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Roger Thorne
21.09.2003, 16:05
2nd Section National Final Results

Position - Band - Draw

1. Hatfield Coal Power, 7
2. Bollington Brass, 1
3. Lanner & District Silver, 8
4. Langbaurgh Brass, 16
5. Arbroath Instrumental, 4
6. Houghton Brass, 10,
7. Old Silkstone, 15
8. Manx Concert Brass, 14
9. Broseley Brass, 17
10. Brighton Silver, 18
11. Newmilns & Galston, 9
12. Penclawdd, 11
13. Wantage, 6
14. Llanrug, 5
15. Lympstone South West Telecoms, 12
16. Darley Dale, 13
17. Stourport-on-Severn, 2
18. Shirley, 3

read the full details on 4BarsRest

http://www.4barsrest.com/news/detail.asp?id=1382

:wink:

Baldeagle
21.09.2003, 21:16
Well done Bollington, a great result from number one spot. And well done to my old school friend Peter Christian in the middle. Peter don't drink the Swan dry when you get home :guiness

frisp
23.09.2003, 22:53
This is a very quiet thread!!!

Congratulations to the National Champions-but Old Silkstone were better that 7th, weren't they??

The Judge
24.09.2003, 18:28
Yes, I thought they'd have "wiped the floor" with everyone :wink:

Bluebottle
24.09.2003, 18:52
They had a really gd sound but i think the adjudicators thought it was too "aggressive" in places :?:

floral_dance
24.09.2003, 23:06
I heard old silkstone and had them marked in the top three.

traceybostwick
25.09.2003, 18:54
Thanks for comments re:- Old Silkstone Band, we thought we had played pretty well too. Anyway looking forward to pontins, wilkinsons and butlins contests now. :D [/url][/list][/list][/code][/quote][/u][/i][/b]

Pythagoras
25.09.2003, 19:26
Well done to the Doncastrians! At least I assume this is Hatfield near Donny?

JohnnyEuph
25.09.2003, 19:38
I was playing for Hatfield Coal Power on sunday... I dont know what 4barsrest were listening to at the time, but in my opinion Hatfield's performance was fantastic, and more to the point, the only 'Split free' performance i heard all day!!! (if anyone's not convinced there's a recording to which proves that), On the other hand though, I definetely thought Silkstone would have been in the top 3.

yorkyboy
25.09.2003, 21:26
I felt 2nd section came down more to the interpretation by the adjudicators. Hatfield were a little less agressive more musical, silkstone (IMO) were better but more aggresive.

hairyspuds
26.09.2003, 14:28
but Old Silkstone were better that 7th, weren't they

Nope :lol:

Hatfield were living a dream

Bluebottle
26.09.2003, 17:48
we didnt hear hatfield on stage coz they were in front of us but heard a bit in the practise room and they sounded really gd, stressed, but gd!

Ej
26.09.2003, 18:36
I felt Silkstone were severly peanalised at the weekend in Dundee. The band were marvellous. As some have said " we have the Cd to prove it"!!! so do we and the band sounds class! The balance and warmth for section 2 was fenominal. Yep there were a few bars of horn intonnation and a few minor clips here and there but we are talkin about second section banding and as i beleived the test piece was to work out thwe best band not the one who interpreted the piece the best. I think this is the problem with contests and until this is resolved along with making sure experience is in the box contesting will remain a lottery!!!

Anyway, as they say thats banding and its done with now. Were livin to fight another day!! STRONGER THAN BEFORE >>> BEWARE!!!!!

TrevorK
27.09.2003, 00:03
I felt Silkstone were severly peanalised at the weekend

.. for what ?? Surely the best band IS the band who interpreted the piece the best and with fewer mistakes , tuning problems or clips ???

yorkyboy
27.09.2003, 10:07
I felt Silkstone were severly peanalised at the weekend

.. for what ?? Surely the best band IS the band who interpreted the piece the best and with fewer mistakes , tuning problems or clips ???


Inerpretating the piece is a subjective matter

yorkyboy
27.09.2003, 10:13
I felt Silkstone were severly peanalised at the weekend

.. for what ?? Surely the best band IS the band who interpreted the piece the best and with fewer mistakes , tuning problems or clips ???


Inerpretating the piece is a subjective matter

Mrs Fruity
27.09.2003, 13:08
If interpretation were not taken into account, would the best band be one which played every note in its place, without clips and blips, exactly to the tempo markings and "previously arranged" dynamic markings (i.e f is x decibels, mf x decibels, etc.) but sounded robotic and like a lump of wood?????

