YouTube - Brass Band Content

Discussion in 'The Rehearsal Room' started by westburykid, Mar 2, 2007.

  1. andyp

    andyp Active Member

    You're probably right. Though it would be interesting to know how many people x how much per download would be the break-even point for a "blanket licence" for an operation that I guess wouldn't be looking to make a commercial-level profit (i.e. not looking to rip people off!), and whether that's a price said people are willing to pay.

    Material for a poll? Along the lines of "It will cost x pence per download if y people sign up for z downloads?"
  2. KMJ Recordings

    KMJ Recordings Supporting Member

    You're quite right, Jim , and you're to be congratulated in your quest and your output.

    There's a possibility, though, that a service like this could cause distribution of recordings by Bands that don't have the possibility of distribution by the majors. It all depends on whether it can be made finacially viable or not - hence the possibility of the subscription service (or alternative).
  3. andyp

    andyp Active Member

    No wonder it took me 3 go's to find it.... ;-)

    The man is insane.......last vari C of V upside-down??!???!?
  4. KMJ Recordings

    KMJ Recordings Supporting Member

    The blanket licence is a strange one - you're looking at a thing called a Joint Online Licence, which comes from the MCPS / PRS Alliance. It's calculated based on the gross profit of the site (not just on the audio aspects of it - there's a lt of rather heated discussions about the calculations of royalties ....details can be found via the MCPS website), an is paid in advance. Depending on the potential market, it can range from a few hundred pounds to many, many thousands. It's that market sector that needs to be assessed.
  5. KMJ Recordings

    KMJ Recordings Supporting Member

    I don't think it makes any difference :biggrin: The number of ledger lines either side of the stave is the same!
  6. andyp

    andyp Active Member

    Paid in advance on the potential market? Sounds like a licence to ask for silly money to me. Who decides what the "potential market" is?
    If that's the kind of thing John's up against then the whole thing sounds like a non-starter to me. I could (just about) understand a percentage deal but if you have to hand over a large sum up front for something that may not meet up to the preconceived (by the MCPS) ideal that's commercial suicide.

    If you could do a "MCPS gets 15%" (or whatever number) kind of thing it'd maybe work cos at least you'd have some idea in advance of whether it's worth it, the way you describe is a non-starter IMO.
  7. andyp

    andyp Active Member

    Yeah, but hitting the valves upside down hurts! I (being kinda sad that way) tried it!

    Just as well he doesn't play Eb bass.............
  8. KMJ Recordings

    KMJ Recordings Supporting Member

    Yep - it's a very strange one. They actually ask for (I think) 8.5% of the site's revenue. That said, they do take into account the size of the operation and the upfront bit is scaled (so, for instance, they may ask for £250 per quarter and you then make up any differences to the said percentage). My understanding is also that if you don't hit the expected royalty rate, you get some of your money back - but you've still got to have the funds to pay it.

    It's a while since I hadthe conversation with my contact at the MCPS, perhaps it's time to refresh my memory if this kind of thing is getting towards a reality.
  9. KMJ Recordings

    KMJ Recordings Supporting Member

    Ah, just watched it - did't realise he turned the instrument the other way up! :eek:

    I was thinking more in terms of 'silly' notes
  10. andyp

    andyp Active Member

    Oh, you mean "Carnival of Venus"! (his own version of "Carnival of Venice")

    That's beyond silly. It's the most insane piece I have ever heard played!
  11. andyp

    andyp Active Member

    It would be interesting to know where the balance point is, i.e. where you start to make a modest profit that makes it worthwhile for an operation that doesn't sell CD's/recordings as it's main function.
  12. TheMusicMan

    TheMusicMan tMP Founder Staff Member

    I am not necessarily looking to make a profit... just not to add to the current 'well out of balance' costs/donations ratio :)

    If I could (almost) cover the costs of adding this service to tMP, then as Jim already states... a hobby is a passion... and hence tMP is my passion... so - I'd do it.
  13. andyp

    andyp Active Member

    I think this is the market to be looking at, along with (maybe) live recordings by top bands that never see the light of day - although that one may be dodgy.
    I don't reckon there's any great mileage in trying to do an Itunes selling Black Dyke CD recordings (Doyen, Obrasso etc might not be too happy, for a start!). But, bands outside the top well-known few might like the idea of a specialist audio version of Flickr, where they can point their friends/relatives who may not go to all their concerts at the site and say "have a listen to this!".

