National Finals - 3rd Section Test Piece : Imperium [Archive]

Roger Thorne

15.06.2007, 06:26

We're still waiting too........!!

Thats pretty typical of Just Music really, give it another couple of weeks.....!!

I ordered our copy direct from the Publisher, paid on-line and it was here in two days - excellent service.

:clap:

BbBill

15.06.2007, 08:33

Yeh I know, told our secretary to do that but she'd already ordered it along with some other stuff! Will they ever learn?!

lauren

15.06.2007, 09:03

Has anyone played through it yet? What do people think?

Definitely something for 3rd section bands to get their teeth into!!

cookie101880

15.06.2007, 09:29

Hiya, We have played it throught 3 or 4 times now and it's going to be a cracking piece and a stern test. Not to much under the fingers apart from E flat bass that has got a nightmare of a part. First bar forte F to top A! Nice. Tenor horn opens 2nd movement on it's own. Nice long euph solo and the top cornet has a quiet solo which in some points is high in the register. Third movement is very bold to start and then quickly shifts tempo to a lively pace.

The problem I think will be with how to play it. It needs to be played loud and big aka pines of rome but many 3rd section bands won't have that sound and that could make them sound harsh. If they do that it will sound ****** awful but if it's not played with a firm dynamic then it will sound sound weak.

Is it a question of going all out like the roman army did or playing it safe?

stopher

17.06.2007, 18:21

The piece arrived on saturday morning - I did try ordering from the publisher but can't get the website to load properly and tried phoning but kept getting no answer.

Looks interesting - should have a fun summer holiday this year working on that!

BbBill

21.06.2007, 22:59

We had a blow through it tonight, despite a few folk not being there, so hard to get the overall picture of it and also with everybody sightreading it! But I think it will grow on me!

Sounds quite interesting tho, and quite alot of loud bits I see!! Spent most of night on 1st movement, but in the 3rd movement, I think some bands could end up going like the clappers from the Presto!

Should be good to work on it, fitting it all together through the summer.

andyp

23.06.2007, 07:49

Had a first run last night, looks like fun!

1st movt is Roman fanfare followed by a fugue, 2nd is nice slow one with euph solo followed by cornet (top Bb mp to ff in one bar then to top B over top of band all at ff, after already solo for 16 bars or so, crotchet=60, gonna be fun!). 3rd starts off loud a la end of Pines of Rome/Gladiator then 12/8 Presto very like last movt of "Viscaya", ends up very loud Pines of Rome/Gladiator type ending, then 2nd last bar cornets v.quiet quavers then a big shock note to finish (which we made a complete hash of, eliciting the comment "Is that where he got stabbed?).

Looks pretty good at first reading, a real stamina test, think a few will be straining towards the end if they go at it hammer and tongs. Also think some may be tempted to go faster to save their lips and come a cropper that way.

Now I know why we've been trying Pines Of Rome out for the last three weeks......stamina training!

Tuba Dave

23.06.2007, 19:06

We've had a couple of runs through now. I love it! I think its a great test for third section bands. It's certainly one the best eb bass parts ive played for a while and it will keep me occupied for a couple of weeks at least!! ;-)

notsosilentbob

30.06.2007, 07:58

It's a massive blow. Not much in it technically for my part but stamina is the key. I was seeing stars after tanking through it in my customary manner the other night ;). And yes, there is a danger of just razzing through the piece. All bands need to be mindful of that particular pitfall. Also a strong bass end and percussion in particular is a must.

Good luck all

1alexm

02.07.2007, 14:57

I like the idea of 75 bars of double forte in the start of the last movement!! I think the last movement is really fun for solo cornets.

bbg

07.08.2007, 22:09

Thread has gone a bit quiet - has nobody any energy left after rehearsals to post??! This piece is definitely growing on me - a good test all round, one of these Vizcaya-type pieces that are easy to play badly, by which I mean that there are plenty of "tunes" which can get the band racing along, giving it laldy. The devil as always will be in the detail - phrasing, intonation, ensemble playing, dynamics etc etc. Looking forward to our "away" weekend when we get some serious sectional/ensemble work done.

andyp

08.08.2007, 07:17

We're liking it more and more, there's some serious detail in it, particularly 1st movt with the fugue etc.
Tempos will be interesting as they're all very specific, =88, =90, etc, no c., so will the adjudicators look for the tempo or go "it's only a guide!", thus making a nonsense of the markings?

Last movt is set up for someone to rush and/or overblow. Stamina training definitely required though!

So far have found bits like Gladiator, Pines of Rome, and echoes of the Ben Hur "March of the Charioteers".

1alexm

10.08.2007, 23:57

andyp

11.08.2007, 13:14

Hi, i just wondered if the errata sheet for this test piece is out yet. My band noticed a few odd bits which seem incorrect, like for the solo cornets in the third movement there is a tremolo, and the valve fingerings are marked, but if you followed the valve fingerings it's a trill. I can't remember what note it is because i left the music at the bandroom but i think it's a G tremolo.

