Composition by Committee

[Will the Sec]

Following on from the comment made by Philip Sparke in the Eden thread:


To save me much soul searching, I would welcome comments about my next test piece - which I don't even have planned at this stage. How long should it be? - which time sigs should I use???? What is the top note I can give to the trbs before I need to give it to the horns?????? Any help would be gratefully received ;)

So, I'll start with the title - all other contributions welcome!

(Please remember, though, not all bands can put together 17 percussionists for contests!)

[Will the Sec]

TITLE


The Day a Kangaroo-Eating Tiger Was Let Loose in Cardiff

[PeterBale]

FORM

Two sections, each 50 bars long, but with alternatives to bring about an early conclusion

[groovy]

Can I suggest that an appropriate opening would be a triangle cadenza?

[jingleram]

Think it should be scored for 24 euphoniums and a triangle. With maybe another euphonium to give more tonal variation.

[HBB]

Think it should be scored for 24 euphoniums and a triangle. With maybe another euphonium to give more tonal variation.
What a scary thought!

[jingleram]

I agree, maybe we should forget the triangle!

[sevenhelz]

i agree, we can easily make the same sound by clanging two music stands together...
definately 25 euphoniums. Mead-esque...
xx

[sevenhelz]

oh and can it be in 7 8?
xx

[Will the Sec]

Can I suggest that an appropriate opening would be a triangle cadenza?

You can suggest!

[Will the Sec]

oh and can it be in 7 8?
xx

Too easy, surely!

[sevenhelz]

okay then, serenade style... allegro section to begin with, 11 8, 13 8, 10 8 then 7 8 for three bars before one restful bar of 2 4, into 6 4 for two bars, one bar of 5 8, slowing to marching pace for seventeen bars of 12 8, two bars of 3 4, another of 5 8 and then back into 10 8 for sixteen bars before a four bar coda in 6 8... and repeat!

[sevenhelz]

oh, and tell him he shouldn't give top notes to the trombones at all - give it to the euphs instead ;)
xx

[jingleram]

Thankfully we haven't left any room for trombones! I think we should impoose a limit of about super-duper C though for safety reasons.

[sevenhelz]

hmmm, i suppose it does depends what section we're writing for. those super duper d's are hard, but we in the second section might be able to squeeze em out, if it's a special occasion ;)
xx

[DublinBass]

I'm starting to think some of you are just takingthe michael out of this entire test piece by committee idea!!

I would like to say that I think instead of solo cadenzas, there should be duet cadenzas...preferably between 1st & 2nd baritone as well as 2nd euph and Eb bass.

[Keppler]

what baritone? No room for them with all the euphoni-watsits.

[sevenhelz]

nahh you want the full euph/bari section in antithesis with the trombones. i suppose you could get the basses in if you think the trombs need more oomph........
xx

[DublinBass]

what baritone? No room for them with all the euphoni-watsits.

C'mon Kepps...baritones arethe future!!

[jingleram]

Hmm I suppose i may be guilty of 'Michael-taking' but I like the duet cadenzas! Always enjoy hearing Euphs and Baris moving in thirds in a slow movement!

[sevenhelz]

okay so which bit should be slow, the first set of 50 bars or the second? ;)
xx

[jingleram]

Hmmm, good point, I think the third!

[mikelyons]

In the slow movement, the euphs should play using clarinet mouthpieces when they have a melodic fragment.

The back row cornets have to use alternate fingerings for every note, so as to take account of microtonal differences.

[Steve]

start quiet, finish even quieter and score it thinly with plenty of exposure for each part (2nd horn, 3rd cornet, 2nd trombone, 2nd Bari quartet would be a nice cadenza). I am sure Mr Sparke will manage to make something from that wonderful insight into how to compose :roll:

[PeterBale]

You've all got it wrong over the number of beats in the bar: surely it has to be a standard 6 beats to the bar, but with extra ones inserted in the event of notes going astray!

