickets when at Stevenage please come and find me and I will try to sort the matter out.

Christine Wade
Treasurer
L&SC

Ipswich trom
21.02.2008, 13:48
There have been several messages regarding ticket prices at the L&SC regional contest. As Treasurer I am possibly the best person to answer the queries.


We have never charged admission for a player to hear the bands in the section in which they are competing. The bandsmans ticket is sufficient to gain access to the hall.
The adult/over60s tickets etc are per day not per section.
The bandsman exchange tickets allow you to listen to other sections on the same day as the one you are competing in. The cost of this ticket has been reduced from last year and is 2.00.If anyone has any queries regarding tickets when at Stevenage please come and find me and I will try to sort the matter out.

Christine Wade
Treasurer
L&SC

Thanks Christine,
I knew Chunky and I were right on this one but it seems some people had a bit of a raw deal courtesy of the centre staff last year.

Just one question, do we still get discount for the other day with our bandsmans ticket and if so, what is the price?

brassbandmaestro
21.02.2008, 22:02
How much is it to get in for an ordinary spectator then? Like me, there must be other bandspeople out there going b ut whose band is not competing.

PeterBale
21.02.2008, 23:41
How much is it to get in for an ordinary spectator then? Like me, there must be other bandspeople out there going but whose band is not competing.

As posted earlier in this thread:


The ticket prices for the 2008 contest are as follows:

Adult 9.50
Over 60s 7.00
Under 16s 7.00
Family (*1) 12.00
Weekend (*2) 12.00
Exchange (*3) 2.00

Depending on your age, therefore, it would cost either 9.50 or 7.00.

Jasonp
23.02.2008, 13:35
When I helped out Staines before Christmas, they seemed to think that it was very unlikely that they were going to be able to raise a full band for the areas.

We'll be there Dave, see you next month dude :tup

MoominDave
23.02.2008, 16:49
Excellent to hear it's turned around, people were pretty pessimistic in early Dec. Good luck!

Red Elvis
04.03.2008, 09:52
"Bump"....
Ok , just under two weeks to go . Any comrades from the 1st section fancy meeting in the car park afterwards for a ceremonial burning of JCC ?!!:)

Chunky
04.03.2008, 10:18
"Bump"....
Ok , just under two weeks to go . Any comrades from the 1st section fancy meeting in the car park afterwards for a ceremonial burning of JCC ?!!:)

There with you brother! Perhaps the bar might be a better option tho!

yank67
04.03.2008, 10:47
I will bring the lighter! Can we burn any thing or "anyone" else?

WhatSharp?
04.03.2008, 11:01
I actually quite like JC, could think of plenty of other candidates for cremation... Images of the Millenium ( 2006 remix ), Celestial Prospect, actually we could start a whole thread on "Most Hated Test Piece" :D

Chunky
04.03.2008, 11:02
I will bring the lighter! Can we burn any thing or "anyone" else?

Now now Mr Yank, your country has a reputation for 'friendly fire,' I think we should just stick to JCC

yank67
04.03.2008, 11:26
Sorry, put it down to test piece tention!:oops:

Ipswich trom
04.03.2008, 13:04
"Bump"....
Ok , just under two weeks to go . Any comrades from the 1st section fancy meeting in the car park afterwards for a ceremonial burning of JCC ?!!:)


There with you brother! Perhaps the bar might be a better option tho!


I will bring the lighter! Can we burn any thing or "anyone" else?

Flippin' Bass players, always moaning. By the way, we are including it in a few concerts later in the year lol!

Red Elvis
04.03.2008, 13:11
Flippin' Bass players, always moaning. By the way, we are including it in a few concerts later in the year lol!


Great ! A wider audience will get to appreciate our free-form jazz-impro rendition of the 6's then !! :)

Ipswich trom
04.03.2008, 13:13
LOL, I was going to say that but didn't want to upset you. When you have 12 notes to play in a beat like us Troms, then you can moan!

yank67
04.03.2008, 13:20
But you are used to moving your arm quickly;)

Chunky
04.03.2008, 13:23
LOL, I was going to say that but didn't want to upset you. When you have 12 notes to play in a beat like us Troms, then you can moan!

I believe that is called a glissando?

And as Yank said you do move your arm quicker than us basses? Perhaps we shall see that deft arm movement towards your wallet and purchasing us moaners with the beer we richly deserve!;)

yank67
04.03.2008, 13:27
Real Ale please!!:clap:

Chunky
04.03.2008, 13:49
make that 2 please!

Red Elvis
05.03.2008, 10:25
Fat chance of that in the bar - fizzy keg stuff only if memory serves . I generally have to drink at least ten until it tastes ok !!

yank67
05.03.2008, 10:41
I keep telling you that you have to get out of the sport centre for real beer!

Bass Trumpet
05.03.2008, 10:41
LOL, I was going to say that but didn't want to upset you. When you have 12 notes to play in a beat like us Troms, then you can moan!

Is it 12? I'd better have another look at it, then.....

Damn glasses...

Bass Trumpet
05.03.2008, 12:40
I've just had a good look at the runners and riders for this contest and I honestly think that the section to watch this year is the 1st. I certainly mean no disrespect to the Championship bands, but the L&SC has always been a three or four horse race in that section. However, the 1st section not only has newly relegated bands who are willing to move mountains to get back into the top flight, but also some very tasty bands who have put in some cracking performances of late. I think this is the most wide-open contest of the lot.

Having looked down the line, there are at least three bands wanting to get back up after relegation; Regent, Soham, Friary. Also, there are bands who have traditionally been very strong but have been through changes, like Denham Hendon and Matthews Turkeys (as they're known locally :oops:). Also, there are bands like Ipswich and Cambridge who have put in consistantly good performances over the past couple of years and both need one more good result to secure promotion.

My own best wishes go to Egham and Cawston who have both been recently promoted to the section. It really is amazing how well Cawston has improved on such limited resources - top marks to Chunky and the team.

I am really looking forward to this section. If anybody sees me in the bar during the contest, please take my beer off me and thrown me back into the hall!

Good luck to all!

Chunky
05.03.2008, 12:49
[quote=Bass Trumpet;585403]

It really is amazing how well Cawston has improved on such limited resources - top marks to Chunky and the team.

quote]

:oops: Thanks for that Duncan. The limited resource we do have is the best kind - the players of the band who graft for everything we have and expect nothing in return.

Accidental
05.03.2008, 13:11
I agree the 1st section is the one to watch this year, but the top section could throw up some surprises too. Several bands in both sections have changed a lot since the last area (some beyond all recognition!) so I think there's potential for some quite unexpected results.

Interesting comments about the relegated bands Duncan - what do you mean by 'moving mountains'? I've had a good play with the grading tables and reckon even if we or Soham won we'd be unlikely to go straight back up because of the points from 05 & 06. We're just going to turn up with our regular players and do the best we can! And (I'm being really picky, sorry!) aren't Ipswich & Northfleet more recently relegated than Regent?

2nd trom virtuoso
05.03.2008, 14:27
Looks like it will be very difficult for either Friary or Soham to get back up, although its all dependant on results from 2 or 3 recent close runners like Ipswich/Cambridge. They get a top 3 then I dont think we have got much of a chance. I know that Soham will be more than happy to obtain a solid top half result regardless, best chances of promotion for ourselves and Friary will be next year.

Will make for a very interesting 1st section come the results however ;)

Bass Trumpet
05.03.2008, 14:35
what do you mean by 'moving mountains'?

Just a figure of speech! I suppose what I mean is that, when a band is relegated, they have real determination and drive to get back up. A bit like when a football team is relegated, they spend the next season playing with such dogged determination to get back! I know all about that one, being a Charlton supporter!

Best of luck next week.

btw. You are probably right about Ipswich and Northfleet. I haven't studied things too carefully!

Will the Sec
05.03.2008, 14:45
I'm going to be happy with a solid mid table position. Becontree have bounced back nicely since GC took over, and might surprise a few people (including ourselves!) with a respectable finish.

Ipswich trom
05.03.2008, 14:51
Is it 12? I'd better have another look at it, then.....

Damn glasses...

Actually, it's only 9 but I wanted to wind the basses up a bit!

:biggrin:

Chunky
05.03.2008, 14:53
Actually, it's only 9 but I wanted to wind the basses up a bit!

:biggrin:

12's / 6's / 9's whatever Ian! We as reasonable methodical people on the bass section will take them one note at a time and if you fancy slide boys have to wait for us so be it! ;)

yank67
05.03.2008, 15:18
Well said my good man! Make them wait!

Ipswich trom
05.03.2008, 15:20
Well said my good man! Make them wait!

We don't get much choice, anyway, the Euphs play most of your notes for you don't they.

Chunky
05.03.2008, 15:30
We don't get much choice, anyway, the Euphs play most of your notes for you don't they.

Ouch !!!! Wish they would, will have a word tonight!