Not seen any sheets yet (it's early days - probably get it start of Sept :roll:), but that has to be a misprint, a G trem is 0 to 1+3, but it's down as 0-3, which would be G to A trill as you say.
I never noticed that!! :oops:

How's everyone's back row liking bars 99-102 third movt?

Roger Thorne

22.08.2007, 05:10

Hi, i just wondered if the errata sheet for this test piece is out yet.

Received an official errata yesterday and have posted it here:

http://www.themouthpiece.com/vb/showthread.php?t=29514

Although they seem to have missed one or two more obvious errors!!!

;)

BbBill

22.08.2007, 08:44

Do you want to enlighten us what other ones are then?!

Ive only played the piece a couple of times so havent studied it really, still not that keen on it tho! But it'll probably grow on me....!

We've been busy preparing for Troon this weekend!

bbg

23.08.2007, 14:32

andyp asks - "how's everyone's back row liking bars 99-102 third movt?".....

.....you mean we're meant to PLAY them?? Thought we just listened to the "stars" of the front row and admired their technique........

Seriously, though, the piece is a cracker - plenty to keep everyone on their toes and occupied with some great solo passages (makes me glad to be a back rower these days). Basses and perc also earn their corn (OK , salt - it is after all a Roman piece). We have just had our "away" weekend, when we got a power of work done from Friday evening until Sunday teatime - tonight's rehearsal will tell how much we have all benefitted/remembered!

Roger Thorne

25.08.2007, 07:45

Seriously, though, the piece is a cracker - plenty to keep everyone on their toes

Especially the last movement!!

We've added some Choreography, as we are finding it very difficult to conjure up impressions of Julius Caesar and Pompey - At the next rehearsal I will issue swords, shields and helmets to try and capture the ambience of the period.

Incidentally was Julius Caesar a long lost relative of Michael Flatley?

http://www.dsid.dk/riverdance.jpg

:biggrin:

brassneck

25.08.2007, 08:56

Incidentally was Julias Ceasar a long lost relative of Michael Flatley?

... possibly, but I don't think Julius Caesar was! ;)

stopher

25.08.2007, 09:41

Didn't realise that Caesar was actually riverdanced do death - thought he was stabbed myself! Liking the piece though

bbg

25.08.2007, 21:32

Can't wait to see Mr Thorne's band dancing on stage at Harrogate - and the adjudicator's remarks re "excessive percussion effects" will be priceless, but we all know that it was only 20 pairs of feet ! Julius Flatley does have quite a nice ring to it all the same.....
Apart from "Riverdance", anyone else think that the first 4 bars of the Tarantella (or Tarantula?) sounds like "Lincolnshire Poacher"? Thought not...it's just our principal cornets' imagination after all.
On a serious note, agree that "conjuring up impressions" of characters is tricky - very easy just to think of gladiators , legions on the march etc but tring to depict the character of major historical figures is certainly a challenge. According to the adjudicators, most Scottish bands failed miserably in their portrayals of Tam o' Shanter a couple of years back - maybe we'll do Romans better?

andyp

25.08.2007, 23:27

Apart from "Riverdance", anyone else think that the first 4 bars of the Tarantella (or Tarantula?) sounds like "Lincolnshire Poacher"?

No, but there's a distinct similarity to the last bit of "Viscaya" (different country involved though!)

PeterBale

25.08.2007, 23:51

Didn't realise that Caesar was actually riverdanced do death - thought he was stabbed myself! Liking the piece though

I thought it was Caesar and the Gallic Wars, not the Gaelic ones ;)

brassneck

26.08.2007, 00:02

I thought it was Caesar and the Gallic Wars, not the Gaelic ones ;)

:clap:

tubbytuba

02.09.2007, 22:58

Had a great weekend of rehersals with Alan Morrison the piece is making real sense now,and the second movement is sounding great, a beautiful showcase for the solo horn (my daughter) and the flugel, for such a very young band (Camborne B) they are really starting to shine!!!!

Euphliz

06.09.2007, 19:18

How's everyone's back row liking bars 99-102 third movt?

The words "loving it" spring to mind, I think these bars, give the back rowers a chance to show what they can do, yes its difficult, but with practise, you can get it right, and at the proper tempo! :sup

Redhorn

20.09.2007, 18:23

Does anyone know whether they are supplying two timps or three?...
cant find info on the web anywhere.

BbBill

20.09.2007, 19:05

I think theres 3 provided, (will double-check tonight), its on the percussion plan that your secretary shouldve recieved!!

bbg

20.09.2007, 22:48

Checked with our perc team tonight - plan as received in early Aug says 3 timps, although stage illusration appears to show 4, definitely more than two anyway! Also in the plan is a pretty clear warning that NO other perc can be taken on stage (apart from own snare / stool) and none of the provided stuff should be moved, aiming to cut down on setup time to try to keep the whole day moving along at a reasonable pace.

Anno Draconis

21.09.2007, 08:15

Also in the plan is a pretty clear warning that NO other perc can be taken on stage (apart from own snare / stool) and none of the provided stuff should be moved, aiming to cut down on setup time to try to keep the whole day moving along at a reasonable pace.

Interesting. I would have thought that this would handicap bands who's set-up will have to drastically change. If you're used to hearing the timps behind you but on the day you get the tam-tam, it'll be somewhat confusing. Plus all the percussionists' choreography will go to pot. Seems a bit impractical to me. Are they also banning bands from changing the seating layouts?

PS I can't imagine they'd supply less than 3 timps, otherwise all the timpanists would have to be pedalling wizards to get all the notes in.

andyp

21.09.2007, 10:16

Interesting. I would have thought that this would handicap bands who's set-up will have to drastically change. If you're used to hearing the timps behind you but on the day you get the tam-tam, it'll be somewhat confusing. Plus all the percussionists' choreography will go to pot. Seems a bit impractical to me. Are they also banning bands from changing the seating layouts?

True, but bands should have had that plan at least a month ago - long enough to get used to the setup?

I can understand the thinking behind it, wasn't there one year at a top section contest (Open?) where the changeovers were taking up to 15 mins per band? With 20 bands that's just not on.
As far as I know there's no ban on changing the seating, but that doesn't take very long. Last time we went to Harrogate (2005) while we were waiting to go on stage some guys from Kapitol came and asked us how we wanted the seating, even down to how many stands per row. They then put it like that once the previous band walked off and all we had to do was walk on, maybe shufffle a couple of inches and play. I thought it was fantastic - you get so used to having to do the seating yourselves that you really appreciate service like that. Plus having a proper warm-up room too!

Anno Draconis

21.09.2007, 10:21

True, but bands should have had that plan at least a month ago - long enough to get used to the setup?

If they're organised enough, certainly!

I'm thinking more of bands that are constrained by the size/layout of their bandroom; maybe they have to have the perc behind the trombones or back row. I can understand (and after Torquay, fully support) the thinking behind it, I just think it might end up penalising a few bands.

tubbytuba

21.09.2007, 22:26

stopher

23.09.2007, 15:43

i think the audience is in for a real treat!!!!

Just found out that you don't get bandsman tickets if you are playing so have to cough up £7.50. Not sure i agree with that!

Should be a fun week - am wagging with one band in the 3rd and playing in the 2nd so thats my week gone!

andyp

24.09.2007, 12:55

Well everybody with a little over a week!!! hows it going,wobbly knees and jitters or is it going well??? Last minute tweeks and lots of run throughs we are finding it a great piece to play, very atmospheric, some very rich beautiful music, i was late for practice this evening and had the luxury of standing back and hearing a run through, it was great, i think the audience is in for a real treat!!!!

I agree, we're really enjoying rehearsing it (although stamina training has been in order!)

Bet you there's nobody in the first 10 rows, there really is the potential for someone to go over the top with this one, especially the last movement. Can see how it could easily get overblown and rushed towards the end!

tubbytuba

24.09.2007, 22:00

Its a long journey for us from Cornwall, it will be nice to see some welcoming faces at Brighouse (where we are staying) and great to use the Brighouse band room to rehearse .We have had a busy couple of weeks as i expect most of you reading this and now it will be great to get stuck in on the stage!!!!!

bbg

24.09.2007, 22:45

It will certainly be a long trip for tubbytuba & co from Camborne - it's also a fair hike from up here in God's own country, although spare a thought for Campbeltown who have over 100 miles to travel before they hit any dual carriageway/motorway. Where's everyone basing themselves? We are scheduled to arrive in Huddersfield (George Hotel) at around 7 on Friday evening, leaving there by 7 on the Saturday morning to be in Harrogate in time for the draw. Back to the hotel at night before returning home on Sunday. Ready for rehearsals tomorrow/Wed/Thu, then Fri in the hotel; probably typical of most bands at this stage there are times when the piece sounds great....and others when it sounded better when first sight-read!
Looking forward to Saturday though when hopefully all the hard work will be worth it.

tubbytuba

24.09.2007, 23:04

bbg we reckon its around 8/9 hours on the bus for us to the Holiday Inn at Brighouse we arrive Friday early evening for a quick tea before a rehersal with Alan Morrison, an early night before Sat,we are much the same, so really great runs through and the odd not so great ha ha but on the whole its really on course at the mo

BbBill

25.09.2007, 00:50

Yeh we're leaving at 8am on Friday morn, reckoning its going to take us at least 10hrs to get to Harrogate, we're staying in the Yorkshire Hotel.

Im just back from a 360 mile round-trip to Fife tonight, to borrow Kingdom Brass' bass drum for the practices this week!!

bbg

28.09.2007, 12:10

Less than an hour before I leave the house to head out to meet the coach, Harrogate here we come!
Just a final word to wish all tMP'ers (and their bands of course) all the best for this weekend - winners and losers there must be, but whatever our own outcomes, let's enjoy the experience.
Let battlus commencus as old Julius probably never said.....

hvb_shizzle

28.09.2007, 13:01

Good luck to all the bands taking part this year in the third section i was doing the same thing this time last year, enjoy the experience the buzz that you get is amazing so much that you go on to auto pilot when playing (thank god for all those rehershals!).
Also a special good luck to Dodworth and Clifton and Lightcliffe who are doing it for Yorkshire.