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Di
30.09.2007, 12:02
Official thread for the Regionals 2008 First section test piece, James Cook - Circumnavigator, Gilbert Vinter. :)

tpcornet12
30.09.2007, 14:56
Well, I'll start it off.. I absolutely love this piece and can't wait to have a go at it! We'll be recent promotees at the area next year and will probably find it quite a difficult piece to get up to standard, what do the more established 1st sectioners think?

Massive trombone parts but should be Ok as (thankfully) its one of our strongest sections at the moment.

Thirteen Ball
30.09.2007, 16:31
Nice to see such a forward-looking choice :rolleyes:

Sandy Smith
30.09.2007, 17:10
Nice to see such a forward-looking choice :rolleyes:


Call a spade a spade then.
What's wrong with it ?

HUDDSBASSBONE
30.09.2007, 17:20
Personally I like this piece. And I think audiences will pay to listen to bands play this because its a classic. I think all those who complained about last years test pieces should be grateful they have a piece that they'll enjoy rehearsing for weeks on end!

barrytone
30.09.2007, 17:26
Only had a quick run through at band but it seems like a wonderful piece, I agree I think the audiences will love listening to it and I am certain bands will enjoy rehearsing it. Don't think it's too hard for bands just promoted, not too much technical stuff, except the sixes, it'll be amazing to hear how many bands play them correctly. Bit surprised that we've got an older, established piece after Sinfonetta last year but I can't argue with the choice, an excellent piece of music and a good test for first section.

HUDDSBASSBONE
30.09.2007, 17:31
The sixes aren't hard, its just a question of measuring them right. I've heard a lot of bands rush through them, simply to make the piece sound more difficult and they've made a complete hash out of it. Anyway, good that you like it as well.

Will the Sec
30.09.2007, 18:57
Ian Perks will be in ecstasy - he's been advocating this for years!

stevetrom
30.09.2007, 19:08
Some proper trombone parts - that goodness !

ian perks
30.09.2007, 20:32
Ian Perks will be in ecstasy - he's been advocating this for years!
To Right i am
Ive been saying for about 3 years it should be the area test piece its
LONG OVERDUE and im so happy its been at long last the 1st section area test piece:clap: :biggrin: ;) :woo :woo

barrytone
30.09.2007, 21:07
The sixes aren't hard, its just a question of measuring them right. I've heard a lot of bands rush through them, simply to make the piece sound more difficult and they've made a complete hash out of it. Anyway, good that you like it as well.

That's what I meant but probably didn't make myself clear. Don't think the sixes are technically difficult but think the pitfalls of bands failing to place them correctly will cause lots of problems. The tendancy to see lots of notes and set off like a train, especially on stage when the adrenaline is flowing, will become overwhelming within many performances I fear. Plenty of other tests within the piece, will take a good band to play it well on the day.

stevetrom
01.10.2007, 01:06
Please, please, please - by all means have a look at the piece abd a blow through but, if we (or you) think we are a 1st section band, don't start rehearsing the piece until january.

If we (you) can't play it with 10-12 weeks of rhearsal we (you) don't deserve to be in the section.

Talk again in nfebruary !

robcav
01.10.2007, 01:21
Please, please, please - by all means have a look at the piece abd a blow through but, if we (or you) think we are a 1st section band, don't start rehearsing the piece until january.

If we (you) can't play it with 10-12 weeks of rhearsal we (you) don't deserve to be in the section.

Talk again in nfebruary !

Given that the Yorkshire regional contest is at the very beginning of March rather than the middle, and that prior to this there is the usual pleasurable inconvenience of Christmas and all its musical challenges to attend to, would I be mistaken in thinking that Yorkshire bands may well be having a look at the piece earlier than January. There's a lot more to this piece than meets the eye.

dyl
01.10.2007, 01:26
Please, please, please - by all means have a look at the piece abd a blow through but, if we (or you) think we are a 1st section band, don't start rehearsing the piece until january.

If we (you) can't play it with 10-12 weeks of rhearsal we (you) don't deserve to be in the section.

Talk again in nfebruary !
And you're saying this on behalf of who exactly?

HBB
01.10.2007, 01:31
Himself as a 1st section bander.

dyl
01.10.2007, 01:35
Himself as a 1st section bander.
And that gives him the right to dictate how other bands in the same section should approach what to them could be the highlight of their contesting calendar?

I'd much rather hear a band who has rehearsed the piece to death play the piece well, than listen to a band who underestimated the piece and leave it too late to start their preparation, murder the piece on stage.

brassneck
01.10.2007, 01:49
I'm listening to the early '70s performance by GUS (Footwear). I wonder if this is the manuscript copy they played from? Great musical performance but it contains what seems like written errors (note-wise) in the parts.

stevetrom
01.10.2007, 01:54
And that gives him the right to dictate how other bands in the same section should approach what to them could be the highlight of their contesting calendar?

I'd much rather hear a band who has rehearsed the piece to death play the piece well, than listen to a band who underestimated the piece and leave it too late to start their preparation, murder the piece on stage.

i am just suggesting that we (the 1st section) have been given a really good piece for the area contest and should not ruin the experience by killing it for 6 months (area dates excepted). If any band (in any section) can't play the given piece with 12 weeks (or so) rehearsal they are (probably) in the wrong section.

stevetrom
01.10.2007, 01:59
[quote=dyl;555711]
I'd much rather hear a band who has rehearsed the piece to death quote]

just read your answer again and I am soooooooooo glad you do not conduct my band !!!!

anyone who would willingly allow a band to (and I quote) "rehearse the piece to death" would NOT be welcome in my band :mad: .

It is supposed to be a hobby and FUN, not a chore !

madandcrazytromboneguy
01.10.2007, 03:25
I played this at college, really good piece, really good trombone parts, you 1st sectioners should enjoy this 1!

As for how much you should rehearse it, if I were an MD in the 1st section, I would probably do a run through of the piece every rehearsal in december, so the players realise what they will be up against and then do the proper rehearsing of the piece all the way through january and february.

End of the day, you don't want your players not knowing what their part is like come 1st january, and also a run though each rehearsal in december breaks up all the xmas music you have to do, its a nice refreshing part of the xmas rehearsal, and would keep everyone interested. Plus this would hopefully mean that players wouldn't get bored of the piece too quickly, or peak too soon.

Again only my opinion, but I feel its a valid and realistic 1 :)

dyl
01.10.2007, 09:19
just read your answer again and I am soooooooooo glad you do not conduct my band !!!!

The feeling's mutual! I'm no conductor, but anyone or any band not willing to put in whatever time needed by the conductor due to some kind of 'elitist' view that they should be able to play it in a 'few weeks' probably are, like you say, in the wrong section. They should be playing for one of the 'big boys'.

tpcornet12
01.10.2007, 09:50
I think the aim of every band is to peak on stage (whatever their peak may be!). If that means spending 6 months on it then I say its time well spent!

What a shocking excuse though to say "we were in the wrong section" if that ever were used as an excuse! Why can't bands put extra effort into the area? For me, if we don't qualify for the finals I start thinking about the area in April!! And the year can be spent addressing weakenesses that can hopefully give the band chance of qualifying the year after.

It's called tenacity and dedication and it's what raises the standard of bands.

Andy_Euph
01.10.2007, 14:10
I'm just wondering if this is the first year since its inception that the 1st section area piece is on a par for diffculty and musical substance as the one chosen for the top section?

I like James Cook, should be a difficult test for the majority of 1st section bands and will most definately sort the wheat from the chaff.

4thmandown
01.10.2007, 16:45
I'm just wondering if this is the first year since its inception that the 1st section area piece is on a par for diffculty and musical substance as the one chosen for the top section?

I like James Cook, should be a difficult test for the majority of 1st section bands and will most definately sort the wheat from the chaff.

I would tend to agree. It may not be Vinter's finest work (in my opinion), but it will be an enjoyable challenge and one that should not be underestimated.

I seem to recall an awful lot of posts regarding "The Wayfarer" that underestimated the piece. Just because a piece isn't what I term a "black nasty" doesn't mean that it should be dismissed with contempt. After all, pride often comes before a fall.

Hunnybun_hannah
01.10.2007, 18:56
After all, pride often comes before a fall.
Indeed it does. Though it may not appear to be as technically difficult as other pieces i think James Cook will throw the competition open to all the bands in a section AND test bands on their sound and style rather than just technical merit, which is always good in my opinion. Looking forward to playing it.
Han x
:D

dizzy winslade
01.10.2007, 21:18
Rehearsing/working on a piece for six months for what ever reason would bore me to tears whether there was a lot for percussion or not. Last year's pontins piece for 4th section bored me so much in rehearsal after a couple of weeks that I realised I was in the wrong section.

If an area piece is too hard for me on stage after rehearsing from Jan, likewise, I would feel I was in the wrong section. The pieces are supossed to be graded for each section, presumably so each section can start working on it for roughly the same number of weeks before the contest????

Or maybe this is an irritated view through needing to be asleep by now due to laryngitis! (sp???)

tpcornet12
01.10.2007, 21:37
[quote=dizzy winslade;555859]The pieces are supossed to be graded for each section, presumably so each section can start working on it for roughly the same number of weeks before the contest????[quote]

Maybe so - but there is a continuum in a section. Some are capable of the next and some have just moved from the previous. In effect the winners are a section better than the last placed band. I agree for some it can be frustrating rehearsing for long periods! But I would be more annoyed if my conductor said "you've been playing it for xx weeks now, your obviously not good enough for the section". And if you give up trying because its taking a while then why the heck do you compete?

Surely its about bettering yourself and proving you do have a right to be there. The flip side is like saying "you don't deserve to stay in the section because you spent too long rehearsing it!!!!"

dizzy winslade
02.10.2007, 11:50
Hang on, I never said I'd give up trying. Sure there is a difference between top and bottom of a section but there is a good number of bands which are probably much of a muchness in each section.

JR
02.10.2007, 12:21
, would I be mistaken in thinking that Yorkshire bands may well be having a look at the piece earlier than January. T.

..right thats it - we're running it through on Thursday

JR

Thirteen Ball
02.10.2007, 13:25
You're not alone JR. We ran it through last night - which pretty well confirmed what I already thought.

Which reminds me....


Call a spade a spade then.
What's wrong with it ?

To Start with, there's the mistakes.

Just on my own part, there's six bars rest that's actually marked as two, Crescendos and diminuendos written the bar before they should be, missing dynamics, and in several places, the triplets aren't notated properly, leaving the player wondering if that 4:4 bar really should have 11 quavers in it....

We spent half last night's rehearsals just ironing these out. Not always easy getting an errata sheet for something this old either.

Secondly, I have to confess I operate from a point of personal prejudice. Vinter just doesn't do it for me. It's all a bit light and bright, almost childlike at times, like he's unable or unwilling to explore the darkness that could lie hidden within his work - thus providing an extra dimension. Plus it's all been done before - and usually better. (Though I will admit, not necessarily within a brass band context.)

Thirdly, after last year's "Not quite his best work but rather nice to listen to, very old school and haven't heard it in a while" that was Wayfarer, we get exactly the same thing, even down to the seafaring inspiration behind it, for this year's area!! You can forgive me for being a trifle dissapointed in that, I hope?

Though we didn't play Comedy overture, (Being promoted that year and playing Rienzi in stead) with that, Wayfarer and now James Cook back to back for the first section, I'm rather hoping whoever decides these things at least picks something that was written within the last thirty years next time out.

It's got some nice little moments, I'll give it that, but hardly the sort of thing to make my write home about it.

Side-tracking slightly, didn't it get left unfinished in a Mozart's requiem sort of style, before one Roy Newsome got hold of it and finished it?

Anno Draconis
02.10.2007, 13:47
Secondly, I have to confess I operate from a point of personal prejudice. Vinter just doesn't do it for me. It's all a bit light and bright, almost childlike at times, like he's unable or unwilling to explore the darkness that could lie hidden within his work - thus providing an extra dimension.

Try listening to the last movement of The Trumpets, or even bits of Triumphant Rhapsody - a woefully underused piece.


Side-tracking slightly, didn't it get left unfinished in a Mozart's requiem sort of style, before one Roy Newsome got hold of it and finished it?

Yes; he died late in 1969 (I think) having pulled out of adjudicating the Open (Spectrum) because of failing health. JCC was finished but only in short score as far as can recall, so Dr. N was responsible for scoring it. I'm not a fan of the piece, I think the stink surrounding Spectrum made Vinter retrench a bit.

johnmartin
02.10.2007, 14:14
I'm rather hoping whoever decides these things at least picks something that was written within the last thirty years next time out.Wasn't the relatively recent Voyage of Discovery used for 1st section 2 years ago? Another seafaring theme. :)

JR
02.10.2007, 14:45
Secondly, I have to confess I operate from a point of personal prejudice. Vinter just doesn't do it for me. It's all a bit light and bright, almost childlike at times, like he's unable or unwilling to explore the darkness that could lie hidden within his work - thus providing an extra dimension. Plus it's all been done before - and usually better. (Though I will admit, not necessarily within a brass band context.)