Accidental
05.03.2008, 17:35
when a band is relegated, they have real determination and drive to get back up. A bit like when a football team is relegated, they spend the next season playing with such dogged determination to get back!
You're not wrong there..... I just panicked for a moment and thought we should/could be doing more :rolleyes:

And I'm glad I'm not the only one who fiddles with the tables 2nd trom - I think both bands have a very similar approach and hopes this year!

Chunky
05.03.2008, 17:40
You're not wrong there..... I just panicked for a moment and thought we should/could be doing more :rolleyes:

And I'm glad I'm not the only one who fiddles with the tables 2nd trom - I think both bands have a very similar approach and hopes this year!

I have had a little fiddle too! As its our first year ever in the 1st section hoping it won't be our only!

brassbandmaestro
06.03.2008, 08:28
I always felt, that in some ways the 1st Section is probably the most diffciult section in any contest. Mainly, because you have the Championship Section bands being relegated and with that, the standard of play is always going to just that one nothch more to climb up. Ok, I know there those bands that surpass this, but in the main really I do think this is probably the most diffuclt section, apart from the Championship.

2nd trom virtuoso
06.03.2008, 08:37
I always felt, that in some ways the 1st Section is probably the most diffciult section in any contest. Mainly, because you have the Championship Section bands being relegated and with that, the standard of play is always going to just that one nothch more to climb up. Ok, I know there those bands that surpass this, but in the main really I do think this is probably the most diffuclt section, apart from the Championship.

I agree, its one of the hardest sections. Maybe, and this is my own opinion, there should be more bands competing in the championship section? The only way they could do that is by changing the relegation set-up though - maybe a few years with just 1 band relegated max? Not sure

Chunky
06.03.2008, 10:34
Of course it's one of the hardest sections, it's one below the hardest!

All joking apart how will expanding the top section help? You promote bands more easily into a section they are possibly not ready for.

Most bands progress out of a section when they are capable.

In my opinion keeping the top section elitist keeps it stronger and ensures only the best survive.

Red Elvis
06.03.2008, 10:36
I'm going to be happy with a solid mid table position. Becontree have bounced back nicely since GC took over, and might surprise a few people (including ourselves!) with a respectable finish.

Hope you get a respectable finish Will . Having heard Bec at Butlins it is obvious that a lot of work has gone in ( and getting rid of the dodgy second euph has probably helped !! :) ) and it was sounding good.Best wishes to all of you !

brassbandmaestro
06.03.2008, 10:39
Always survival of the fittest!!

yank67
06.03.2008, 10:50
Our bass section should do well. Sorry I thought you said survival of the fattest!

Chunky
06.03.2008, 10:57
Our bass section should do well. Sorry I thought you said survival of the fattest!

Perhaps we should have a weigh in! Me and my boys would fancy our chances in a who can eat the most pie's contest!

yank67
06.03.2008, 11:01
Bring it on my man!:clap:

Accidental
06.03.2008, 11:08
how will expanding the top section help? You promote bands more easily into a section they are possibly not ready for.

In my opinion keeping the top section elitist keeps it stronger and ensures only the best survive.
:clap: :clap:
when the areas were last rearranged approx 15 years ago, each area was *meant* to have 12 bands in the top section. If every area stuck to that there would be 96 championship section bands.... but this year only 86 are competing. Based on that number, each area should have a top section of 10 or 11 so ours is already too big.

I don't think 'dumbing down' our top section will help - we're already perceived as the weakest area! Imo there's a stronger argument to change the boundaries again to even out the numbers: increase some areas and reduce the number of bands in our area as a whole.

stevetrom
06.03.2008, 12:11
Imo there's a stronger argument to change the boundaries again to even out the numbers: increase some areas and reduce the number of bands in our area as a whole.

I agree with that, and at the same time even out the size of the sections.

If you limit the top section 10, then do something similar with the 1st 16 and 2nd & 3rd 20.

Bands on the border of 2 areas could move to balance out the numbers

2nd trom virtuoso
06.03.2008, 13:13
Can't say I agree, our area in particular needs better top section bands and the only way to do that is get a few more up there to increase competition. When your up there your always pushing yourself - surely that would help the bands that are on the edge of becoming championship standard anyway

Chunky
06.03.2008, 13:32
Matt - I see to a certain extent the motivation behind your idea.

However - more bands will not always lead to more competition.

1) In a larger section bands may settle for mid-table just to maintain championship status. Thereby not improving the overall standard.

2) Enlargening the top section will weaken all the other sections

3) One of the biggest problems in this area the lack of players. There is only a finite number of top section players available.

You need to prove you are good enough to move up through the sections thats why consistent results at the area will move you up or down!

When the areas were reshuffled the last time one of the criteria was that the top section should contain a maximum of 12 bands in area, so that only the best were in it.

stevetrom
06.03.2008, 13:33
Can't say I agree, our area in particular needs better top section bands and the only way to do that is get a few more up there to increase competition. When your up there your always pushing yourself - surely that would help the bands that are on the edge of becoming championship standard anyway

just because a band is one of the best 12 in an area does not neccessarilly mean that the band is of championship standard.

the southern area needs more bands of a higher standard, move some from midlands, GUS are just outside L&SC catchment area for example, then the standard would be pushed up.

Accidental
06.03.2008, 13:45
I agree it would be great if LSC had better top section bands - but I don't see how making the section bigger and therefore including less good bands will help? Imo the only way to improve the quality of the championship section is to change the area or for individual bands to improve (either by aquiring new players or pulling their finger out and working harder!)

I'm bemused by the implication that the section you're in would automatically change the standard of the band - its only a label after all! I'd like to think if you're doing your best it doesn't make a difference.... you should either be working hard to be promoted or working hard to stay up, so the effort shouldn't really change that much.

And on a personal note, if the only way for my band to get into the top section was by expanding the section rather than on merit, I don't think its worth it.

MoominDave
06.03.2008, 13:55
Matt - having more doesn't increase competition for the top places. It makes mid-table bands more secure, so they don't work so hard to stay up.
Having one or two extra bands in the top section in L&SC would also mean that if a hard piece came up, there would almost certainly be 3 or 4 performances that were seriously substandard.

Steve - given Brackley's position between Oxford and Northampton (where GUS rehearse), I'm suspecting that you're thinking that you'd like Brackley to have a go in L&SC....;) Certainly, I recall the opinion being expressed when I helped out before Christmas that you would be a championship section band in our area. With all of Soham, Regent, and Friary in the L&SC 1st section this year, I think that view becomes untenable.

stevetrom
06.03.2008, 14:08
Steve - given Brackley's position between Oxford and Northampton (where GUS rehearse), I'm suspecting that you're thinking that you'd like Brackley to have a go in L&SC....;) Certainly, I recall the opinion being expressed when I helped out before Christmas that you would be a championship section band in our area. With all of Soham, Regent, and Friary in the L&SC 1st section this year, I think that view becomes untenable.

well we ary trying our hand at the SCABA contests this year, maybe we will get to compete with some of the bands you mention and see how we do, of course they could also come and play at Leamington later in the year andput themselves up against a good number of Midlands (and other area) bands.

The only way L&SC will lose the tag of the weakest area is for more of the bands to compete against bands from other areas.

Chunky
06.03.2008, 14:13
The only way L&SC will lose the tag of the weakest area is for more of the bands to compete against bands from other areas.

Spot on Steve. However as much as I would like our band to compete further afield the cost element stops us from doing it.

We have travelled to Leicester in the past but a coach for the day costs us in excess of 400 !!!

We have a choice either progress more slowly or bankrupt the band. And as we all know money does not always buy success!

Accidental
06.03.2008, 15:16
The only way L&SC will lose the tag of the weakest area is for more of the bands to compete against bands from other areas.

We're doing our bit! ;)

It would be lovely to see more 'outside' bands taking part in SCABA contests too and bringing the competition to us. We're a friendly bunch and the contests are always brilliantly run.

Anyhoo, before we get our wrists slapped for wandering off topic, back to Stevenage...... where are all the peeps from 2nd & 4th section bands, and how's it going?!!

wing
06.03.2008, 16:53
Think of us from Jersey. We would love to come and compete more but it costs us in the region of 6000.00 to come and contest. We have to find the money ourselves cause we have no support from the States of Jersey. If we were a sporting team in Jersey coming over to compete they would throw the money at us!!


Neil. Sop.
Jersey Premier Brass.

Bass Trumpet
06.03.2008, 18:43
We have travelled to Leicester in the past but a coach for the day costs us in excess of 400 !!!


The band I used to conduct (Somersham) got a free coach anywhere and has done for 20 years or so. I don't think the committee ever really appreciated it, though. Shame they're not contesting any more, 'cos they would be one of the few bands that didn't have to factor in the high cost of travel.

I'm really sorry to hear that Jersey band don't get more support from the states government. Hope you can start using the thumbscrews on th fat cats!

Leyfy
06.03.2008, 19:36
Fat chance of that in the bar - fizzy keg stuff only if memory serves . I generally have to drink at least ten until it tastes ok !!

