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sparkling_quavers
02.12.2002, 09:51
don't you agree they are just rubbish!? I think my cornet makes a great sound (although not neccesarily when played by me) but the valves are terrible. They have been 'sticky' for a while and at one rehearsal one of them just ceized up totally. After lots of turning it upside down and blank faces my housemate noticed the valve is actually bent. Therefore it does't go straight down the valve case and hence gets stuck. I definately haven't dropped it although that was the first question! I have no idea how this could have happened...has anyone found this before?

Keppler
02.12.2002, 11:06
Not necessarily (god, I can't spell) due to bent valves or casings, but yip, have had trouble with sovereign valves. Actually, I've had trouble with valves on things not-Besson as well. The action on my Maestro has always been excellent, but the best are those 20 year old B&H Sovereigns.

Btw.. when desperate with valves, I've found using a small amount of brasso on them and washing them down with toothpaste after does the trick.

As to your bent valve - I applaud your lung-power ;)

rutty
02.12.2002, 11:20
As to your bent valve - I applaud your lung-power ;)
Believe me - she has a cracking pair of lungs! :shock:

Keppler
02.12.2002, 11:33
As to your bent valve - I applaud your lung-power ;)
Believe me - she has a cracking pair of lungs! :shock:

Oh yes, I have no problem believing that... ;)

Roger Thorne
02.12.2002, 17:56
A cornet player friend of mine has never used valve oil.

Before every rehearsal he always dips his valves into a weak solution of water and washing up liquid.

He's been doing it for years so I presume it works fine.


PS: Don't bother with the "I'm forever blowing bubbles" jokes!

Keppler
02.12.2002, 18:08
A cornet player friend of mine has never used valve oil.

I knew someone like this as well... everyday common or garden spit was his solution - no fancy washing up liquid for him. Before every practice he'd heik up a good one and get the valve nice and greasy....

Sufficient to say, the "he's been doing it for years" excuse doesn't cut it for me..

Anyone else out there put wierd and wonderful stuff on their valves?

dave jake
03.12.2002, 00:47
Washing up liquid is not a good idea as some brands are highly corrosive to brass and copper, ohe reason it is banned as a leak detector in the gas industry. Be warned,wash instrument in warm water only. :!:

kimmy
03.12.2002, 11:49
i use to have a sovereign Euph but i struggled with the valves. they felt really heavy. I then moved bands and was given a silver plated yamaha maestro euph. The difference was amazing, the maestro was lighter, the valves were light and springy and I can really play it well. I'm now playing on a gold maestro beacause i was allergic to the metal but this one is just as good and i've really become attached to it.

sparkling_quavers
03.12.2002, 12:06
talking about getting attached to instruments...a friend of mine has given his instrument a name :shock:

kimmy
03.12.2002, 12:09
can't say i'm that bad i just couldn't bear the thought of having to swop to something else!!!!! :o :o :o :roll:

YorkshirePudding
03.12.2002, 13:56
When trying to resove sticking problems try this simple test. If valve 1 is sticking try valves 2 & 3 in position 1. If they operate freely then suspect that valve 1 has something wrong with it. Confirm this by trying valve 1 in casings 2 & 3. By swapping the vaves around like this you can quickly determine if the problem lies with the casing or the valve. This technique applies for dirt problems or dints.
If thourough cleaning and oiling does not do the job then a minor straightening job at the repairers may be necessary. I imagine they push through a rod of the exact size with a ball or tapered end.
You should never try and use abrasives to make the valve fit as this will destroy the airtight seal and may affect the sound.

spookybiking
03.12.2002, 18:31
Well i have heard that the old sovereign valves were platinum plated and now the new besson sovereign called are aerospace titainium. But i never had trouble with my sovereign horn valves, they just wasn't that smooth.my new instrument which is now 4 years old the valves took ages to bed in and they are nice and smooth but have to wash them every 3months roughly to stop them from slowing up. but how does the top players manage wots there seceret?????

Highams
03.12.2002, 19:46
Sovereign valves have always been a problem as long as I can remember.

My partners Sov. Baritone went back twice and in the end, a private workshop corrected the fault, the valve guide groove was not cut out straight !

The best euph valves I have ever had are on my current Willson 2900.

By the way, back in the 70's I played a Besson in Watney's Band that had the second valve positioned forward of the other two, to fall in line with the fingers !

Tuba
11.12.2002, 12:37
My band has two 20 years old Sovereign EEb basses(I play one of them). The valves are working as great as ever, I never have any problems with them.

A good advice is to take really good care of the valves the first month or so you are using a brand new instrument. Oil them every time you pick it up the first few weeks, and perhaps you will save yourself some trouble later on.

The problem with many instruments(not only sovereigns) is that they haven't been taken care of from day 1. This may cause the valves to get slower and even jam completely. The first 4 weeks is the most important...

frisp
11.12.2002, 12:46
I'm on the second Sov Bass I've owned.

The first (EEb), twenty years ago, was brilliant. Everything was great including the valves.

My current bass (BBb) is OK but the valves are garbage. They get oiled very, very frequently but still stick at ridiculous, and embarassing times.

Could it be down to quality control coupled to the lottery issue I read about on another thread, I only bought it a year ago?

Salli
13.12.2002, 00:56
At the age of eleven, my mum and dad bought me a Sovereign cornet.

The valves were absolutely brilliant and I only oiled them about once every six months, when I gave the instrument a thorough clean, and even then they didn't really need doing. They were very smooth and fast :D

Since then I've changed instrument and have played on a Sovereign tenor horn. The valves were constantly sticking no matter how often they were oiled. It was as if they were mis-aligned. The rest of the horn section experienced the same problem. :cry:

We now play on Yamaha's, which aren't brilliant (they tend to dry out very quickly) but at least they work if they're oiled frequently. :?

It certainly seems that the old Sovereigns were a lot better than those being produced today. What has happened to progress?

Singapore Northern Lass
13.12.2002, 15:19
I can honestly say the Sovreign cornet I got for my 18th birthday-which is 20ahem years old now-has never had a problem with it's valves. :D

The Maestro I was using from the band however was really bad, more rehersals were affected because of sticky valve trouble than everything else put together :roll:

billbrass
10.01.2003, 19:40
:o Re sticking valves my grandson has a yamaha YCR series cornet ever since new we have had a problem with all valves sticking at different times has anybody out there had probs with yamaha cornets, any help will be appreciated.

:( billbrass

super_sop
10.01.2003, 20:47
I have a Yamaha maestro cornet and find it an axcellent cornet to play.
the only trouble ive ever had with it was it being knocked :cry: out of my hand and onto the floor on the way into the areas contest. not a good start to it I can tell you. it was only 6v weeks old :cry:

Basstromboner
11.01.2003, 00:01
I was reposnisble for buying my band a complete set of instruments a couple of years ago.
This was an experience which turned out to be an eye opener. :shock:

The first three cornets received had silver looking plated valves
(I'm not going to get technical with the plating type!)
The valves worked great but bad scores were visible on the valve body.
Today, these cornets still have good performing valves.

The other six cornets (ignore the sop as this was a different make), these were reject twice.
The valves looked unplated (again, don't want to get into techy here!)

The players gave the instruments a fair chance for the valves to settle in but as time went on they seemed to get worse!

The three Sovereign Horns we received had terrible valves - again these were rejected.
One of the horns which was sent straight from the manufactuer had a soldering fault!

We had no problems with baris/euphs/basses though.

I don't know what the cornet/horn valves are like now.

I think the moral of the story is take up the trombone - its great to wind up the cornet player with that sticky valve excuse! :twisted:

Wonky_Baton
11.01.2003, 01:08
Sticky valves aren't a problem on bass cos the notes are never that fast in any case. :lol:

My old conductor used to say if your valves stuck you weren't practicing enough. :?

And for sparkly I've got to say a bent valve is better than a bent house mate :P

Hilary Mateer
11.01.2003, 01:25
My current EEb bass is a 3 year old sovereign and the valves are rubbish.
I had to send it back when I first got it to have them "lapped in" whatever that is.
They still stick quite often even though I wash it fairly frequently and play it most days.
I think some of the trouble is the black plastic tops of the valves which have the guide on, becoming dislodged from the rest of the valve and jamming up. :(
The other problem is that once I have taken the valve out and oil it it can take me aged to get back in as the screw threads do not seem to bite properly :evil:

Wonky_Baton
11.01.2003, 01:42
I think the moral of the story is take up the trombone - its great to wind up the cornet player with that sticky valve excuse

The moral of the story is "dont send a trombone player to buy valved instruments" :lol:

Wonky_Baton
11.01.2003, 01:47
Washing up liquid is not a good idea as some brands are highly corrosive to brass and copper, ohe reason it is banned as a leak detector in the gas industry. Be warned,wash instrument in warm water only.

Nowt to do with washing up liquid is cheap and they would rather use 20 a can stuff to check for leaks to bump the bills up Jakey :roll:

Matthew
17.01.2003, 21:52
talking about getting attached to instruments...a friend of mine has given his instrument a name :shock:

Does it make said person play any better though?!! I talk to my bass though.......it does no good, but hey, it's worth a try.....LOL.

Matt

Matthew
17.01.2003, 21:58
I've played both Sovereign Basses and the more different Courtois bass. I have to say that they both have their annoyances in the valve department!

On the Sovereign they can often stick and become 'clonky' very quickly - especially in different temperature changes (but same for any valved instrument I suppose), but I've found they vary tremendously according to the instrument.

On my 1980's Sovereign EEb, the valves were fantastic - maybe the newer model basses aren't quite as good or it's a bit hit and miss? The BBb Sovereign valves have always seemed a little erratic, especially the shorter 4th Valve - it just seems to be down to a particular instrument a lot of the time though (e.g. no consistency/luck).

The Courtois valves are a law to themselves - sometimes they work, sometimes they don't! They are of poorer build quality IMO (e.g. plastic valve guides) and if they move even the slightest mm offline, they simply stick, not good at all! :o

sparkling_quavers
17.01.2003, 22:00
not really :lol: I have heard of 'band bonding' but I thought that was between the players....not a player and his instrument!?! :lol: he's mad anyway! :roll:

Matthew
17.01.2003, 22:07
not really :lol: I have heard of 'band bonding' but I thought that was between the players....not a player and his instrument!?! :lol: he's mad anyway! :roll:

<gulp> Errmmmmmmm, what was that band bondage?! :roll:


Oh, sorry, bonding! Does it make him play any better though is the question?! :)

sparkling_quavers
17.01.2003, 22:35
what band bondage? :?

Matthew
17.01.2003, 22:50
what band bondage? :?

A 'freudian' slip?! :oops: lol

billbrass
20.01.2003, 15:21
:D the mouthpiece certainly doe's the trick, since I enquired about my grandsons yamaha cornet with sticky valves the valves are magic no sticking at all thank you who ever did the trick, hope I have not spoken to soon.

billbrass

iancwilx
01.02.2003, 19:11
I have a two year old Sov. EEb Bass. The valves were fine up 'til about a month ago when the first two started to "Catch" on the way up. I 've had them serviced by a dealer, I've completely stripped them down and pulled them through, I've replaced valve guides and springs, I've cleaned the guide channels, I've done the brasso and toothpaste treatment, and they're still rubbish. The instrument is virtually unplayable and certainly unreliable.
I think it is poor workmanship. Does anyone else have great difficulty getting the valve screw top to engage without crossthreading ? It sometimes takes me ages.
Bearing in mind this is the 3rd replacement tuba we've had, the others all had black spot and metal as thin as Bacofoil !!!!!!!!
B & H took our lottery money and ran !!!!

cornetgirl
01.02.2003, 20:43
Does anyone else have great difficulty getting the valve screw top to engage without crossthreading ? It sometimes takes me ages.


Frequently....all too frequently and usually in the middle of a concert or something equally embarrassing!

I've had my sov. for nearly 10 years now and it can be rather temperamental, sometimes the valves behave beautifully for months then I'm cleaning, oiling and having great difficulty for a couple of weeks.

Soaking your valves in "full fat" Coke overnight sometimes helps but it is very acidic (I'd hate to think what it does to your stomach!) so don't do it too often!

Rach x

Keppler
02.02.2003, 04:42
Soaking your valves in "full fat" Coke overnight sometimes helps but it is very acidic (I'd hate to think what it does to your stomach!) ...

or your teeth, eh CG?

cornetgirl
02.02.2003, 14:22
Soaking your valves in "full fat" Coke overnight sometimes helps but it is very acidic (I'd hate to think what it does to your stomach!) ...

or your teeth, eh CG?

Well yes...I once disolved an extracted tooth in Coke to demonstrate to someone what their fizzy drink habit was doing to their teeth!

May I add (puts professional hat on) that drinking large quantities of Coke is exceptionally bad for your teeth and I wouldn't recommend it to you! But as valves don't have teeth sparing use should be OK!!!! :D

NottinghamFlorist
02.02.2003, 14:57
I would be very careful mixing coke with an expensive instrument, the stuff is incredibly potent. When I was in the Territorial Army I used to be in the shooting team and often spent all day on the ranges with my trusty SLR. When we finished we had to clean the rifles. The gas plug - part of the self loading mechanism - was always covered in hard baked on carbon and cordite deposits. To clean it was either a hard 20 min slog with penknife and emery paper or alternatively a 5 minute soak in coke whilst you had a cigarette followed a quick wipe with a peice of cloth. Goodness knows what it will do to finely polished valve surfaces.
Instead of bemoaning valves on sovereigns why bother buying them in the first place if they are now so bad. Is it just fashion to buy these instruments? Are they just living on their past good name? there must be good competitors at this price range who's valves dont stick.

Seedhouse
05.04.2003, 18:07
My Euph Soveriegn valves have never been perfect, I always have problems with them and i've tried everything to try to make them work better! I feel i'm doomed to have valves that don't work properly! :cry:
I've ordered a Prestige (last September and its coming in May :D ), and I just hope the valves it comes with will work better than my Sovereigns!

satchmo shaz
05.04.2003, 18:38
my brother carl doesnt have a problem with his prestige, cheers shaz x

aimee_euph
06.04.2003, 18:57
Oooooh, don't get me started on my Sovereign Euph valves!!

i got my euph from my mum & dad last year in late march. In april, the 3rd valve was sticking. So i assumed it was just newness and lynda nicholson said i need to wash it, stick a bit of brasso on it, then vlalve oil etc. and then see how it goes. So i did, an it was still bad. Then, she suggested going to Queens in Manchester and they fixed it with a little tool that did something to the inside of the valve thing.

Two months later, the 2nd valve was playing up, so i but brasso on etc. and it works fairly ok. But, the valve cap doesnt fit the screwy bit on the instrument, so i now dread oiling my valves because i spend 5mins trying to line the thing up properly.

All of the laquer has started to 'go' round the bell. So i have attractive black spots all over my instrument, and Band Supplies don't have a replacement/courtisy euph for me to use while my instrument goes off to be silvered.

Nooow, if i play louder than mf, or even mp, the 2nd valve slide shoots out and i have to cake it in vaseline to stop it from moving, the same with my 4th valve slide, unless its pushed in all the way, making my D's sharp, and i have to lip them down everytiome i get one. So i have to cake it in vaseline to make it stay in!

Plus, my instrument is 'sharp' because even Mark Bousie said it was when he played it and i cant pull out my main tuning slide very far because it falls out. I found this out whoislt recording my GCSE piece the other week. as i pulled the slide out because it was sharp, i was half way through the piece and it fell out!

I've only had it just over a year... so i'm not a happy bunny, at all.

Brad J
07.04.2003, 00:59
Has anyone noticed a corrosion on the bottoms of their valves? (it's a greenish/blue sort of thing - like copper i guess). There's next to none on my thrid valve, a bit on my second, and a heap on my first. I was just wondering what it was.

The actual action of the valves is quite good, very clanky (even with new felts - but that's kind of to be expected). I've looked after them well, they keep getting better the longer I have the instrument.