JessopSmythe
27.09.2003, 13:15
If interpretation were not taken into account, would the best band be one which played every note in its place, without clips and blips, exactly to the tempo markings and "previously arranged" dynamic markings (i.e f is x decibels, mf x decibels, etc.) but sounded robotic and like a lump of wood?????

Possibly not the ideal solution, but at least we'd all know what we're aiming for. Interpretation is such a subjective thing. Our conductors interpretation of Kensingto Concerto was based on a recording of a winning performance at another contest adjudicated by Roy Newsome. We played reasonably well but got slated for poor interpretation by..... Guess who!

Moy
27.09.2003, 13:22
We played reasonably well but got slated for poor interpretation by..... Guess who!

Hey that's contesting folks.
I am sure we could all say we have gone to contests where we feel we played well and got nowhere and also have played badly and been in the prizelist. I know I can anyway.

JessopSmythe
27.09.2003, 13:53
That wasn't a gripe about the results, it was a query on adjudicator consistency. Our interpretation was very similar to a winning performance, praised for it's interpretation by the same adjudicator yet he didn't like ours. There were only one or two comments about actual playing. This kind of inconsistency is what makes contesting such a lottery.

Repeat. I am not wingeing about our result. We had a fantastic weekend and really enjoyed ourselves. Thats what it's all about really.

floral_dance
27.09.2003, 14:26
I suppose really when you are contesting, after all the hard work, the hours of practice,you then hand your performance over to the adjudicators to decide on it, thats the nature of the game and every band is in the same position, yes sometimes it works for us other against us.

I think the adjudicators have a really hard job and I would not like to be sat in that horible claustrophobic box for an entire day. There have been times when we have felt we deserved to be placed higher, but we either have to accept the final decision or not compete.

Moy
27.09.2003, 14:42
Music is like food...what one person likes another may not like at all.

floral_dance
27.09.2003, 16:03
how true, :)

You wanna blow my what?
27.09.2003, 23:31
This is a very quiet thread!!!

I think the results speak for themselves...... *coughscorruptcoughs*

You wanna blow my what?
27.09.2003, 23:33
They had a really gd sound but i think the adjudicators thought it was too "aggressive" in places :?:

Yeah, that means the sound was too big for 2nd section. I heard some of the bands that came in the top 6 and they had an awful whiney tone.

Llanrug, who might I say were absolutely AWESOME on the day came 14th......says it all really.

Kernewek Den
27.09.2003, 23:38
There is a difference between a 'big sound' and 'being aggressive'!

On this occasion it just didn't work.

You wanna blow my what?
28.09.2003, 00:43
haha come on, you're trying to tell me that they don't know what band's on stage?

Kernewek Den
28.09.2003, 01:19
Like they've even heard of most of the bands playing!

Ej
28.09.2003, 16:57
Well I think Shirley , Llandrug and Silkstone were three of many class bands not into the top 6. Bands with a big sound do get penalised, they always have done int he wrong section. At least we will see with Silkstone into section 1 as off Jan 2004. Either be proved right or wrong.

Cheers " wanna blow mt what"!!! for stickin up for us all!!

Tromgod
28.09.2003, 19:42
Shirley were the only other band that I heard playing on the day. The reason for their placing was surely down to the fact that most of their tempos were extremely brisk and this was obviously not to the liking of the adjudicators. Their playing was very good, I thought, but the speed was against them. Their position was nothing to do with their "big" sound.

Danger Mouse
30.09.2003, 16:48
I'd just like to say well done to Broseley Brass who like many other bands don't believe they deserved the placing they got.

The band played really well but perhaps was just a bit too southern for some.

The Judge
03.10.2003, 00:45
The band played really well but perhaps was just a bit too southern for some.

We came 8th. May be our sound was a bit too much "small Island in the middle of the Irish Sea" for some. :wink:

Danger Mouse
03.10.2003, 14:20
The band played really well but perhaps was just a bit too southern for some.

We came 8th. May be our sound was a bit too much "small Island in the middle of the Irish Sea" for some. :wink:

I believe we were also accused of being too aggressive! :evil: but there you go. :dunno

solo_euph
04.10.2003, 10:01
Shirley were the only other band that I heard playing on the day. The reason for their placing was surely down to the fact that most of their tempos were extremely brisk and this was obviously not to the liking of the adjudicators. Their playing was very good, I thought, but the speed was against them. Their position was nothing to do with their "big" sound.