Oh dear - for the first time in a long while I have to strongly disagree with you Andi. I think there's a lot of "darkness" in his work - though this term is over-used nowadays, particularly with regard to film directors e.g "the last Harry Potter was much darker"!.
The last section of Spectrum is pretty dark, as was the funereal movement of Symphony of Marches (Arthur Butterworth once wrote a superb analysis and critique of that in the 70s)
And there's nothing remotely child-like in his scoring, which was so striking at the time - opening to Salute to Youth? Opening to Variations on a Ninth? Ending to Triumphant Rhapsody?
And then there's his slow music, romantic occasionally, but great enough to be paid homage by Edward Gregson in his Soliloquy from Essay.

John R

Owen S
02.10.2007, 14:59
Wasn't the relatively recent Voyage of Discovery used for 1st section 2 years ago? Another seafaring theme. :)Oceans for 2009 it is then. :D

Sandy Smith
02.10.2007, 15:10
Secondly, I have to confess I operate from a point of personal prejudice. Vinter just doesn't do it for me. It's all a bit light and bright, almost childlike at times, like he's unable or unwilling to explore the darkness that could lie hidden within his work - thus providing an extra dimension. Plus it's all been done before - and usually better. (Though I will admit, not necessarily within a brass band context.)

Oh dear - for the first time in a long while I have to strongly disagree with you Andi. I think there's a lot of "darkness" in his work - though this term is over-used nowadays, particularly with regard to film directors e.g "the last Harry Potter was much darker"!.
The last section of Spectrum is pretty dark, as was the funereal movement of Symphony of Marches (Arthur Butterworth once wrote a superb analysis and critique of that in the 70s)
And there's nothing remotely child-like in his scoring, which was so striking at the time - opening to Salute to Youth? Opening to Variations on a Ninth? Ending to Triumphant Rhapsody?
And then there's his slow music, romantic occasionally, but great enough to be paid homage by Edward Gregson in his Soliloquy from Essay.

John R

Absolutely correct John.

Vinters' output in the 1960's dragged brass band composition a little more into the 20th century with both his harmonic language and scoring.

Look at the test pieces from 1945/6/ to 1960.

Andi Cook is right in saying that it's all been done before,and better,if not in a brass band context - but that is the point.

Brass bands needed Vinter to give them a kick up the ****

Choosing a piece from the last thirty years won't of itself get you something "new".

If it's modern music you're after you're in the wrong movement.

Thirteen Ball
02.10.2007, 16:29
Wasn't the relatively recent Voyage of Discovery used for 1st section 2 years ago? Another seafaring theme. :)

Yes it was. Apolologies. I seem to have blotted that from my memory for a number of reasons.....

PS - By childlike, I meant the style of his writing, not the quality!

Chunky
02.10.2007, 17:03
Looked in the band library and we already have JC Circumnavigator. However it only has a short score! Also its has the duration marked on the short score as approx 10 minutes.

Does anybody know if the piece was ever abridged or is 10 minutes the normal duration?

Cheers

ps We will be looking at it before Christmas, hope we won't be penalised for that!

Its not that we wont be good enough, its just the way we like to prepare. To say you are not good enough if you need more than 12 weeks perparation time is such a pompous opinion.

Owen S
02.10.2007, 17:18
Chunky, the 1975 Dyke recording is listed as 11 minutes 2 seconds. Your guess is as good as mine whether that means the scores are the same.

Thirteen Ball
02.10.2007, 18:08
Mr Smith, and JR, Please feel free to disagree! That's why we're all here isn't it? The world would be a powerful boring place if we all thought the same thing.

I can appreciate, as compared to the state of brass band music at the time, Gilbert Vinter's work must've had a similar effect to that which Elvis presley's "Heartbreak Hotel" had on popular music at a similar time. I'm not questioning the importance of his work. With the possible exception of variations on a ninth, which I'm becoming rather fond of, I just don't like it very much, for the reasons I outlined earlier.

And no, I don't really like Elvis either....

I suppose the point about darkness is all relative - I guess I'm maybe being unfair. After all, to a lifelong heavy metal fan it's all going to sound a wee bit too nicey to me.

I would however, disagree with you Sandy that I'm in the wrong movement if I want new music. I think that'd be a terrible state of affairs for banding at large. I'll admit, there's not as much boundary-pushing stuff around as I'd like, however if that's what I think I suppose I should get on and write some.

But then Sandy, you could yet be proven right. Just a thought, but if there was enough new music about, they'd not have had to pick James Cook, would they? So maybe we're in no better a situation as a movement than we were when Vinter came along and somewhat rescued us last time?

towse1972
02.10.2007, 19:42
Does anyone know how many shed builders this is scored for?

Sandy Smith
02.10.2007, 20:38
Just a thought, but if there was enough new music about, they'd not have had to pick James Cook, would they?

Possibly true,although I doubt if the panel will see themselves as being forced to pick any piece.

Does anyone know the quality or quantity of new music submitted for consideration ?

I defence of the "test piece panel" they have an almost impossible task every year trying to get the correct balance between technical difficulty,players interest,players personal likes/dislikes,audience appeal,etc..

You only have to look at some of the discussions on this forum to see the vast rabge of what people deem suitable for any particular section.

Going back to "James Cook" I think the 1st section have got a piece which will provide a stern but fair test.

Sandy Smith
02.10.2007, 20:46
I would however, disagree with you Sandy that I'm in the wrong movement if I want new music.


Small point but..
what I actually wrote was you're in the wrong movement if you're looking for modern music - in the classical "art" music radio3 Saturday late night "Hear and Now" sense.

Two different things.

brassneck
02.10.2007, 21:27
A couple of points. I heard the rumour too that Roy Newsome had completed or scored James Cook but he has never been credited with such work. According to the Fairey sleevenotes for their recording, Vinter completed it in June 1969 (four months before his death) but never actually heard it performed. It also was not written as a test-piece.

Thirteen Ball
03.10.2007, 00:32
Small point but..
what I actually wrote was you're in the wrong movement if you're looking for modern music - in the classical "art" music radio3 Saturday late night "Hear and Now" sense.

Two different things.

Ah, I stand corrected. Seems I rather grasped the wrong end of the stick there!

The fact of it providing a test for the bands is certanly true. There's enough tricky bits to trip a few folk up. And I suppose you're right about the selectors having a tough job. No matter what piece they pick somebody is always going to end up on here being dis-chuffed with what they'd decided. It just happens to be me this time.

By the look of the other posts a lot of people are very pleased with the choice. Like anything else, it comes down to taste. But I doubt my opinion of the piece will have changed a great deal by the time we get it on stage next year.

Robin Norman
03.10.2007, 08:27
Have listened to the recording now as I didn't know JCC and am looking forward to it. It's going to be a stern test for the 1st Section, a lot harder than Wayfarer (arguably as hard as Festival Music) and, no doubt, some bands will struggle on it if anybody gets seasick ;)

Where oh where though, in some great symphonic-style writing, did the awful march thing 1/2 way through come from, would be suited to a bad proms concert; Elgar Pomp & Circumstance eat your heart out.

In terms of rehearsal, not going anywhere near it for a few weeks; too busy rehearsing Malcolm Arnold. May just run it through once next month to give everyone a 'heads up' before January but then Butlins. Plantagenets first so we won't be 'seriously' rehearsing it until the Monday after that. That gives us 18 rehearsals between the contests, hopefully that should be enough to get us the placing we need to get promoted. Part of me thinks that if we can't learn an 11-minute work in 36 hours (plus a full day workshop with a 'named' conductor) then we definately shouldn't be promoted but another part of me thinks 'but it is b****y hard'.

Should especially be fun in the gym in Stevenage with all those band silences followed by unison passages.

BigHorn
03.10.2007, 08:53
Where oh where though, in some great symphonic-style writing, did the awful march thing 1/2 way through come from, would be suited to a bad proms concert; Elgar Pomp & Circumstance eat your heart out.



In my opinion thats the best bit of it. I have listened a number of times now and it just does not grab me at all (except the marchy bit)-it all just seems a bit old fashioned.
Haven't played it yet though so my opinion may well change between now and the areas.

nadband
03.10.2007, 09:34
have to say i almost got the cornet back out for this years area to take a crack at JCC.Vinter is one of my fond memories of uni and i think his music is both underused in contests, and seriously underestimated in its difficulty. Even Vizcaya is tricky to pull off let alone this one!
Though to take a crack at Festival Music i might consider selling the wife!

johnmartin
03.10.2007, 10:04
Does anyone know how many shed builders this is scored for?Had a look through our set last night. There is one percussion part on the score, with two distinct lines on it. I'm no percussionist but it looks like one line for timps and another for drums/cymbals. I reckon you would get away with three players on this part easy.

brass journo
03.10.2007, 15:32
I'm not in the habit of having my two penneth on the forum when it comes to test-piece choices but I feel the need to join in!!
With regard to rehearsing it - the work starts now - there’s no shame in rehearsing it months before - for goodness sake we want to win the flipping contest so let's give ourselves the best chance - In fact I spent an hour yesterday and today practising my own part - I would rather have it absolutely right now rather than everyone thinking I couldn't play it! A for peaking on stage - what a load of rubbish! if you rehearse it there shouldn't be any peaks and troughs in what you play - maybe personal issues with playing like a tired lip etc or nerves but a performance shouldn't be affected overall, unless you all have a rubbish day or get nervous - both of which frequently happen with us!!
Anyway, I hope we rehearse it every week from now on and what's more we will be playing other Vinter works to get in the spirit of it all and to help understand his music and style - if it pays off then great but only the 2 judges can decide that and if doesn't we'll be back next year.
I have to say, it is not nearly my most favourite Vinter work and would have chosen Variations on a Ninth, Salute to Youth or Spectrum over it but it is still good, testing music - the point of a test-piece. However, I am personally sick and tired of se faring theme pieces for the 1st section - even the finals piece couldn’t help a bit of Jolly Roger.
One other point is I hope to god players and conductors don't rely on the damn Area CD again for how it goes. Do some research and find some good recordings of Vinter works and lets all do it justice.
Best of luck to all the bands across the country... and JR.... let battle commence!!!
Tabbs

Anno Draconis
03.10.2007, 15:37
One other point is I hope to god players and conductors don't rely on the damn Area CD again for how it goes. Do some research and find some good recordings of Vinter works and lets all do it justice.

:clap:

Or better yet - read the score!

Thirteen Ball
03.10.2007, 15:45
:clap:

Or better yet - read the score!

Couldn't agree more...

Shame the score and parts in our set don't match a little more closely though. ;)

johnmartin
03.10.2007, 16:45
Shame the score and parts in our set don't match a little more closely though. ;)We're the same. I checked through our set last night and we seem to have two sets mashed into one. One with a short score and the other with a full score. No 2nd bari part anywhere to be seen though. :(

JR
04.10.2007, 11:14
One other point is I hope to god players and conductors don't rely on the damn Area CD again for how it goes.

...that could be me talking

Best of luck to all the bands across the country... and JR.... let battle commence!!!
Tabbs


..wot?, me as well?

cheers,

JR

Gorgie boy
05.10.2007, 11:27
I can't wait. Will take Vinter's music any day of the week. It's not his best piece, but so much better than some of the guff we could have been asked to rehearse.

blasterbates
05.10.2007, 15:41
I checked through our set last night and we seem to have two sets mashed into one. One with a short score and the other with a full score. No 2nd bari part anywhere to be seen though. :(


We ran it through last night and I thought the shed building instructions looked different from when I last played it in the 80's. Half way through we realised pages 3 and 4 were missing. :oops: Great piece. I can think of others though which would benefit from pages 3 and 4 missing (and more).

simonbassbone
05.10.2007, 16:15
If any band (in any section) can't play the given piece with 12 weeks (or so) rehearsal they are (probably) in the wrong section.

So when did you start looking at James Cook :confused: ;)

stevetrom
05.10.2007, 19:20
So when did you start looking at James Cook :confused: ;)

we looked at in the summer as a possible own choice pices, but won't get it out again until after christmas.

and you?

troykelly
07.10.2007, 21:46
it's going to be fun :D

Bryan_sop
09.10.2007, 23:47
Please, please, please - by all means have a look at the piece abd a blow through but, if we (or you) think we are a 1st section band, don't start rehearsing the piece until january.

If we (you) can't play it with 10-12 weeks of rhearsal we (you) don't deserve to be in the section.

Talk again in february !

We don't even own it yet! Had a brief scan of the sop part at the finals, don't think there's anything overly taxing! (but then I did spend all of last week counting ledger-lines playing the 1st trumpet part of copacobana!)

Super Ph
10.10.2007, 00:43
That sounds wrong to me, from what I remember the soprano has some big "opportunities to shine"

tpcornet12
10.10.2007, 10:53
That sounds wrong to me, from what I remember the soprano has some big "opportunities to shine"

Yeah me too :-? ! Very dangerous statement to make so long before the area too... I hope for his band he doesn't under-estimate it just to prove he's capable!

Super Ph
10.10.2007, 20:37
I wouldn't say it was dangerous or otherwise, just completely incorrect.