[DublinBass]

The back row cornets have to use alternate fingerings for every note, so as to take account of microtonal differences.

Wouldn't the back row getmicrotonal differences just by playing it normal? ;)

[Anglo Music Press]

Thanks for all your help here.

So, two sections of 50 bars, 6 beats to a bar, except when notes are too high, when there will be 7 (or 11 for some aged Australian players)

Plenty of quotes from Strauss, Hayden, Clarke (Herbert or Jeremiah) and Giles (Farnaby). Perhaps a tribute to the styles of (Dizzy) Gillespie, (Quincy) Jones and (Oscar) Pietersen. This is looking good.

40 mins for lunch between the sections. Any split notes to be referred to a third adjudicator. Each band could wear silly coloured uniforms - oh, right, they already do.

Any visiting Australian bands should be cheered loudly. And it could be broadcast on Sky so no-one can actually watch it - with highlights at 1.30 in the morning for our convenience. The BBC could give a note-by-note commentary on digital radio or long wave, so no-one can hear it.

The right title stumps me at the moment.

[Anglo Music Press]

The right title stumps me at the moment.

No - I'll call it Harmison's Dream

[jingleram]

Very good job of sumarising! You're on to a winner there i think, but you didn't mention all the euphoniums! Nice title though. I think also that (Ralph) Vaughn (Williams) deserves a shout.

[Anglo Music Press]

Very good job of sumarising! You're on to a winner there i think, but you didn't mention all the euphoniums!

As there will probably be lots of slips, I think the euphs will make their own presence felt.

[PeterBale]

As long as the music is in the right pads, then the conductor can baton :oops:

[brassneck]

Some atmospheric effects can be added by officially using loud ringtones from mobile phones! Used appropriately during quiet sections or cadenza passages! These additions can be used offstage, preferably in the hall seating.

[Bariman]

Will all the audience be given cards with scores on so they can hold them up at appropriate moments? That way you could do away the additional cost of the adjudicators and use their tent (or whatever) as a home for the liquid refreshments.

[jo]

(Please remember, though, not all bands can put together 17 percussionists for contests!)


Just because we cant get them it shouldnt mean that the composer cant write for 17 percussionists...preferably with either expensive instruments like tubular bells and marimbas to screw the bands not fortunate enough to have them, or a whole load of hand held silly shake-y, vibraslap, duckcall type effects so everyone has to go out and buy lots of "never to be heard again" items!
the lack of players and missing parts in the percussion section on the day will really give the adjudicators something to ignore completely when it comes to the marks and remarks!
We love testpieces!

[jingleram]

Yes but don't forget the band needs musicians, not just people who can hit or shake things! ;)

[sevenhelz]

well really, when writing for 25 euphoniums, it often is quite fun if some play percussion. maybe three at a time, passing the instruments round to see who can get the oddest sound out?

oh and i do like the ringtone idea - perhaps we could put in that extra-special effect you get when someone sits and listens to three seconds of a ringtone and half a dozen people try and guess what it is, before the person with a phone shakes her/his head and starts a different ringtone? like an audio version of charades. always fun... we could have separate games going on all round the hall! :rolleyes:
xx

[sevenhelz]

have we run out of ideas already? :(

well anyway i think you should indicate players to sway in varying directions during the (previously unmentioned, hmm) waltz section :) the bumping and clanking sounds are optional
xx

[jingleram]

Whilst singing their parts through their instruments!

[Will the Sec]

Some atmospheric effects can be added by officially using loud ringtones from mobile phones! Used appropriately during quiet sections or cadenza passages! These additions can be used offstage, preferably in the hall seating.

Mr Sparke has already done this!

In Between the Moon and Mexico at the Albert Hall 1999. High pp solo cornet, held long.....interrupted by a mobile phone from the stalls.

[mikelyons]

The players can only rehearse in fours, with one of these being the conductor and the other three being from different sections of the band.

The librarian has to be instructed (or maybe not) to give the Bb instruments Eb parts or vice versa.

