PDA

View Full Version : 4th Section National Results



Roger Thorne
20.09.2003, 16:04
4th Section National Final Results

Position - Band - Draw

1. Wardle and District Anderson Brass, 8
2. Long Eaton Silver, 1
3. Grange Moor Brass, 13
4. Trinity Girls, 18
5. Lockwood, 14
6. Harlech, 17
7. Hayle Town, 19
8. Ogmore Valley Silver, 7
9. Phoenix West Midlands Brass, 2
10. Nelson Brass, 6
11. Dinnington Colliery, 12
12. Bakewell Silver, 4
13. Hilgay Silver, 20
14. Downton, 16
15. Camborne B, 9
16. Woodbridge Excelsior, 5
17. Bratton Silver, 11
18. Dumfries Town, 10
19. Peebles Burgh Silver, 15
20. Ripon City, 21
21. Great Yarmouth Brass, 3

read the full details on 4BarsRest

http://www.4barsrest.com/news/detail.asp?id=1379

:wink:

HBB
20.09.2003, 18:20
Well DOne Shazza!!!!!!!!!!!!!

COngratulations to Long Eaton, and Every One Else!

aimee_euph
21.09.2003, 01:24
nice to see Trinity Girls up there, i used to play for them 8)

Raspberry
21.09.2003, 10:31
Many congratulations to Long Eaton - I bet it was a nerve wrecking wait for the results but worth it!

Baldeagle
21.09.2003, 21:20
Well done to Sharon and Long Eaton. It's nice to see the Midlands Bands bringing home some prizes :P And a very very well done to Seedhouse on Eupk :bounce

SammyT
21.09.2003, 21:29
We did it - Yeahhhhhhhhhh
Thanks for all the support from tmpers we had one heck of a weekend!!!!!

Roger Thorne
21.09.2003, 21:32
We did it - Yeahhhhhhhhhh
Thanks for all the support from tmpers we had one heck of a weekend!!!!!
Back already!

Didn't expect to hear from you lot until about Wednesday! Thought you might still be celebrating.

:lol: :lol:

SammyT
21.09.2003, 21:38
We are absolutely shattered - some of us partied until the early hours then we had the 8 hour bus journey home - I have just got in and first thing I did was log on here - how dedicated am I!
Just want to say a BIG THANKYOU to john (music man) for my t-shirt which got to me on friday morning so I could where it at the nationals -THANKYOU :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Also "shazzer is our leader" - what a total super star she is. SHe has worked so hard to get us there and it has paid off - 2nd by 3 clear points (to 3rd that is !!)
Yipeeeeeeeeeee PARTY - we will celebrate again I feel (especially with those tmpers going to eric ball thing!)
Thanks to everyone for there support especially rachel (sparkles!!) and Roger and John - Ta guys!!

satchmo shaz
21.09.2003, 22:29
Well DOne Shazza!!!!!!!!!!!!!

COngratulations to Long Eaton, and Every One Else! thanks mate!! 8)

Raspberry
22.09.2003, 01:28
Yipeeeeeeeeeee PARTY - we will celebrate again I feel (especially with those tmpers going to eric ball thing!)


Is that before or after Eric Ball Sammy? 8)

satchmo shaz
22.09.2003, 08:59
We are absolutely shattered - some of us partied until the early hours then we had the 8 hour bus journey home - I have just got in and first thing I did was log on here - how dedicated am I!
Just want to say a BIG THANKYOU to john (music man) for my t-shirt which got to me on friday morning so I could where it at the nationals -THANKYOU :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Also "shazzer is our leader" - what a total super star she is. SHe has worked so hard to get us there and it has paid off - 2nd by 3 clear points (to 3rd that is !!)
Yipeeeeeeeeeee PARTY - we will celebrate again I feel (especially with those tmpers going to eric ball thing!)
Thanks to everyone for there support especially rachel (sparkles!!) and Roger and John - Ta guys!! yes it was absolutely magic, especially off number one! and a big thankyou to all the other bands and the organisers for letting us use our own diddy bass drum! cos our 2 little perc players (7 and 9) couldn't reach or even see over the one provided!! well it definately paid off!! thanks to everyone for their support and lovely comments :wink:

Seedhouse
22.09.2003, 11:47
What a weekend hey! :lol: First nationals, first contest with LE, got drawn 1st and came 2nd! :twisted:

Just wanted to thank Shaz (and Carl) for helping me do the best I could on the day, and all the encouragement they, and the band, gave me.(although I didn't think i'd get Star Player! :? Thanks for the congrats Ray, well done to C. Brass!)

All of the band's hard work has paid off, and I think we should do more partying Shaz! :wink:

Got Vizcaya to look forward to now, seems to heavily depend on the cornet section having listened to it! What about us Euphers!?

Congrats to all bands!

Alex

rickcowens
22.09.2003, 13:37
well done to wardle! told you would do it!!!

euphemism
22.09.2003, 14:28
Well done Long Eaton!!!
especially..........

- the tiddlers - who played like seasoned professionals well done - and sorry for being so hard ......
- the new guys in the band - Alex, Carol and Mark - who blended in and worked hard
- all the band for their commitment
- Shazzie - for being - well Shazzie really
- the organisers - and the party - well enough said on that one
- now do you believe me when UI told you it was good !!!!


Hard work paid off........

Oh Alex - Viscaya part on Wed - it'll keep you busy enough .........

rutty
22.09.2003, 15:31
Very well done Long Eaton! Good day for bands in or around Nottingham on the whole ;)

geordiecolin
22.09.2003, 15:40
Got Vizcaya to look forward to now, seems to heavily depend on the cornet section having listened to it! What about us Euphers

I seem to remember my old band doing very badly at the Nationals in the 4th Section a while back with Vizcaya, my sister and dad either played Euph or Bari for it, from all the ranting they did at the time, I don't think you'll be looking forward to it!!

euphemism
22.09.2003, 18:09
Played it and did well on Viscaya - can't remember if it was 4th section finals or 3rd section area some time ago - but with all Vinter music - there's plenty in there.

Time will tell !!!!

satchmo shaz
22.09.2003, 18:21
Very well done Long Eaton! Good day for bands in or around Nottingham on the whole ;) Yes a very good day, well done to Carlton!! too :wink:

groovy
22.09.2003, 22:47
I like Vizcaya, we've had a look at it!

Oh, and well done all..... :)

satchmo shaz
23.09.2003, 00:53
at the
Played it and did well on Viscaya - can't remember if it was 4th section finals or 3rd section area some time ago - but with all Vinter music - there's plenty in there.