I'm sure that nearer the time there will be plenty of chances to brick it.

jcowensEb
15.10.2007, 19:58
we havent got in out two practise yet,weve had it handed out but not ran through it yet,cant wait till we do,going to be fun,

k8 loves to bone
15.10.2007, 20:37
any other boners dreading the middle triplets? :eek: scared scared scared. haha. thankfully we've not just had to sight read it in a rehearsal, been given it to get a chance to get our heads round it. going to take a lot of practise that im definatley looking forward to. might go have a blow through now actually.

solo_euph
15.10.2007, 21:02
copes with notes missing and £50.00 to buy what a rip off.
When will we get music that we can just read and not have to decipher any one got an errata for this poor copy of a great test piece.Or is it just the set we have that is a photocopy of the 1969 set .Was hoping it might have been at least proof read and put right if not re printed at the price it seams a tad expensive for what it is.

madandcrazytromboneguy
15.10.2007, 23:59
hey Kate I'd love to be playing 1st section for the area, its a good set of trombone parts, I think you, Alison and whoever takes on top chair will enjoy it :)

slider
17.10.2007, 23:23
Mixed Feelings about about the piece selection having played it last year in the Durham league - the issue is can we hit the ground running and build on lasts years work or will boredom set in.
If you're fresh to the piece it will be enjoyable whatever your thoughts about the musical merits as you'll have something to keep you busy in the band room.
Trombone parts pleasant to play which is a good plus - triple tonguing in time as a section almost impossible. The 1970s recordings are a bit muffled so will be interested to hear a really clean and up to speed performance on the CD.

GJonno
18.10.2007, 00:09
A couple of points. I heard the rumour too that Roy Newsome had completed or scored James Cook but he has never been credited with such work. According to the Fairey sleevenotes for their recording, Vinter completed it in June 1969 (four months before his death) but never actually heard it performed. It also was not written as a test-piece.

I believe that the piece was indeed written as a test piece. It was commissioned for the New Zealand National Championships of 1969. It is true that Vinter died before the piece was performed in publc for the 1st time, in the NZ contest.
That's the first I've heard about the Newsome connection though - who fancies asking him?
However, having played it with the Newhall Band in the 70's when I was a wee sprog, I remember it as a fabulous piece of music, and I'm ever so slightly jealous not to be playing it again.
I used to have an old Dyke LP from the 70's that has a great rendition of the piece, really atmosperic. Forget the Regionals 2008 CD, try and get hold of the scratchy old Dyke version, it's fab!!!

brassneck
18.10.2007, 00:23
I believe that the piece was indeed written as a test piece. It was commissioned for the New Zealand National Championships of 1969. It is true that Vinter died before the piece was performed in publc for the 1st time, in the NZ contest.


I stand corrected as I have since found that information about it's contest use here (http://www.brassbandstuff.co.uk/history/brass-bands-1950-1980-1.php). However, I was quoting it's commission from the Fairey Band's CD sleevenotes 'Spectrum'.

"JC-C was Vinter's last work for brass band, being completed in June, 1969, barely four months before his death. He was never to hear it as it had been commissioned on behalf of the New Zealand Brass Band Association by the Port Nicholson Band Trust for performance during the Captain Cook Bicentenary Celebrations the following year. He was to visited New Zealand early in 1970 and was looking forward to the trip. It was not to be."

James Yelland
18.10.2007, 08:45
When will we get music that we can just read and not have to decipher any one got an errata for this poor copy of a great test piece.Or is it just the set we have that is a photocopy of the 1969 set .Was hoping it might have been at least proof read and put right if not re printed at the price it seams a tad expensive for what it is.

One of the reasons why pieces of music contain errata is because the publishers cannot afford to pay proof-readers to do the job properly. And one of the reasons why publishers can't afford proof-reading services is because some (many?) bands choose to use illegal photocopies instead of legal copies bought from the publisher.

johnmartin
18.10.2007, 09:34
Well, we're going to be using our original set from 1970 for this one.

dyl
18.10.2007, 11:31
One of the reasons why pieces of music contain errata is because the publishers cannot afford to pay proof-readers to do the job properly. And one of the reasons why publishers can't afford proof-reading services is because some (many?) bands choose to use illegal photocopies instead of legal copies bought from the publisher.

well, we've just bought a 'new' set and guess what it was - yup, a photocopy - and a very poor one at that.

tubafran
18.10.2007, 12:19
One of the reasons why pieces of music contain errata is because the publishers cannot afford to pay proof-readers to do the job properly.

Although they've had any number of bands find the errors in the score/parts over the years for free but still haven't amended the parts in new copies - sorry photocopies.

Laserbeam bass
18.10.2007, 14:33
This is just like Comedy Overture all over again. I'm sure the mods will set up an errata thread like they did a few years ago. I for one will contribute all I can, but being a BBb bass player, there will only be a few of us who will benefit ;)

on the subject of the test piece, I would have preferred Triumphant Rhapsody, but this is quite a good substitute.

Thirteen Ball
18.10.2007, 14:36
Although they've had any number of bands find the errors in the score/parts over the years for free but still haven't amended the parts in new copies - sorry photocopies.

I have to say, I've felt humiliated on the rare occasions someone has found a duff note, or a wrong dynamic etc in a set of parts I've written and passed out in our bandroom. It's my job to check the score and parts for mistakes, and I haven't done my job properly if there's errors.

After all, how can I expect a band to treat what I've written with respect if I don't offer them the same respect by making sure all they have to do is read what's on the part?

I'll admit it's easier in these days of modern technology, but surely it isn't too much to ask that a few corrections could have been made in the last FORTY-SEVEN YEARS.

ROBTHEDOG
18.10.2007, 15:26
I believe that the piece was indeed written as a test piece. It was commissioned for the New Zealand National Championships of 1969. It is true that Vinter died before the piece was performed in publc for the 1st time, in the NZ contest.
That's the first I've heard about the Newsome connection though - who fancies asking him?
However, having played it with the Newhall Band in the 70's when I was a wee sprog, I remember it as a fabulous piece of music, and I'm ever so slightly jealous not to be playing it again.
I used to have an old Dyke LP from the 70's that has a great rendition of the piece, really atmosperic. Forget the Regionals 2008 CD, try and get hold of the scratchy old Dyke version, it's fab!!!


As Graham says there are some old recordings apart from the new AREAS cd

Take a look at this download for £1.20 from old Chandos recording - Epic Brass Dyke with Parkes & Newsome (not sure of age of recording)

http://www.theclassicalshop.net/details06MP3.asp?CNumber=CHAN%204508
http://www.theclassicalshop.net/HiResArt/chan%204508.jpg

Maybe also worth listening to this old compilation -
http://www.4barsrest.com/shopping/cd_detail.asp?id=554

Anno Draconis
18.10.2007, 22:33
One of the reasons why pieces of music contain errata is because the publishers cannot afford to pay proof-readers to do the job properly. And one of the reasons why publishers can't afford proof-reading services is because some (many?) bands choose to use illegal photocopies instead of legal copies bought from the publisher.

But maybe if there was a "2007 edition" with all the errata sorted out there would be more of an incentive for bands to buy a new set, thereby generating new revenue for the publisher? As it is, all bands get for their £55 is a photocopy of the original score and parts. I can well understand (without neccesarily condoning) bands choosing to do the photocopying themselves. Plus, proofreading isn't actually that hard and could be done on a freelance basis by any competent brass band musician. For a piece of music that well over 100 bands will need to perform next March, the cost wouldn't be that much.



I have to say, I've felt humiliated on the rare occasions someone has found a duff note, or a wrong dynamic etc in a set of parts I've written and passed out in our bandroom. It's my job to check the score and parts for mistakes, and I haven't done my job properly if there's errors.

After all, how can I expect a band to treat what I've written with respect if I don't offer them the same respect by making sure all they have to do is read what's on the part?

I'll admit it's easier in these days of modern technology, but surely it isn't too much to ask that a few corrections could have been made in the last FORTY-SEVEN YEARS.


Hear, hear :clap:, couldn't agree more.

I was lucky enough to have a piece of mine chosen for the Swiss Nationals next month which Jagrins are publishing and both they and I took a great deal of care in proofreading the score and parts - the bands have had the music for a month now and to my knowledge no mistakes have been found.

There were also, as far as I know, no errata for Visions of Gerontius or Music for Battle Creek because (I presume) the composers/publishers of both took the neccesary care to avoid them.

It's perfectly possible, if publishers are prepared to make the effort, especially in the case of something like James Cook where a lot of the errata have been common knowledge for a while. It wouldn't actually take that long for a competent Sibelius user to re-set the whole thing and check it through properly. Frankly I get a bit annoyed that publishers who are guaranteed a big payday when area testpieces are chosen can't be bothered to ensure that what they provide is fit for purpose, especially when they know bands can't go elsewhere. This applies even more to the second section piece, which is a disgrace.

brassneck
18.10.2007, 22:41
As Graham says there are some old recordings apart from the new AREAS cd

Take a look at this download for £1.20 from old Chandos recording - Epic Brass Dyke with Parkes & Newsome (not sure of age of recording)

http://www.theclassicalshop.net/details06MP3.asp?CNumber=CHAN%204508
http://www.theclassicalshop.net/HiResArt/chan%204508.jpg

Maybe also worth listening to this old compilation -
http://www.4barsrest.com/shopping/cd_detail.asp?id=554

- There is also a recording from one of the alltime great albums by a brass band ... The World Champions Play Test Pieces For Brass (1972) by The G.U.S. (Footwear) Band conducted by Stanley Boddington. Also has Energy, Le Carnival Romain and Variations On A Ninth as fillers! Check your attics for this rare LP.

stevetrom
19.10.2007, 01:00
Taking this discussion into a slightly different area, just for a laugh we has a look at Festival Music (Champ section Area piece) the other night, for me (bass trombone) it is far less challenging than JCC. Or have I missed something?

solo_euph
19.10.2007, 03:32
One of the reasons why pieces of music contain errata is because the publishers cannot afford to pay proof-readers to do the job properly. And one of the reasons why publishers can't afford proof-reading services is because some (many?) bands choose to use illegal photocopies instead of legal copies bought from the publisher.

When the photo copy is by the publisher you would expect that at least they made sure all the music was there and not cut of the bottom of a page so we have to work out any note below bottom c on the part.

James Yelland
19.10.2007, 08:20
When the photo copy is by the publisher you would expect that at least they made sure all the music was there and not cut of the bottom of a page so we have to work out any note below bottom c on the part.

I agree. Send it back to them and demand goods of merchantable quality, and don't take no for an answer.

James Yelland
19.10.2007, 08:27
But maybe if there was a "2007 edition" with all the errata sorted out there would be more of an incentive for bands to buy a new set,

Publishers know well that the only incentive most bands need to buy music of this nature is when it is set as the test piece at a contest. It's the brass band equivalent of Pavlov's experiments with dogs.

James Yelland
19.10.2007, 08:30
I agree. Send it back to them and demand goods of merchantable quality, and don't take no for an answer.

I should also have said, quote the Sale of Goods Act at them, which requires goods to be 'fit for purpose' (to use a popular phrase).

Anno Draconis
20.10.2007, 11:10
Publishers know well that the only incentive most bands need to buy music of this nature is when it is set as the test piece at a contest. It's the brass band equivalent of Pavlov's experiments with dogs.

So, if the publishers know that their piece has been set as a test-piece and they can expect a Pavlovian reaction, they also know that they can expect an upsurge in sales as a result. Why then do they not make a relatively small investment to ensure that the music is accurate? There was even less excuse in 1969 when the piece was originally published, because in 1969 bands did not have access to photocopiers so if they wanted a new set the only option was to buy it.

No, I'm afraid the answer is simple laziness and corner cutting. Publishers know that bands have only two choices; to buy the piece, regardless of quality, or not to enter the contest. In terms of pure economics, the "cost" (in terms of prestige, loss of enjoyment, possible relegation) of not entering outweighs the "cost" (in terms of price and errata hassle) of buying the piece and until that balance is addressed somehow the situation will not change.

The only party that could exert some influence over this is Kapitol's music panel, who could quite easily refuse to select pieces with known errata issues or boycott publishers with a bad track record. However, they have no incentive to do this until bands start boycotting contests because of bad music quality. So, hands up who's going to withdraw in protest at shabby editing/printing?

Hmmm, thought so. :rolleyes:

brassneck
20.10.2007, 11:16
What about the feedback from the original panel who select the pieces? Errors should (or could) have been identified by them or even the bands asked to rehearse and record them. Issues like this could be nipped in the bud but they're not!

maestO_SO_musical
20.10.2007, 11:34
I've never heard of this piece - is it new?

dyl
20.10.2007, 12:52
Why then do they not make a relatively small investment to ensure that the music is accurate?
And it's not just the music either. How many bars does everyone else have between 'number' 60 and 'number' 70? If it's like ours it will cause a lot of confusion if the conductor wants to go from bar #65 for example - depending if you count from 60 or backwards from 70! ;)

tpcornet12
20.10.2007, 15:35
I've never heard of this piece - is it new?

