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View Full Version : National Finals - 1st Section Test Piece : Victorian Snapshots On Ratcliff Highway



Di
06.06.2007, 18:55
Order details and discussion for the National Finals First Section Test Piece :

Victorian Snapshots on Ratcliff Highway Ray Steadman-Allen
Tel : (01933) 445445

David Mann
06.06.2007, 22:42
Will they sell the score alone or a study score? I'd definitely buy one.

WorldofBrass.com
07.06.2007, 09:00
Will they sell the score alone or a study score? I'd definitely buy one.

Band sets with full score are on the World of Brass website.

If you'd like a score alone, please call 01933 445 445.
There isn't a study score for On Ratcliff Highway but if we sense sufficient demand then I'll ask if we can do one.

ROBTHEDOG
08.06.2007, 00:51
1st sight reading tonight all got through it no casualties, looking forward to doing some good work on it.

Interesting trombone parts ! lots of 'pseudo' inebriate detail and character.

As has been said elsewhere, worthy of concert performance too!

RussQ
09.06.2007, 22:47
Recently recorded by YBS on their 'Essays for Brass' series. Awesome playing. Should be a good test.

brassneck
09.06.2007, 22:57
Another recording to listen to is the New York Staff Band's one on Glorifico! (http://www.worldofbrass.eu/acatalog/24632.html) released in 2005. It's lighter in style compared to the YBS recording but still enjoyable to audition and study.

Bass Man
13.06.2007, 23:26
We just had our first crack at the piece. It's excellent, I can't wait to get well and truly stuck into it in the build up to the contest!!!!

horny100
15.06.2007, 09:38
Sorry, must disagree with last few comments.......we must have played a different piece last night........"good test"....."excellent", not so sure????

Is it what potential championship section bands wanted, or indeed needed?

SoppyBoy
15.06.2007, 13:18
Recently recorded by YBS on their 'Essays for Brass' series. Awesome playing. Should be a good test.

And if it hadn't been recorded by them, then there is no way it would have been chosen!!

How on earth can a piece like this, which was composed without a thought for it ever being used in a contest setting, be something to look forward to rehearsing!! Even as a concert piece it's not great, so as a test for supposedly the best 1st section bands in the country... I always thought the Finals pieces were supposed to be more musically and technically challenging for the bands that had qualified from the Area's, and also used as preparation for those bands that had managed to get promoted to the Championship Section? I honestly believe that this piece could have been used in the 3rd Section.

Can't wait for September so we no longer have to play this rubbish!!

BbBill
15.06.2007, 17:41
"OOOOOOOOOOO said the crowd.........!!!!" ;)

SuperMosh
15.06.2007, 18:15
I honestly believe that this piece could have been used in the 3rd Section.

lol - You pending National Champions then?:rolleyes:

We haven't played it yet, but after listening to a few versions of it, I personally feel it will be a good test of bands. Maybe for a different thread but what makes one piece 'better' than an other in terms of suitability for the best first section bands in the country?

Debra Smith
15.06.2007, 23:37
Am I the only person on here who does not get this piece of music. After reading all the rave reviews on the Mouthpiece I could not wait to listen to the first section finals test piece and when I did I was so disappointed!! Hopefully when we start rehearsing it I will start to enjoy it!

Daniel Sheard
16.06.2007, 11:55
Am I the only person on here who does not get this piece of music. After reading all the rave reviews on the Mouthpiece I could not wait to listen to the first section finals test piece and when I did I was so disappointed!! Hopefully when we start rehearsing it I will start to enjoy it!

Have to say I agree with that. I found there was something "emperor's new clothes" like reading all the positive comments on 4BR and some on here.

tenorhorndavid
16.06.2007, 12:36
This is a fantastic piece of music which will grow on you the more you play it. The first time I played it I wasn't too keen but now it grew on me after two or three practices. It also helps to know the story that the piece is trying to tell and in my opinion produces on the best and most effective finales to any piece of Salvation Army music.

Trust me you will grow to love it!!

Daniel Sheard
16.06.2007, 13:16
? Having trombones play "drunk" by doing lots of glisses and "wrong notes"? Not really my cup of tea.

ian perks
16.06.2007, 14:21
And if it hadn't been recorded by them, then there is no way it would have been chosen!!

How on earth can a piece like this, which was composed without a thought for it ever being used in a contest setting, be something to look forward to rehearsing!! I honestly believe that this piece could have been used in the 3rd Section.

Can't wait for September so we no longer have to play this rubbish!!
Im sorry with you on this one but not many bands will play this piece and i reckon a good number will treat it as a bit of a joke,and find they will come unstuck on it.
Its a first class piece and it WILL test the bands cant wait to get stuck into it:clap:

Morghoven
16.06.2007, 16:49
How on earth can a piece like this, which was composed without a thought for it ever being used in a contest setting, be something to look forward to rehearsing!!