[jingleram]

Won't make any difference to the sound that comes out of them methinks!

[Will the Sec]

No - I'll call it Harmison's Dream

Don't like The Day a Kangaroo-Eating Tiger Was Let Loose in Cardiff then, Philip?

[Will the Sec]

Can we have the Bb Basses actually asked to do something musical? You know, more than just oompah, but not semiquavers inserted at random for the sake of it?

[sevenhelz]

oooh, i feel a euph/Bb bass duet coming on... with the bass on the higher part, naturally... :P
xx

[jingleram]

Not sure that that would go down too well, maybe contemplate a woodblock and Bb bass duet. Same amount of tunefullness, and takes up less space. Difficult to guess who would have the more challenging part though, maybe give the woodblock the melody and let the Bb do some good old oom pah.

[PeterBale]

Looking for a sovereign
I do hear there's one at the end of the Mall if you have a look, or maybe in Windsor castle! (Say hello to your mum and dad for me, will you?)

Back on topic, you could always try hitting the bass with a stick and using temple blocks to reproduce the oompahs :oops:

[andyp]

I'd like the solo cornet part to be a re-write of the solo cornet part of "Gipsy Dream" from Peter Grahams "Call Of The Cossacks", please.
That way I can guarantee no splits on the day. Unless I trip over my chair when standing for the applause, that is.
Failing that, I'd like a trio between sop, Bb bass and Mongolian nose flute (which the Bb bass player will play at the same time as his own instrument). Sop to play his part from the signing-on room (with random sssssshhhhhhhhh-QUIET! noises as usual).

[sevenhelz]

does the sop part get to have millions of semiquavers too?

and why are you assuming the bass player is male? ;)
xx

[PeterBale]

does the sop part get to have millions of semiquavers too?
No, just a few top "E"s ;)

[Will the Sec]

and why are you assuming the bass player is male? ;)
xx

Probably a Civil Servant using the "neutral" masculine.

In order to address complaints that guidance for Benefits administration referred exclusivley to "he, him and his", and the need to alter the guidance following the decision that from November 1983 that either partner in a family unit could be the claimant, HQ looked at the viability of making the adjustment to referring "his or hers". This was deemed unwieldy as it would add another 168 pages to the guidance. They considered the option of saying "they, them or their" but the legal department stated that it would be difficult to distinguish between the singular use of the word "their", and the (more natural) plural version.

Eventually it was decided to state at the outset of each volume of a guide that whenever the masculine was used it was intended to mean "he, she (or it)".

Hence, "his" will indeed refer to anyone (or anything) using the Bb Bass in question.

[andyp]

That's spooky - I am a civil servant, but I work in computer support, not benefits!

Think I was thinking of our band when I wrote it, tbh, where they are both male.

[jingleram]

I do hear there's one at the end of the Mall if you have a look, or maybe in Windsor castle! (Say hello to your mum and dad for me, will you?)


Mum on behalf of them both say hello back! And does the queen play euphonium??!!!

[Craigsav83]

No, just a few top "E"s ;)

:eek: Do those actually exist??? :frown:

[andyp]

:eek: Do those actually exist??? :frown:

Top space in the stave, surely?

[Craigsav83]

Top space in the stave, surely?

*breathes sigh of relief* aye of course... silly me! who would be daft enough to write that??? :rolleyes: :biggrin:

[sevenhelz]

Probably a Civil Servant using the "neutral" masculine.
...
Hence, "his" will indeed refer to anyone (or anything) using the Bb Bass in question.

that's still c-rubbish though, why not use she or the neutral word made up for the purpose, "po"? yes it might seem strange but i'd find it less annoying :mad: i'm not denying that most bass players are male, i merely dislike the implication that all of them are.

well anyway ontopic reply: is there room somewhere in the piece for a pianissimo pedal note held on a pause while all the non-playing players ping their mouthpieces together with the person next to them? preferably in time, but possibly in lutoslavski-style ordered chaos ^_^ i think it'd make a very subtle, touching ending actually
xx

[PeterBale]

:eek: Do those actually exist??? :frown:
Peter Roberts managed to find one in "Les Preludes", as did BAYV on their subsequent recording!