It was written in the sixties. You should get yourself a recording of it - it's a great piece.

maestO_SO_musical
20.10.2007, 16:50
It was written in the sixties. You should get yourself a recording of it - it's a great piece.

Thanks for that - I will.

I don't usually buy new test piece CDs, but if it's a piece that's been selected, then that's different. They are usually so much better.

Thanks!

StanningtonBrassBand
20.10.2007, 17:35
Has anyone recently purchased a copy of the Circumnavigator?

I have just looked at the Score and found that it has been bound back to front (ie the last page of the piece is the first page and the last page is the first page)

tpcornet12
20.10.2007, 17:56
Thanks for that - I will.

I don't usually buy new test piece CDs, but if it's a piece that's been selected, then that's different. They are usually so much better.

Thanks!

Get Black Dyke's Epic Brass. There's other good stuff on there too

maestO_SO_musical
20.10.2007, 19:21
Get Black Dyke's Epic Brass. There's other good stuff on there too

Okay

The world of Brass Band CDs is a very difficult maze - if you don't know what you're looking for you'll keep going round and round in circles...

Thanks anyway

johnmartin
20.10.2007, 21:06
Has anyone recently purchased a copy of the Circumnavigator?

I have just looked at the Score and found that it has been bound back to front (ie the last page of the piece is the first page and the last page is the first page)

You're kidding us, right.

That is just absolutely atrocious.

winterman
20.10.2007, 23:16
The whole thing looks to be a very hastily prepared and badly photocopied attempt at publishing that seems to plague particularly the first section pieces.. And yes, we always complain about it but nothing changes.. the price got bumped up again!!

This never seems to have been such an issue with the Championship Section pieces we have done!

Our score is in the correct order but, as appears to be found elsewhere, the Euphonium part is missing a lot of the last line of the piece!!

As for errors, well, we have run through it once when it arrived 2 weeks ago and found serious errors running well into double figures, from tempo markings and numerous dynamics missing to entire segments of bars missing in particular in the bass parts, and bars missing across the board etc..

Takes my mind back to the 2004 National Finals (Elflands Daughter) and the 2006 National Finals (Perfect Fool) which was compounded by Chandos and the agent not being able to decide who actually should be responsible plus one of the Areas 1st Section pieces a couple of years back (can't remember the name or year at the moment but do remember a lot of running around trying to figure it out).

Surely the selection panel actually look at the pieces before deciding or do they randomly pick a piece out of a hat?!

GJonno
21.10.2007, 01:35
There seems to be an awful lot of questions being raised regarding the error count in the score/parts. If my assumption is correct that the old scores/parts are indeed being re-cycled, then I can't see that there should be any significant problems with the printed material.

If there are any discrepancies in the parts, then it should be pretty straight-forward to rectify the problem internally without having to whinge to 'the powers that be'. Remember, a contest isn't won or lost on the decision to play a Bb or Bnat in bar 235, it's just not important - honest!!

Back in the 70's (I'm showing my age now) we didn't have the benefit of the internet to discuss such things and we just got on with it in blissful ignorance. If you can, have a listen to Dykes recording circa 1975 - can you hear any 'wrong' notes?....No is the answer! There wasn't any protracted discussions on the 'error count' before Dyke won the 1974 British Open.

If you are concerned about what you should be playing, then listen to the recordings available and your questions will be answered.

My advice, for what its worth: Enjoy the music, enjoy your rehearsals, and most of all, enjoy your performance.

Get hold of a recording of the piece (preferably the Dyke recording of 1975 (RCA - LSA 3213)) and listen to Vinter at his best.

solo_euph
21.10.2007, 08:38
There seems to be an awful lot of questions being raised regarding the error count in the score/parts. If my assumption is correct that the old scores/parts are indeed being re-cycled, then I can't see that there should be any significant problems with the printed material.

If there are any discrepancies in the parts, then it should be pretty straight-forward to rectify the problem internally without having to whinge to 'the powers that be'. Remember, a contest isn't won or lost on the decision to play a Bb or Bnat in bar 235, it's just not important - honest!!

Back in the 70's (I'm showing my age now) we didn't have the benefit of the internet to discuss such things and we just got on with it in blissful ignorance. If you can, have a listen to Dykes recording circa 1975 - can you hear any 'wrong' notes?....No is the answer! There wasn't any protracted discussions on the 'error count' before Dyke won the 1974 British Open.

If you are concerned about what you should be playing, then listen to the recordings available and your questions will be answered.

My advice, for what its worth: Enjoy the music, enjoy your rehearsals, and most of all, enjoy your performance.

Get hold of a recording of the piece (preferably the Dyke recording of 1975 (RCA - LSA 3213)) and listen to Vinter at his best.


I have no problem with your ideas on this and agree with most of what you say .But you might find Dyke didn't play what was on the copy at the open back in 1974 but put the problems right .
My real grip is the price for a photo copy of the original that must have cost all of £12.00 to produce there is over a 90% mark up on the cost I wish I could make these size of mark up in line of business.
I understand that they have had to keep an unused copy in there archives for 40 years but is that not the norm and the cost of that minimal. Then with plenty of notice run of substandard sets of part of for the band that have no choice but to buy this poor copy to compete at the area contest this year.
Lets hope we can get a reply from Studio Music on this matter.

and remember Studio Dick Turpin had a mask for a reason

maestO_SO_musical
21.10.2007, 09:54
Personally I like this piece. And I think audiences will pay to listen to bands play this because its a classic. I think all those who complained about last years test pieces should be grateful they have a piece that they'll enjoy rehearsing for weeks on end!

Yes - that's why I prefer pieces like this instead of those written just for the contest that everyone will want to burn afterwards.

ian perks
21.10.2007, 11:18
Has anyone recently purchased a copy of the Circumnavigator?

I have just looked at the Score and found that it has been bound back to front (ie the last page of the piece is the first page and the last page is the first page)
Who are the fools/idiots who put the score together its a joke .
we have not got ours yet but have sent off for it,got all the parts but no score as someone walked off with it:eek:

ian perks
21.10.2007, 11:20
Who are the fools/idiots who put the score together its a joke .
we have not got ours yet but have sent off for it,got all the parts but no score as someone walked off with it:eek:
Meaning we have got a copy of the parts old set but score went missing

BigHorn
21.10.2007, 12:17
Its interesting to contrast the shocking level of service by some publishers as alluded to in this thread with the other thead about the excesses of PRS - Protection Racket Society - sorry Performing Rights Society. I really cant think of another industry where the customer is fleeced at every opportunity but where the goods supplied are so often below par (UK goverment tax system may run a close second).

Still havent played this piece yet although parts have been given out for home practice. Think we will get really stuck in after the Leicester and Leamington contests next month.

maestO_SO_musical
21.10.2007, 13:08
Unbelievable - they sometimes almost double the price and then fob you off with second-rate rubbish!

At least the music on the page is good

Super Ph
21.10.2007, 13:30
Are we honestly bitching about £50? Between the whole band? And there are a few, presumably obvious, misprints on the parts?

Time to get a life I reckon. The 70s recordings all sound great, as mentioned above.

brassneck
21.10.2007, 13:42
Are we honestly bitching about £50? Between the whole band? And there are a few, presumably obvious, misprints on the parts?

Time to get a life I reckon. The 70s recordings all sound great, as mentioned above.

- the GUS (Footwear) recording in 1972 exposes some of the printed errors (esp. in cornets/troms).

Di B
21.10.2007, 20:21
Are we honestly bitching about £50? Between the whole band? And there are a few, presumably obvious, misprints on the parts?

Time to get a life I reckon. The 70s recordings all sound great, as mentioned above.


Do you really expect for £50, that the publishers should be able to get away with photcopying the parts so poorly that notes are missing due to the way its been photocopied?
This is what has happened on the euph part..... this isn't a misprint, lets get that straight - it is a bad photocopy - something so basic that I wouldn't allow an office junior to do at work with any document, so why should this be different?

The misprints I partly agree with you with, its just a pity that the publishers haven't taken the opportunity to update the original test piece copies with the erratas published - in my mind that would be common sense and I would happily pay £10 more for this service!

bigE
21.10.2007, 21:43
Having been in banding for quite a few years, I have played tens of thousands of contest/concert pieces, some from the original composers/arrangers transcript and loads which have been bought and printed.

On the vast majority of these there is, or has been at least one error, some found immediately and others not noticed for years.

Worryingly the mistakes do seem to have increased over the last few years to the extent that large numbers of errors are now the norm.

The one big worry is that James Cook, immediately before it was announced as the area test piece was in the shops at around £35 per set. The day after the announcement was made, the same shop had to pay the publishers over £50 for the same thing, passig the extra cost onto the bands.

In my simple, possibly naive mind, if the publishers are making an increase and therefore a profit of around 30% then they should have a duty to make sure it is correct.

If, in the 30 years I have been in my job, I had made so many mistakes as in this one piece alone then I would have literally killed numerous people.

Yes we will keep spending money on music to play at contests, but we should all make it known to the publishers that the quality they pass onto us is not good enough. Only then will they even think improving the service they give.


I Clough

Anno Draconis
21.10.2007, 21:48
Are we honestly bitching about £50? Between the whole band? And there are a few, presumably obvious, misprints on the parts?

Yes. And?

Essentially bands that don't want to be relegated are having a gun held to their heads - buy this second rate rubbish, or don't attend and be relegated. It's not like we have a choice of buying from a different publisher with a better track record. Even then, I could live with it if these mistakes were unavoidable, but as I pointed out earlier I know from personal experience with Jagrins that it is possible to produce almost error free published music. So why isn't it being done?

Anno Draconis
21.10.2007, 21:52
Back in the 70's (I'm showing my age now) we didn't have the benefit of the internet to discuss such things and we just got on with it in blissful ignorance. If you can, have a listen to Dykes recording circa 1975 - can you hear any 'wrong' notes?....No is the answer! There wasn't any protracted discussions on the 'error count' before Dyke won the 1974 British Open.


Not in public; if they found mistakes in the copies do you really think that the Dyke of 1974 would have shared them with B&R, for instance? I'd be interested to know what conversations took place in the bandroom though.

One of the positive benefits of the internet is that it opens up discussions between members of different bands that simply didn't happen 20 years ago. When I started playing we would have no more discussed "errors" we found in a test-piece with our local rivals than we would have invited them to an open rehearsal. We'd have hoped that they played all the mistakes and got castigated for it. :oops:

Thirteen Ball
21.10.2007, 23:38
Yes we will keep spending money on music to play at contests, but we should all make it known to the publishers that the quality they pass onto us is not good enough. Only then will they even think improving the service they give.

I couldn't agree more. At the very least it's disrespectful to the customer to turn out such rubbish just because the publishers know they have to buy it.

I made a correction to a score I'd sent to kirklees music once, and they had no problems correcting it. There really is no excuse for mistakes in such an old piece - or for printing parts with bits missing etc.

I absolutely deplore illegal photocopying of music, but hiking the price of a piece fifteen quid just because it's been chosen as the test piece for the areas is an absolute scandal.

I think maybe a few bands might consider it justifiable to copy a neighbouring band's set after that - which will mean the publisher has shot themselves in the foot.

At if bands do break the law, that way they'll know they get the score in the right order!!

Will the Sec
21.10.2007, 23:42
Are we honestly bitching about £50? Between the whole band? And there are a few, presumably obvious, misprints on the parts?

Time to get a life I reckon. The 70s recordings all sound great, as mentioned above.

Amazing, the views of Some People.

I suppose you'd accept a new car if it had a few obvious but not fatal problems?

madandcrazytromboneguy
22.10.2007, 00:54
is there a set of errattas for next years pieces?

sounds like they will be heavily required going off some peoples comments

if theres a band who has the correct score and correct set of parts etc, then you'll enjoy this piece, have to say I wouldn't mind playin in next years 1st section!

Super Ph
22.10.2007, 22:31
If I bought a knackered old yellow thing from the 70s I would expect a few problems, yes. If it was brand new I wouldn't be surprised to find a few teething problems.

I suppose these people who rely on the areas recording for musical inspiration need the parts to be right to start with so they can write in the correct fingerings above all the notes.

Di B
22.10.2007, 23:41
If I bought a knackered old yellow thing from the 70s I would expect a few problems, yes. If it was brand new I wouldn't be surprised to find a few teething problems.

I suppose these people who rely on the areas recording for musical inspiration need the parts to be right to start with so they can write in the correct fingerings above all the notes.


Well, I would consider writing in the fingerings, but after the number of corrections I have already had to make to the part, there just isn't enough room left.

*removes tongue from cheek*

Anno Draconis
23.10.2007, 00:02
If I bought a knackered old yellow thing from the 70s I would expect a few problems, yes. If it was brand new I wouldn't be surprised to find a few teething problems.

Remind me to give you a call when my wife's Micra finally conks out.:rolleyes:

Bryan_sop
23.10.2007, 02:45
And that gives him the right to dictate how other bands in the same section should approach what to them could be the highlight of their contesting calendar?

I'd much rather hear a band who has rehearsed the piece to death play the piece well, than listen to a band who underestimated the piece and leave it too late to start their preparation, murder the piece on stage.