You drink 10 pints again Mr, you're getting the train home!! ;)

I, for one, will be very glad when I can put JC away and never get take it out again so bring on the areas .... Really looking forward to hearing some of the bands in our section play (especially local bands and the one I. It's interesting - you hear your own bands 'interpretation' of a piece for weeks on end, and its great to hear what other bands/conductors make of the same piece of music.

Outside of our section - a huge GOOD LUCK to Tilbury, and I hope they build on the great result from 2007.

Flugelgeoff
06.03.2008, 22:23
Hi, I am thinking about driving up to the midlands from Norwich area on Saturday. I am particularly going to listen to 2nd Section. does anyone fancy car sharing and of course fuel cost sharing? I would need to be leaving Norwich by 7.00am. could always meet somewhere like Thickthorn Services. If you were wanting to go to other section could no doubt sort out. let me know by pm

Geoff Barber

MajorMorgan
07.03.2008, 11:55
Spot on Steve. However as much as I would like our band to compete further afield the cost element stops us from doing it.

We have travelled to Leicester in the past but a coach for the day costs us in excess of 400 !!!

We have a choice either progress more slowly or bankrupt the band. And as we all know money does not always buy success!

It doesn't get any easier at the top level Chunky, but we still do it. We are entirely unsponsored, completely self funding (we all pay subs) and often have to put hands in pockets even more to fund our trips to the national contests - just this year we have contests in Cambridge, Blackpool and Preston. We do it because we our area isn't exactly well represented at this level - and we do it at great personal expense to ourselves. It would be great if more bands in the lower sections could help us make an impact for this area at a national level. The other issue, of course, is the astronomical cost of music at this level. Music purchase costs for those 3 contests? 240!

Chunky
07.03.2008, 12:03
It doesn't get any easier at the top level Chunky, but we still do it. We are entirely unsponsored, completely self funding (we all pay subs) and often have to put hands in pockets even more to fund our trips to the national contests - just this year we have contests in Cambridge, Blackpool and Preston. We do it because we our area isn't exactly well represented at this level - and we do it at great personal expense to ourselves. It would be great if more bands in the lower sections could help us make an impact for this area at a national level. The other issue, of course, is the astronomical cost of music at this level. Music purchase costs for those 3 contests? 240!

Never assumed it did Tim. In fact it probably gets harder! My point was that to progress as a band you need to be challenged more by contesting against other stronger bands, but the cost does inhibit that.

Of course once you reach the top section you still have room to improve hence the costs you too have to pay.

LeDragon
07.03.2008, 13:38
All the best to Staines Brass for next weekend!

Jasonp
08.03.2008, 10:00
All the best to Staines Brass for next weekend!

Awwww thanks Gaz, I won't give you those extra duties now.....;)

brassbandmaestro
08.03.2008, 17:25
I be interested to here what 4th Section bands are faring at the moment with the test piece. The last time i competed at the Areas was I think in the 2nd Section. I always have an interest in the 4th Section as thats where I started.

DeafeningRoar
08.03.2008, 20:16
.

The only way L&SC will lose the tag of the weakest area is for more of the bands to compete against bands from other areas.

Its a common misconception that L&SC is the weakest area....Scotland and the North are surely weaker across all the 5 sections!

Accidental
08.03.2008, 22:00
misconception? I don't think so..... and neither do the historical records for contests like the Open, National, Pontins etc, or the various sets of rankings out there.

On the subject of rankings though - I do get very hacked off about constantly being penalised by 4br's loaded points system!

WhatSharp?
08.03.2008, 22:20
I think our lower sections compete on a more even keel simply by the fact that our area is spread out over a much wider area ( also try to get across London ) so players tend to go to the nearest band rather than travel ( though there are a lot less bands ). Whilst Yorshire is a fairly small area with a lot of bands, hence the good players tend to end up in the top few bands, and why the top sections bands are better, they have a much bigger pool of talent to draw from. just a theory.

Accidental
08.03.2008, 22:29
that's a good theory Steve, and it makes a lot of sense.
Most of the bands I've been involved in 'down south' draw the majority of their membership from a very small area so their standards and successes are very dependant on the available players at a given time. A huge amount of players have a straight choice between staying in the nearest half-decent band regardless of its grading, or clocking up insane mileage to get to a 'top' band.

(and before someone jumps on it, I know there's some peeps in the top name bands that travel miles too, lol!)

brassbandmaestro
09.03.2008, 09:59
I think that the fact that there are maybe fewer brass players to draw from the pool is the reason. I know there are exceptions to the rule, but as soon as someone reaches the time to go to uni, they always leave a gap thats quite hard top fill.

MoominDave
09.03.2008, 10:26
On the subject of rankings though - I do get very hacked off about constantly being penalised by 4br's loaded points system!

It is a bit of a farce, isn't it? "These rankings have been meticulously prepared and provide an accurate reflection of the merits of each band mentioned." Yeah, right. We've come 3rd and 4th the last two years at the areas in the L&SC Championship section, and are currently sitting a mighty 176th. Friary are in the 1st section, and are much higher than that - 148th.

The true absurdity though is found when we look at lower section bands from the stronger regions - Flixton (3rd section in the NW area) are ranked well above both of our bands, at 130! They are not alone, either - both Oldham (Lees) and Middleton from several sections below come above Kidlington in their rankings, along with numerous other 1st section bands.

There are two effects at play here that reduce the rankings to an absurdity when you look beyond the top 50 or so -
1) In areas where there are lots of highly ranked bands, points tend to percolate down through the sections. The top section contests are worth more points, so then those bands that are in the bottom half of the top section carry points in to contests where they are competing against lower section bands. There are very few points washing about in L&SC, and while contest organisers continue to make it so hard for us to compete against bands from areas who do have more points (*), and while we have to travel large distances to get to contests where points are on offer, this situation is not going to change.

(*) I'm looking squarely at the organisers of the Spring Festival here - we were invited in (I think) 2003 on short notice, came 7th in the Trophy, returned the next year, came 16/20, were rotated out as one of the bottom 6, and have been utterly unable to get an invite since. In contrast, Longridge, who are local to Blackpool, came below us at that contest, and have been back several times since then. I do wonder if contest organisers pay undue attention to the 4BR rankings, making the whole selection process circular?
They had better not unexpectedly invite us this year though - various of our players have arranged to play in other concerts on that date now. (*)

2) Bands that don't have a mania for contesting are penalised relative to those that do. Last time I looked at the rankings, we were something like 130th. Through contesting inaction of a few months, we have slipped nearly 50 places. I agree that recent results should count for more than past results, but this is ridiculous.

Accidental
09.03.2008, 17:07
It is a bit of a farce, isn't it? "These rankings have been meticulously prepared and provide an accurate reflection of the merits of each band mentioned." Yeah, right. We've come 3rd and 4th the last two years at the areas in the L&SC Championship section, and are currently sitting a mighty 176th. Friary are in the 1st section, and are much higher than that - 148th.
And you could actually argue that based on the bands we've beaten over the last 2 years at Yeovil, Pontins and Blackpool that maybe we should be ranked higher than that!

The area contests are the crux - we're 'the weakest' area so placings from Stevenage are worth fewer points. We therefore earn much lower points than everyone else, resulting in lower rankings, neatly proving the original assumption that we are indeed the weakest area...... :frown:

I get the feeling the snotty comment about meticulous & accurate is a response to the (growing?) number of people questioning the way the rankings are done. One of our guys questioned 4br a few months ago and was essentially told that its nothing to do with them, its all done by a non-bander 3rd party! :eek: Given that so many bands judge themselves and others by the rankings, and the Open organisers do indeed pay attention to them, that's just plain wrong imo.

(I can see a split-off thread coming up.....)

Yoofman
09.03.2008, 19:30
I agree the 1st section is the one to watch this year, but the top section could throw up some surprises too. Several bands in both sections have changed a lot since the last area (some beyond all recognition!) so I think there's potential for some quite unexpected results.

Interesting comments about the relegated bands Duncan - what do you mean by 'moving mountains'? I've had a good play with the grading tables and reckon even if we or Soham won we'd be unlikely to go straight back up because of the points from 05 & 06. We're just going to turn up with our regular players and do the best we can! And (I'm being really picky, sorry!) aren't Ipswich & Northfleet more recently relegated than Regent?

I don't know if this is significant - but having read through the thread and the remarks about 1st section, it seems everyone has forgotten my band, and our newly installed MD, Ian McElligott! (Sob ...)

The 1st section does look like it might throw up some surprises - and points wise irt's very tight. If you only take the scores for 06 and 07, Sandhurst lie second in the table - not something I thought I'd ever say. However that can - and probably will - change completely after next Saturday!

Looking forward to Stevenage, even it's just so that I am rip up JCC afterwards ... I'm sick of feeling seasick!!! :oops: ;)

Good luck one and all next weekend ...

brassbandmaestro
09.03.2008, 21:22
Unfortunately I wont be able to attend the Regionals, things were coming thick and fast on Saturday, so I am going to have a day of rest on the Sunday. hope aLL goes well for everybody.

sophunk
11.03.2008, 10:10
I don't know if this is significant - but having read through the thread and the remarks about 1st section, it seems everyone has forgotten my band, and our newly installed MD, Ian McElligott! (Sob ...)

The 1st section does look like it might throw up some surprises - and points wise irt's very tight. If you only take the scores for 06 and 07, Sandhurst lie second in the table - not something I thought I'd ever say. However that can - and probably will - change completely after next Saturday!

Looking forward to Stevenage, even it's just so that I am rip up JCC afterwards ... I'm sick of feeling seasick!!! :oops: ;)

Good luck one and all next weekend ...


I would like to wish Sandhurst all the best at the weekend. Don't rule them out, having recently played with them they have a great all round team and a strong leader in Ian who definitely will get the best performance out of the band....looking to see you guys finishing at the top if not close to

All the best


Iain (ex sop player):)

Chunky
11.03.2008, 10:19
Thought I would post this now to save time after the weekend. Please feel free to copy / paste and use as a template!

Having listened to (x) bands on (Saturday / Sunday) I cannot believe what (insert adjudicators name or perhaps a comical nickname) was listening for.

We know we from (insert your band name here) were the best because some old tramp with a dog was listening to all the bands from outside the hall and he told us so.

The bands that have qualified (insert names here) only qualified because the adjuducator once drove past their bandroom whilst they were rehearsing and no doubt they had imported players from (insert county / country)

This is of course is not sour grapes but as our band worked so much harder and deserved a place much more than the winners I felt I needed to share this with you.

I would like to wish all the qualifiers evey success at (London / Harrogate) (yeah right, coz I'm not bitter that you are going and I'm not.)

I must also protest at the sandwiches on sale. Why oh why when there is a band contest on do they insist on making poncey salmon and rocket sandwiches. We want sausage and bacon butties. And also decent beer

Until the area committeee sort this catering out I am not certain I want to compete at the area contest. After all its the beer and sarnies being the reason we go.

Chunky
11.03.2008, 10:30
I would like to wish Sandhurst all the best at the weekend. Don't rule them out, having recently played with them they have a great all round team and a strong leader in Ian who definitely will get the best performance out of the band....looking to see you guys finishing at the top if not close to

All the best


Iain (ex sop player):)

Forgotten us already Iain ;)

Accidental
11.03.2008, 10:41
Chunky..... lmao :clap: :clap:

After a brief omg-its-in-5-days panic last night, I'm really looking forward to Saturday. The contest should be interesting to say the least, its always good craic meeting up with folks, and we can (usually) rely on the LSC peeps to be gracious in victory AND defeat. Bring it on! :)

sophunk
11.03.2008, 10:55
Forgotten us already Iain ;)


Not at all ........you are always in my thoughts Mr Clarke. Having listened from outside last night I guess you will put up the best performance that you can, but its a tough test for all. I am back in Norwich on leave this week and looking forward to cheering you on at weekend.

xxxx your ever loving sop player:)

brassbandmaestro
11.03.2008, 12:25
Good luck people for Sunday. Pity I wont be there1

WhatSharp?
11.03.2008, 12:29
My first 1st Section contest since lord alone knows when ( Basildon was the last one with Purcell ) , I was looking forward to it ( still am ) but sadly one of our dogs went missing yesterday morning ( fence blew down ) and we've been unable to find her since. Rather put a dampener on things.... :(

WhatSharp?
11.03.2008, 14:14
My first 1st Section contest since lord alone knows when ( Basildon was the last one with Purcell ) , I was looking forward to it ( still am ) but sadly one of our dogs went missing yesterday morning ( fence blew down ) and we've been unable to find her since. Rather put a dampener on things.... :(

Yay! found her!.... now just the areas to worry about! :-?

The Wherryman
11.03.2008, 14:28
My first 1st Section contest since lord alone knows when ( Basildon was the last one with Purcell ) , I was looking forward to it ( still am ) but sadly one of our dogs went missing yesterday morning ( fence blew down ) and we've been unable to find her since. Rather put a dampener on things.... :(


Yay! found her!.... now just the areas to worry about! :-?

I'm really pleased you found her...but she's robbed you of a pretty unique excuse - "sorry about the missed notes, fellas, but I was worried about my dog". :D

But I AM pleased you found her. :clap:

Good luck to everyone, including Cawston (before Chunky gets on my case :biggrin: )

Red Elvis
11.03.2008, 16:53
Well its all getting a bit heated on some of the other regional threads ! Hopefully we'll survive our weekend without all falling out !!
In the interests of promoting lurrve , peace and harmony in L&SC I promise to write nice things on this site about any band whose members buy me pints (after we've played ) regardless of final placings !!

Big Phil
I&N Co-Op

Ipswich trom
11.03.2008, 17:18
Well its all getting a bit heated on some of the other regional threads ! Hopefully we'll survive our weekend without all falling out !!
In the interests of promoting lurrve , peace and harmony in L&SC I promise to write nice things on this site about any band whose members buy me pints (after we've played ) regardless of final placings !!

Big Phil
I&N Co-Op

Things are a little heated out west aren't they. It's a lottery, everyone knows that so no point in getting wound up. If you can't take a joke, don't contest.

hicks
11.03.2008, 17:25
Things are a little heated out west aren't they. It's a lottery, everyone knows that so no point in getting wound up. If you can't take a joke, don't contest.

I dare you to post that comment in the WOE thread :)

Ipswich trom
11.03.2008, 17:30
I dare you to post that comment in the WOE thread :)


I can't, our conductor played for Polysteel on Sunday lol.

Accidental
11.03.2008, 17:43
we can (usually) rely on the LSC peeps to be gracious in victory AND defeat. Bring it on! :)

Hopefully we'll survive our weekend without all falling out !!
In the interests of promoting lurrve , peace and harmony in L&SC I promise to write nice things on this site about any band whose members buy me pints (after we've played ) regardless of final placings !!

Things are a little heated out west aren't they. It's a lottery, everyone knows that so no point in getting wound up. If you can't take a joke, don't contest.
Just thought I'd put it all in one place in case we need reminding on Sunday! :wink:

Ipswich trom
11.03.2008, 17:47
Just thought I'd put it all in one place in case we need reminding on Sunday! :wink:


Thanks Alex, I reserve the right to withdraw any statement that I have made in the unlikely event that we either:
a, play rubbish and win
b, someone tells us we should have walked it but didn't

Accidental
11.03.2008, 17:55
lol!

and don't forget our wonderful catch-all excuse for this year only: we tailored our interpretation for Bob Childs and then they changed adjudicators on us :)

Andrea
11.03.2008, 19:24
You drink 10 pints again Mr, you're getting the train home!! ;)

I, for one, will be very glad when I can put JC away and never get take it out again so bring on the areas .... Really looking forward to hearing some of the bands in our section play (especially local bands and the one I. It's interesting - you hear your own bands 'interpretation' of a piece for weeks on end, and its great to hear what other bands/conductors make of the same piece of music.

Outside of our section - a huge GOOD LUCK to Tilbury, and I hope they build on the great result from 2007.

Thanks Kim we will certainly try our best on Sunday. Good luck to you on Saturday too.

Andrea
Secretary Tilbury Brass Band

Tim Pritchard
11.03.2008, 19:33
Good luck to all the bands in the First Section. I hope the storms die down enough for us to fly over, we feel we have to make amends for a poor performance on stage last year. Looks like being a tight contest, we feel we are making a pretty good noise but with so few chances to sit on a contest stage we are our own worst enemies. Splitting a note to death means so much more when it has just you six grand to get to the contest! No pressure guys just don't mess it up.
PS who puts on a contest when we are about to win a grand slam!!!!!!!!!!!
(exile welshman)

the fish
11.03.2008, 21:43
Previews now available courtesy of 4barsrest.

http://www.4barsrest.com/articles/2008/art818d.asp

http://www.4barsrest.com/articles/2008/art818c.asp

http://www.4barsrest.com/articles/2008/art818b.asp

http://www.4barsrest.com/articles/2008/art818a.asp

http://www.4barsrest.com/articles/2008/art818.asp

andyh
12.03.2008, 00:11
We want sausage and bacon butties. And also decent beer
<snip>
Until the area committeee sort this catering out I am not certain I want to compete at the area contest. After all its the beer and sarnies being the reason we go.

This is of course the most important part of the weekend! They always used to do really nice bacon butties at Stevenage, but for the last two years they've not, sadly.

We want our butties back!

Andy

andywooler
12.03.2008, 00:13
Hopefully the 4BR predictions are as accurate as their ability for the 3rd year running to misspell LGB Brass - Lewes Glynde & Beddingham is what it stands for, not LBG!! Just how much do those guys actually know about this part of the world? ;)

Alec Gallagher
12.03.2008, 08:33
My local newspaper up here in Bedfordshire carries an advert for the Gordon Craig theatre in Stevenage. On Friday 14th March Chubby Brown is on. On Monday 17th March there is a charity concert of old songs from the 60's onwards. You can book for both shows by phone or via the website.

The advert (and website) make no mention of any events taking place on the 16th and 17th March. Rather reinforces the insular image of banding, don't you think?

andywooler
12.03.2008, 08:40
I suspect that as with many venues, they advertise only what they have booked rather than events which have simply hired their premises.

The Wherryman
12.03.2008, 09:46
Hopefully the 4BR predictions are as accurate as their ability for the 3rd year running to misspell LGB Brass - Lewes Glynde & Beddingham is what it stands for, not LBG!! Just how much do those guys actually know about this part of the world? ;)

Hey, don't knock them - they've been coming to our rehearsals for the last month, so they must know what they're talking about.

Oops, sorry, I thought this was the Bad Joke thread :oops:

Chunky
12.03.2008, 10:27
Hey, don't knock them - they've been coming to our rehearsals for the last month, so they must know what they're talking about.

Oops, sorry, I thought this was the Bad Joke thread :oops:

What as well as the adjudicator Geoff, ;)

Chunky
12.03.2008, 10:36
Good luck to everyone, including Cawston (before Chunky gets on my case :biggrin: )

Sorry Geoff missed this! Thanks for that and good luck for Sunday!

The Wherryman
12.03.2008, 10:40
What as well as the adjudicator Geoff, ;)

Shhhhhh...that's supposed to be a secret. PLEEEEEZE don't tell anyone else.:eek:

Chunky
12.03.2008, 10:50
Shhhhhh...that's supposed to be a secret. PLEEEEEZE don't tell anyone else.:eek:

Our secret is safe! Nobody read's the L & SC thread. Remember there are no bands South East of Leicester!

Accidental
12.03.2008, 10:51
that's one hell of a mass delusion we've got going then! :eek:

Chunky
12.03.2008, 10:59
that's one hell of a mass delusion we've got going then! :eek:

Could be a new slogan: The London & Southern Counties- Bandings best kept secret!

Will you be partaking of an ale in the bar Alex? The East Anglian contingent should be quite strong. In fact with Cawston, Matthews, Ipswich & Norwich C-Op, Cambridge and Soham all in the 1st section it could almost be an un-official EABBA Championship!

The Wherryman
12.03.2008, 11:03
Our secret is safe! Nobody read's the L & SC thread. Remember there are no bands South East of Leicester!

Yeah, well there are some who think that Norfolk only exists at low tide.

Good luck to EVERYONE for the weekend - and let's keep it friendly :D;):p

The Wherryman
12.03.2008, 11:06
The East Anglian contingent should be quite strong. In fact with Cawston, Matthews, Ipswich & Norwich C-Op, Cambridge and Soham all in the 1st section it could almost be an un-official EABBA Championship!

Only "almost", Chunky, only "almost". ;)

andywooler
12.03.2008, 11:20
What as well as the adjudicator Geoff, ;)So that's where our other percussionist went.

Owen S
12.03.2008, 11:32
This is of course the most important part of the weekend! They always used to do really nice bacon butties at Stevenage, but for the last two years they've not, sadly.

We want our butties back!

AndyYou can still get decent bacon butties at Stevenage. The caff in the bus station is pretty good, and there's also usually a van set up by the market stalls on the way to the bus station that looks OK even if I haven't actually tried it.

Accidental
12.03.2008, 11:41
Will you be partaking of an ale in the bar Alex? Hell yes! I always aim to have a pint in my hand within 10 minutes of playing the last note! :)

I like the slogan btw.....

Owen S
12.03.2008, 11:43
My local newspaper up here in Bedfordshire carries an advert for the Gordon Craig theatre in Stevenage. On Friday 14th March Chubby Brown is on. On Monday 17th March there is a charity concert of old songs from the 60's onwards. You can book for both shows by phone or via the website.

The advert (and website) make no mention of any events taking place on the 16th and 17th March. Rather reinforces the insular image of banding, don't you think?We actually discussed this on here a year or two ago.

Several years ago, the centre did advertise the contest, and they received several complaints from members of the public who essentially expected to hear a concert and were disappointed to hear only one piece over and over again. Since then, the event has been listed in the events list on their website, but with a warning for members of the public, up until this year when it doesn't appear at all.

People who are interested enough in banding to want to listen to the same piece over and over again are almost entirely people who have friends in bands, I'm afraid.

Personally, I think the movement needs more entertainments contests and bands need to support the ones they have more. I also think we should try to hold them in ways that the general public would actually want to come to, as opposed to suburban schools starting early on a Sunday morning, but that's a whole other discussion.

Chunky
12.03.2008, 11:46
Hell yes! I always aim to have a pint in my hand within 10 minutes of playing the last note! :)

I like the slogan btw.....

See you in there! I will be there before you as we are drawn before you. But only you, me and the Adjudicator know that!

vonny
12.03.2008, 12:08
All the best to Ispwich & Norwich Co-op! Ian (Ipswich trom) if I see you at Harrogate i'll let you buy me a beverage ;)

brassbandmaestro
12.03.2008, 12:09
Well SCABA does an entertainment contest once a year, perhaps they should have two, like the Spring and autumn Contests.

Accidental
12.03.2008, 12:18
See you in there! I will be there before you as we are drawn before you. But only you, me and the Adjudicator know that!
Ahhh, you obviously don't know about my unfortunate talent for pulling no. 1 out of the bag.

Nice idea about 2 ents contests, but to be frank when SCABA's own bands can't muster up enough support for the existing 3 contests to fill the sections, I'm not sure adding another one will help! Anyhoo, that's a topic for another day, or another thread ;)

Owen S
12.03.2008, 12:23
Well SCABA does an entertainment contest once a year, perhaps they should have two, like the Spring and autumn Contests.Well, I'm pretty sure Crawley would need to become more popular for SCABA to start running two entertainments contests. Then again, Hove and Folkestone are both own choice contests, so they aren't quite as monotonous for the casual listener.

Chunky
12.03.2008, 12:36
Ahhh, you obviously don't know about my unfortunate talent for pulling no. 1 out of the bag.

Nice idea about 2 ents contests, but to be frank when SCABA's own bands can't muster up enough support for the existing 3 contests to fill the sections, I'm not sure adding another one will help! Anyhoo, that's a topic for another day, or another thread ;)

Already factored for Alex ;)

Can you PM (so as not to divert off topic!)me details of how to get SCABA membership of are your contests open?

Ta

andywooler
12.03.2008, 12:52
I am very disppointed - we seem to be the only region which doesn't have a troll in our Regional thread.

Owen S
12.03.2008, 12:54
I am very disppointed - we seem to be the only region which doesn't have a troll in our Regional thread.As opposed to most previous years, when some stirring person meant we were usually the only one that had one?

The Wherryman
12.03.2008, 12:59
I am very disppointed - we seem to be the only region which doesn't have a troll in our Regional thread.

All the available trolls appear to be registered with other Areas at the moment. Is it against the rules to troll for more than one Area at a time?

Chunky
12.03.2008, 13:00
At least ours was a Star Performing Troll!

Owen S
12.03.2008, 13:09
All the available trolls appear to be registered with other Areas at the moment. Is it against the rules to troll for more than one Area at a time?Maybe we should bring in someone from Norway or the Netherlands?

Will the Sec
12.03.2008, 13:41
Our old troll, a Specific Person, was indeed from foreign climes.

Yorkshire, I believe.

andywooler
12.03.2008, 13:57
All the available trolls appear to be registered with other Areas at the moment. Is it against the rules to troll for more than one Area at a time?Only if you troll in a section lower than your normal grading.

Will the Sec
12.03.2008, 17:27
Lol!

Bryan_sop
12.03.2008, 18:27
Hopefully the 4BR predictions are as accurate as their ability for the 3rd year running to misspell LGB Brass - Lewes Glynde & Beddingham is what it stands for, not LBG!! Just how much do those guys actually know about this part of the world? ;)

And hopefully not as accurate as their draw timings....here (http://www.regional-contest.org.uk/london/index.php?page=contest_details) on the official L&SC page the draw is 2pm but here (http://www.4barsrest.com/articles/2008/art818c.asp) on 4br it's 1.30pm....

andywooler
12.03.2008, 20:05
Note for 4br: Don'r (DN@T)t expect the Watneys Band to turn up this weekend.

KMJ Recordings
12.03.2008, 20:16
The trolling will only start when you've all not won ;)

Have a good contest, everybody.

The Wherryman
12.03.2008, 23:51
The trolling will only start when you've all not won ;)

Have a good contest, everybody.

Perhaps we could have this made into a smilie just for L&SC use - "Don't Feed the Troll"

PeterBale
13.03.2008, 00:22
Lol!

Too bad those "dahn sarf" can't even spell "Troll" properly ;)

Seriously, best of luck to all playing on Saturday, especially me old muckers at Becontree - shan't be there this year as I'm at Hendon Highlights at the Cadogan Hall.