Thankyou for your coments on our performance we all felt that we had played well and done what our MD had asked .
Our gripe was with the coments made by Duncan and Alan in there suming up of the test peice it is not a disriptive piece about a sunset but a retrespective of the day if you read the program notes provided by the composer. Hoping to be remided of a holiday in Keywest is not what Erick Ball was aming for in his wrighting and as for note seeing an agresive sunset on our way back to Birmingham on Monday night from Dundee we saw one so bright that it hert your eyes to look at it . Lets hope that in the future we can all be given a guide as to what is being looked for in the way of interpritation of a piece at all contest so band can work towards that.
Nothing new here though Erick Ball was told himself in remarks to a band the he was conducting in a contest that this is not what the composer is looking for in this music he was the composer :!: :!:

Moy
04.10.2003, 10:59
What's one mans meat is another mans poison.

4thmandown
04.10.2003, 11:11
Thanks to all who have commented favourably on our performance. I thought we played well too!! And I further agree that there were other quality bands who didn't feature in the frame either. I did feel however, that Sunset Rhapsody was a poor choice as a National Finals piece. Though a very descriptive piece (a retrospective view of life rather than a sunset off Key West!) it is a little too open to vagaries of interpretation for a more objective adjudication. What did con rubato sempre, agitato, marcato etc mean exactly to Messrs Morrison and Beckley? Surely some sort of guidance in a piece of this nature would be useful. After all is there really any point in putting in weeks of effort if your interpretation of the piece writes you off before you even begin to play? Fortunately, the players in my band are suitably philosophical to shoulder a bum result (as we proved at the Wychavon Contest), but sometimes bands can live or die by their contest results. A little more consistency and objectivity please!!

MoominDave
04.10.2003, 14:54
On my fortnightly sojourn here again (should have regular home internet access in two weeks, btw).

Supporting my old band, Wantage, I listened to 13 of the 18 bands in the 2nd section and so maybe my comments will be of some interest. Or maybe not...

Anyway, Hatfield creamed it. They were indisputably the best band on the day - in tune, good tone, and absolutely together. Questions of interpretation aside, nobody else that I heard (note that I missed Bollington's, though) fulfilled these basic musical requirements, and so they were easy winners.

In terms of injustices, I felt Manx were more harshly treated than Silkstone - again a good band sound and together, and with only a few blemishes on the tuning; Silkstone's intonation was not so good, and the full band sound was sometimes a bit nastily overblown, and would also have been criticised in a higher section contest. This wasn't a piece that leant itself to hard blowing, but, despite this, it was up there, although they really dented their chances right at the opening by playing pp as mf! Ditto at the end. In fact, the lower dynamics were too loud all through; it sounded like the piece didn't really suit the band. I had 1 Hatfield 2 Manx 3 Silkstone. Perhaps Manx and Silkstone playing next door to each other didn't help their respective causes.

Other bands mentioned in this thread -

Llanrug seemed good enough for better than 14th (although they were the first band I heard, so maybe I wasn't "warmed up"!). Maybe 7th or 8th.

I thought Lanner were a bit fortunate with 3rd (sorry, chaps!), but then they were the only band that I was sitting right at the back of the hall for. I was in a more consistent position for all the others that I heard. Basically, not tight enough, and plenty of tuning errors. Everything in there though. Perhaps I'm being harsh - very few bands fully got to grips with the music on the day.

Shirley were on before I got into the hall; I spoke to their conductor Dave Lea though, and he wasn't at all keen on some of the interpretations he was hearing - ironic that others should feel that Shirley were treated harshly on the same grounds!

Broseley were a bit loose, but did indeed have a nice Southern (i.e. mercifully free of whimsical vibrato!) band sound - 9th would find no argument from me.

As for the adjudication, it didn't seem entirely consistent with the presented comments, and on a day when playing errors abounded to such an extent that it was completely unnecessary to drag the vagaries of musical interpretation into a considered opinion, I found the emphasis on this aspect by Messrs Morrison and Beckley surprising, to say the least.

Back in two weeks,
Dave

p.s. I think the adjudicators had a bee in their bonnet about "aggression" all day - Wantage's HORN section were specifically described as "aggressive" in their comments. Anyone who knows the splendidly refined playing of Judith Chapman & Co. will find this as amusing as we did...

Midnight
06.10.2003, 14:59
I agree with MoominDave (but could never have put it into words so well).

I heard 14 bands and Hatfield were the only band not to make basic errors of split notes and dreadful intonation.

Many cornet players in particular will have left the hall knowing they could have played a lot better I am sure.

This contest did not get judged on interpretation at all .... too many bands made far too many errors

Kernewek Den
14.10.2003, 23:49
I thought Lanner were a bit fortunate with 3rd (sorry, chaps!),

So you're more qualified than the adjudicators!!!

MoominDave
25.10.2003, 00:31
Aren't we all? :lol:

Naomi McFadyen
25.10.2003, 00:51
couldnt agree more