Your chance to develop the future of tMP

Discussion in 'tMP Site News & Suggestions' started by Chunky, Mar 4, 2008.

  1. Chunky

    Chunky Active Member

    As a member of tMp now for some time I have always enjoyed the debate / banter whatever you want to call it.

    However just recently this enjoyment has decreased due to what I (and maybe others too!) see as ‘over sensitive’ moderating.

    For me part of debating is that there will be conflicting views and these, should be allowed to be bought forward and allowed to develop. I do agree that this should not become nasty, threatening or vindictive but sometimes personal comments will occur because people care and are passionate about their banding. John is passionate too about his banding, that’s why he set this forum up and made it free for us all to use.

    It appears when moderators feel, in their opinion, somebody has stepped over the line they withdraw the post. That is their prerogative and role within a forum such as this. However they have openly admitted they withdraw posts, however constructive and well written, just because of one personal comment.

    I understand that they may have to do this to protect John from legal costs. But surely the edit function is there for moderators to use as well! Would it not be as quick for them to just edit the post, remove the ‘offensive element’ and leave the constructive & relevant points. The moderators post that they do not have the time to discuss these comments in the background, so why not just edit? Surely that is quicker?

    Another comment from the mod’s, which we constantly read, is ‘we give up our free time to do this’. Yes you do and we all appreciate that. However it’s your choice to do it. Just as it’s our choice and our free time used as members to post!

    I am not asking tMp to lose any of its values in terms of being family friendly but just to ask the moderating team to remember that passions run high and things get said in the heat of the moment in any ‘family’ environment and offensive comments aside a lot of good can come out of heated discussions!

    We do not live in a world where the sun always shines and the grass is always green and nobody fall’s out! Therefore can I ask the mod’s to consider editing posts rather than simply withdrawing when a post has something constructive and relevant to the debate?

    Thank you.

  2. dyl

    dyl Active Member

    Hi Ian, and thanks for your reasoned observation.

    We are currently in discussions, as a team, as to how we handle things here on tMP. You are all probably well aware that we aren't happy with recent activity on here, and we feel that sometimes people do not take our requests seriously. The recent post which was removed as opposed to editing is an example of this. There had been continued requests to keep insults from the thread in question, requests which were in the main adhered to, but some chose to ignore this. Therefore, it's a pity that when a perfectly articulate post was spoiled yet again by including needless digs at the team, and there comes a time when of course we'd take it personally.

    You are correct in that we choose to do this - but we do not choose to get insulted or ridiculed. Yes, we are passionate about banding, and passionate about tMP, but speaking personally, this passion is starting to decrease.

    Like I said, we are in serious discussions about how we can try and improve on the situation, because, contrary to what some might think, we're not stupid - we know this place isn't what it used to be before - but one thing is for certain, we can't do it on our own, we need our members to work with us - not against us.

    If anyone have any observations, comments or suggestions, feel free to send John, or any member of the team a private message.

  3. Chunky

    Chunky Active Member

    Hi Dyl

    Thanks for reply and more importantly reading mine and understanding the context and spirit it was written in.

    I appreciate that you are all looking at ways of perhaps re-igniting tMp. I believe its important the members are given their chance to have an input.

    Whilst you have suggested sending a pm to the team or John as you don't want to be flooded with rubbish perhaps a discussion in the open would be more beneficial? People may read an idea and can develope it. If it's sent as a pm that idea may not get developed or enhanced.

  4. dyl

    dyl Active Member

    Absolutely. I meant to say that the PM option was just that - an option - people are more than welcome to use this thread should they so wish.

    We tried something similar just over a year ago - and the thread got 5 replies! Though, I suspect, with recent activity on here this one might get a little more! ;)
  5. Anno Draconis

    Anno Draconis Well-Known Member

    Would it not be just as quick for everyone who posts on here to take a deep breath, preview their post, and think for a minute whether personal insults are justified and relevant before clicking "submit reply"? I for one am getting sick of reading thinly veiled barbs at the moderators. It's not big and it's not clever.
  6. andywooler

    andywooler Supporting Member

    Personally, one thing I would love to see is people not being able to hide behind screennames which tell us nothing about who they are.
    If you have an opinion, you should be big enough to put your name to it.
  7. Ipswich trom

    Ipswich trom Member

    I agree, unless those details are available then they shouldn't be able to post.
  8. Will the Sec

    Will the Sec Active Member

    Ah, the days of Uncle Eric and Walter Plinge. I miss them so.
  9. Chunky

    Chunky Active Member

    It would indeed Andy. However sometimes the fingers act quicker than the brain and the submit reply button gets hit!
  10. stevetrom

    stevetrom Well-Known Member

    sorry, have to disagree with that one.

    If someone wants to remain anonymous its up to them. Anyone opinion is valid, regardless of their experience.
  11. andywooler

    andywooler Supporting Member

    So, you'll be happy with totally inexperienced adjudicators at your next contest as after all, their opinion is a valid as any other top adjudicator?
    Of course you wouldn't!
    Opinion backed by knowledge, skills and experience is in my opinion (;)) more likely to be seen as credible. But I can't judge the background to an opinion from anonymity.

    Humour is a different matter - there was once someone on the brass band mailing list who went under the name of "brass band police" - he was very tongue in cheek and would have given people like Fazed Song a good run for his money in the sarcasm stakes. I often wondered if he was a relative of starperformer!
    Interestingly, we don't have this problem in the sports thread where the footie discussions are often like an extension of "Terrace Humour" - Ian P for example takes a lot of light hearted stick about Liverpool and takes it all in very good humour. :clap: - but of course, in that forum, we have all declared our allegiances - even those who post anonymously. You don't have that in a serious discussion.
  12. Jan H

    Jan H Moderator Staff Member

    Hi Chunky,

    I'd like to give my point of view as well.

    There is a difference between "personal comments" and downright insults. Yes we can edit, but if a certain member (without pointing to anyone in particular) consistently and purposefully keeps ignoring our requests and warnings, we don't see why we have to bother editing every post.

    Anyway, the particular issue you are referring to is settled now, and the person in question has agreed to be "good" from now on.

    Now back to a more general note, you haven't read what was in some of the posts that we had to remove in the past, so you have no idea of the kind of things we have had to deal with and how many time we have to spend taking care of them. This would not be necessarry if people would just follow a couple of simple rules (no off-topic posting, no insulting,...).

    Some people also seem to think it' s ok to insult someone if they call it "friendly banter" afterwards. That's possible, but usually that's not what it seems like when you just read the text. A lot of people forget that written words, without the proper context, can and will often be interpreted wrongly. That's why smilies were invented. Use them!

    Some of the moderator team have been taking the insults very much to heart, and some have even threatened to resign a coupel fo times. I hope you understand that without moderators, there won't be a tMP...

    As dyl already mentioned, we are having a discussion about how to handle this kind of things in the future, and you will probably see some announcements in the near future. If there are any suggestions in how the moderating of tMP could be improved, they are certainly welcome. Thatmeans, how can we make sure that all members follows the rules, without us having to edit/move/delete posts all the time? Do you have examples from other forums? Do we need to adapt our rules or make them clearer? etc.

    It could all be so simple: if you see a request of a warning by a moderator, comply. If you don't agree, contact him or her by PM and explain your position. If you see a post by someone else that you think is out of line, use the "report bad post" button and let the mods take care of it. That's all.

    Finally, if there are people who feel their "freedom" is limited too much on tMP, they are free to start a forum of their own. That's the real meaning of "freedom of speech"!

    Thanks for your feedback,

  13. stevetrom

    stevetrom Well-Known Member

    thats why I take any comments, by anyone on this (or any other website) regarfing the performance of my (or any other) band as less important than the comments made by the adjudicator.

    even totallyy inexperienced adjudicators have to start somewhere,

    anyway we are both well off topic and will get our wrists slapped (or our posts removed;) ) if we carry on
  14. Chunky

    Chunky Active Member


    Can I just address your comments.

    1) I agree nobody should be party to abuse and threats. I never said the mod's or any member should have to accept it as part of their role!

    2) No I haven't always seen the comments that have been written because I am not privvy to the moderators forum!

    3) I nowhere mentioned 'freedom of speech' or lack of it.

    I appreciated Dyl's comments because he understood I was not criticising the mod's just offering an observation. I am not certain you have taken them in the same way.

    I posted my original comments as a way of stimulating the debate. Surely happy users = happy moderators, please see it as that and not a direct atttack on the moderators.
  15. Jan H

    Jan H Moderator Staff Member

    Hi Chunky, I'm sorry if I was not clear enough (English is not my first language, so I sometimes seem to have trouble with this). I really do appreciate your contribution. Perhaps I shouldn't have started my reply with "hi chunky", because it wasn't aimed specifically at you.
    I also know you didn't mention "freedom of speech", but there have been other people in the past who did this, and I wanted to react to them.
  16. Chunky

    Chunky Active Member

    Understood! ;)
  17. Leyfy

    Leyfy Active Member

    No, but some people use the forum to post offensive things about other people and hiding behind usernames, or creating new usernames to post them. As myself being one of the people who had something I found completely offensive being posted about me (twice, by the same person under different user names, both posts/comments removed by moderators) I agree with this system. I feel if you cannot put your name to it - don't write it!

    Yes, everyone's opinion is valid, regardless of experience but if they are not man or woman enough to put your name to it - then don't say it! I can occasionally be outspoken, but you all know where I am and the band I play for, so that means I have to take responsibility for the things that I write.
  18. Bass Trumpet

    Bass Trumpet Active Member

    It's not Chunky's either - he's from Norfolk :biggrin:
  19. a very flat b

    a very flat b Member

    Are there enough Mods on TMp?

    You talk about the ammount of time you give up, and to me this is obvious. Looking at the online list it is unusual to not see Jan H, etc.

    Maybe with more Mods it would be possible to have some form of rota (maybe this happens)?

    In any case you do a great job for us. For us who take the subject of the thread being refered to it is a pain to have to read all the rubish when we are looking for guidance from other users.
  20. Chunky

    Chunky Active Member

    Not true, I am as much from Norfolk as you are Duncan! ;)

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