So only pieces that have been written specifically as test pieces and nothing else are fun to rehearse? If that's what you really think, then a) I feel very sorry for you and b) I am very sure you are in a tiny minority in banding.


I honestly believe that this piece could have been used in the 3rd Section.

Then you must be thinking of a different piece to the one I am.

It's easy to take lightly a piece that isn't massively technical, but in many ways those sorts of pieces are easier tests to 'pass'. This one will sort out ensemble, tuning, interpretation and the ability to tell a story in music. Not only is 'On Ratcliffe Highway' a brilliant piece of music, but it's a good follow-up to 'The Wayfarer' - the musical language is more advanced, but it poses similar challenges to the ones that so many bands frankly failed to meet back in March.

ROBTHEDOG
17.06.2007, 00:14
There's always going to be a "can't satisfy everybody every time" but my initial listening and play through surely this make a change from the valve-oil burning mindless technique for the sake of it..

There is a point that this is a test for the 'BEST' 1st section bands and maybe a bit easy - but they said that about The Wayfarer and what a mess many bands made of a suposedly 'easy' piece.

Play what's on the score with entertaining interpretation !!

Should be a test.

BTW don't understand the comment "Wrong notes" ?? -

SoppyBoy
17.06.2007, 17:03
So only pieces that have been written specifically as test pieces and nothing else are fun to rehearse? If that's what you really think, then a) I feel very sorry for you and b) I am very sure you are in a tiny minority in banding.

No, definitely not saying this at all. I love playing all types of music, whether it's playing in bands, orchestra's, test-pieces, light 'cheesy' concert music or whatever. There have been many pieces in the past that have been used and criticised by a majority that i have absolutely loved playing (Prague as an example!!)

What i am saying is that i am disappointed that this piece of music has been chosen to test the 1st Section bands at the national finals. I listened to this piece a number of times before we actually received it, and my initial impressions were not great. I was determined to like it, and hopefully, as someone has stated, it might eventually grow on me.

I do agree that many bands will not take it seriously, but i know we will and will try to put on a good performance. With all the controversy surrounding the choice of last year's finals piece, i would have thought the selection panel may have gone with something a little more 'traditional' (might not be the right word, but i'm sure you know what i mean)

I honestly do like some of RSA's other pieces, and i think some of the music written for the SA has been great, and the movement is better for it. I apologise if my comments caused any offence, and i think my final comment in my first post was perhaps a little strong:oops:

stotty74
18.06.2007, 08:28
Can't say i'm a fan of this piece. Listened to it before we got it, and when asked what i thought i said "interesting" ;-)

I think the danger will be if some bands decide not to take it seriously. I know our MD will work us as hard on this piece as any other test piece. A LOT of bands under-estimated 'The Wayfarer', but after working so hard to get to the finals, surely the bands that have qualified will work equally as hard again?

Northop have been in the 1st Section now for the last 3 years, and i'm not really sure what to make of the choice of test-pieces for the area's and finals. I think the best i can say is "interesting"...

carlwoodman
18.06.2007, 11:58
It also helps to know the story that the piece is trying to tell.....

Precisely!
In fact I would suggest that it's essential to understand the story being told and also the social history of late nineteenth century London.

sheilawinter
18.06.2007, 17:07
i think the test piece is a great piece and it will be the band that wants it most to win so we had all better start practicing if we want to win as there are alot of really hard bits in it to get together
It could be any one to win

Craigsav83
18.06.2007, 20:49
Can't say i'm a fan of this piece. Listened to it before we got it, and when asked what i thought i said "interesting" ;-)



Just interesting then? Hehe. Perhaps it'll grow on you, there's plenty of time yet ;) I think its a great piece, and importantly, its a good 'un for the audience too, theres tunes and stuff that they will actually recognise!

Good luck with your exams Karl, see you in September :tup

Texus
19.06.2007, 10:43
Listened to the piece last night on CD. Sounds like a bit of fun, especially for the bones! Not really my type or first choice, but definately worth a listen. Good luck all!

Bryan_sop
28.06.2007, 19:47
Had a blow through the piece and had a quick look through on my own. Looks fun but was hoping for more to get my teeth into!

What's the deal when the trom part is divisi? Are people using less cornets and more troms?

brasscrest
28.06.2007, 19:57
What's the deal when the trom part is divisi? Are people using less cornets and more troms?

Interesting point - the SA instrumentation is not the same as the standard contest instrumentation - as with many SA pieces, this one really requires four trombones. But there's also no repiano part, so does that mean that the rep players are left out in favor of another trombone?

I know that SA pieces have been used as tests in other contests (Wilkinson a couple of years ago did an all-SA contest) - did this come up then and how was it handled?

Morghoven
28.06.2007, 20:16
This is a minefield and no mistake!

I would say there's no hard and fast rule. There is certainly a case on some pieces for going with eight Bb cornets and four trombones (rather than the usual contesting nine and three). On other pieces, you probably don't need the four trombones even if the part does divide.

What does the rep player play? I think either solo cornet, making five on a part - something not uncommon in SA bands - or divide the back row to be two playing 1st cornet, three playing 2nd. Again it very much depends on the piece.

And if you really want one to juggle with, try 'Corpus Christi' by Robert Redhead. Solo cornet part divides into five, 1st and 2nd cornet parts both divide in two, and there's a trombone quartet feature... :eek:

Getting dangerously away from the point, I would love to see bands playing four trombones on a regular basis. Having that trombone quartet sound available in the scoring is a real bonus.

GJG
29.06.2007, 09:36
I can't be 100% certain of this, but I believe by the time "Radcliffe Highway" came out it was standard practice for the SA to publish pieces with harmonically critical div trombones to be cued in other parts (usually baritone).

brasscrest
29.06.2007, 14:11
I can't be 100% certain of this, but I believe by the time "Radcliffe Highway" came out it was standard practice for the SA to publish pieces with harmonically critical div trombones to be cued in other parts (usually baritone).

This piece was not published as a part of any of the regular Band Journals - at the time this was originally published, it was one of a small number of "big" items that were independently printed (the genesis of today's "Judd Street Collection"). If I'm remembering correctly, the original published parts were simply copies of the manuscript parts - without any significant editing at all. So on those parts, there were only cues if RSA put them in the manuscript. If the parts have since been typeset, additional cues may have been added.

Having not played this particular piece for many years, I can't remember whether there actually are any cues in the baritone parts. Even if there are, there's a significant difference in tonal quality between a true trombone quartet and three bones and a bari. The harmony might be OK, but the sound will definitely suffer.

GJG
29.06.2007, 15:44
... there's a significant difference in tonal quality between a true trombone quartet and three bones and a bari. The harmony might be OK, but the sound will definitely suffer.

Not disputing any of that. Even more reason for either Kapitol or the adjudicators to formally issue some guidance on what course of action they expect bands to take.

PeterBale
29.06.2007, 16:42
Not disputing any of that. Even more reason for either Kapitol or the adjudicators to formally issue some guidance on what course of action they expect bands to take.


Maybe Carl could throw some light on what the ISB do, as it has recently been in their repertoire, and they only played three troms.

BandTaxi
29.09.2007, 21:43
Results:
1. Pennine Brass, Ian Porthouse, 17, 194
2. Northop Silver, Thomas Wyss, 4, 190
3. Poulton le Fylde, Gary Clegg, 15, 187
4. Derwent Brass, Keith Leonard, 10, 186
5. Timperley Band, David Evans, 6, 185
6. Woodfalls Concert Brass, Steve Dunster, 16, 184

Soloist: Bb Bass, Pennine Brass

courtesy of 4barsrest.com

Obviously the adjudicators thought that the first 2 stood out - 7 marks between 1st and 3rd!!

BandTaxi
29.09.2007, 21:54
Test Piece: Victorian Snapshots - On Ratcliff Highway, Ray

Steadman-Allen
Adjudicators: C. Brian Buckley & Wing Cmdr. Rob Wiffen OBE
Saturday 29th September
Commences after awards for Third Section

Results:

1. Pennine Brass, Ian Porthouse, 17, 194
2. Northop Silver, Thomas Wyss, 4, 190
3. Poulton le Fylde, Gary Clegg, 15, 187
4. Derwent Brass, Keith Leonard, 10, 186
5. Timperley Band, David Evans, 6, 185
6. Woodfalls Concert Brass, Steve Dunster, 16, 184
7. Felling, Graeme Tindall, 11, 183
8. Hyde, Jonathan Camps, 14, 182
9. Stocksbridge, D. Nesbitt, 7, 181
10. Lockwood Brass, John Roberts, 3, 180
11. Treherbert, Craig Roberts, 13, 179
12. Milton Keynes Brass, Paul Fensom, 9, 176
13. Gresley Colliery, David Hirst, 8, 175
14. Jackfield Elcock Reisen, John Maines, 1, 174
15. City of Cambridge, Peter Bassano, 2, 172
16. Newmilns & Galston, Craig Anderson, 12, 168
17. Dunaskin Doon, John Boax, 5, 167

Soloist: Andy McNae, Bb Bass, Pennine Brass

Courtesy of 4barsrest.com

dyl
29.09.2007, 22:42
Please continue discussion here: http://www.themouthpiece.com/vb/showthread.php?t=27144