I have to disagree there, a band that has been rehearsing a piece for 6 months is going to be sick to the back teeth of it, and that will be reflected in their performance!

Personally, if our MD said we were going to work on our test piece for that long, I wouldn't turn up for rehearsals because I'd get bored with it!

I've not even seen/heard the test piece but I love Gilbert Vinter's work and I've heard that James Cook is a fantastic piece, so I'm looking forward to playing it (in a couple of months!)

tam-tam2
23.10.2007, 02:56
I have to disagree there, a band that has been rehearsing a piece for 6 months is going to be sick to the back teeth of it, and that will be reflected in their performance!

Personally, if our MD said we were going to work on our test piece for that long, I wouldn't turn up for rehearsals because I'd get bored with it!

I've not even seen/heard the test piece but I love Gilbert Vinter's work and I've heard that James Cook is a fantastic piece, so I'm looking forward to playing it (in a couple of months!)

Don't worry Brian, ther will be plenty for you to do!! I hope you are friendly with your solo euph!!

maestO_SO_musical
23.10.2007, 10:37
is there a set of errattas for next years pieces?

sounds like they will be heavily required going off some peoples comments

if theres a band who has the correct score and correct set of parts etc, then you'll enjoy this piece, have to say I wouldn't mind playin in next years 1st section!

It will definately be needed for 4 Cities Symphony

Chunky
23.10.2007, 11:42
It will definately be needed for 4 Cities Symphony

Thats helpful for those of us playing James Cook.

dyl
23.10.2007, 11:48
I have to disagree there, a band that has been rehearsing a piece for 6 months is going to be sick to the back teeth of it, and that will be reflected in their performance!
I did say "I'd much rather hear a band who has rehearsed the piece to death play the piece well, than listen to a band who underestimated the piece and leave it too late to start their preparation, murder the piece on stage."

but I guess people who don't bother turning up to rehearsals in case they get bored also run the risk of murdering the piece on stage?

Chunky
23.10.2007, 11:55
We now have JCC in our pads and I'm glad we have it. As its our first year in the 1st section we appreciate the challenges ahead of us.

In my opinion there is nothing wrong in having the piece available to rehearse as early as possible. There is no need to over cook it at this stage but keeping it played reguarly and keeping it fresh in peoples mind will do no harm at all.

tpcornet12
23.10.2007, 13:40
We now have JCC in our pads and I'm glad we have it. As its our first year in the 1st section we appreciate the challenges ahead of us.

In my opinion there is nothing wrong in having the piece available to rehearse as early as possible. There is no need to over cook it at this stage but keeping it played reguarly and keeping it fresh in peoples mind will do no harm at all.

Absolutely with you here chunky. We are like you having just been promoted. We have the music in our pads, and while we're not really rehearsing it - it has been good to give people an idea of what's in store for them after Christmas. We have also encouraged people to get a recording and hear a proper band play it... I opted for the Epic Brass CD.

For many of us the area is the most important day in the banding calendar and it deserves 110% effort.

Super Ph
27.10.2007, 19:00
Just a thought: if you were putting in 110% effort, does that include everyone having their parts nailed BEFORE the first rehearsal for the areas?

If yes, why on earth would you need to start rehearsing before Christmas?!!!

If no, maybe 110% effort isn't going to be enough, and your band needs to consider going for 120% effort.

WoodenFlugel
28.10.2007, 00:35
If no, maybe 110% effort isn't going to be enough, and your band needs to consider going for 120% effort.

Blimey, I'm glad I didn't have your maths teacher...;)

tpcornet12
28.10.2007, 10:02
Just a thought: if you were putting in 110% effort, does that include everyone having their parts nailed BEFORE the first rehearsal for the areas?

No, I'm quite sure the majority of players won't have the parts nailed before the 1st rehearsal. But having an early look just might mean the parts are nailed before the 9th March. I was responding to Chunky who has just been promoted like us. You have to accept that there will always be a different approach to a contest in a section you've just moved up to. Being realistic, our hope is to be placed "in the pack" to make sure we stay up there. Hopefully by being fully prepared we will escape the bottom 2 and remain a 1st section band.

ROBTHEDOG
28.10.2007, 11:31
Get Black Dyke's Epic Brass. There's other good stuff on there too


Again if you just want James Cook

Take a look at this download for £1.20 from old Chandos recording - Epic Brass Dyke with Parkes & Newsome (not sure of age of recording)

http://www.theclassicalshop.net/deta...er=CHAN%204508 (http://www.theclassicalshop.net/details06MP3.asp?CNumber=CHAN%204508)
http://www.theclassicalshop.net/HiRe...han%204508.jpg (http://www.theclassicalshop.net/HiResArt/chan%204508.jpg)

Maybe also worth listening to this old compilation -
http://www.4barsrest.com/shopping/cd_detail.asp?id=554

Thirteen Ball
29.10.2007, 14:47
Just a thought: if you were putting in 110% effort, does that include everyone having their parts nailed BEFORE the first rehearsal for the areas?

Not in my case.

Something to do with having other concerns in the mean time. (Rhyll, Malton, Butlins, christmas concert season etc....)

When we start on Areas work proper (After Butlins) then I'll have to have it nailed down, obviously.

At the moment, it's not a high priority in my 'to practice' list.

Although that could be cos I'm doing my best to avoid it 'til I really HAVE to look at the thing!

Will the Sec
29.10.2007, 20:49
Just a thought: if you were putting in 110% effort, does that include everyone having their parts nailed BEFORE the first rehearsal for the areas?

Yep.

If it's one I've played before and don't like, it gets nailed to the wall for darts practice.

Super Ph
30.10.2007, 21:31
I tried that but eventually it came down to a straight choice.

Turn pro at darts or do some cornet practice.

stevetrom
28.12.2007, 10:52
Just looked at our rehearsal schedule for 2008, work on James Cook starts on 7th Jan, 20 rehearsals (including sectionals), thats 40 hours, 2400 minutes, at approximately 12 minutes that is 200 complete run throughs - surely more than enough.

Gorgie boy
28.12.2007, 18:07
Just looked at our rehearsal schedule for 2008, work on James Cook starts on 7th Jan, 20 rehearsals (including sectionals), thats 40 hours, 2400 minutes, at approximately 12 minutes that is 200 complete run throughs - surely more than enough.

You need to remember to leave sufficient time for the conductor to have a rant, for rehearsals to start late for acts of God, for the percussion to set up (yawn) and for your bottom third cornet to leave the rehearsal every twenty minutes for a fag. After taking all these in to account, that should leave you with about 2 and a half hours rehearsal time before the areas!!!

towse1972
04.01.2008, 01:55
You need to remember to leave sufficient time for the conductor to have a rant........and for your bottom third cornet to leave the rehearsal every twenty minutes for a fag.
WHAT!!!!!!! Oh mi God! How rude....:sup

tam-tam2
04.01.2008, 16:17
You need to remember to leave sufficient time for the conductor to have a rant, for rehearsals to start late for acts of God, for the percussion to set up (yawn) and for your bottom third cornet to leave the rehearsal every twenty minutes for a fag. After taking all these in to account, that should leave you with about 2 and a half hours rehearsal time before the areas!!!


That's okay then, I am fairly sure that our bottom 3rd cornet is too young to smoke - that should give us some extra rehearsal time!!!

SuperCat
09.01.2008, 18:57
Absolutely correct John.

Vinters' output in the 1960's dragged brass band composition a little more into the 20th century with both his harmonic language and scoring.

Look at the test pieces from 1945/6/ to 1960.

Andi Cook is right in saying that it's all been done before,and better,if not in a brass band context - but that is the point.

Brass bands needed Vinter to give them a kick up the ****

Choosing a piece from the last thirty years won't of itself get you something "new".

If it's modern music you're after you're in the wrong movement.

Hi Sandy,
It's Billy R using Michelle's password,
Happy new year to you and Kath, i hope you are both well, it's funny reading some of the rubbish that gets put on here.
It got me thinking about Dad now that he has passed away, he said," never mind all that rubbish that you try to play, when you have mastered the Arban from front to back, you will be able to play anything"
I never did, makes me think now he has gone, i should come out of retirement and master it to prove him right!
On the subject of Andi's comments, without disrespect to anyone, i think people should keep their opinions about anyone's music until they can play everything within their part PERFECTLY under ANY situation!
Certainly, i love it when band's think things are too easy, it makes them vulnerable, just like the fighter facing the short skinny person!
As we know, and i am speaking for both of us if you dont mind? We have both played the horn at the pinnacle of banding, and in fact, you were the one i aspired to be better than! We have NEVER underestimated ANYTHING, if it's good enough for us, and the majority of the finest players worldwide, neither should anyone!

I hope i have not offended Andi, it was never my intention, just to state some facts.

One last thing Sandy, i am gathering some dates for a memorial concert for dad, if you are free, would you please play on the end?
E mail me at w.rushworth@tiscali.co.uk

Cheers,
Billy R.

SuperCat
09.01.2008, 19:17
[quote=Thirteen Ball;555959]You're not alone JR. We ran it through last night - which pretty well confirmed what I already thought.
We spent half last night's rehearsals just ironing these out. Not always easy getting an errata sheet for something this old either.



Sorry, one other thing, this quote relates to last year when i was still at co-op, unless my memory is as bad as my mother's, we NEVER took it to pieces.
When i first pull a piece out, i basically run it so people know what i expect of them, i certainly do not go into great detail until the New Year.

Billy R.

MR WMS
12.01.2008, 22:48
Has anyone recently purchased a copy of the Circumnavigator?

I have just looked at the Score and found that it has been bound back to front (ie the last page of the piece is the first page and the last page is the first page)

would have been ideal for one of J Cook's return journeys then:oops:

SteveT
14.01.2008, 00:25
I have observed alot of comment over the last few years on both the mouthpiece and other similarly focused websites. The more I see the more I dispair! When I was learning to play properly, I used my ears... I kept quite! I learnt from the musicians around me. At the age of 13 I joined a Top Section Band and went thru a progression of Ball, Vinter, Arnold, Gregson, Sparke ... et al! At the age of 15 I was pricipal trombone... I was still listening and was very cautious in my opinions. What I discovered was that music was interesting... it was multi faceted... it was a challenge. What i have never done is to pick favourites and be closed to exploring another approach from another composer!

What I am looking forward to is hearing how Gilbert Vinter (sic) sounds like with a modern bigger sounding band in the 21st century! I believe that there are many colours and symphonic complexities to explore!!

I agree with alot of what has been said by lots of people, particular Tabby, Sandy and Billy. However, please rejoice in the colours that Vinter creates and realise what justice this ENGLISH composer did for a BRITISH cultural phenomenon... THe BRASS BAND!

While adjudicating whit friday once, an American visitor asked me "Stephen... how would you describe the sound of the British Brass Band"! (Because he had been moved to tears by it) I said... "I believe it to be the sound of the soul of the British working man"!! Who in the 19th / 20th century saught refuge in the art of music to help him sustain the relentless grind of hard physical work and personal hardship. We have taken that sound to a previously undreamt of level of quality!

The question is always... will the whingers be able to play it!?" They might try, but with the oportunity in front of them... how many will manage to raise the music to a previously unattained level? For this is the measure of a great band!

We shall see!

Will the Sec
14.01.2008, 00:48
Current error count in score and parts is over 240.

Very poor.:mad:

MR WMS
14.01.2008, 20:12
Current error count in score and parts is over 240.

Very poor.:mad:


Having done the error count are you now going to start rehearsing the music?

Will the Sec
15.01.2008, 13:23
Nope. Still playing The Plantaganets at the moment.

Plus, I played JCC at Pontins in 1982, so I know the part already. :rolleyes:

MR WMS
15.01.2008, 19:29
Nope. Still playing The Plantaganets at the moment.

Plus, I played JCC at Pontins in 1982, so I know the part already. :rolleyes:

You wait 25 years to tell us about an important error count? Shame on you.

WoodenFlugel
22.01.2008, 14:20
Current error count in score and parts is over 240.

Very poor.:mad:

I thought Will was exaggerating slightly until last week when we started to do some light work on this. We have the original parts from the 60's and we've already found a whole host of errors in the first two sections alone. The flugel part is totally wrong in one bar. Add to this missing / inconsistent dynamic markings, poorly placed triplet brackets that make reading the rhythms confusing at first, meant that we spend half of our rehearsal time sorting out the errors. Its almost as bad as some of the modern pieces we've had recently!

I asked one of the guys on the trade stands this weekend if the new parts (price £50) had had the errors taken out. All I got as an answer was a whithering look ;)

Will the Sec
22.01.2008, 21:49
You wait 25 years to tell us about an important error count? Shame on you.

One thing I did remember from 1981 (I'm old, and can't always remember dates...) - and this is really important in saving the sanity of the players and MDs - THERE IS NO BAR 69!

One thing I didn't remember was that the 7/2 is crotchet equals crotchet from the 7/4, and when I did twig this last night, the conductor's rueful "play it again" comment made sense..... (And I'd practised it at the higher tempo too!!!)

