View Full Version : Carnival Errata (unofficial)
I know there is another thread discussing Carnival and the errata is being discussed on there. But would people like to share the discrepancies they have found between parts and the score on here (as there won't be an official errata) without the discussion on the merits on the piece etc?
We have found a number which include the last note of cavalcade in the sop.
Edit: Although tMP are happy to host an errata thread, we must point out that this is not an official errata and do not take responsibility for the contents of this thread being correct.
This is a great idea, will get our ones tommorow and post them asap.
Alan MacRae
14.02.2007, 22:14
Just started going through the score, but will add any I find. Here's a couple to start:
Movt 1
2 bars before G - 2nd baritone, last crotchet should be Bb
2 bars before H - 2nd baritone, last crotchet should be A (and no tie)
MarkGillatt
15.02.2007, 10:31
This could be quite a contentious issue. One mans wrong note is another mans Dischord! Without an official errata I would just stick to the score.
This could be quite a contentious issue. One mans wrong note is another mans Dischord! Without an official errata I would just stick to the score.
That's a good point Mark. However I feel most poeple understand its not an official errata and will perhaps use common sense and discretion if applying any changes.
Alan MacRae
15.02.2007, 15:48
Exactly... just pointing out things that I spotted... anyone is free to look at them and choose whether or not they agree.
andyfake
16.02.2007, 08:48
We have found a number which include the last note of cavalcade in the sop.
Alison
What are you playing then? My part (brown, possibly even 50 years brown) has a middle C written in, but there's nothing else in that octave. Suggested to conductor I could play middle C as an "enhancement" - he rolled his eyes and told me to do it quetly!!:-?
Andy
andyfake
16.02.2007, 08:52
This could be quite a contentious issue. One mans wrong note is another mans Dischord! Without an official errata I would just stick to the score.
However, Mark, if you could get your sop player to bang that F in nice and loud at Bradford, that would be most welcome ! ;)
brassneck
16.02.2007, 09:08
I would like to see the adjudicators communicating with each other to decide what they feel are wrongly printed notes and publicly declaring what they are. It would make life a lot easier for all!
MarkGillatt
16.02.2007, 10:07
However, Mark, if you could get your sop player to bang that F in nice and loud at Bradford, that would be most welcome ! ;)
Sop players are so far out of tune anyway, I don't think anyone in the hall would be able to tell what notes they are supposed to be playing!:rolleyes: (maybe a few dogs in the George's Hall locality):eek:
This could be quite a contentious issue. One mans wrong note is another mans Dischord! Without an official errata I would just stick to the score.
Like Mark, I also have reservations concerning the validation/authorisation of alleged errata. Having said that, I think it would be helpful if those posting suspected errors would provide a little more information.
Specifically, it would be most helpful to know whether the error is in the score, part, or both.
Euphluke
16.02.2007, 16:46
yo
Jason Poulston Percussion
16.02.2007, 19:16
There is an errata news section on www.emptychairs.co.uk also unnofficial unless its posted by the publisher, take a look.
Two years ago at Yorkshire section 2 area - the judges wafted an "Internet-only" errata about after the event when summing up! - How **** is that?
Even now two years later, it is not a fair contest if we assume all are on the internet and all who are have found any errata - there are a few years to go yet before we may assume that.
The contest organiser should be contacted by ALL bands and the question should be:
Do the adjudicators have the 1957 score, or do they have a changed version?
And.. yes - I am doing just that.
Two years ago at Yorkshire section 2 area - the judges wafted an "Internet-only" errata about after the event when summing up! - How **** is that?
.
Keith - can we please let this one drop now?
I'm sorry if you didnt have internet access at the time (they were on 4br) - i note you're making up for it now!
Iwan Fox thought my summing up was "detailed and very professional"
So did the winning conductor - but he would wouldnt he.
JR
OK, just to show willing, here's a few we found at a sectional yesterday:
1st Movement, bar before "M", 1st Baritone, group of 4 semis on 3rd beat of bar: 2nd semi should probably be f nat. (compare with 2nd cornet at same point.) - NB can't remember if part is different here ...
[Observation: compare inconsistent enharmonic spelling here, F nat on 2nd cornet against E# on 1st bari. Why? There are many such instances throughout the score; this is just incompetent writing!]
1st Movement, 4th bar of "M", 2nd trombone, 2nd note of bar: should it be semiquaver C not D? (score and part) - DISCLAIMER: this one is moot. I have no justification other than to me it just "feels" wrong. Only my musical instinct, and no reason for anyone else to take it on board ...
2nd Movement, 3rd bar of "C", 2nd Baritone, crotchet on 3rd beat should probably be B flat, not B nat. (Chord is a Gmi7 (band pitch) - 2nd Cor. is B flat at octave, together with 1st horn F nat. at same pitch. Previous note on 2nd trom also B flat. Can't see any reason for 2nd Bari. to have dissonant note at this point.]