I play a 20 yr old Sov Baritone

smiler44
16.04.2003, 18:35
I play on an old sovereign cornet that i bought in 1983, it has had some hammer in that time , and the cornet looks old, however the valves are absoloutely spot on, i have tried a new sovereign cornet and the valves are so sluggish its virtually unplayable in a championship band , needless to say everyone in my band are playing the new ones , i'll stick with my old one thank you very much! :D

angie
22.04.2003, 13:48
I HATE SOVEREIGN VALVES!

just thought i'd share that with people who can obviously sympathise
i used to have one of the older soveriegns and the valves were beautiful but it made a really bright sound, my new one makes a really nice mellow sound but the valves quite often need a hammer to move them, especially the third one

jonford
24.04.2003, 01:34
Apart from waiting 9 months for my euph! ive not had a problem with it, at first the valves were a bit dodgy but they seem to be ok now.

With the baritone that I use tho it is completely different, the fourth valve has on a few occasions got stuck half way. This made it so hard to play and nothing was coming out of the bell!! at first i thought it just needed a clean but then i realised it was the valve! It has since been working for about a month now but it will probably mess up again in the middle of a concert or worse, a contest!

michellegarbutt
24.04.2003, 13:05
I play a yamaha baritone and I find the valves are very bad for sticking. I have to wash, dry and oil the valves every time I play and this doesn't solve the problem every time

jonford
25.04.2003, 01:22
It may just be me but when I tried a yamaha, the valves seemed longer, this making is possibly harder to play faster!

Okiedokie of Oz
26.02.2004, 12:41
I've either owned or been in the custody of 8 Sovereigns (2 BBb's, Bessie, 3 baritones, a euph and a 927 cornet). NEVER had a problem with the valves. Bessie was always a little dry at first, she went through a bottle of oil in 3 months, but after I wore them in, they were gorgeous until her death.

jameshowell
26.02.2004, 12:54
I've never had any trouble with the valves on my sovereign flugel, though I did change the springs for a set that were much stiffer, as I prefer the feel that way. But no real problems, at least no more than you get on any from time to time.

Though I will add that it is a "pre-lottery" sov... :roll:

brasscrest
26.02.2004, 15:45
I play a yamaha baritone and I find the valves are very bad for sticking. I have to wash, dry and oil the valves every time I play and this doesn't solve the problem every time

The Yamaha four-valve baritones have a design-related flaw in the first and second valves. This is usually evident when the valves are played in combination - first and second together. One of the other will "stick". This is not usually mechanical sticking, like a dry valve. It is because of a pressure issue in the tubing - kind of like pulling out a slide when the valve is up, and it pops - same thing. Our band has two of these and both have the same problem. Keeping the valves very clean helps.

NeilW
27.02.2004, 01:32
I've got one of the "early" Soverign Euphs, and its valves are usually fine (bet they will decide not to work later today in a concert in return for me not having played it for about 6 weeks - see .signature!).

The only trouble I have with them is that I can't get the tops OFF when I do need to apply oil/whatever!

8 or 9 year old bass I play, the valves are OK, a bit heavy... I have trouble with the 4th tuning slide falling out. I keep meaning to secure it with a rubber band round the slide and then round the tube...

Wasn't it the sovereign range that went through that phase of "plastic" valves that were an utter disaster?

Neil.

Okiedokie of Oz
27.02.2004, 04:38
In regards to the tuning slide, we had two Besson 700 BBb's that did the same thing. We slightly squeezed the outer slide somehow (I didn't do it!!!!) and now she's sweet.

Besson uses a plastic valve guide, which has it's pros and cons. A friend of mine had a band sov euph and was an absolute genius. He was capable of playing so fast, he went through a set of guides every month or so. when he left for uni, and returned the instrument, it was left at the conductor's house for 3 weeks, not being played, before I was moved.

When I got it, I went to oil the valves, but they wouldn't come out. When we did get them out they were covered with a white powder. I remember him telling me once that he played so often, he'd never had let the valves have time to dry, so he never oiled them. The powder turnbed out to be what was left of all the valve guides, plus aa bit of dried saliva and such.