Gorgie boy
23.01.2008, 11:04
One thing I did remember from 1981 (I'm old, and can't always remember dates...) - and this is really important in saving the sanity of the players and MDs - THERE IS NO BAR 69!

One thing I didn't remember was that the 7/2 is crotchet equals crotchet from the 7/4, and when I did twig this last night, the conductor's rueful "play it again" comment made sense..... (And I'd practised it at the higher tempo too!!!)

Spooky! vinter wrote it in 1969 - do you think he was having a bit of a laugh? - or will we get an announcement from the selection panel that due to the missing bar 69 all parts will be re-issued with the correct numbering...........

Or should we all agree to have a completely silent bar when we come to play it at the contest................

smaca
23.01.2008, 12:59
Is there an errata sheet?

We are right into the detail at the moment, and without exaggerating, there is hardly a bar passes without a mistake or disconnect between parts and score.

Most sectional rehearsals are spent penciling in corrections, with very little playing.Sometimes these adjustments are judgement calls, which is never the best policy.

stevetrom
23.01.2008, 19:23
Most sectional rehearsals are spent penciling in corrections, with very little playing

sounds like a good idea !

I'm not a great fan of sectionals, do they really help?

2 hours in a room with the MD and 3 trombones - half of the time i (bass trom) am playing with the basses anyway so my breathing patterns don't work so what is really gained?

smaca
23.01.2008, 20:51
sounds like a good idea !

I'm not a great fan of sectionals, do they really help?

2 hours in a room with the MD and 3 trombones - half of the time i (bass trom) am playing with the basses anyway so my breathing patterns don't work so what is really gained?

Certainly helped the band I play for a lot last year. 15 trophies, and last contest we won by 5 points:clap:

Our sectionals are not always traditional(like 3 troms that you mentioned), but sometimes involve sections or groups of players in relation to the score(e.g, in your case you would join the Bass sectional). I even had one last year that was me on cornet, Sop, Flugel, Horn and 1st Bari as there was a section in the piece that we were all playing similar notes,styles, phrasing and handing melody over to each other. It certainly helped when it came to contest day.:wink:

However,I agree if sectionals are arranged to just tick a box and say sectionals were done, then there sometimes can be little value.

Matthew
24.01.2008, 20:03
Never played this, can anyone comment on what the bass parts are like? :)

STUART HAIGH
24.01.2008, 21:00
Never played this, can anyone comment on what the bass parts are like? :)
Not much in it for BB Bass, nice tune for euphonium, Bass parts a bit tame compared to other Vinter test pieces.:tup

Will the Sec
24.01.2008, 21:46
There's plenty in it for the Bb Bass. What's them fings that are quicker than quavers? There's lots of them......

WoodenFlugel
25.01.2008, 01:09
...more problems with the flugel part.

Bar 131-134 on the flugel part has the flugel playing basically the front row line, but the score shows it as covering the (totally different) horn line. Which is right?

I know we can get quite anally retentive about missing accents and dynamics, but a completely different part? (just for the record bar 68 is the same)

I've played plenty of Vinter's stuff in the past and its been generally OK. Could all these glaring errors have something to do with the fact he was dead by the time this was published I wonder?

Great piece. Pants parts.

How many times have I said that over the last few years? :rolleyes:

Shell
25.01.2008, 03:32
There's plenty in it for the Bb Bass. What's them fings that are quicker than quavers? There's lots of them......


LOL, that made me giggle, but then ...what doesn't?!
I'm looking forward to getting stuck into this (I think!)

2nd trom virtuoso
25.01.2008, 11:18
We've picked up so many errors whilst rehearsing this piece, it really is poor. We've requested an entirely new set of music to be sent

Never seen anything like it, how on earth do they expect people to adjudicate this?

Don't get me wrong, great piece of music.. but this is a dissapointment

WoodenFlugel
25.01.2008, 11:31
We've picked up so many errors whilst rehearsing this piece, it really is poor. We've requested an entirely new set of music to be sent


Please let us know what the new parts are like, but I'd be very surprised, no, make that totally amazed if they aren't filled with exactly the same errors as your existing parts.

Ipswich trom
25.01.2008, 11:54
I wouldn't hold your breath, the new parts are just a reprint of the old ones!!! The same discrepancies are all still there.

simonbassbone
25.01.2008, 11:55
LOL, that made me giggle, but then ...what doesn't?!
I'm looking forward to getting stuck into this (I think!)

Good luck, but don't bother taking a pencil to rehearsal. A bottle of tipex and a photocopier are more use!:frown:

CJBaggins
25.01.2008, 12:48
Never seen anything like it, how on earth do they expect people to adjudicate this?



Exactly, i could but wrong, but are some bands going end up being 'penalised' for issues that aren't necessarily down poor technical playing, or the musical interpretation but down to the sheer awfulness of the copies and the ambiguity especially with the dynamic markings/effects, that the band has had to make a call on, but the adjudicators have interpreted it differently? I know some of the errors are quite obvious but theres some that could be interpreted in lots of ways, how can this be adjudicated?

i'm sorry if i'm being melodramatic, i just think that surely this should have been considered by the people who choose these pieces, they do have nearly all year after all to make an educated choice, and therefore something done to fix this!! For a contest like the area, its a bit of a disappointment, and frustrating at times!

anyway, i'm probably wrong just thought i'd have a small rant!;)

Thirteen Ball
25.01.2008, 13:59
anyway, i'm probably wrong just thought i'd have a small rant!;)


I don't think you're wrong at all. I think it's an important point.

And just try getting an errata sheet for it!

JR
25.01.2008, 14:07
I don't think you're wrong at all. I think it's an important point.

And just try getting an errata sheet for it!

eeee Andi, Lad - makes you wonder how Stan Boddington (1971) and Roy Newsome (1974) made it sound so well doesn't it??!!

john R

Anno Draconis
25.01.2008, 14:45
eeee Andi, Lad - makes you wonder how Stan Boddington (1971) and Roy Newsome (1974) made it sound so well doesn't it??!!

john R

Roy Newsome was asked about this at a recent conductor's workshop. He said that they always had this problem, that they had to work through the mistakes in rehearsal, but rather than bring them to everyone's attention they used to keep schtum and hope all the other bands played it with the mistakes in :eek:

The point is not that MDs and bands can't sort out most of the errors in rehearsal just as they always did, it's that having spent half a ton on buying the music they shouldn't have to. :mad:

WoodenFlugel
25.01.2008, 15:16
I dunno, I quite like the option of two flugel parts - what's written on he part and what's written on the score. At least then I can pick to play the one with the fewest notes in it...:rolleyes:

Roger Thorne
25.01.2008, 23:42
Exactly, i could but wrong, but are some bands going end up being 'penalised' for issues that aren't necessarily down poor technical playing, or the musical interpretation but down to the sheer awfulness of the copies and the ambiguity especially with the dynamic markings/effects, that the band has had to make a call on, but the adjudicators have interpreted it differently? I know some of the errors are quite obvious but theres some that could be interpreted in lots of ways, how can this be adjudicated?

The same as it's always been - by playing exactly what's written on the score.

;)

Kerwintootle
26.01.2008, 11:55
I've finally read all eleven pages of this discussion. Phew!

Several times people have asked if there is an errata sheet for JCC but there seems to be no answer. So, is there one?

I could be wrong but do I recall that tmp had a hand in collating an errata sheet for a piece a couple of years ago (can't remember which one) and then it was announced on 4br.

Can we do this again?

Alex

paddo
26.01.2008, 18:45
sorry guys and gals! I know this is not relevant but this is fo JR!!

your mail box is full, the number you wanted the other night is

!!!!!!

emrty your mailbox please!!

Paddo

smaca
26.01.2008, 20:37
I've finally read all eleven pages of this discussion. Phew!

Several times people have asked if there is an errata sheet for JCC but there seems to be no answer. So, is there one?

I could be wrong but do I recall that tmp had a hand in collating an errata sheet for a piece a couple of years ago (can't remember which one) and then it was announced on 4br.

Can we do this again?

Alex

Alex, great idea and makes sense.:clap: Anyone involved the last time advise best approach? Can us mouthpiecers solve the problem? Is there an official line on the errata sheet?

Roger Thorne
26.01.2008, 21:51
Several times people have asked if there is an errata sheet for JCC but there seems to be no answer. So, is there one?

I could be wrong but do I recall that tmp had a hand in collating an errata sheet for a piece a couple of years ago (can't remember which one) and then it was announced on 4br.

Can we do this again?


Although we would encourage people to post and share their findings regarding errors and ommisions, (if they feel they want to share this information) we must point out that in no circumstances could the information collated on tMP be classed as an 'Official Errata'. This can only be supplied by the publisher. If tMP receive any information regarding an official errata we will publish the details immediately.

My own personal feeling on this issue is that an errata will not be issued, as the piece has been used many times before without too many problems. If an official errata is not forthcoming from the pubishers, I would suggest that bands follow the instructions contained within the score. The same score the adjudicators will be using on the day.



;)

Will the Sec
27.01.2008, 00:04
Except that there appears to be more than one version of the score in issue, so how do we know which the adjudicator will be using.....

cookie2
27.01.2008, 00:10
Ian, have you managed to find out what the flug should play in bars 131-134? Have just read this thread and panicked, would love to know what I'm meant to be doing! ;)

Roger Thorne
27.01.2008, 01:05
Except that there appears to be more than one version of the score in issue, so how do we know which the adjudicator will be using.....

Do you (or does anyone else) actually possess two scores of this piece which are different?

Having read this thread again (and this is the only source of information I have) I can't see any mention of there being different scores, only reference to the parts being different from the score. It seems to me the publishers have simply photocopied the original score and parts which unfortunately still contain the original errors.


;)

Will the Sec
27.01.2008, 02:28
It was in 1981 that I last played JCC, and the conductor's personal copy (as opposed to that owned by the then Newham band) had marked differences. Don't know what or where, but there was much discussion about the editing and whether Vinter ever saw the final version sent to press, and whether this was a factor.

Shell
27.01.2008, 14:05
I would imagine the adjudicators would have obtained their copy from the same publishers, so any band that has had to purchase it recently should be fine.
If the score was already in your band library, have a look through the errors etc posted on here and see if they match up...??
If so...no problemo!

ruthhaasbb
27.01.2008, 19:31
Absolutly love playing this piece but still working on building up my stamina (play 2nd Cornet)

BassBlaster
27.01.2008, 20:50
We had a three hour rehearsal tonight (Sunday), I found it isn`t the errors in the score that will effect the results, it is the music.
It is not an easy piece to balance the whole band and at one point I thought the basses were overpowering, until our conductor worked his magic and lo, the cornets and horns were balanced, all of a sudden the band sounded like it was playing what Vinter wanted.
He was a clever composer, underestimate the piece at our peril.

rachael
27.01.2008, 22:15
Having had our confirmation of entry back from our Association. (West of England) I quote " Please note that any test-piece errata details which appear on the various websites ect are to be ignored-all errata details will be issued by Kapitol Promotions and mailed to the bands involved by the Regional Secretary"
So if we all play the same mistakes as written we will be fine!! ;0)

Shell
27.01.2008, 22:20
-all errata details will be issued by Kapitol Promotions and mailed to the bands involved by the Regional Secretary"
;0)
:clap: :clap: :clap:

WoodenFlugel
27.01.2008, 23:28
Ian, have you managed to find out what the flug should play in bars 131-134? Have just read this thread and panicked, would love to know what I'm meant to be doing! ;)

I'm going to play what's on the score not the flugel part, which is basically the same as the solo horn.

brassneck
28.01.2008, 00:20
I'm just back from having a blow with a band on James Cook and was surprised with the number of missing dynamics and misplaced hairpins. I've contested and won with it years ago at the Scottish Miners and maybe it was just one of these things that you "corrected" errors with the conductor when found! One thing that I remember affecting the quality of sound from bands playing it on stage is seat positions. Should be interesting seeing (and listening to) what bands decide on the day!

brassneck
28.01.2008, 09:12
(I should maybe have made myself a lttle clearer ... by 'seat positions' I really meant the positioning of the band on stage!)

Accidental
28.01.2008, 14:04
I guess its safest to go with the score as that's what the adjudicators will be looking at...... but does anyone know if an errata sheet actually exists?!

I've just emailed Kapitol to see if they can shed any light on the subject - there's a section for publishers errata on their webiste, but its completely empty! :rolleyes:

Laserbeam bass
29.01.2008, 02:21
One thing I did remember from 1981 (I'm old, and can't always remember dates...) - and this is really important in saving the sanity of the players and MDs - THERE IS NO BAR 69!

There is obviously an unfamily (sic) friendly gag waiting in the wings, but due to certain restrictions on this website, most of you will need to use some imagination ;)


One thing I didn't remember was that the 7/2 is crotchet equals crotchet from the 7/4, and when I did twig this last night, the conductor's rueful "play it again" comment made sense..... (And I'd practised it at the higher tempo too!!!)

remind me never to follow you in 7/2 bars again :tongue:

(PS why does an English spelling of the word "Practise" (verb) always come up on a spell check with an Americanisation, (and this word with a "Z") "Practice" (Noun)( Do I win the prize for the most parenthesis in one post ever?))

As to Errata sheets for pieces written prior to 2000, I tell the jokes. If you are to play as the score is set out, then surely the parts need to be fully rewritten. If they aren't, what hope has anyone got of "playing the right notes, in the right order, to Misquote and paraphrase Eric Morecambe (Morecambe spell checks as Precambrian LMAO (AOL LOL)zzzzzzzzzzzzzz).

Red Elvis
29.01.2008, 14:41
We had the same debate last night ! Amongst the highlights were yours truly coming in two bars too early with the Eb bass entry in the fugue section ! In my defence my part had only one bars rest printed !

Ipswich trom
29.01.2008, 19:28
We had the same debate last night ! Amongst the highlights were yours truly coming in two bars too early with the Eb bass entry in the fugue section ! In my defence my part had only one bars rest printed !

But it did happen twice before you realised lol!

Belfast Barman
31.01.2008, 04:18
Just as an aside to the errata posts, can I just make BBb players aware of a slight notage whoopsie! Bar 52, last quaver should be a D and not E as per the music. Also, the last time I played this piece was probably about 8-9 years ago, being hauled kicking and screaming (not really) back into contesting, my copy still has my original childlike scrawlings on it!


Andy - 31 days left to be able to fit into a waistcoat!!!

brass journo
31.01.2008, 22:59
Andy - 31 days left to be able to fit into a waistcoat!!!


you are reprieved - no waistcoats - just black shirts for you!!!!
xxx

Belfast Barman
01.02.2008, 03:34
Oh God, do I need to buy one of those now!!!!


Andy

leisa
01.02.2008, 10:01
The piece is growing on me a little bit now (not too much though) Am looking forward to areas though :-D

Thirteen Ball
01.02.2008, 13:43
...my copy still has my original childlike scrawlings on it!

I thought I recognised your lyrical style of prose. Lines like "Count, Muppet!" often serve to focus the mind very nicely. ;)

(I dread to think what anyone who picks up the parts I've used for test pieces past will think, some of the stuff I've written on them.... :oops:

tuba1974
01.02.2008, 15:21
I like the music its great, Only played it once, went well, its all down to the slow bit in the middle for me.

johnmartin
01.02.2008, 16:12
With all these errata being mentioned here hasn't anyone else noticed that the Eb Bass part has several bars where it looks like the euphonium part has been printed instead. :)

Gorgie boy
01.02.2008, 17:34
With all these errata being mentioned here hasn't anyone else noticed that the Eb Bass part has several bars where it looks like the euphonium part has been printed instead. :)

Why don't you try turning it upside down - oh yeah, you've done that already.....:biggrin::biggrin:

robcav
02.02.2008, 01:26
Just as an aside to the errata posts, can I just make BBb players aware of a slight notage whoopsie! Bar 52, last quaver should be a D and not E as per the music. Also, the last time I played this piece was probably about 8-9 years ago, being hauled kicking and screaming (not really) back into contesting, my copy still has my original childlike scrawlings on it!


Andy - 31 days left to be able to fit into a waistcoat!!!

So you have played it before then! Phil said you had. I've got a black shirt you can have. 17 inch collar? Suspect that might be a shade undersize bu the offer's there.
Cheers Mate

GJG
02.02.2008, 02:11
One thing I did remember from 1981 (I'm old, and can't always remember dates...) - and this is really important in saving the sanity of the players and MDs - THERE IS NO BAR 69!


I'm confused by this; we rehearsed this section tonight, and we definitely do have a bar 69, in both score and parts. (ie. there are 10 bars between 60 & 70)

What am I misunderstanding here ... ?

johnmartin
02.02.2008, 02:25
I'm confused by this; we rehearsed this section tonight, and we definitely do have a bar 69, in both score and parts. (ie. there are 10 bars between 60 & 70)

What am I misunderstanding here ... ?Ah, but "between bars 60 and 70" inclusive of both mentioned bars should be a total of 11 bars, not 10.

Confused, you will be... :)

Belfast Barman
02.02.2008, 03:33
So you have played it before then! Phil said you had. I've got a black shirt you can have. 17 inch collar? Suspect that might be a shade undersize bu the offer's there.
Cheers Mate


I may just have to take you up on that offer Rob, as long as we can play open-necked......
By the way, I have played every test piece, EVER lol ;)

And not very good in soooooooooooooo many!

Andy

Belfast Barman
02.02.2008, 03:37
I honestly can't remember playing it, although it will all come flooding back in a wave of elation / sickness - dependant on how I felt!

I must have played it, but when you play Montage , Jazz, St Magnus, everything just falls by the wayside...... hopefully.



Andy - what have I agreed to????!!!

Belfast Barman
02.02.2008, 03:38
Although I used to greet every test piece with the very same feeling - oh my God, I can't play this, get someone else in, etc!



Andy

Will the Sec
02.02.2008, 11:00
I'm confused by this; we rehearsed this section tonight, and we definitely do have a bar 69, in both score and parts. (ie. there are 10 bars between 60 & 70)

What am I misunderstanding here ... ?

Are you counting a split 7/4 bar as two bars? That's what the editor(s) did, after all!

GJG
02.02.2008, 11:08
Are you counting a split 7/4 bar as two bars? That's what the editor(s) did, after all!

No; As far as I can see the bar numbering is correct.

Will the Sec
02.02.2008, 15:54
Curious. 7/4 starts at 42; Basses' syncopated pattern starts with the pick up into 51; 7/2 starts at 60; Molto Marcato 7/4 starts at 63; 4/4 at 67, allargando at 68. Does this match your score?

GJG
02.02.2008, 16:29
Curious. 7/4 starts at 42; Basses' syncopated pattern starts with the pick up into 51; 7/2 starts at 60; Molto Marcato 7/4 starts at 63; 4/4 at 67, allargando at 68. Does this match your score?

Can't say at the moment; unfortunately I absentmindedly left my briefcase at the bandhall last night. I will look on Monday.

Belfast Barman
03.02.2008, 15:10
Tut tut Gareth, it's little mistakes like that.................. :D



Andy

Bass Trumpet
03.02.2008, 15:18
Can't say at the moment; unfortunately I absentmindedly left my briefcase at the bandhall last night. I will look on Monday.

Nothing to do with the very inviting bar you have in the band room at all....:guiness

Belfast Barman
03.02.2008, 18:01
Nothing to do with the very inviting bar you have in the band room at all....:guiness



hee hee hee hee

Owen
03.02.2008, 18:58
just got my part here, so can't speak for the score or any other parts, but at bar 60 I have three bars of 7/2, followed by four bars of 7/4 then two bars of 4/4. Nine bars in total...

So the following is true for the 1st baritone part at least:
60 7/2
61 7/2
62 7/2
63 7/4
64 7/4
65 7/4
66 7/4
67 4/4
68 4/4
69 ????
70 Bar before the "a tempo", four before the double bar key change

By my reckoning, this means that there is a bar missing. If you are going to count from bar 60, don't forget that you have to count bar 60 as zero. This is where it is more useful having letters as rehearsal marks; two after G, for example is obvious, but two after 60 is, of course, bar 61 and not bar 62.

Accidental
03.02.2008, 19:03
I don't think its a missing bar, just a missing bar number. If there was an actual bar missing there's be a weird gap in the music, and there isn't (not on the bari part anyway)

Owen
03.02.2008, 19:22
well - yes you are right, there is not a jump as such; strictly speaking from bar 70 onwards all the bar numbers are incorrect. That would be a better way of describing the issue.

Belfast Barman
03.02.2008, 21:34
Just noticed another one for BBb - bar 35 appears to have 9 quavers for gods sake!
Someone want to help me out on that one?


Andy

Ipswich trom
03.02.2008, 22:28
Just noticed another one for BBb - bar 35 appears to have 9 quavers for gods sake!
Someone want to help me out on that one?


Andy

Do you mean bar 114? That shows 9 quavers but there is an extra quaver rest marked before the final crotchet rest. You alternate notes with the Eb bass. Here's another one for you though, the notes in that bar on your part are marked tenuto but on the score they are staccato!

I have just been through our entire set of parts cross checking against the score and marking up the parts. In some cases it isn't that straight forward though as often all the cornets for example have something marked on all the parts which is not on the score.

I have a wonderful excel spreadsheet which goes bar by bar and shows all parts with detaisl of the errors/discrepancies.
If I could do that in a day, why can't the publisher that is charging over £60 for the music. maybe someone from the organising committee should have done it too?

My spreadsheet is for sale if anyone is interested. :biggrin:

Will the Sec
03.02.2008, 22:53
I'm sure you'd be in breach of the copyright police........

Perhaps we can threaten the publishers with the Sale of Goods Act?

Ipswich trom
03.02.2008, 22:58
I'm sure you'd be in breach of the copyright police........

Perhaps we can threaten the publishers with the Sale of Goods Act?

That would be interesting but I actually think that all 1st Section bands (nationwide) should withdraw from the contest in protest at the ridiculous farce that is James Cook. I'm surprised they didn't spell that wrong!

brassneck
04.02.2008, 00:54
How are bands dealing with the sextuplets? I always thought (contrary to some of the recordings I've heard) that they are in twos period, not using triplets in some sections and duplets in others. I'm just curious!

Belfast Barman
04.02.2008, 02:14
Do you mean bar 114? That shows 9 quavers but there is an extra quaver rest marked before the final crotchet rest. You alternate notes with the Eb bass. Here's another one for you though, the notes in that bar on your part are marked tenuto but on the score they are staccato!



I'm confused enough already without you adding to it!!!!! ;)


Andy

Gorgie boy
04.02.2008, 10:58
How are bands dealing with the sextuplets? I always thought (contrary to some of the recordings I've heard) that they are in twos period, not using triplets in some sections and duplets in others. I'm just curious!


I'm thinking some are threes and some are twos. Don't have my score to hand at present so can't offer examples. A purist might say that they are neither twos or threes but all sixes of course.................

JR
04.02.2008, 11:33
just got my part here, so can't speak for the score or any other parts, but at bar 60 I have three bars of 7/2, followed by four bars of 7/4 then two bars of 4/4. Nine bars in total...

So the following is true for the 1st baritone part at least:
60 7/2
61 7/2
62 7/2
63 7/4
64 7/4
65 7/4
66 7/4
67 4/4
68 4/4
69 ????
70 Bar before the "a tempo", four before the double bar key change

By my reckoning, this means that there is a bar missing. If you are going to count from bar 60, don't forget that you have to count bar 60 as zero. This is where it is more useful having letters as rehearsal marks; two after G, for example is obvious, but two after 60 is, of course, bar 61 and not bar 62.

...blimey

JR

Gorgie boy
04.02.2008, 11:44
just got my part here, so can't speak for the score or any other parts, but at bar 60 I have three bars of 7/2, followed by four bars of 7/4 then two bars of 4/4. Nine bars in total...

So the following is true for the 1st baritone part at least:
60 7/2
61 7/2
62 7/2
63 7/4
64 7/4
65 7/4
66 7/4
67 4/4
68 4/4
69 ????
70 Bar before the "a tempo", four before the double bar key change

By my reckoning, this means that there is a bar missing. If you are going to count from bar 60, don't forget that you have to count bar 60 as zero. This is where it is more useful having letters as rehearsal marks; two after G, for example is obvious, but two after 60 is, of course, bar 61 and not bar 62.

Would have thought that whatever the occasion, 2 after 60 is still 62.......................

Owen
04.02.2008, 11:58
You would think, wouldn't you? But a lot depends on how people count the bars. If you said "go from two after 60" many people would start in bar 61, as that would be the second printed bar after 60 had appeared on their parts. I can state quite honestly that I have been in rehearsals with experienced and competent musicians where this has caused confusion.

Anyway - back to James Cook...

Owen S
04.02.2008, 12:29
Having had our confirmation of entry back from our Association. (West of England) I quote " Please note that any test-piece errata details which appear on the various websites ect are to be ignored-all errata details will be issued by Kapitol Promotions and mailed to the bands involved by the Regional Secretary"
So if we all play the same mistakes as written we will be fine!! ;0)
I wonder how much it will cost them to create the errata? Are they asking bands to send in their error lists, or are they trying to locate all errors themselves?

Ipswich trom
04.02.2008, 12:59
I wonder how much it will cost them to create the errata? Are they asking bands to send in their error lists, or are they trying to locate all errors themselves?

It took me about 8 hours to go through all parts cross checking with the score and either correcting things or highlighting them (see my earlier post). However, there are a number of things which are not on the score but are on for example all cornet parts. How do we know what is correct?
The whole piece needs editing by someone and all the discrepancies correcting, the piece could then be reprinted. It may end up not being exactly as Vinter intended but how will we ever know that anyway. If I can do this for my band, surely someone on the contesting committee could have organised to get the piece sorted out.

GJG
04.02.2008, 13:06
If you read the relevant section on the Kapitol website (which, incidentally does not appear to have been updated since sometime in 2006) it actually says "Publisher's errata". In other words, Kapitol themselves will make no effort to collate/validate alleged errors, they will simply provide access to official Errata released by the publishers themselves. Since publishers in general can only confirm alleged errors by referring them back to the composer, I don't think anyone should be holding their breath waiting for an Errata list for "JC - Circumcisor"

We're on our own, as usual, I'm afraid.