[SuperHorn]

Probably a Civil Servant using the "neutral" masculine.

In order to address complaints that guidance for Benefits administration referred exclusivley to "he, him and his", and the need to alter the guidance following the decision that from November 1983 that either partner in a family unit could be the claimant, HQ looked at the viability of making the adjustment to referring "his or hers". This was deemed unwieldy as it would add another 168 pages to the guidance. They considered the option of saying "they, them or their" but the legal department stated that it would be difficult to distinguish between the singular use of the word "their", and the (more natural) plural version.

Eventually it was decided to state at the outset of each volume of a guide that whenever the masculine was used it was intended to mean "he, she (or it)".

Hence, "his" will indeed refer to anyone (or anything) using the Bb Bass in question.

I'm a Civil Servant too, involved in Benefits - but all of the above is so sad. Obviously you have been in the service way too long !!!

[Craigsav83]

Peter Roberts managed to find one in "Les Preludes", as did BAYV on their subsequent recording!

lol - I like the way you put that Peter - managed to find one! Its bad enough fimding a top C :eek:

[Will the Sec]

I'm a Civil Servant too, involved in Benefits - but all of the above is so sad. Obviously you have been in the service way too long !!!

True. 24 years on 6th July.

[mikelyons]

I hate to type the word "*topic*", but I have! ;)

The slow section should have all third cornets marked fff because that's how they play anyway, and the melodic fragments should be played in the bottom euph register, against bass tremolos at the same pitch.

The time signatures should change every bar going through the sequence 1/5, 2/5... up to 9/5 before changing to 1/11, 2/11 etc. at a tempo of quaver=120pm

[sevenhelz]

:( why would you do that to me mike? you've got to have at least two completely contrasting euph parts, one extremely low and one extremely high, just to make sure you've PROPERLY worn us out...

xxx

[brassneck]

The piece should have a section where brand new, unchartered music notation is used. The conductors and players have to make up their own mind how to interpret and play them without help from composer or adjudicators.

[jingleram]

I don't think a conductor should be used with this piece, unless there is an oclephide being played, in which case the conductor should sing agnus dei whilst conducting with a sawn-off trombone slide. We don't want to upset the traditionalists! ;)

[sevenhelz]

yes but agnus dei should be sung to the tune of bohemian rhapsody. (there are too many agnus deis to choose from)
xx

[jingleram]

Indeed, I of course meant Agnus Dei by Tony Blair, originally recorded by Colin Powell.

[andyp]

The piece should have a section where brand new, unchartered music notation is used. The conductors and players have to make up their own mind how to interpret and play them without help from composer or adjudicators.

I've had this happen to me - in my O level music exam, too! Bizarre random squiggles and lines in boxes you had to make sense of, which we'd had no preparation for at all. Nice. Our teacher apologised afterwards!

Anyhoo, can we have frequent location changes for soloists? Bit of tension seeing if anyone falls over while rushing from place to place on the stage!
(e.g. Bb bass solo played while standing on head at the back of the stage, bell flat on the floor giving unusual "muting" effect!)

[sevenhelz]

point two sopranos in to one another so the sound is amplified twice... or muffled, i don't know but it'll be interesting ^_^
xx

[brassneck]

If the work is used for a set-piece contest, get the composer or adjudicator to conduct each performance. That should make interesting listening after a couple of weeks rehearsal! :rolleyes:

post-edit ... even more interesting is getting the composer to remove all metronome/tempo markings to allow free interpretation in rehearsal.

[Craigsav83]

point two sopranos in to one another so the sound is amplified twice... or muffled, i don't know but it'll be interesting ^_^
xx

LOL

Rhapsody for 6 soprano cornets with bass trombone accompaniment! :tongue:

Must have tam-tam cadenza marked ffffff too :eek: :biggrin: