View Full Version : SmithWatkins - calling all cornet, trumpet and flugel players!
maestO_SO_musical
19.10.2007, 19:22
They have been mentioned in a couple of threads before, but I think that they need a LOT more recognition. They manfacture Cornets (Bb and Eb), trumpets, flugels and fanfare trumpets.
They are amazing HAND MADE instruments, I feel better than anything that Besson or Yamaha have ever produced.
I went to Richard Smith's house in Yorkshire a couple of weeks ago to test the cornets and I have ordered one, which will be made by hand, to my requirements.
Also, I can swap the leadpipes (the bit between the mouthpiece and the tuning slide)
I have ordered 2 leadpipes -
one is SO easy to play, brilliant for marches and strenuous band playing
the other makes a BRILLIANT sound:tup, but is for solos, as it could not be played on for two hours straight.
THEY ARE BRILLIANT INSTRUMENTS AND IF YOU HAVE HEARD OF THEM OR ARE INTERESTED POST HERE OR GO TO THEIR WEBSITE - www.smithwatkins.com (http://www.smithwatkins.com)
THEY ARE THE BEST!:clap: :clap: :clap:
impycornet
21.10.2007, 18:45
I play one - have done for years
WoodenFlugel
21.10.2007, 20:41
I believe their flugels are (were?) made by Kanstul - the picture on the Smith Watkins website looks like a CCF925 flugel and from what's listed on the two sites the specs match. Nothing wrong with that, Kanstul instruments are stonking bits of kit and I guess buying a Smith Watkins one means you don't have the hassle of trying to get hold of a Kanstul instrument.
I've had one for 2 years now. Like the cornet, don't like the case! Top-notch protection but the darn thing near gives me a hernia lugging it around :)
First day I had it I was a little careless putting it back into the boot of the car and just brushed against (honestly) the car's rear light cluster. Oops - isn't that a big crack that's suddenly appeared? :oops:
Andy
Got a cornet and its brilliant - even dropped it in a christmas concert and it bounced (got a row off Richard Smith in Harrogate when he fixed a trigger spring for me and spotted a small dent!)
remember reading somewhere that some of the parts are made by Kanstul to his spec and then he puts them together - I used to have a Besson Meha trumpet that had lots of similar parts to the Smith Watkins cornet I have got and found out that Kanstul made those for Besson so i think a few people get the bits ready made and solder them together.
brassneck
21.10.2007, 21:57
remember reading somewhere that some of the parts are made by Kanstul to his spec and then he puts them together
- compare the Kanstul (http://www.kanstul.net/pages/instruments/zk%20models/zkc1531m.html) to the Smith-Watkins (http://www.smithwatkins.com/media/cornet.jpg) and they are surprisingly similar in basic design!
The Smith Watkins instruments are Kanstuls. This may have changed but they are shipped unfinished to the UK, Smith Watkins fit lead pipes and then they are finished by Eclipse e.g. sliver plated.
The Smith Watkins instruments are Kanstuls. This may have changed but they are shipped unfinished to the UK, Smith Watkins fit lead pipes and then they are finished by Eclipse e.g. sliver plated.
Almost right... Eclipse don't do any work on the K2 model, the one with the fixed leadpipe.
Andy
maestO_SO_musical
23.10.2007, 10:02
I believe their flugels are (were?) made by Kanstul - the picture on the Smith Watkins website looks like a CCF925 flugel and from what's listed on the two sites the specs match. Nothing wrong with that, Kanstul instruments are stonking bits of kit and I guess buying a Smith Watkins one means you don't have the hassle of trying to get hold of a Kanstul instrument.
Well, in his workshop he had bits of flugels (bells etc.) hanging off the wall, so I think that he does make them...
Not 100% but I think that's right
Just for general info. Our Flugel player (Newport Borough Brass) has just taken prized possession of a Richard Smith prototype :cool: . What makes this model different is the positioning of the trigger and the fact that there are TWO :eek: , yes two triggers. Lovely tone, great build quality, really comfortable to hold and use, no reason for any more intonation problems (excuses) :wink: A 5 Star piece of kit :clap: :clap:
brasscrest
23.10.2007, 14:08
Well, in his workshop he had bits of flugels (bells etc.) hanging off the wall, so I think that he does make them...
Not 100% but I think that's right
Almost all instrument makers buy pre-made parts and then complete the instrument to their own specifications. I wouldn't expect that Smith & Watkins have an in-house brass forge or the means to draw raw brass tubing in their shop. The more rough forming that is done by the metals supplier, the more time the finisher has to work on the finer details.
Almost all instrument makers buy pre-made parts and then complete the instrument to their own specifications. I wouldn't expect that Smith & Watkins have an in-house brass forge or the means to draw raw brass tubing in their shop. The more rough forming that is done by the metals supplier, the more time the finisher has to work on the finer details.
Yes ,and there's a lot of co-trading between small makers. 'A' will hand-craft bells for 'B', despite the fact that 'A' has a competing product. Same for leadpipes. It's not as cut-and-dried as it appears from the outside...
Andy
maestO_SO_musical
23.10.2007, 18:02
By the way, I'm getting nothing for plugging them :-)
Just for general info. Our Flugel player (Newport Borough Brass) has just taken prized possession of a Richard Smith prototype :cool: . What makes this model different is the positioning of the trigger and the fact that there are TWO :eek: , yes two triggers. Lovely tone, great build quality, really comfortable to hold and use, no reason for any more intonation problems (excuses) :wink: A 5 Star piece of kit :clap:
Neither am I (ref. previous post) but do you think if we work to keep this thread on the front page there may be ?? Whats the going rate for internet advertising these days :-)
maestO_SO_musical
24.10.2007, 08:32
I've had one for 2 years now. Like the cornet, don't like the case! Top-notch protection but the darn thing near gives me a hernia lugging it around :)
First day I had it I was a little careless putting it back into the boot of the car and just brushed against (honestly) the car's rear light cluster. Oops - isn't that a big crack that's suddenly appeared? :oops:
Andy
I've paid for the full flight case. It's lighter and it's BRIGHT BLUE!
Sorry about that, but I should be able to recognise it from a distance.
maestO_SO_musical
24.10.2007, 08:34
Neither am I (ref. previous post) but do you think if we work to keep this thread on the front page there may be ?? Whats the going rate for internet advertising these days :-)
Never thought of that. Well, they get about 50 quid an hour or something like that for these soppy adverts on the top and sides. Hmm, good idea.
maestO_SO_musical
24.10.2007, 08:35
Almost all instrument makers buy pre-made parts and then complete the instrument to their own specifications. I wouldn't expect that Smith & Watkins have an in-house brass forge or the means to draw raw brass tubing in their shop. The more rough forming that is done by the metals supplier, the more time the finisher has to work on the finer details.
No, but I wouldn't be surprised. Have you seen the size of the place?
WoodenFlugel
24.10.2007, 09:21
Never thought of that. Well, they get about 50 quid an hour or something like that for these soppy adverts on the top and sides. Hmm, good idea.
Erm no we don't - nothing like 50 quid an hour in fact. Those "soppy" ads go some way towards our huge running costs - but nowhere near fully covering them. Its a sad fact that tMP is still mostly funded from John's own pocket.
TBH we'd rather we didn't have the ads there, but as things stand its a simple equation - no ads or no tMP.
maestO_SO_musical
24.10.2007, 09:23
Oh right - I know that some websites get fifty quid an hour - must be those million visitor a day websites
Jonny5Stars
24.10.2007, 17:52
Yes but, won't a SW cornet stick out like a sore thumb amongst a front row of Besson/Yamaha/Courtois?
An individual player will have to opt for similar instruments to his colleagues.
(Read an article that Martins Committee trumpets had a similar problem blending with other makes.)
brasscrest
24.10.2007, 18:01
Yes but, won't a SW cornet stick out like a sore thumb amongst a front row of Besson/Yamaha/Courtois?
An individual player will have to opt for similar instruments to his colleagues.
(Read an article that Martins Committee trumpets had a similar problem blending with other makes.)
So every time someone goes to a new band, or deps for someone, they have to purchase a new instrument? That hardly makes sense.
An instrument that won't blend with other makes won't sell. I've not heard of any such issue with the S & W cornets.
Yes but, won't a SW cornet stick out like a sore thumb amongst a front row of Besson/Yamaha/Courtois?
It doesn't exactly stand out, but yes it can be a little prominent, especially if one gets a little too carried away in "Queen Rules" :oops: I think it takes a really good player (which I'm not) to get the best out of the instrument. One thing which no-one else has commented on is that SW cornets warm up really quickly, being much lighter than Sov 928s, and this can give rise to the blending issue until everyone is warm and in tune at the same time...
I'm currently trying out an Eclipse red-bell cornet, and finding it a fantastic instrument, very easy to play and a superbly sweet tone...
Andy
I found that when I had an SW that it did tend to be a bit brighter than the Bessons, Getzens and Yamaha's. That was playing with a Sparx 4 mouthpiece. You could blend but I found it a bit too easy to stick out.
I now have a Wedgwood.
TORBAY BRASS BAND
26.10.2007, 16:39
Top class instruments, top class customer service too. Worth the outlay!
blinddogjohn
29.10.2007, 11:03
Hi All
Smith Watkins are the best cornets on the market today.
Try one!! It's the only way to appreciate why so many players are buying them.(Including such great players as Jim Shepherd)
I'm not bothered about who makes the bits the way they end up is just amazing.
I'm not disputing that James Shepperd has a SW cornet but I do know that he normally plays on a Wedgwood.
I'm not disputing that James Shepperd has a SW cornet but I do know that he normally plays on a Wedgwood.
Wedgwood doesn't make cornets anymore...
I wish people would stop teasing me :-(
brassneck
08.11.2007, 18:14
Wedgwood doesn't make cornets anymore...
I wish people would stop teasing me :-(
- he still advertises one on his website though! :cool:
http://www.deniswedgwood.com/prods.html
- he still advertises one on his website though! :cool:
http://www.deniswedgwood.com/prods.html
A message from him posted recently on a mailing list contained this:
" - *Yes*, I stopped making Cornets early last year. Plenty of orders,
but making the valves was getting
'knackering' to use the vernacular. Ramming tubes in holes is OK when you
are 30ish. I ain't!"
WoodenFlugel
08.11.2007, 23:40
Is "he" still making and fitting those fantastic Saturn waterkeys? They're a lovely solution to a grotty problem. :)
Yes you can still get Saturn water keys from Denis. A lovely invention.
Just for general info. Our Flugel player (Newport Borough Brass) has just taken prized possession of a Richard Smith prototype :cool: . What makes this model different is the positioning of the trigger and the fact that there are TWO :eek: , yes two triggers. Lovely tone, great build quality, really comfortable to hold and use, no reason for any more intonation problems (excuses) :wink: A 5 Star piece of kit :clap: :clap:
Have just bought this model. Absolutley awesome. Was playing a Maestro flugel and tried a Strad and a Geneva but this was something else. Not exactly the cheapest instrument on the market but worth every penny. Bought a case as I didn't fancy shoving it in a gig bag - its a bit big but its nearly bomb proof! Richard Smith was very helpful too - he even sorted out a part ex for me on the maestro.
Girlfriend wasn't too happy when she found out the price - kept pointing to a finger on her left hand but as I pointed out to her, a flugel is for life!!!!
Went to Richard Smiths in York to try them, I bought the one without the interchangeable pipes about a year ago, but it is the best cornet i've ever played on and worth every penny. The only down side is that the vavles are that tight that they need oiling every time i pull it out to play on. I kept my Besson 928 to use for marches and outside jobs so i dont damage the watkins :-)
LeDragon
28.10.2008, 23:41
I play a Smith-Watkins fanfare trumpet from time to time and it is very good to be fair.
Interesting feature and video clip about Smith-Watkins and how they are made.
http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/features/Blowing-his-own-trumpet.4932957.jp
Still loving the new Flugel 4 months on. Feel like I'm carrying a tuba with the case though!
jockinafrock
01.02.2009, 17:05
I've had one for 2 years now. Like the cornet, don't like the case! Top-notch protection but the darn thing near gives me a hernia lugging it around :)
First day I had it I was a little careless putting it back into the boot of the car and just brushed against (honestly) the car's rear light cluster. Oops - isn't that a big crack that's suddenly appeared? :oops:
Andy
Interesting feature and video clip about Smith-Watkins and how they are made.
http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/features/Blowing-his-own-trumpet.4932957.jp
Still loving the new Flugel 4 months on. Feel like I'm carrying a tuba with the case though!
Boy wonder's had his for about 3 years now and it has been worth every penny. Got to agree about the case - got a gig bag now so that he doesn't develop a dowager's hump carrying it around! Handy when there are no step ladders nearby mind! :clap:
Gonna have a look at this site now... :tup
Boy wonder's had his for about 3 years now and it has been worth every penny. Got to agree about the case - got a gig bag now so that he doesn't develop a dowager's hump carrying it around! Handy when there are no step ladders nearby mind! :clap:
Gonna have a look at this site now... :tup
I *wanted* to buy a gig bag, but my insurer was quick to point out that the policy didn't cover damage to the cornet unless the original case was used!
Andy
I *wanted* to buy a gig bag, but my insurer was quick to point out that the policy didn't cover damage to the cornet unless the original case was used!
Andy
Should have paid a little extra (not that much when you consider the price of the instrument in the first place!) and gone for the full flight case which is a lot lighter.......
Should have paid a little extra (not that much when you consider the price of the instrument in the first place!) and gone for the full flight case which is a lot lighter.......
True enough... although I didn't know that at the time.
All academic now though as I no longer have the instrument.
Andy
Have proudly owned a S&W K2 for some months now have tried all the rest of the super cornets out there.
Having previously used a 928 its taking some time to get used too.
Not over pushing for high notes etc :p
As for blending with 928's .... No issues whatsoever.... however, if you want to shift a gear you can make a point on a S&W ... in whatever way you like... play a more effortless A above the stave for example with a touch of vibrato just to twist the knife..
No getting away from the fact that its the successor to the 928.
Im looking for an old besson for marching with now.
The S&W K2 is a lot lighter than the 928 which means that a scratch on a 928 will be a ding on a K2. Although its lighter it certainly feels more engineered ! solid kit.
MrsDoyle
11.08.2009, 16:01
I want one of their tenor horns... very desirable *drools* ;-)
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