Ipswich trom
04.02.2008, 13:17
Interestinghly, one of our percussionists works for the publisher!!!!! She now has the list I compiled so you never know!

stevetrom
04.02.2008, 14:20
Interestinghly, one of our percussionists works for the publisher!!!!! She now has the list I compiled so you never know!

so where have you posted it ?

come on share and share alike :D

brassneck
04.02.2008, 21:50
I'm thinking some are threes and some are twos. Don't have my score to hand at present so can't offer examples. A purist might say that they are neither twos or threes but all sixes of course.................

- of course! ;) When played in sixes, the piece takes on a different impression. It might be in common time when they occur but the melodic line is in triplet form suggesting sub-division of twos. It's just a quibble I have ... :oops:

Accidental
05.02.2008, 11:38
Nothing official yet, but I heard last night that the error count actually goes over 500 and a new set of parts is being issued - hopefully we'll all hear something in the next few days.

And Owen, I checked my 1st bari part last night and there's definitely a bar 69. Maybe you didn't count the whole and split bars properly? No offence, but maths doesn't seem to be your strong point! ;)

Ipswich trom
05.02.2008, 11:45
Nothing official yet, but I heard last night that the error count actually goes over 500 and a new set of parts is being issued - hopefully we'll all hear something in the next few days.

And Owen, I checked my 1st bari part last night and there's definitely a bar 69. Maybe you didn't count the whole and split bars properly? No offence, but maths doesn't seem to be your strong point! ;)

Where did you hear that? I heard there may be an errata (if someone has time to do it all without missing anything). We had a new set of this because of missing parts etc but the new set is really just a reprint, with all the errors!

Definitely no bar 69 though.

johnmartin
05.02.2008, 11:47
Nothing official yet, but I heard last night that the error count actually goes over 500 and a new set of parts is being issued - hopefully we'll all hear something in the next few days.
No doubt the new set of parts will be issued at the end of March. :)

Kidding aside, given that bands have been practising with their current set of parts for some time now and scribbling all over them, do you think it is fair for a completely new set to be issued now.

Mind you, if any new set removes those bars of the euphonium part from the Eb bass then I'll be first in the queue. :)

stevetrom
05.02.2008, 11:48
Nothing official yet, but I heard last night that the error count actually goes over 500 and a new set of parts is being issued - hopefully we'll all hear something in the next few days.


mmmm

When was the last time a set of parts was re-issued (free of charge I am sure:-? ) ?

Our set is 20+ years old, we no longer have any proof of purchase, will we get a free set of parts?

I won't hold my breath :D

Accidental
05.02.2008, 11:52
Kidding aside, given that bands have been practising with their current set of parts for some time now and scribbling all over them, do you think it is fair for a completely new set to be issued now.You can't have it both ways!!
This thread has pages and pages of people moaning about the errors..... if there's an opportunity to get hold of a cleansed set of parts, with weeks left until the contest, how can that possibly be a bad thing? :-?

Gorgie boy
05.02.2008, 11:59
- of course! ;) When played in sixes, the piece takes on a different impression. It might be in common time when they occur but the melodic line is in triplet form suggesting sub-division of twos. It's just a quibble I have ... :oops:

Does change from bar to bar. I tend to listen for the predominant 'feel' to each bar in order to help players identify what are threes and what are twos. Had a bang to the head a few weeks ago and wondered whether bar 8 through to about bar 40 or so should be re-written in 12/8. Didn't do it though.

WoodenFlugel
05.02.2008, 12:00
At least "they" seem to be admitting the errors, but as JC:C has been on print now for nearly 40 years and the announcement that it was the piece for the regionals was made 5 months ago (and they would've actually picked it some time before that), it does seem to be a case of closing the stable door after the horse has bolted, died, and been made into glue!

Gorgie boy
05.02.2008, 12:00
Nothing official yet, but I heard last night that the error count actually goes over 500 and a new set of parts is being issued - hopefully we'll all hear something in the next few days.

And Owen, I checked my 1st bari part last night and there's definitely a bar 69. Maybe you didn't count the whole and split bars properly? No offence, but maths doesn't seem to be your strong point! ;)

Can't see it myself (bar 69 or getting a new set of parts!!!).

johnmartin
05.02.2008, 12:20
You can't have it both ways!!
This thread has pages and pages of people moaning about the errors..... if there's an opportunity to get hold of a cleansed set of parts, with weeks left until the contest, how can that possibly be a bad thing? :-?Well, I've never moaned about it or called for a new set of parts. We're playing our old 1970's vintage set and the band have enough problems with the piece without worrying about errors in parts. The cynic in me just doesn't believe that it will happen, or at least happen with enough time to make a difference. Didn't a similar thing happen a few years back with another lower section test piece. I'm sure brassneck will confirm, or otherwise. :)

ignore me
05.02.2008, 13:00
Most of the misprints seem quite obvious don't they?

Best one on my Euph part is bar 8 where the tempo change isn't marked - that was fun the first time through!

Incidentally John, I've played a few lower section test pieces in he last few years where new parts were rumoured (Images of the Millenium, Gothic Dances) but neither happened - although I do remember new parts being issued before the nationals one year, maybe about 2000??? Can't remember the piece though.

johnmartin
05.02.2008, 13:44
Incidentally John, I've played a few lower section test pieces in he last few years where new parts were rumoured (Images of the Millenium, Gothic Dances) but neither happened - although I do remember new parts being issued before the nationals one year, maybe about 2000??? Can't remember the piece though.

It was either "Images of the Millenium" or "Ballet From The Perfect Fool" I was thinking about.

WoodenFlugel
05.02.2008, 13:47
The score for Images of the Millennium was re-issued after it was found to be full of errors. Which was nice, except that the re-issued score still had errors in it. :rolleyes:

Apparently this year's second section piece is the same - a re-issued score, plus a further errata but even then (according to a mate who is conducting a 2nd section band) its still not a complete list of the errors.

So to my knowledge in the last three years the lower sections have had three pieces containing significant errors. But it is only the "lower sections" so it doesn't matter does it? :rolleyes:

winterman
05.02.2008, 16:28
It was either "Images of the Millenium" or "Ballet From The Perfect Fool" I was thinking about.

2004 Nationals had King of Elflands Daughter parts re-issued as did 2006 - Ballet from the Perfect Idiot (but not a full set, it was mainly horn parts, as I recall).

Gorgie boy
05.02.2008, 17:01
Most of the misprints seem quite obvious don't they?



The frustration is that many are not obvious, in fact are totally ambiguous. Tending to go with the score myself as opposed to parts. That's what adjudicators will have on the day after all.

tubafran
05.02.2008, 17:11
The frustration is that many are not obvious, in fact are totally ambiguous. Tending to go with the score myself as opposed to parts. That's what adjudicators will have on the day after all.

Which of course means that as we are playing off the band parts they are all going to need correcting to be in line with the score - so if we miss one of the many dims or cresc marked in the wrong place it will be considered an error by said adjudicator(s).

Gorgie boy
05.02.2008, 17:33
Which of course means that as we are playing off the band parts they are all going to need correcting to be in line with the score - so if we miss one of the many dims or cresc marked in the wrong place it will be considered an error by said adjudicator(s).

Pretty much done already!

bcbeuph
05.02.2008, 17:38
Just spoke to the publisher and a complete new set of parts and score will be available within 7 - 10 days (error free)

An errata sheet should be available at the end of this week.

Ipswich trom
05.02.2008, 17:53
Just spoke to the publisher and a complete new set of parts and score will be available within 7 - 10 days (error free)

An errata sheet should be available at the end of this week.


I just heard this too, although it will be an errata book rather than sheet lol. I wonder if bands that bought new sets in recent months will get a free set?

Chunky
05.02.2008, 17:53
Just spoke to the publisher and a complete new set of parts and score will be available within 7 - 10 days (error free)

An errata sheet should be available at the end of this week.

I assume that all competing bands will be automatically sent these parts and scores free of charge?;)

stevetrom
05.02.2008, 19:05
Just spoke to the publisher and a complete new set of parts and score will be available within 7 - 10 days (error free)

An errata sheet should be available at the end of this week.

and I assume it will be free of charge in exchange for the 'faulty' set of parts and score which a band has paid good money for in the past

Will the Sec
06.02.2008, 01:05
I wait with interest. I'm betting there'll be at least a dozen errors that tMPers have spotted that aren't on the list... ... ... ... ... ...

GJG
06.02.2008, 11:33
Can't say at the moment; unfortunately I absentmindedly left my briefcase at the bandhall last night. I will look on Monday.

OK, just rechecked my score; now I only have 9 bars between 60 & 70. Not sure how I miscounted on Friday ...

MR WMS
06.02.2008, 15:12
OK, just rechecked my score; now I only have 9 bars between 60 & 70. Not sure how I miscounted on Friday ...


Why worry? Bandpersons only need one bar anyway:)

Pav
06.02.2008, 15:30
Why worry? Bandpersons only need one bar anyway:)

Which is why the Midlands area isn't at Burton anymore. :biggrin:

Laserbeam bass
07.02.2008, 20:04
I wait with interest. I'm betting there'll be at least a dozen errors that tMPers have spotted that aren't on the list... ... ... ... ... ...

I didn't realise there were any errors in our parts Bruv. I just assumed that the wrong notes coming out of the bass section were sticky valves LMAO

Railybobs
08.02.2008, 08:05
OK, just rechecked my score; now I only have 9 bars between 60 & 70. Not sure how I miscounted on Friday ...

You have to have qualifications to be a proofreader - nice to see this one had all of his faculties with him that day - os did he leave the at the bar the night before?

leisa
08.02.2008, 09:26
The flugel part is ridiculous for errors! theres hundreds of them! :mad:

WoodenFlugel
08.02.2008, 09:37
The flugel part is ridiculous for errors! theres hundreds of them! :mad:

..including several bars with totally the wrong part on them!!

We're still finding problems with all the parts (you name it, there's a mistake somewhere on every one) yet we've heard nothing from the contest organisers - not even "if in doubt, play what's on the score" (though that isn't always right either!). As I have said (ranted!) before, James Cook is hardly a new commission, and it sounds like the errors were fairly well-known beforehand, so why wasn't something done before the piece was announced?

Oh I know - because that would've meant someone getting off their backside and doing something pro-active for a change.


WF - getting pig sick of spending rehearsal time sorting out error-strewn parts (every year)

Railybobs
08.02.2008, 10:22
..including several bars with totally the wrong part on them!!

We're still finding problems with all the parts (you name it, there's a mistake somewhere on every one) yet we've heard nothing from the contest organisers - not even "if in doubt, play what's on the score" (though that isn't always right either!). As I have said (ranted!) before, James Cook is hardly a new commission, and it sounds like the errors were fairly well-known beforehand, so why wasn't something done before the piece was announced?

Oh I know - because that would've meant someone getting off their backside and doing something pro-active for a change.


WF - getting pig sick of spending rehearsal time sorting out error-strewn parts (every year)



It'll be good to see which band wins - the one that plays he score - which is wrong and sounds like a road accident

or

the band that plays what they think it should be - which is interpritation - oh dear what will we do if the good old british brass band can use it's imagination..................................

I do get the feeling that the longer this goes on the less that can be done about it.

WoodenFlugel
08.02.2008, 12:07
It'll be good to see which band wins - the one that plays he score - which is wrong and sounds like a road accident

or

the band that plays what they think it should be - which is interpritation - oh dear what will we do if the good old british brass band can use it's imagination..................................

I do get the feeling that the longer this goes on the less that can be done about it.

FWIW I've never heard an adjudicator say after a contest that band A beat band B because they played the piece correctly to the errata. There are some pretty glaring errors in the parts for James Cook, but the winning bands come March will be the ones doing the basics well - together, in tune, balanced, get round the technicalities etc etc - as the winning band in any contest does. It probably won't matter if the flugel player plays what's written on the part in the last section or what's on the score.

But - for me at least - the issue here is one of the quality of that goods being sold to the bands, and the support given to them by the people who chose this piece in the first place. As I've just said the errors in this piece were well known - its older than me(!) and has been played numerous times before by bands of varying levels. Surely someone on the fabled "selection committee" knew that the parts were full of errors - and if they were so far removed from contesting as to not know (which I know they're not) it wouldn't take too much effort to ask a band / conductor who played it in the past for their input on this. IMO this should be the case with any older regional piece chosen, if not with any regional piece new or old. Isn't this just common sense, given that most (if not all) bands in whichever section will be shelling out upwards of £50 of their hard-earned cash to buy the piece? Money their players most likely raised by giving up their time and freezing their balls off outside Asda or Tesco before Christmas. It's very frustrating having to trawl through the score and spend time sorting out parts when we really should be perfecting the notes.

That's bad enough, but we now have the situation where anyone who is in a position to do something to resolve this situation are [seemingly] sticking their fingers in their ears and ignoring it. And it's not as if this was the first time this has happened too. It's not good enough and that annoys me.

:frown: