You Wont Like This. Tuff!!

Discussion in 'The Adjudicators' Comments' started by JonP, May 8, 2006.


Should we employ free masons to judge band contests?

  1. Yes

    45 vote(s)
  2. No

    44 vote(s)
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  1. Wonky_Baton

    Wonky_Baton Active Member

    I have been a mason for 10 years and if anyone wants to look up my contest record as a conductor you will see loads of **** results and no favouritism at all (even when I conducted at contests in full regalia to help the bands cause). However if my bands results now dramatically improve in the next 12 months there might be something in it !! :p

    N.B. Please note my band Spennymoor got best performed march at the DLI contest a full 32 hours before this post and I wore a cream jacket and no apron. ;)
  2. hornblower

    hornblower Member

    Hi Wonky,
    just think how well we would have faired if it was the case... ;-) not sure it would help me up here in my new band though.....

    TIMBONE Active Member

    Will :eek: that would mean me stopping work on my latest creation, "Variations on a Deep Space Ninth" :biggrin:
  4. brassneck

    brassneck Active Member

    - did you ever finish 'Spoctrum'? :tongue:
  5. Will the Sec

    Will the Sec Active Member

    Star Trek Brass Band Pieces

    OK, there's your starters - I'll add 'Voyager of Discovery' by Captain Goff.

    Make it so....

  6. starperformer

    starperformer Member

    Robert Simpson - Vulcano
  7. Jan H

    Jan H Moderator Staff Member

    Ahum, I hate to spoil the fun, but I think you're all going a little bit off-topic here.

    Please continue the Star Trek stuff in the Random category...
  8. b ross

    b ross Member

    My head hurts after trying to digest the content of this thread.

    I've come to the conclusion that the above quote is one of the most sensible I've read.

    I'm not sure what the origional point of the thread was trying to achieve, why pick free masonary? I'm sure between us we could think of reasons why every single adjudicator shouldn't be in the box.
    What has happened to trust and respect? Of course I don't agree with every contest result, however I respect the decision of the adjudicator and trust that it has been made on musical grounds.
    In all walks of life we have favouritism and maybe it has/does happen in our contests but I'd like to hope that is not the case.

    These are the sort of discussions that really put me off the brass band movement. We can be a fickle bunch of conspiracy mongers at times.
  9. 2nd man down

    2nd man down Moderator Staff Member

    Here here. It's exactly why the rest of the world sees this movement as a load of "This one time, at band camp" nerds.
  10. midwalesman

    midwalesman Member

    As much as I don't really believe that t'masons are involved in covert activities in the banding world, to suggest that comments like these actually influence the thinking of outside musicians is quite untrue. Most of the musicians I know, those outside banding but within the Western traditions laugh at banding because we wear silly uniforms, try our best to fit into a beer guzzling stereotype (as proposed by Brassed Off), often play outdated repertoire that frequently belongs to a neo-romantic or Victrorian era, still have tribal urges that encourage isolated actions by individual bands instead of a cohesive movement unit, find it curious how we only think that bandsmen can comment officially on music.

    HOWEVER.....these same people have their own traditions and stereotypes that we can laugh at them for. Symphonic tradition, the players criticise our music yet they play the same repertoire over and over, known as the classical canon, i.e. Mozart. Beethoven and Brahms. Rarely do you hear modern music. They wear black and white and tails (also Victorian concept) and have peformance practices that are an essential part of their customs and tradition.

    The main difference between "them" and "us" in perceptions, is that they can change, i.e. coloured shirt performance without tails, their main performance is the concert and therefore they can play whatever they want now and again. Whilst in banding you wait for the next contest to do that.

    So beyond the actual freemason argument, they think badly of banding not due to the arguments about adjudication but because we have a retro outlook on the performance practices that we have. For example, how would an orchestra fare if they were told from next year they could not tune up before a concert or at least not tune up on stage before their main performance???

    Ah well, what's the point of highlighting these things, might as well stay as a member of Victorian historiana.

    Sorry, I ramble....
  11. starperformer

    starperformer Member

    this is mostly perception - i can think of more bands that have deviated from the norm both with uniform and music than i can orchestras. in fact many orchestras are stuck far further back in time than the victorian era - and that is where their particular bizarre brand of patronising snobbery comes from.
  12. midwalesman

    midwalesman Member

    Yup, it is mostly perception but that's what the post by 2ndmandown was commenting on. I agree that some bands do deviate more than orchestras but how many have actually reverted back to something more traditional? I think you're being a wee bit unkind to orchestras in the snobbery ratings, is that not just a perception of what orchestras are about. The snobbery factor developed during the 19th century because orchestras developed indoors and bands developed outdoors, for different sections of the class system and therefore had different levels of what can be defined as rational recreation. There is an interesting book by William Webber about musicking in the 19th century which highlights the orchestral world and it's development as an entertainment device.
  13. JonP

    JonP Member

    Very close poll, and over 5000 views! Splendid!!!
  14. brassintheed

    brassintheed Member

    This is a bit silly really. People from Liverpool may favour other people from Liverpool, Someone might have a friend who conducts a particular band etc etc There are all sorts of possible prejudices out there so you either accept them or make the contest 'blind' and ensure they can't apply.

    To have prejudices about a particular group just because we don't understand them is really daft. That's the basis of racism (not understanding different cultures). If an organisation wants to keep it's activities private then that's their matter. I'm not a mason, and I never will be, however I am very aware that alot of the 'secret activities' involve charity work which they'd rather do in private rather than blowing their own trumpet. i know for a fact that there is nothing 'sinister' going on, yes they look after their own, but who doesn't?: how many times have people gone out of the way to help someone purely on the basis that they play in a Brass Band? or they support the same footbal club etc etc.

    The masons are also on the whole big supporters of Brass Bands and other forms of music.
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2006
  15. brassintheed

    brassintheed Member

    The problem is that in general a lot of the above is true about banding except that the repertoire has expanded to include film and show music ;-)
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 6, 2006
  16. wantapie

    wantapie New Member

    I've only just come across this thread and it's very interesting. The thought that being a member of a secret society such as The Freemasons is not worth thinking about too much. What about Rotary, The Lions Club, Round Table etc do you think that being a member of these societies is beneficial? I hope not but you never know do you? Will any top conductors or adjudicators hold thier hands up and admit to being a member of the above ? Shouldn't think so but you never know. Happy New Year everyone.
  17. BigHorn

    BigHorn Active Member

    I should think being a member of the Rotary, Lions Club or Round Table is as harmless as being a member of Brass Band.... and probably more beneficial to society as a whole due to their well known charitable activities. If I was a member I certainly wouldn't be ashamed to say so. Why do you think they are so sinister?
  18. wantapie

    wantapie New Member

    I totally agree with you and may be response reads the wrong way. I do agree that Rotary etc is probably a charitable belonging in society but I still have concerns in my mind about masons but there again Im probabaly talking rubbish. I'm sure they are all very nice people but I understand that they look out for one another and help each other. Think I have post Christmas blues and negaitve thoughts.
  19. oddbod

    oddbod Member

    Well we've blamed everyone else over the years!

    One band I was with for a while had more than its share of Masons... didn't help us! - worst results I've ever contributed to! hah!
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