I shall be around all day on the Sunday, however, and look forward to seeing plenty of tMPers in action, as well as meeting up socially.

davem1995
13.03.2008, 01:43
I'd just like to point out that 4BR have another error. The conductor of Hitchin Band is Martin Hurrell.

They are only a year out of date with their info - might have been useful if they looked at the band web site to check first ;)

Nice to see TMP got it right! :clap:

Accidental
13.03.2008, 09:03
having exhausted the errata for Circumcisor, maybe we should start one for 4br...............

brassbandmaestro
13.03.2008, 09:54
Sounds to me that 4br needs to get it's act together a bit more then.

GJG
13.03.2008, 10:42
having exhausted the errata for Circumcisor, ...

Not quite; we were still finding new ones last night, and we've got another rehearsal to go ...

PeterBale
13.03.2008, 20:00
Sounds to me that 4br needs to get it's act together a bit more then.

To be fair, I believe they did ask several weeks ago for bands to contact them with up-to-date details. It must be a mammoth task trying to collate everything, and I'm just glad it isn't down to me:eek:

Nigel Hall
13.03.2008, 20:28
To be fair, I believe they did ask several weeks ago for bands to contact them with up-to-date details. It must be a mammoth task trying to collate everything, and I'm just glad it isn't down to me:eek:

However, you would have thought they could get the adjudicator of the 4th section correct! They list it as Steve Pritchard-Jones (who judged the 4th section last year) which may be a bit difficult as he is adjudicating the 2nd section in the theatre at the same time - nice trick if you can pull it off :biggrin:

andywooler
13.03.2008, 20:37
To be fair, I believe they did ask several weeks ago for bands to contact them with up-to-date details. It must be a mammoth task trying to collate everything, and I'm just glad it isn't down to me:eek:No excuse!! I told them about the LBG error last year and the draw times are a matter of public record on the L&SC website. It really doesn't take much that much effort to get this sort of detail right.

brassbandmaestro
13.03.2008, 21:09
4br doesnt have any excuses. I quite agree Andy, 4br should take note of what other people give them. If they cant manage anything so simple as that, well......?????

davem1995
13.03.2008, 23:28
They have less of an excuse when they got our MD correct at Butlins - and then went back in time!

As someone said to me tonight, the LS&C Regional Web site (http://www.regional-contest.org.uk/london/index.php?page=bands_entered) has all the correct information so is easily accessible.

Still, in 48 hours it will all be over!

Bet the accurate results get published here first!

dyl
13.03.2008, 23:35
To be fair, I believe they did ask several weeks ago for bands to contact them with up-to-date details. It must be a mammoth task trying to collate everything, and I'm just glad it isn't down to me:eek:

To be fair to everyone else though Peter (those who aren't affilaited with 4br) - I don't recall them ever asking for band details in relation to the area contests - finals yes - but not the areas.

Getting adjudicator details wrong, particularly when the info is readily available elsewhere, and knowing full well that people always look forward to their coverage (though for how long if this kind of thing happens?), is pretty shabby to tell the truth.

andywooler
13.03.2008, 23:46
Still, in 48 hours it will all be over!
Then the fun can really begin ;)

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f399/myfask/258Troll_spray.jpg

brassbandmaestro
14.03.2008, 00:24
Nice one AndyWooler!!

Accidental
14.03.2008, 09:36
To be fair to everyone else though Peter (those who aren't affilaited with 4br) - I don't recall them ever asking for band details in relation to the area contests - finals yes - but not the areas.

Getting adjudicator details wrong, particularly when the info is readily available elsewhere, and knowing full well that people always look forward to their coverage (though for how long if this kind of thing happens?), is pretty shabby to tell the truth.
It doesn't just stop there either!
There's the aforementioned LBG (every year?!!), then little odditites like Cambridge appearing in the 1st section for 'the first time since' the 90s, even though they've actually been there since 2001 and qualified last year. Or one championship band making a 'good account' of themselves with 2 8th places while another band was apparently less than comfortable with a 7th & 9th in the same contests. And how come the Leicester contest (out of the region, attended by only a few LSC bands) counts for something, but the SCABA results (where more local bands have competed against each other) don't get a look in.

I know its only supposed to be a bit of fun, but there's a fairly strong argument to get it right, or not bother! It really does give the impression that they don't think LSC is worth the effort..... I'd be interested to know if they're this sloppy about other regions?

sophunk
14.03.2008, 09:45
I know its only supposed to be a bit of fun, but there's a fairly strong argument to get it right, or not bother! It really does give the impression that they don't think LSC is worth the effort..... I'd be interested to know if they're this sloppy about other regions?

I always find it interesting have competed for many years in this area that there never is any prizes for best intrumentalists etc like at other areas. We all work hard and as aplayer who sits on a solo seat despite recognition in remarks or from colleagues this is never replicated in any specific prizes.

I would like this area to be seenas just as important and recognised as other areas

Iain

MoominDave
14.03.2008, 09:56
There are in the top section - aren't there in the lower sections?

sophunk
14.03.2008, 10:05
There are in the top section - aren't there in the lower sections?

Neevr know any mate

MoominDave
14.03.2008, 10:08
Are there in the lower sections in other areas? I don't remember there being any instrumentalist prizes when I used to play for University of Warwick in the Midlands 3rd and 4th sections. But then that was a long time ago.

Accidental
14.03.2008, 10:13
Only in 1st section, and I think that's specifically for cornet.

I don't think the presence or otherwise of soloist prizes is relevant to the LSC vs. everywhere else (!) debate anyway though - special prizes are down to the individual contests, not a nationally governed thing, and as with association contests most of them are donated by bands or families as tributes (that's why you get specifics like cornet, horn, euph rather than just soloist or instrumentalist).

Owen S
14.03.2008, 10:41
It doesn't just stop there either!
There's the aforementioned LBG (every year?!!), then little odditites like Cambridge appearing in the 1st section for 'the first time since' the 90s, even though they've actually been there since 2001 and qualified last year. Or one championship band making a 'good account' of themselves with 2 8th places while another band was apparently less than comfortable with a 7th & 9th in the same contests. And how come the Leicester contest (out of the region, attended by only a few LSC bands) counts for something, but the SCABA results (where more local bands have competed against each other) don't get a look in.Indeed, also Jersey are described as coming 8th at Butlins, when they mean Pontins. Ignoring the SCABA contests makes a difference to working out what to expect from some bands, for example Horsham, who won the Folkestone first section, but haven't competed north of London since last year's areas. The prediction articles are littered with inaccuracies, and they've obviously been put together in a rush.

However, while I think southern bands do have legitimate grievances with how we're represented in parts of the band press, we do have to be careful. I just looked through the northwest and Scottish first section predictions for comparison, and while I didn't spot any mistakes, I'm not sure I would notice them anyway, and the articles have just the same lack of depth as ours.

Then again, it's all free, so "If you don't like it, write it yourself!" is probably valid criticism.

Accidental
14.03.2008, 10:49
Then again, it's all free, so "If you don't like it, write it yourself!" is probably valid criticism.
I agree up to a point, but the concern is that this lack of care and knowledge about our region feeds into things like the rankings - as Dave & I have mentioned before they are hopelessly out of whack, and yet they influence the inclusion of bands in events like the Spring Festival. With inclusion in events like that at stake, I really do think it behooves 4br to put a bit more effort into getting it right.

just my opinion though...... nobody else's!

Chunky
14.03.2008, 10:56
To be fair Alex I think Owen is refering to the previews rather than the gradings!

GJG
14.03.2008, 10:58
Ignoring the SCABA contests makes a difference to working out what to expect from some bands, for example Horsham, who won the Folkestone first section, ...

However, there is also an argument that says because of SCABA's peculiar (unique?) system of independent gradings (ie, the SCABA 1st section for example is a mix of nationally graded 1st & 2nd section bands) these results aren't really representative of standard of playing in relation to national grading standards. Not intending in any way to be disrespectful to prizewinners, but it might be considered misleading when assessing a bands chances at the qualifiers to take account of a 1st section win at a SCABA contest when other nationally graded 1st section bands are actually competing in the Champ section in SCABA.

Owen S
14.03.2008, 11:02
I agree up to a point, but the concern is that this lack of care and knowledge about our region feeds into things like the rankings - as Dave & I have mentioned before they are hopelessly out of whack, and yet they influence the inclusion of bands in events like the Spring Festival. With inclusion in events like that at stake, I really do think it behooves 4br to put a bit more effort into getting it right.That'll be those "legitimate grievances" I was talking about. ;)

SCABA's use of a local grading system does make it harder to integrate their results into a national ranking system, but it isn't impossible all the same.

Accidental
14.03.2008, 11:04
To be fair Alex I think Owen is refering to the previews rather than the gradings!

the concern is that this lack of care and knowledge about our region feeds into things like the rankings
I really do believe that the lack of care evidenced by sloppy previews is symptomatic of a general attitude towards our 'weakest' region that informs the weighting given to different contests which in turn affects the rankings....

Bungle
14.03.2008, 11:05
[QUOTE=Owen S;588262]The prediction articles are littered with inaccuracies, and they've obviously been put together in a rush.
QUOTE]

Is this such a bad thing? I thought comming in the 4br top placing predictions was the kiss of death. I'm glad we are not one of them.

Owen S
14.03.2008, 11:07
However, there is also an argument that says because of SCABA's peculiar (unique?) system of independent gradings (ie, the SCABA 1st section for example is a mix of nationally graded 1st & 2nd section bands) these results aren't really representative of standard of playing in relation to national grading standards. Not intending in any way to be disrespectful to prizewinners, but it might be considered misleading when assessing a bands chances at the qualifiers to take account of a 1st section win at a SCABA contest when other nationally graded 1st section bands are actually competing in the Champ section in SCABA.Nice cross-post Gareth. ;)

While not having a fourth section might be unique, having separate local gradings is what makes the difference here, and that certainly isn't unique. East Anglia, Durham and Wales all have them, I think, and I imagine there are a few others.

Owen S
14.03.2008, 11:10
The prediction articles are littered with inaccuracies, and they've obviously been put together in a rush.
Is this such a bad thing? I thought comming in the 4br top placing predictions was the kiss of death. I'm glad we are not one of them.It didn't do us any harm last year. :D

dyl
14.03.2008, 11:24
Then again, it's all free, so "If you don't like it, write it yourself!" is probably valid criticism.

But when taken in context with the following editorial from 4br in December 2004:

http://4barsrest.com/editorial/ed016.asp


The decision will mean that we will be able devote more time and energy into further enhancing our provision of articles, features, reviews, comments, shop and most importantly the provision of up to date news

Obviously only applies to some areas then...................

MoominDave
14.03.2008, 11:26
Alex -

I think the problem is more self-perpetuating than deliberately malicious.

That is, the weighting for each contest is calculated from the rankings of the bands that play. So, built into the system is an amount of inertia in terms of points moving about. When bands who have less points than seems reasonable are in a situation where they only very rarely compete with bands who have more points than seems reasonable, this amount of inertia is huge.

The problem for all of us ultimately comes from there having been historically very few country-beating bands in L&SC. When 4BR set up their system, they fed in years of historical data to get their initial conditions, based on the biggest contests - I think the only arbitrary points allocations they made were based on the Open vs the National Finals, not a decision that will have affected too many L&SC bands. These percolated down - pretty much everywhere except L&SC who have only sporadically had a representative grabbing serious points at the big contests.

And so bands in pretty much every other UK region have easier access to points than we do. And because they do now, they continue to do so in the future. It's a pretty basic error in parameter setting on their part.

What they need to do to see just how variable the system is is to rerun several versions of their rankings database from the historical start, with a little variation of parameters; particularly the one that dictates how historically persistent points are, and the one(s) that dictate(s) how points are distributed down the order of placings.
Turning the first up would help to reduce the phenomenon of bands plummeting down the rankings when they don't contest for a few months, and being more generous with the second would allow for a quicker distribution of points across areas.

This might smooth things out a little - but the basic problem would remain: they are trying to deduce huge numbers of measurements from a very poor sample (3 or 4 contests a year per band is nowhere near high enough when the error margin on results is so big). The first rankings I saw (BBW) only dealt with the top 10 or 20, but have since expanded to 200 under the pressure of statistics-ignorant bandspeople who just want to see their band mentioned. If they perform the analysis I suggest above, they will see that the rankings of bands beyond the top 20 or so will have an absolutely massive error on them - I predict well in excess of 100% [although obviously the error distribution will be skewed towards the low end of the rankings].

Accidental
14.03.2008, 11:45
Absolutely Dave - I find my self (as ever!) agreeing with pretty much everything you've said. I never meant to suggest any malice, and I sincerely hope noone thinks I'm indulging in 4br-bashing. I think, on the whole, they provide a very valuable service to banders and long may it continue..... but I am increasingly frustrated by the lack of care which allows the self-fulfilling prophecy of rankings to stack the deck against us, and the predictions/previews to come out peppered with errors and inaccuracies.

Anyhoo, this isn't a 4br thread, so sorry to anyone who thinks we're hijacking it. I'm really looking forward to tomorrow, and at the end of the day it doesn't matter who predicted which band to come where! I'm just hoping we can play well, enjoy the day, and take a half decent result into the gradings for next year :)

MoominDave
14.03.2008, 11:48
I couldn't quite decide whether or not you thought that they were manually allocating an overlow point allocation to L&SC, when they do it automatically...

andywooler
14.03.2008, 11:49
SCABA's use of a local grading system does make it harder to integrate their results into a national ranking system, but it isn't impossible all the same.It must be remembered that it was the nationals that added a section rather than SCABA deciding to be different - there just aren't enough bands to justify adding a section.

Owen S
14.03.2008, 11:55
But when taken in context with the following editorial from 4br in December 2004:

http://4barsrest.com/editorial/ed016.asp

Obviously only applies to some areas then...................Good point, but I'd argue that one of the areas it seems to apply to is "all of the area previews". Even if there is a difference for the london previews, it could be that is because they're trying to do those previews while at the same time completing and posting the retrospectives from five other areas.

It's still not hugely impressive, all the same.

Owen S
14.03.2008, 12:00
It must be remembered that it was the nationals that added a section rather than SCABA deciding to be different - there just aren't enough bands to justify adding a section.Well, that's true to an extent, but while you do see other contests with only four sections, I don't know of any others that distribute bands quite like SCABA, the others just merge the top two sections into a single championship section. The history of it is why there aren't that many Whit Friday contests with separate first section prizes, for example.

Accidental
14.03.2008, 12:04
I couldn't quite decide whether or not you thought that they were manually allocating an overlow point allocation to L&SC, when they do it automatically...
The points they allocate to LSC regional placings are extremely low compared with other areas - "Championship section 1st prizes range between 12 and 140 depending on the relative strength of each area". That then feeds into the self-perpetuating 'myth' that we are indeed the weaker region. If the rankings were just a bit of craic I woudln't give a sh*t, but when it can affect entry (or not) into things like the Spring Festival.....

Best of luck for Sunday btw - in the midst of huge changes in some top section bands this year, you guys are lookign more consistent than ever.

And to anyone playing tomorrow (OMG is it really only 24 hours away?!!) good luck, have fun, and see you in the bar!

Chunky
14.03.2008, 12:15
And to anyone playing tomorrow (OMG is it really only 24 hours away?!!) good luck, have fun, and see you in the bar!


Yep 24 hours and we will be leaving the bandroom! Will definitely be in the bar although having just read this (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7294860.stm)I may need to take some additional cash.

I have been appointed official fine collector so some people may wish to transfer their fine direct to my bank!

MoominDave
14.03.2008, 12:26
To point up the inequality of 4BR's gradings...
We (Kidlington) are not a bad band. Now, we're not going to set the world on fire with our playing, but we do sit 3rd in the L&SC championship section table going into Sunday's contest (maybe we'll sit a bit lower afterwards!).
4BR ranks us 176th.

Looking at the three areas that contain the strongest top level bands, this is lower than:
11/11 NW championship section bands
6/14 NW 1st section bands
1/12 NW 2nd section bands
3/20 NW 3rd section bands
12/12 Yorkshire championship section bands
5/14 Yorkshire 1st section bands
3/11 Yorkshire 2nd section bands
9/9 Welsh championship section bands
8/11 Welsh 1st section bands
1/8 Welsh 2nd section bands
In addition there are 1 NW 1st section band, 2 NW 2nd section bands, and 2 Yorkshire 1st section bands within the 7 places below us.

It's all a bit silly...

MoominDave
14.03.2008, 12:30
The points they allocate to LSC regional placings are extremely low compared with other areas - "Championship section 1st prizes range between 12 and 140 depending on the relative strength of each area". That then feeds into the self-perpetuating 'myth' that we are indeed the weaker region. If the rankings were just a bit of craic I woudln't give a sh*t, but when it can affect entry (or not) into things like the Spring Festival.....

Still not sure if we're saying the same thing or not - as I understand it, they don't manually feed in these numbers, but calculate them from the rankings of the competing bands. I think we probably are!


Best of luck for Sunday btw - in the midst of huge changes in some top section bands this year, you guys are lookign more consistent than ever.

Thank you! Not sure that such faith is justified, but we'll be doing our best... And the best of luck to you (and to everyone else, of course).

Isn't it consistency that the 4BR rankings are designed to reward?! :-?

andywooler
14.03.2008, 12:45
I don't know of any others that distribute bands quite like SCABA, the others just merge the top two sections into a single championship section. Would you consider that fairer on the 1st section bands? That would just make them all a bit like Derby & Fulham i.e. just making up the numbers!

Owen S
14.03.2008, 12:53
Would you consider that fairer on the 1st section bands? That would just make them all a bit like Derby & Fulham i.e. just making up the numbers!No, I wouldn't. Of course once you introduce local ranking as well, the difference is only one of nomenclature anyway.

backrowboy
14.03.2008, 13:08
I would just like to wish all competing bands this weekend the very best of luck.

Will the Sec
14.03.2008, 13:08
Would you consider that fairer on the 1st section bands? That would just make them all a bit like Derby & Fulham i.e. just making up the numbers!

I felt quite insulted on my former band mate's behalf until I realised you were talking football and not banding...

Bungle
14.03.2008, 14:03
Should be interesting for me in third section helping out Uckfield on Bb, I shall be contesting against my old band friends at BAE systems (left due to job change) and their principle cornet is also the MD of my present band. All the best to the other bands and say hello if you see me. I am always shy asking people if they are from tMP in case I am wrong and embarass myself (erm more than usual). Should be setting off at 6:30 tomorrow morning :shock: picking up 'the_drew' on the way.

dread0
14.03.2008, 14:10
May the gods of fortune shine their face upon this phoenix ...

Great to see it happen, i.e. that you have returned to National Contesting (permanently, I hope).

If can get there early enough tomorrow I will try to get to hear your performance before our own draw/rehearsal/performance in the afternoon.

Don't be too bothered about any result that may come your way.

In contrast to my above wish, just think: "existentialism" ...

8{

Andrew R
14.03.2008, 16:05
Good luck to all in the Championship Section....I'm sad I won't be there...

Andrew R
Baritone (retired!)

Katy Hudson
14.03.2008, 17:57
I'd like to wish Wantage B the best of luck - bring it home, peeps!!!!:clap:

brassbandmaestro
14.03.2008, 19:38
Being out of the contesting scene for a number of years. someone said to me that to qualify for the LSC REgional you have to be a prizewinner at SCABA. This chap talking a load of rubbish. Never heard anything quite like it.

Chunky
14.03.2008, 21:20
Being out of the contesting scene for a number of years. someone said to me that to qualify for the LSC REgional you have to be a prizewinner at SCABA. This chap talking a load of rubbish. Never heard anything quite like it.

You are correct he is talking absolute rubbish!

brassbandmaestro
15.03.2008, 01:28
Good luck to all competing bands this weekend. I wouldve been coming but other stuff got in the way, drat!

MRSH
15.03.2008, 11:07
3rd Section Draw

Courtesy of 4barsrest (http://www.4barsrest.com/news/detail.asp?id=7435)

Waterbeach Brass, J. Utting, 1
Woodbridge Excelsior, A. Duguid, 2
Croydon Brass, P. Martin, 3
Hangleton, M. Pollard, 4
Uckfield Concert Brass, S. McIntyre, 5
BAE Systems, K. Woodger, 6
Stantonbury Brass, A. Jenkin, 7
Hungerford Town, T. Crouter, 8
L.G.B. Brass, I. Stewart, 9
Chalgrove, M. Pegram, 10
Hitchin Town, M. Hurrell, 11
Brighton & Hove City Brass, M. Hackett, 12
St. Sebastian Wokingham, A. Porter, 13
Littleport Brass, N. Bramley, 14
Great Yarmouth Brass, S. Philpot, 15
Fulham, S. Jones, 16
E.P.B., I. Mitchell, 17

IYOUNG
15.03.2008, 11:17
Best of luck to my pals at Chalgrove, sorry I can't be with you today.

Ian

Charlotte Elmer
15.03.2008, 16:31
3rd Section Results, Courtesy of 4Barsrest...

http://www.4barsrest.com/news/detail.asp?id=7435

Saturday 15 March
Main Concert Hall
Adjudicator: Steve Pritchard-Jones
The Dark Side of the Moon - Paul Lovatt-Cooper
Commences: 10:00am

1. Littleport Brass, N. Bramley, 14, 183
2. Hangleton, M. Pollard, 4, 182
3. Brighton & Hove City Brass, M. Hackett, 12, 181
4. Stantonbury Brass, A. Jenkin, 7, 180

brassbandmaestro
15.03.2008, 18:21
Well done to Brighton & Hove City Brass!! A very good result to you guys there. Hope you do well at Hove!

brassbandmaestro
15.03.2008, 18:35
Also, forgot to say well done to hangleton Band, great result there to. Well done!!

IYOUNG
15.03.2008, 18:53
Congratulations to the top four

Positions 5-17 anyone?

Daisy Duck
15.03.2008, 19:35
Had a text from one of my good friends at Uckfield - they came 6th.

Ryan_Littleport
15.03.2008, 20:11
WOoooo HOooooo !

Bring on the Finals.

:)

brassneck
15.03.2008, 21:03
Section 1 RESULTS

Saturday 15 March
Main Concert Hall
Adjudicator: David Horsfield
James Cook - Circumnavigator - Gilbert Vinter
Commences: following 3rd Section results

1. Jersey Premier Brass, T. Pritchard, 14, 192
2. Ipswich & Norwich Co-op, R. Norman, 12, 190
3. St. Albans City, D. Shead, 9, 188
4. Matthews Norfolk Brass, D. Stowell, 5, 187
5. Egham, G. Green, 8, 186
6. Horsham Borough, K. Maxwell, 15, 185
7. Sandhurst Silver, I. McElligott, 4, 184
8. City of Cambridge, P. Bassano, 13, 183
9. Friary Guildford, C. King, 1, 182
10. Becontree Brass, G. Chambers, 6, 180
11. Regent Brass, A. Duguid, 7, 178
12. Soham Comrades, G. Sheldon, 3, 176
13. Cawston, C. Swaep, 2, 174
14. Northfleet Brass, A. Austin, 10, 172
15. Denham Hendon, G. Davies, 11, 170

Top 2 bands qualify
Soloist: Cornet, St. Albans City

Section 3 RESULTS

Saturday 15 March
Main Concert Hall
Adjudicator: Steve Pritchard-Jones
The Dark Side of the Moon - Paul Lovatt-Cooper
Commences: 10:00am

1. Littleport Brass, N. Bramley, 14, 183
2. Hangleton, M. Pollard, 4, 182
3. Brighton & Hove City Brass, M. Hackett, 12, 181
4. Stantonbury Brass, A. Jenkin, 7, 180
5. St. Sebastian Wokingham, A. Porter, 13, 179
6. Uckfield Concert Brass, S. McIntyre, 5, 178
7. Waterbeach Brass, J. Utting, 1, 177
8. Woodbridge Excelsior, A. Duguid, 2, 176
9. Hitchin Town, M. Hurrell, 11, 175
10. Fulham, S. Jones, 16, 174
11. Croydon Brass, P. Martin, 3, 173
12. Hungerford Town, T. Crouter, 8, 172
13. Chalgrove, M. Pegram, 10, 171
14. BAE Systems, K. Woodger, 6, 170
15. L.G.B. Brass, I. Stewart, 9, 169
16. Great Yarmouth Brass, S. Philpot, 15, 168
17. E.P.B., I. Mitchell, 17, 167

Top 3 bands qualify

http://www.4barsrest.com/news/detail.asp?id=7435

andyh
15.03.2008, 22:42
Woodbridge are very pleased with their 8th place, which represents a return to form for the band, having had to settie for 13th place last year. We'd like to thank MD Alan Duguid (cornetcheese of this parish) and Assistant MD Jak Walker and the whole band for their hard work and consistent commitment to rehearsals which has resulted in this years result!

Andy

DanB
15.03.2008, 23:56
well done Ian and Ipswich / Norwich co-op!! I guess coming along to Bedworth for a listen to the Mids first section must have helped?!!!!!!
Nice one!

Jasonp
16.03.2008, 00:39
Nice one Brighton & Hove, enjoy Harrogate, and well done Egham, great result.

Robin Norman
16.03.2008, 01:47
Just got in from the party in the curry house in Stevenage. Chuffed to bits and looking forward to my appearance in the National Finals as an MD. A big thank you to all the members, supporters and families of the Ipswich and Norwich Co-op Band; a great bunch of people that I have the pleasure to stand in front of twice a week. As always it was a pleasure and they worked bloomin' hard for today. Following on from the cracking result at Butlins I'm doubly happy.:clap:

A huge congrats as well to Jersey Premier Brass, a great bunch of people that we shared a bit of banter with in the bar. See you in Harrogate and let's do the L&SC area proud in the First Section.

jerseylugs
16.03.2008, 02:33
Firstly, having a great night in Stevenage and still celebrating at the wonderful Holiday Inn (Express). celebrations that will no doubt continue into the very, very late hours.
Secondly, great to join with Ipswich at Harrogate. Hope we can provide L&SC with a 1;2.
Thanks to all our supporters today and see you all soon.

sophunk
16.03.2008, 09:18
Does it frustrate anyone else....Why is it that some bands still buy players in for contests for the reason they do( leave that one there) and still end up in the top four in their section?

Not sour grapes as I was not playing this year, but never understood the mentalitity of buying players in just for a contest to get a good result and then them disappearing and being left with a skeleton band to go to finals if they qualify, or doing it to maintain reputation

Any thoughts welcome

Iain