3rd Movement, 5th bar of "H", 1st Horn, last two quavers of bar: discrepancy between score and part. Part has E & D; comparing with 2nd cornet (5th quaver of bar) and 3rd cornet (6th quaver), score (F# & E) is probably correct.
Movt 1
2 bars before G - 2nd baritone, last crotchet should be Bb
2 bars before H - 2nd baritone, last crotchet should be A (and no tie)
I agree absolutely with your second one; the reversed stem is a bit of a giveaway - just looks like the crotchet stamp was hammered in the wrong position on the plate. Also, chord is clearly simple Dmaj; no obvious reason for B flat, esp in comparison with 2nd Horn and 2nd Trom. (you don't say, is part also incorrect?)
I have reservations about your first one. I can see why you might think that it would be more consistent with previous bar, and also with movement of Flug/Rep. (? one of many inconsistent uses of "SOLI" indication - should it be Flug. only?) and Solo Horn at the octave higher. But C# is not actually "wrong" in harmony (Gmi7/flat5, or possibly a modified G diminished 7th, depending how you look at it), and also matches 3rd Cornet D flat (Enharmonics, again!). I can also see why the composer might want more transparent voicing here, and whilst changing 2nd Bari. to B flat would not be "wrong" in the chord, it would introduce a voicing element not implied in the score. I think I'll pass on this one, if that's OK ;)
(Again, you don't say, is it C# in part also?)
All comments welcomed!
G.
2nd Movement, 3rd bar of "C", 2nd Baritone, crotchet on 3rd beat should probably be B flat, not B nat.
Sorry, omitted to say, suspected error in both score and part.
When we started checking this out after christmas we were told to go by the score and if there are any major changes we will be told.
When we started checking this out after christmas we were told to go by the score and if there are any major changes we will be told.
Quite so, and that would indeed be my advice to anyone who asked. However what I say and what I do ... ;)
2nd Movement, 3rd bar of "C", 2nd Baritone, crotchet on 3rd beat should probably be B flat, not B nat. (Chord is a Gmi7 (band pitch) - 2nd Cor. is B flat at octave, together with 1st horn F nat. at same pitch. Previous note on 2nd trom also B flat. Can't see any reason for 2nd Bari. to have dissonant note at this point.]
Do you mean 4th Bar?
2nd Movement, 3rd bar of "C", 2nd Baritone, crotchet on 3rd beat should probably be B flat, not B nat. (Chord is a Gmi7 (band pitch) - 2nd Cor. is B flat at octave, together with 1st horn F nat. at same pitch. Previous note on 2nd trom also B flat. Can't see any reason for 2nd Bari. to have dissonant note at this point.]
Do you mean 4th Bar?
I do indeed.
Grovelling apologies; can't spill, can't cownt ...
1st Movement, bar before "M", 1st Baritone, group of 4 semis on 3rd beat of bar: 2nd semi should probably be f nat. - NB can't remember if part is different here ...
Addendum: having checked part, score is almost certainly incorrect. Part has E# on 2nd semi. - matches 2nd cornet, apart from enharmonic spelling.
1st Movement, 4th bar of "M", 2nd trombone, 2nd note of bar: should it be semiquaver C not D? (score and part) - DISCLAIMER: this one is moot. I have no justification other than to me it just "feels" wrong. Only my musical instinct, and no reason for anyone else to take it on board ...
Just checked. Both recordings on the Regionals CD play C, not D. Presumably George Willcocks had some insider info. ... but will the adjudicators take note?
euphojim
24.02.2007, 17:04
We have a golden opportunity here for each band to play a different version of Carnival. Should make life for the adjudicators and audience more interesting!.
Just checked. Both recordings on the Regionals CD play C, not D. Presumably George Willcocks had some insider info. ... but will the adjudicators take note?
Gareth please don't get hung up about this - you've obviously done your homework on the piece - the contest will not be won and lost on details such as this. Knowing the adjudicators as I do I can give you an assurance to the best of my ability that they will be as frustrated with the discrepancies as the conductors and will, as a consequence, take this into account - as they did at Harrogate following the "Perfect Fool" debacle.
Best of luck
John R
please don't get hung up about this ... - the contest will not be won and lost on details such as this. ...the adjudicators ... will be as frustrated with the discrepancies as the conductors and will, as a consequence, take this into account
I don't think I'm hung up. I understand what you're saying, and I'm sure you're correct. It's just that under the circumstances, and accepting that, for all the reasons outlined on another thread, there will never be an "official" errata issued, it would still be nice if there were to be some kind of policy statement to that effect. Whether it were to come from the contest organisers, or from the Adjudicators Association, it would, in a sense, just give MD's a little more confidence to have the courage of their convictions.
Thanks anyway John!
G.
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