    Composers may use it to publicise new compositions/arrangements too, would they pay a small upload charge to get many times the benefit in sales? (I'd have to consult my bro on that one!)

    If it's financially viable it sounds like a goer. I definitely think it'd be popular!
  14. KMJ Recordings

    KMJ Recordings Supporting Member

    I'm sure WoB have already thought of the former ;)

    It's the latter that particularly interests me - perhaps I'm being naive, but I believe that there's an audience out there for (almost!) everyone. This is potentially a good way to reach them - but in reality you need to be doing something a bit diffrent. In my recent talk to the NABBC I spoke a little on product differentiation - the same thing applies here if you're going to stand out.
  15. andyp

    andyp Active Member

    Sounds like a subject for a (carefully worded) poll? - find out what people think of the idea?
  16. KMJ Recordings

    KMJ Recordings Supporting Member

    Yep - I'll let John deal with that one - it's his idea ;)
  17. DocFox

    DocFox Retired

    The laws are different in the states obviously. But even Drum Corps International (DCI) had to charge $4 (£3 or so) for each track on their web site. This is AFTER each drum corps paid royalties to record and publicly perform the copyrighted pieces in the first place.

    Of course, the complaint there was: is it worth £3 for a mp3? The CD would cost about £12 and have up to 15 tracks. Still, it has made money.

    But I have a hypothesis: It made money because DCI promised to give the "profits" to the drum corps. That is kind of like the average Brass Band fan buying a few CDs at a contest.

    They may not want, or even like, every track on the CDs. BUT -- it helps the bands. I own several hundred Brass Band CDs purchases from the UK. It is a lot of money -- but I know I have also helped the bands in two ways: 1) the bands made a little money from my purchase, and 2) I have given them a little exposure on the radio station.

    Would brass banding fans buy a MP3 track for £3 without the profits going to the band? I do not live in the UK -- so I will not hypothesize an answer.

  18. KMJ Recordings

    KMJ Recordings Supporting Member

    Perhaps there's a distinction that we need to make here.

    My initial understanding is that John was looking at a streaming service and not (at this stage anyway) a download service. As he said above, it's not intended to be a profit making service but it (obviously) can't be another financial burden on him.

    AFAIK there are no constraints placed on the amounts you can charge per track / full CD equivalent in the UK on a download service, although it's commonplace to see the full CDs being cheaper than the sum of it's parts.

    There are at least a couple of ways you could look at it, given that it's really about covering licence costs / server space / bandwidth etc - the first is an advertising strategy for Bands, such that it's a pay to be played situation. The second is as a subscription service for listeners. I'm sure there are more....hopefully the thoughts of tMM will soon become apparent ;)
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2007
  19. DocFox

    DocFox Retired

    Again, I am not familiar with the UK laws, but in the US, you can stream for simply paying the broadcast royalties, which are MUCH cheaper than selling the download.

    Still, I simply pay the broadcast royalties and lose quite a bit of money. I would have to step up to paying prices at a "Pro Level" and then selling advertisements. For Brass Bands, that would probably be a huge money losing venture.

    "On Demand" steaming in the US means paying the higher royalties. I am forbidden by law, for example, to publish a play list or play "requests" so people can record them off the station. I have the station programmed to play selections randomly. If I did live broadcasting (which I could do easily enough) I would have to be careful to keep from allow "clean recordings" being pre-annouced. Best to talk about them afterward. I have yet to venture into live broadcasting.

    And to date, no one wants to even give me even a small sponsorship. I have had some bands send me CDs for which I am very grateful. I think that totals 6 CDs out of the hundreds I own.

    So, for me it comes down to a money losing labour of love. It helps the bands and it promotes good music which I feel is very important. If people know and appreciate John Williams and Philip Sparke, I am happy. If they appreciate the deep harmonies of Eric Ball, I would be ecstatic.

    But for making money or even breaking even -- without knowing the UK laws well, I can tell you that will probably be an uphill climb. Even so, I would support it with what little I have.

  20. back to the original question....we are on youtube playing last whit friday here. every year we do dobcross last and play the day thou gavest after and someone randomly filmed it!! each to their own i suppose!!

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