Time will tell !!!! we did it in rd section finals carl and came 3rd with kirkby, I seem to remember............ could be wrong tho :wink:

andyh
24.09.2003, 19:57
My first post on this forum - just wanted to say well done to ALL the 4th section bands who competed at Dundee. I heard only winners there! We'd have liked to have done a little better than 16th but having reached the finals from only our second area contest, we're reasonably happy. We had a great weekend and hope to do well in the 3rd section next year!

Andy Hewett
Woodbridge Excelsior Band

Lotta
26.09.2003, 16:24
Like yourselves Andy, it was our first time at the Nationals from our second areas and we had a fantastic time... Isn't part of being in a band to enjoy yourself? We should all be proud to have been given the opportunity to go

Phoenix W. M Brass

:lol: :tup :bounce :bounce :bounce :tup :lol:

CORNISHMAN
26.09.2003, 19:51
My first post on this forum - just wanted to say well done to ALL the 4th section bands who competed at Dundee. I heard only winners there! We'd have liked to have done a little better than 16th but having reached the finals from only our second area contest, we're reasonably happy. We had a great weekend and hope to do well in the 3rd section next year!

Andy Hewett
Woobroodbridge Excelsior Band

CORNISHMAN
26.09.2003, 20:34
ANDY FROM WOODBRIGE. WERE YOU ONE OF THOSE AT THE PILLARS PUB BEFORE THE RESULTS? IF NOT, WHY NOT. US NUTTERS AT HAYLE GREATLY ENJOYED THE COMPANY OF 3 OF YOUR CREW AND WAS DISAPPOINTED THERE WERE NOT MORE TO MEET. GREAT TIME IN SCOTLAND THOUGH EVEN WITHOUT THE 12HR BUS TRIP (WITH NO VIDEO). AM I ALONE THOUGH IN THINKING THAT HARROWGATE FOR NEXT YEARS FINALS IS STILL HARDLY CENTRAL. WHAT ABOUT BRUM? REACHABLE IN A DAY TRIP FOR MOST BANDS EVEN US FROM THE EDGE OF CIVILISATION.

andyh
26.09.2003, 23:52
ANDY FROM WOODBRIGE. WERE YOU ONE OF THOSE AT THE PILLARS PUB BEFORE THE RESULTS? IF NOT, WHY NOT. US NUTTERS AT HAYLE GREATLY ENJOYED THE COMPANY OF 3 OF YOUR CREW AND WAS DISAPPOINTED THERE WERE NOT MORE TO MEET.

Ahhh - you've met the Excelsior Heavies :-) No, I wasn't one of that crew - being a Finals newbie I couldn't get enough of the atmosphere in Caird Hall. Well done on your result, too !

Andy

euphonium_john
30.09.2003, 11:19
Now don't get me wrong, many congratulations to the bands that came in the frame at Dundee. Well done everyone.

It's just that during the results I couldn't help but notice that there were quite a few people on stage and in the audience that seemed more than a little confused by the result.

I can't say I heard all the bands in the frame, - and while Wardle was one of the bands I missed I did hear many others. Trinity Girls was without doubt the best band, in my opinion, that I heard all day (including my own) but their result of fourth was a big surprise - especially having heard some of the bands placed above.

I am well aware that the results are just the 'musical' opnions of the adjudicators but I personally thought that there was a great deal of every bands performance ignored. Things like overall musical effect, full ensemble playing, style and control, full and appropriate use of dynamics and accurate, musical interpretations of the score etc.etc.

It seemed like the adjudicators were looking for a few specifics, therefore other aspects of the complete musical performance were, maybe, not given the attention and credit they deserved. Out of all the printed adjudications on 4BR there are whole sections of every performance missing.

This isn't sour grapes, I'm just interested in other opnions.....let me know what you think

Seedhouse
30.09.2003, 13:02
Firstly, what band did you play for? Where'd you come?

Because we came 2nd at the Nationals in the 4th Section, I thought that I would post my opinion on the matter, as I've read many posts on tMP about bands being upset with their results.

Many people looked baffled during the results at any contest, because everyone acts as their own independent adjudicator. Everyone has their favourites to win, but in the end it is down to the adjudicators in the box.

I myself was at the Nationals for the first time, and playing there with Long Eaton was a great experience for me. After we'd played from being drawn first, I actually sat and listened to about 15/16 of the bands on the day because a) I like brass banding, and b) I like to see how other bands played the test piece.

From listening to most of the bands, I found some common "errors," in my personal "adjudication mode!" Lots of the bands ignored most of the tempo markings. The main areas of this were the beginning: where most bands took it too slowly, with no rubato. The animato, where no bands acceled like animato means to do, and also (to my suprise :shock: ) some bands took the prayer section too fast!

I must say that I heard Trinity Girls, and I personally thought that they deserved to do better than they did BUT they also did some of the errors as I mentioned above.

The results, in my opinion, were fair. The adjudicator's clearly made the fact that most bands took some tempo's too fast/ slow, and this was their downfall in their final positions. Were you there to hear what they said at the end?

In the end (in my opinion) it is not the things that the band play well that give them their final position, it is the things that they play wrong. A band could play lots of things well, but fall down by playing the important sections of the piece in an incorrect style.

Eric Ball was a very talented composer, and he knew EXACTLY the effects he wanted to achieve when he wrote/ composed his music, if the band's competing ignored what he had written within his music, they were bound not to do well at the contest, as I think his music is very specific in how it needs to be played.

Even if a band played well with its dynamics, balance etc. If they aren't achieving the effect that is needed for the music to come to life, so to say,
they aren't going to gain marks.

Last year, although I wasn't playing for LE at the time, when they went to the National Finals, they played the music musically not technically, and they came 18th out of 21 bands. This shows that the adjudicators do look for certain styles.

On 4Barsrest, yes there are whole sections missing, but the adjudicators were looking at the important sections, and even the 4Barsrest adjudicators didn't write that much either. For instance there is no point in writing about things that are repeated in the piece over and over again. If when they occured, they are played well.

I don't mean to sound horrible, i'm only 16 and giving my opinion on the matter. If I have caused any offence to anyone, I apologise, but you must understand that the adjudicators knew exactly what they were looking for.
If they didn't find it, then that certain band won't have done well.

Most importantly, like the adjudicators said, you should remember that by qualifying for the Nationals you are the top bands for your sections in your area. Performing at the Nationals is just a bonus, and a new experience for us banders if we haven't been before.

Thus ends my incredibly long post!! (Apologies to the moderators for my long post, and once again apologies if I have caused any offence)

yorkyboy
30.09.2003, 14:56
From listening to most of the bands, I found some common "errors," in my personal "adjudication mode!" Lots of the bands ignored most of the tempo markings. The main areas of this were the beginning: where most bands took it too slowly, with no rubato. The animato, where no bands acceled like animato means to do, and also (to my suprise :shock: ) some bands took the prayer section too fast!




Animato means to accel??? Not sure where you got that defination. Animato means to play lively and in a 'animated' style

euphonium_john
30.09.2003, 15:04
Not wanting to be pendantic, but I would say 'becoming more lively and quicker therefore'.

Or is the meaning of musical terms subject to interpretation??

A little like the Andante and the beginning of the piece, also marked 69 bpm - it's at this point I begin to question the adjudicators, so I'd better stop now................

yorkyboy
30.09.2003, 15:27
Animato -(Italian, meaning 'animated') Lively.

SammyT
30.09.2003, 18:12
Here here Seedhouse!
I totally agree with alex, and not just because we are in the same band!. One of the top conductors in the country once said that it is easy to play the notes but a lot harder to play the music and that is what the adjudicators were looking for.
Reading the comments from the adjudicators on 4BR it is clear that the top two bands were a lot better than the rest (in their opinion). We were 3 points ahead of the 3rd place band (I am not bragging!) so we must of done something right, it is really taking a shine off our performance and the best achievement of the band since the 1920's by people constantly saying that other bands should have been higher - what about those of us who were higher! I would like to here from people who heared us, we played 1st so there were not that many in the room!
The remarks about trinity and the others (soz to trinity for mentioning by name) gave comments about tempo's not quite right and dynamics a bit harsh! They may have played technically correct most of the time but what about the MUSIC - that is what we are playing surely. Musicality is important.

The results are the results, that is what the adjudicators thought - end of story, as it is their decision.
Please just accept the result and remember just because the band you heard played well does not mean that there is not other bands which played better.
It is taking the shine of the whole weekend for me as it feels that people think that we should not have come second and wardle should not have come first!
I was just happy to play and enjoy the weekend - 2nd made it that little bit more special
Sorry RANT over :oops:

laura(cornet)kendall
30.09.2003, 19:17
I am only 17 and have been banding for 8 years and most of you probably think i'm too young to know what i'm talking about. But before i start i would like to say well done to those band that did well in Dundee.

I have been at contest where we have come last and contest when we have won, and i would just like to say one thing, it is really disheartening when you reherse so hard and you don't do well at a contest and the last thing you need is a band that has won a prize rubbing your nose in it. You must have won a prize before to be able to have gone to Dundee and just like we were I bet you were overjoyed when you heard you were going. But just think of the bands that came below you in both contests, just think how much work every band puts in every week and most of all just think off SPORTSMAMSHIP. :x

I know this isn't football or whatever but it is just as important and ignoring the fact that it is brilliant when you do win, just think of other bands rather than just yourselves.

Thanks for reading this and I think I have just proved that I am more than just a kid.

Laura (Solo Cornet) Kendall

Max
30.09.2003, 19:19
Whilst we are on the subject of musical interpretation - at the top of the score for "Call of the Sea" I notice it says CIRCA 69 bpm. Circa in my understanding means ABOUT. Or can this be interpreted as EXACTLY?

I recall our remarks commented on the tempo we began at being too slow, yet when listening to the CD the tempo is Circa 69 BPM.

So........ what do you do? Play it as writ and lose points for it OR play it as you interpret it and still lose points?

Max
30.09.2003, 19:23
Seedhouse says you came second becasue you played the piece in a technical way. Bari is saying you came second because you observed the musical niceties. Can you make your minds up and get back to us please.

We need to know what to do for our next contest.

SammyT
30.09.2003, 20:02
Well.....
we obviously did both but this makes me sound big headed
I did not intened to RUB anybodys nose in anything :evil:
Long Eaton know more than anyone what it is like to come low down - it is only during the last few years we have really done well after spending many years languishing in the bottom of the 4th section at the areas!!
WE came 18th :!: last year at the nationals so I know how it feels!!!
I commented and I guess seedhouse did also (I have not spoken too him!) because everybody was saying that all these other bands played better than their results showed - I do not disagree with the comments - but most of the commenters forgot to think about those off us who did well - For the 1st time since the 1920's - at the finals!!!
On the day it is just down to two peoples opinions and somehow we managed to get it right - we have not for years and years
I am amongst many who belive we are all winners for just getting there!!!!!

Seedhouse
30.09.2003, 20:13
Hello again! I see this topic is beginning to get a tad heated! :?
Apologies to people complaining about my Animato description, I wrote that post in quite a hurry because I was in school, and began writing it 10 mins before my free period ended.

My Animato definition, would be "with movement" alot of the bands played that section very straight, and did not move it on, which would have lost them points in my opinion.

Max, I did not say that we played the piece technically, I was saying that last year at the Finals, Long Eaton played the test piece musically, when they (the adjudicators) were looking for technicallity. Whilst this year, the test piece was very musical not technical.

Every year the adjudicators will probably look for something different, and last year they were looking for technicallity so LE fell down then.

This year they played musically which was what the adjudicators were looking for, so we did well.

In terms of what you need to do for your next contest Max, is see whether your test piece is more technical or musical, and make sure you do what is within the music, all the tempo's and dynamics etc.

In terms of circa 69, you probably did it at the right speed, but just didn't add any rubato within it.

I feel very lucky to be playing under an MD, that really inspires me and the band to do the best we can, and who can interpret pieces very well.

Anyway i'm not an expert, i'm 16. I'm not even an MD, i'm a Euph player! As I said in my last post i'm just giving my opinion.

euphonium_john
30.09.2003, 20:17
It would appear that I may have given the wrong impression with my earlier post.

I wasn't by any stretch of my imagination wanting to belittle the bands that did well. I completely agree that it's down to the adjudicators interpretation, and that their decision is final. The winning bands deserve it!

All I wanted to know is what other people think - not only the winners, but those who didn't do as well as they expected.

It would be better to have an interesting discussion. I didn't want a defensive battle of words to develop.

Speaking personally, it's all about the music. That's what's important. As long as you go there and play the piece in the way you choose, and play it well, you've won.
The technical aspects of a piece are important. We played the piece, in mind mind, correctly, however more important than that it was musical - and special - that's the key.

So hey, we didn't get a result this time. That's no problem because we did what we set out to do and nobody can take that away from us. Other bands did it differently, that's great too, because if everything was the same music would be awful. It wouldn't be music at all.

I'm not at all bitter, infact I'm very proud of what we achieved - and we have a recording to prove it. As I said before, I'm just interested to know what other people think.

SammyT
30.09.2003, 20:30
Speaking personally, it's all about the music. That's what's important. As long as you go there and play the piece in the way you choose, and play it well, you've won.

So hey, we didn't get a result this time. That's no problem because we did what we set out to do and nobody can take that away from us. Other bands did it differently, that's great too, because if everything was the same music would be awful. It wouldn't be music at all.

I'm not at all bitter, infact I'm very proud of what we achieved - and we have a recording to prove it. As I said before, I'm just interested to know what other people think.

Exactly :D
Well done to Euphonium John and your band that is the main thing, and to everybody who competed your all winners!!!
we just went out to enjoy ourselves and boy did we (before the results as well) it just added a little shine to an excellent weekend - which we also had last year when we came 18th!
No hard feelings at all :D :D :D

mcfester
01.10.2003, 00:45
What people must realise that at the end of the day contesting is about trying to do your best and win, but most importantly its the taking part as a team. Plus it's only one man's(or two as the case may be) decision, so whether you win or lose as long as you did your best thats what counts. All in all your all winners, otherwise you would not have been there at the finals. Just keep blowing hard and listen to the man/woman in the middle.

Roger Thorne
01.10.2003, 01:50
Well said Mcfester and welcome to The Mouthpiece.com

:wink:

Max
01.10.2003, 11:46
Any band that goes on a contest stage and plays as well as it can do deserves congratulations whatever the result. I would imagine one of the aims of contesting is to improve the standard of banding. This is where the question of adjudication arises. I noticed that the 4th section band who came 2nd in Dundee merited only 7 (SEVEN) sentences worth of comments from one adjudicator (sorry I didn't count the words). Bearing in mind the piece was around 10 mins long and some of the sentences are only three words long. What was he doing for the rest of the performance? Surely the amount of work involved in taking part in any contest merits a reasonable adjudication report - even if it does contain more criticisms - at least we would know what we needed to put right!

Seedhouse
01.10.2003, 13:01
I noticed that the 4th section band who came 2nd in Dundee merited only 7 (SEVEN) sentences worth of comments from one adjudicator (sorry I didn't count the words).

I am actually feeling very disheartened as you seem to be criticising the fact that we came 2nd when we got 7 lines. We put a lot of hard work into learning the test piece, and this thread just seems to be repeat criticisms of our placing. If the moderators are reading this I hope you understand, as I hope other band members do as well.

It doesn't make a difference how many lines you've got in your adjudication. You make it seem like the more you've got written, the worse a position you'll get.

I'm a 16 year old player, and playing at the Nationals was a great experience for me especially on solo euphonium for LE, and all these criticisms are actually ruining the fact we did so well.

I don't know what you think adjudicators are supposed to do, but they don't write things down for every single note of the piece. Their comments are supposed to be a general overview of how the piece was played, NOT a note by note account.

I don't know where you got the 7 line thing from (was it 4barsrest?), if so, they are an independent online brass band magazine that is providing their view on how bands played. THEY ARE NOT OFFICIAL ADJUDICATORS! You cannot expect them to be writing full accounts of each band, when they constantly have to update their site every 5 mins at the contests.

Apologies if my post has seen to be offensive, but this is really taking a shine of how well we as a band, and team, did.

Seedhouse
01.10.2003, 13:04
And another thing, I don't see why everyone seems to be posting such abusive messages. If LE hadn't done as well as we'd hoped at the nationals, we would just carry on. We wouldn't dwell on the fact that we hadn't done so well. We would just be determined to get back on track for the next contest.
As around 5 people and myself on this thread have said before, IT IS THE TAKING PART THAT COUNTS. We were all winners at the Nationals from being qualified to go there from winning our areas.

3rd lecture over...

euphonium_john
01.10.2003, 13:18
Not wanting to be controversial, but is there anyone around who has an opinion about this contest, other than those who came 2nd?

I was hoping for a broad discussion with many different opinions, constructive criticsm and entertaining banter.

It would be great if we could hear from other members of different bands and the audience.
Were the adjudicators correct in your opinon?
What impressed you?
What dissapointed you?
What can we learn from it?


No more of this we were robbed, or we won- so there, business -

Chill! :lol:

Seedhouse
01.10.2003, 14:03
I'm sorry for seeming quite angry, but you must understand for the bands that did do well, for other bands to complain about it, it is quite upsetting.
I would like to hear other peoples opinions as well, so if there are any other tMPers who were there, please post!
Apologies once again.

yorkyboy
01.10.2003, 14:53
I'm sorry for seeming quite angry, but you must understand for the bands that did do well, for other bands to complain about it, it is quite upsetting.
I would like to hear other peoples opinions as well, so if there are any other tMPers who were there, please post!
Apologies once again.

Dont worry about it. People are always going to disagree with results and make unecessary comments regarding the results. At the end of the day you did well and when people look back at the contest they cant take your position away from you so be proud of it and ignore those that cant accept the result. Music is subjective and everyone has a different opinion but the only opinions that matter are the two adjudicators on the day. People can discuss it till the cows come home but it wont change the result!

manx_yessir
01.10.2003, 14:56
Well put Seedhouse.

If anyone can't accept an adjudacators decision then is contesting really for you? Just because some may feel they were 'robbed' of a placing, doesn't mean that they should belittle the acheivements of bands above them. It's one (or two) people's opinion. All the bands that reached the finals should feel proud of themselves just for getting there.
If my band get to the finals next year, that will be a big enough achievement for me. Playing as a team, enjoying yourself and entertaing others surely counts more than a trophy!

Max
01.10.2003, 15:24
Sorry Seedhouse you seem to have readly wrongly my comments on the seven sentence adjudication. If it makes you feel any better my band did not get much different. I took it from the "official" adjudication reports from 4BR - rightly or wrongly this suggests that the comments posted on 4BR are the ones you received from the adjudicators?

I was trying to suggest that given the time and energy expended in getting to Dundee (and indeed every other contest), and putting on a good performance we might be entitled to expect a little more in the way of comments/suggestions about the performance from the adjudicators.

Our comments are very ambiguous indeed - in all honesty one set could relate to almost any band that played in the 4th section.

[/quote]

roman
01.10.2003, 15:59
When all is said and done, trying to judge a contest, even when every band plays the same piece, is asking a lot of anyone. Adjudicators are only human after all and the best that we can hope for is that they apply the same criteria to every band they listen to. We have all been in situations where we think that our performance should have been given more recognition from the box than it has .... and (a lot less often) sometimes find ourselves in the prizes when we really didn't deserve it.

Having said that, I think that there should be a public discussion about the judging in contests.

The set up in Dundee with two adjudicators would on the face of it help to guarantee a fairer result - after all two heads are better than one aren't they ? Well ... perhaps. If we have 2 adjudicators wouldn't it be better to have them in seperate boxes so that we can get 2 totally independent views of a performance. I am sure the judges at Dundee would immediately howl that they were not influenced by one another ... but keeping them apart would make a lot more sense and keep the conspiracy theorists quiet. It couldn't cost that much to arrange - if they had asked I am sure I could have supplied a bit of hardboard and a sand filled bucket for them.

The criteria that we get judged on should also be looked at. The NWBBA adjudication sheets have a set of checkboxes printed on the bottom and is divided into areas such as tuning, dynamics etc etc with possibilities ranging from poor to excellent - a bit rough and ready I suppose but at least it gives a band an indication of which parts of their performance affected the marks most. Maybe its time to have bands marked on aspects of their performance in each area - say marks out 50 for balance, tuning, dynamics, overall sound, soloists and musical interpretation.

And lastly - musicality. As principal cornet player for a band that was slated for a slow opening (it wasn't by the way - as near to 69 as makes no difference on the recording) I suppose I might have an axe to grind in this area. My orchestral friends are always slightly bemused by the thought of 21 bands trying to produce the same 'perfect' performance. Where's the room for artistic license and interpretation ? The markings on the copy are there to help you to recreate the music that was in the composers head at the time that he wrote it. Tempo markings are only a small part of this (particularly with Eric Ball) and a good composer will write other comments on the score to help you on the way .... what does dreaming sound like ? ... well mine are usually slow and soft - well under 69 beats per minute - unless I have been drinking that Red Bull again when they go to 96+. So what happens if you want to express the rubric by taking a little license with the tempo ? Tricky !

A piece of written music is only a road map - its up to each band (and player) to make the musical journey. Every performance should be an individual living entity - each one different with its own subtle shifts of mood and atmosphere. Every time we play a piece we should be able to find something new to say - else why bother doing it ?

How do we judge musicality .... thats a hard one. Perhaps we shouldn't - just stick to the technical details (which seems to be the Dundee approach). After all my moving playing performance could well be your dull and dreary listening experience.

And finally. If you came away with a cup - congratulations ! Even if your band didn't add any silverware to the bandroom collection you will have gained a lot in experience. It is noticeable in our band that the hard work we put in to prepare for a contest (usually) pays dividends in the sound we make together afterwards. Theres always the area contest to look forward to.

euphemism
02.10.2003, 09:10
Not wanting to be controversial, but is there anyone around who has an opinion about this contest, other than those who came 2nd?

I was hoping for a broad discussion with many different opinions, constructive criticsm and entertaining banter.

It would be great if we could hear from other members of different bands and the audience.
Were the adjudicators correct in your opinon?
What impressed you?
What dissapointed you?
What can we learn from it?


No more of this we were robbed, or we won- so there, business -

Chill! :lol:

I used to play in LE - but have moved on to another band....

I listened to a number of bands on the day - and wanted to let LE how I thought they played objectively especially as the previous year they/we were disappointed with the result ........

Unfortunately I didn't hear Wardle - but of the ones I heard the top6 or so would have included

Phoenix
Grange Moor
Trinity
Lockwood
Harlech
Long Eaton

obviously Wardle would have been if I had heard them - I heard a lot of people say how well they did....but also a few who said they didn't like their performance.

Having commented already on this - there were bands who played technically superior performances but musically there was not enough flow to the piece...other bands who had more musicality but there were a few more intonation problems - I think every band had some intonation - and the adjudicators comments shown on 4BR bear this out...

I wouldn't necessarily have put the bands in the same order - and being critical I wouldn't have put LE first either.... my opinion - which wasn't far off the adjudicators - but was similar.

The remarks do say some interesting comments - a couple of the bands are told that they clearly took too many liberties with tempos - and this is the area where the contest was won/lost - and I agree. Some of the performances lost the flow of the music.

I enjoyed listening to the bands - and contesting is about highs and lows - the results are opinions - which we may chose to agree/diagree with - but that is the name of the game

Every band that went will have gone away a better band for the efforts put in - and I think most of the bands will be up in the 3rd section - next year ot the year after

So - hope that answers questions from an 'almost' independent view.

Max
02.10.2003, 10:46
The problem appears to be with adjudication rather than the bands competing.

When we go to a contest we do not know what the adjudicator wants to hear - does he want a technical robotic performance or does he want a flowing emotional musical interpretation? How many times have you heard the adjudicator stand up and say he was looking for exactly the opposite of what you just played?

Music is subjective to interpretation. Just because your performance did not match the adjudicators interpretation surely does not mean that you were wrong and he was right?

Perhaps we should follow the lead of the organisers of the Scottish Open and issue a statement from the adjudicators giving a rough idea of what they are expecting to hear. At least every band can go on stage at least knowing that they have prepared the piece along the reight lines, whether they win or lose.

The element of luck involved is currently too high for my liking. Perhaps we should be investigating ways to reduce it, thus ensuring success for the best.

euphemism
02.10.2003, 13:45
Whatever system of adjudicating is suggested always has flaws.....

the Masters - 3 adjudicators in 3 separate boxes - 2 agreed and 1 had a very different view....

The Open - 3 adjudicators - working together

Mineworkers - Open adjudication

Area contests - 1 adjudicator - decides your fate in 20 minutes or so .... apart from Yorkshire Championship - which now has 2....wonder why that was....

Finals - have 2 adjudicators - who work together.

We are not alone in this problem - many sports - where there is subjectivity -from boxing to ice skating/diving - all have differences of opinions on who is best etc. and how to prove that through various scoring systems. On a lighter note - imagine a boxing match with closed adjudication !!!

There is no perfect answer (I can't think of one - and many better minds than me before have not come up with one - debated long and hard in many a bandroom, contest hall, 4BR - and even on here) - all we can hope is that the adjudicators are qualified and can quantify (within reason) in their remarks and summing up who was where and why.

Max
02.10.2003, 17:24
I believe - rightly or wrongly that in Austrailia contest performances are recorded along with adjudicator speaking over them. This also applies to wind band contests in this country. I don't know if this would make any difference but it could be worth a go.

On the sporting theme it is comforting to note that it is the best that win most of the time.

I would also agree that adjudicators should be qualified. How about licensed on a two or three year term with renewal subject to them proving themselves still competent?

It has been the accepted norm for too long that contest results are often unfair because that is the way contesting is. To me that is not an acceptable excuse for not trying new methods of adjudication whether they work or not, we will never know if no one is brave enough to try new ideas.

stephen2001
02.10.2003, 20:49
The National Concert Band Festival contests have 2 adjudicators, one who writes and one who speaks into a dictaphone.
It is good to listen back and hear what the adjudicator has to say, and where it fits in with the piece, but unless there is a big mistake from within the band, you cannot hear if the comments are just or not, as the sound quality of the bad is very poor.
I have to admit, I do like that system though, but it is relitavley expensive, due to having to have all the audio-cassettes for each band!

Moy
02.10.2003, 21:09
Whatever we decide to do, adjudicator wise, we will never please everyone, unfortunately.

Chainsaw Nick
03.10.2003, 10:44
I am pleased to see that the dabate has finally broadened to include views about contests and adjudicators in general...it least it doesn't read like a private chatroom for Long Eaton anymore - hey we all know how to celebrate - use mobiles and keep it to yourself guys. It's not the sour grapes it's knowing how to behave when you win that counts.

If the shine is going off the weekend just look at the tone of your own messages and then decide who has set who up!! Pride before a fall and all that...

I have to agree with some of the other comments - it is the music that counts. If there is no credit for that and we only have to second guess what is in someone elses head then it is the music and creativity that will suffer. This is still possible within the confines of the score - although not accordinging to some of the very limited comments (written and verbal) made by the adjudicators - men with great reputations but with little to evidence it on their showing in Dundee.

Finally did anyone else see a conductor with a 4th section band (possibly from Yorkshire) who may have adjudicated a later section with the 4th section adjudicators after the draw but before band number one played? I know at least 3 people who did. Obviously nothing underhand went on but it does put people in a difficult position when the whole purpose of the draw and boxes etc is to maintain secrecy for all. Just a thought

O

Bones
03.10.2003, 12:19
Whilst we are on the subject of musical interpretation - at the top of the score for "Call of the Sea" I notice it says CIRCA 69 bpm. Circa in my understanding means ABOUT. Or can this be interpreted as EXACTLY?

I recall our remarks commented on the tempo we began at being too slow, yet when listening to the CD the tempo is Circa 69 BPM.

So........ what do you do? Play it as writ and lose points for it OR play it as you interpret it and still lose points?

We'll never know. At this years Masters, the tempo markings are clearly written with circa. With that description one would think you are allowed some licence. We took that approach, and unfortunately one adjudicator clearly said this band did not adhere to the composers tempi. Well If the composer writes Circa, to my mind he clearly didn't have a strict tempi.

One man's meat is another's man's poison I think

euphonium_john
03.10.2003, 13:13
Or should it be, 'One Man's beat is another man's poison' !?

PeterBale
03.10.2003, 13:32
Or even, as the French say:"One man's meat is another man's poisson" :lol:

euphonium_john
03.10.2003, 14:33
Anyway, back to the plot.......


I'm still interested to know what people who listened to some bands thought about the performances

What impressed you? what didn't you like? What interpretations did you enjoy?

Do you think using towels and dusters is a good idea?

Euph mutes?

Standing up and scaring the audience?

Interesting band formations and the effect on sound?


Good conductors, bad conductors?

Good Players, bad players, amusing players, (cute players?)

I'm am keen to hear from a broad spectrum of the audience, so that I can build up a picture in my head in terms of what an audience that listens to performances likes to hear. It may affect the way I approach interpreting a piece (although those who know me know it won't!)

There's so much to discuss!! But let's not descend into another slanging match, kids?

SammyT
03.10.2003, 18:52
I am pleased to see that the dabate has finally broadened to include views about contests and adjudicators in general...it least it doesn't read like a private chatroom for Long Eaton anymore -

Well I am sorry :!: for being allowed to voice my opinion :shock: :shock: in an open forum about banding - it would be boring if we all thought the same :evil: :cry: :cry: :cry:


edited for typo reasons

IanHeard
03.10.2003, 22:58
I think we are guilty sometimes of trying to convince ourselves that contesting is an exact science, it is not and hopefully never will be.
It is purely subjective and thank god for that, the day an adjudicator decides who wins by the use of tick boxes etc then I`m off!
We all know the inherent weaknesses in musical competition ,lets accept them and enjoy it anyway.
There also seems to be growing trend of lessening the achievements of other bands, if only to mask the disappointment in their own efforts (this thread is proof of that!).
My own band came a creditable sixth place at last years finals, only for someone from Arbroath Band to take the time and effort to contact 4barsrest and claim that we played so badly and that they played so well that there must have been a mix-up in the paperwork! (by the way she did`nt actually hear us play!)
Ian H
Soundhouse Brass.

SammyT
04.10.2003, 11:49
Thanks Kirmat :D :D
That is exactly what I am upset about!
I am sorry about my last post - I had a bad day at school :(
I really do not want this forum to turn into a slanging match. LE players do not want to belittle any other band, we are a very friendly band :D :D.
My comments here are just my views and I have tried to be as objective as possible - I have not deliberatly put down other bands and celebrate their achievements of getting to the finals. The reason their is so many comments on here from LE people is because their are a few of us who are addicted to the forum and care passiontly about banding and what I belive in
I am very sorry :oops: if any body has been offended (Sorry John, Roger and the other moderators too if my posts have been harsh - I don't think they have been :oops: :? )

James McFadyen
04.10.2003, 12:53
SammyT, I Know exactly what you mean! :lol:

Some of my posts have cut people a bit too close to the bone and I know how easy it is to get 'roiled-up' in something you believe in but like you said this is supposed to be an open forum.

Max
05.10.2003, 13:57
[quote="kirmat"]I think we are guilty sometimes of trying to convince ourselves that contesting is an exact science, it is not and hopefully never will be.

I agree that contesting is not an exact science but I don't agree with the rest of the quote. In my opinion contesting should be as exact as possible - of course allowing for musical interpretation.

How many other competitive events do we see where it is not certain that the best competitor will win? Imagine a referee giving his opinion. "X team scored 3 goals but I did like the way the style used by the golakeeper for Y team when letting the ball in - therefore I award the three points to Y team!"

I will not be satisfied until we have a situation where the best band wins - be it my band or not it doesn't matter.

Bigchap
05.10.2003, 20:33
Having been away for a few days, I'm surprised to see that this thread is still running. We have a saying in our band if someone (from within or outside) suggests we was robbed, you were lucky etc etc and that is:
"If you don't believe the result look in the Bandsman on Thursday." Whether we like it or not the only people who matter (and will ever matter) are the adjudicators and in substance we will never change that.
The previous poster talked about the need to be "exact" and to get the decision right, but you will only ever have the decision that is right in the view of the adjudicator(s). In 20 years of going to contests I can only recall a handful of occasions where the concensus in the hall has favoured one particular band to win (Faireys on Masquerade at the Open comes to mind).
I would prefer a system where adjudicators were graded (like football or rugby referees) and could only adjudicate in contests if they had reached the appropriate grade.
At all major contests they would be assessed by assessors appointed by the movement's authorities. Not on whether they are right or wrong (which is impossible to say) but, for example, on:
i. Whether their remarks are consistent with the placings. It helps no one to give a band totally positive remarks and then place them last out of 20 bands.
ii. Whether their remarks are overly rigid. It is unacceptable to criticise a band for being too loud in the first bar (how do you know?) or say they play too fast when they play slightly over the markings.
iii. The criteria on which they have judged the piece. It is unacceptable for an adjudicator to stand up at the end of the contest and say he judged the contest on the slow movement or the horn solo or whatever, it must be judged on the whole.
If the system was introduced fairly and impartially, good new adjudicators would rise to the top and poor ones would drift out. But the result would still rest with the personal view of the adjudicator.
Having said that, if the current system was so awful, the 4BR and BBW rankings would not show bands roughly in the right order. Also, bands such as Pennine, Harrogate and Sovereign, Leyland and Kennedy Swinton before them would not have risen to the top.
If anyone can currently point to a 3rd or 4th section band who should be in the 1st or Champ section but they are constantly being blighted by contest adjudicators, I'll eat my hat (or something like that).
Rant over.
See you all at Pontins.


Big Chap

Straightmute
06.10.2003, 01:14
I think we are guilty sometimes of trying to convince ourselves that contesting is an exact science, it is not and hopefully never will be.

I agree that contesting is not an exact science but I don't agree with the rest of the quote. In my opinion contesting should be as exact as possible - of course allowing for musical interpretation.

How many other competitive events do we see where it is not certain that the best competitor will win? Imagine a referee giving his opinion. "X team scored 3 goals but I did like the way the style used by the golakeeper for Y team when letting the ball in - therefore I award the three points to Y team!"

But the difference between football and band contests, as you have already pointed out, is the lack of an agreed method of measurement. Goals decide the results of football matches but a great number of complex and subjective factors decide the result of contests.


I will not be satisfied until we have a situation where the best band wins - be it my band or not it doesn't matter.

But surely it should be the best performance on the day and not necessarily the best band which takes home the prize.

D

Max
06.10.2003, 10:12
I probably should have said best performance on the day - not the best band. Sorry.

Perhaps we should be trying to come up with an agreed method of measurement. I agree and understand that music is subjective and open to interpretation by at least three different parties - the adjudicator, the band and the audience.

It is difficult I know to talk about possible changes to methods of adjudication etc, but one pf the problems seems to be that no one in a position to do so is willing to try anything new. If we don't try new things then we will never know if the present system can be improved. At least if we try different things we can then say been there, done that, didn't work and begin to accept that the present system is (for all its faults) the best we are going to get.

PeterBale
06.10.2003, 10:32
How many other competitive events do we see where it is not certain that the best competitor will win? Imagine a referee giving his opinion. "X team scored 3 goals but I did like the way the style used by the golakeeper for Y team when letting the ball in - therefore I award the three points to Y team!"

Boxing is one that springs to mind, where the awarding of points seems sometimes to be a very subjective thing, and you often end up with a disputed decision.

Chainsaw Nick
08.10.2003, 14:51
Continuing the debate on adjudicators - it seems to me that it is important that contests try and drag themselves into the modern era. As in all areas of life expectations are now higher and everyone should be accountable for their actions.
We are told that standards are higher but the methods used to judge seem to be from the dark ages or at least from the unquestioning Victorian autocrat approach that seems to exist still today.
Why not have the comments and SCORES handed in after every band so that there is no chance of the remark sheets being shuffled later on or even (dare I say) scores put on at the end.

The time has come for a sensible debate on how to make it fairer and more in keeping with the times.

Excellent comments Max I agree with everything you say.

I see you are from Lancashire - did you catch the Fleetwood contest? I heard some very musical playing especially in the 3rd section. :lol:

Come on Seedhouse long time no hear. :shock:

Max
08.10.2003, 15:38
Unfortunatley I was away Fleetwood weekend, so i didn't manage to hear anyone.

I have heard that Nelson put on a good show for their first contest in the thrid section?

Moving back to adjudicators - I agree with Chainsaw (or should it be hacksaw?) Nick. There must be ways of making people more accountable for their decisions. The results I have seen from one adjudicator in particular from Dundee are completly unacceptable.

It is time we stopped the "thats contesting for you" attitude. Just because the present system is old does not mean that it is good. How about an "ask the audience" vote as well?

On another note refering to an earlier post - I also heard about the conductor who may or may not have had a chat with the adjudicators of his section after the draw had been made. Of course nothing untoward happened? But it does make you wonder.

euphonium_john
08.10.2003, 16:15
It all get's back to another debate - and that is what qualifies someone to be an adjudicator.

I've also heard that one of the 4th section adjudicators is fairly deaf.

I was also at the Fleetwood contest last weekend, I heard the third section and the winners, Nelson, actually played Call of the Sea. (you would think that they would be sick of it by now)

The adjudicator actually commented on how 'musical' the performance was. Well, that says it all for me, it's about MUSIC isn't it?
That's the sort of angle of adjudicating I would subscribe to. Well done to Nelson for sticking to their guns - I'm glad it paid off for them this time.

Naomi McFadyen
08.10.2003, 16:24
It is time we stopped the "thats contesting for you" attitude

nope.... cos that's what contesting is all about.
That's contesting for ya ;-)

monkey
08.10.2003, 21:42
Well done to the last comments from Max and John (at last voices of reason) - I was at Fleetwood to hear the better bands and ended up in the 3rd section as I arrived early. I was amazed by the high standard especially the musicality of the winning performance - well done to Nelson I think - the cheering was so loud it was hard to hear the name. If it was them I believe they have only just come up from 4th section and then won a third section contest :P

Excellent comments from the Adjudicator for mentioning the music and not just the wording on the score - a breath of fresh air compared to Dundee. I can compare as I have read the official adjudicator comments shown on 4BR. :lol:

Keep up the good work everyone and long live banding.

Seedhouse
08.10.2003, 23:30
Come on Seedhouse long time no hear. :shock:

Why are you so desperate for me to post?? :?

Chainsaw Nick
09.10.2003, 10:10
Seedhouse

It's just that having been so active it has all gone quiet. I look forward to your well considered and balanced views.

Monkey
I agree totally - we must have been at Fleetwood at the same time to hear the results of the 3rd section - what a coincidence.

Aidan
09.10.2003, 10:14
wooohoooooo SEEDHOUSE!!!!11!!111!11!! :lol: :wink:

Max
09.10.2003, 10:51
Obviously Seedhouse bsuy with other things - like homework!!

Seedhouse
09.10.2003, 11:29
Chainsaw Nick
It's just that having been so active it has all gone quiet. I look forward to your well considered and balanced views.

Erm, am I detecting sarcasm??

Nadia
wooohoooooo SEEDHOUSE!!!!11!!111!11!! :lol: :wink:

More sarcasm??? (but fairly amusing none the less!)

:? If not then i'll post, but I think you guys are being sarcastic. Hard to tell when you read things. Or are you guys really wanting me to post another novel??? :lol:

Chainsaw Nick
09.10.2003, 12:15
I wrote that post in quite a hurry because I was in school, and began writing it 10 mins before my free period ended.

I have just scanned through the previous "posts" to see if I was being sarcastic (I can assure you I was not) when I noticed the above sentence from Seedhouse.

Just thought I should ask whether publically funded eductional resource facilities are being used for private and non-educational uses.

Obviously I am not hinting at any impropriaty it is just that as a Council Tax payer this does concern me as I am sure it does others.

Back to business - we still need to think about how to get this judging system into the 21st century - comments please.

I am sure Bands complain about results all the time so how about practical solutions that can be suggested to the powers that be - nothing will change unless we want it to.

Looking ahead to 2004 how about the third section piece - has anyone spotted the traps yet or tried to get into the heads of the adjudicators to see what they will be listening for or is it the music that not only counts but will win through?

Seedhouse
09.10.2003, 12:43
I can ensure that they are being used for educational purposes, but when I don't have any work to do I generally go on the internet- i.e. post on tMP. Obviously there will be a few "rebels" within the school who use computers entirely for leisure and uneducational things, but they are only in minority here. No need to worry!

As with Vizcaya and adjudication, I find that every adjudicator looks for different things. We can never expect to have the result that we ourselves think we deserve, as we never know what they are looking for.

If we prepare the piece well, learn it well- every nook and cranny, we can hope to do well. But by ignoring significant parts of the piece such as dynamics, tempi etc, we can be expected to not do so well in contests.

In the end I find it may be down to each bands MD's direction, level of commitment to banding, and home practice that gets them the results they want.

For example if you have a band that contains half the band that chooses to turn up for rehearsals only twice a month, when preparing for a contest this could be the band's downfall. Where as a band that commits itself and turns up to rehearsals before contests, unless they are ill or for serious personal reasons, then the band is bound to do well.

I suppose this is obvious, but I have sat in a bandroom where only half of the players used to turn up. For me this was disheartening, I wanted to do well at the contest- put 110% effort into learning my part, but half of the band weren't as commited as I was, and we did badly at the contest. If you are in a bandroom like that, you have to decide to yourself- am I here for leisure/ enjoyment, or am I here for doing well. If you find you are in the wrong environment within the band, then you must move. But it is the entire band's attitude that will determine how well you do. For banding is team work, not one player can determine how well the band does.

Thus a very long post endeth! I have babbled on a bit, and I know not all of it is relevant, but I'm sure there are some key points within it.
I think we should start another post on Vizcaya, - as i'm about to do. Keep your eyes open for it if you want to discuss about it :shock: :lol:

Max
09.10.2003, 13:43
You speak with a lot of authority for one so young!

About starting a Vizcaya post. I can't actually believe that people have started looking at it, nearly six months before the areas. Do you not think it might have gone off the boil a bit by March?

Seedhouse
09.10.2003, 13:57
We haven't started it in depth, just played it through, but people may be interested to talk about it if they have been given parts etc.

Hmm, I didn't think I was very authoratitive. But now you've pointed it out, yeh! :lol: I just like to voice my opinion, and this forum is for just that. An open forum, for any discussions.
I've been told i've matured very quickly (!) so I suppose that's why my posts may seem so authoratitive.

I've been told by many that I have a great attitude towards the Euphonium, and that this will benefit me in years to come. I think it also reflects in my banding. I may not be the greatest player yet, (in fact i'm a bit disappointed in my playing and over critical of myself!) but i'm having a lesson off Steven Mead soon, and am very excited! :P Keep your eyes out for me in the future! :lol: :wink:

I was reading through some of the last posts, and i'm beginning to wonder... I think that the adjudicating system has its faults but is generally ok. The problem seems to be for the bands to accept the results that they have been given. It's easy for the one's that have done well, but not for the one's who haven't....

Max
09.10.2003, 17:08
The adjudicating system has its faults but is generally OK.

WHAT?

I agree it has its faults, and it is generally ok if you are lucky on the day. For the rest of us who have been at contests and seen some ridiculous results then "the adjudicating system has its faults"..... period.

monkey
09.10.2003, 19:29
So...Chainsaw Nick was right...computers in educational establishments are being used for non-educational purposes. This is quite shocking...these students should be billing their own parents (through landlines/ broadband etc) and not everyone elses!!

See you all at Pontins - more Eric Ball - hurray :P

Seedhouse
09.10.2003, 19:44
I'm being immature!?!?! And i'm definately not losing the plot!
I'm not sure whether you were joking but I found that last post monkey (!) to be quite offensive.

I'm actually taking into account other peoples views and adding my own, if you disagree with my views, you disagree with them, but that gives you no right in any way to complain about me as a person. This is a friendly group, that allows everyone to offer their views, not for what you've just posted.

So there are some shock results at times, but the adjudicators put those bands in that order for a reason, not because they just do it for the hell of it.

I don't see how any changes to the system will be made, and my personal view is that the system is ok for the time being.

monkey
09.10.2003, 20:00
:shock: Didin't mean to be offensive!

Roger Thorne
09.10.2003, 20:16
Due to several complaints received regarding the content of this thread, we are locking the thread until further notice.

Roger - Moderator