You Wont Like This. Tuff!!

Discussion in 'The Adjudicators' Comments' started by JonP, May 8, 2006.

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Should we employ free masons to judge band contests?

  1. Yes

    45 vote(s)
    50.6%
  2. No

    44 vote(s)
    49.4%
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  1. JonP

    JonP Member

    Im afraid you ovbviously have not been moving in the same circles as myself, as this has been a hot topic of conversation in every band ive been involved in from 4th section to the very best.

    Ive no problem with free masons, but it would be a little daft to try and say there is no concearn about anyone who may have a hidden agenda judging anything., and that is the point im trying to make, and the question im asking. Others may not be willing to come on a public forum and tell every one of their concearn, ask the opinion of others and begin debating it, but it is a real concearn, or at least its a topic of conversation.

    Im afraid your comments are not constructive.
     
  2. JonP

    JonP Member

    Another supurb comment rapier, thanks so much for adding such inspirational new thoughts and ideas to our debate! :-0
     
  3. Rapier

    Rapier Supporting Member

    Because you don't like my comments, doesn't mean they are less important than yours. You only want posts that agree with your deluded conspiracy theories?

    If any skulduggery does occur at contests, it could be for any number of reasons. You appear to have a low opinion of Freemasonary which seems to influence your views. I have a neutral opinion on Freemasons and can't take your 'Secret Handshakes Affects Band Contests' Headlines seriously. You don't write for the Sun or News of the World do you? ;)
     
  4. JonP

    JonP Member

    No No, sir, with all due respect please read this thread again and then try and comprehend what we have been saying. I do not have a negative view of freemasonry at all, all i have done is publically aired a concearn that is reguarly discussed in band rooms up and down the country, and opend a discussion here to see what the view of my peers is and then formulate an opinion.

    You are trying to tell me what my views are, and im telling you now the whole point of this discussion was to form an opinion, not express one.


    Its not that i dont like your posts, but comments like "it's pathetic" are not constructive. Formulate an arguement think it through and then post it here and as you will see from the posts that have preceeded yours, you will find people will find it hard to disagree with a well constructed argument. i.e. starperformer and bones.

    Silly short comments, like yours, are pointless and are not a valid input to a debate like this one where people are obviously thinking about the issue at hand. You can make them of course but why not tell us why YOU think it is pathetic. Your flipancy implies to me that you must think the rest of us are obviuously daft as over 3000 views have been sent on this thread and over 120 replies. Are you calling us all pathetic!

    Im sure with your experience of the police force you could actually have a very poinient and valid imput.
    Think a little, with respect.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2006
  5. Rapier

    Rapier Supporting Member

    I have posted my views. The fact that I choose not to write a page at a time does not lessen my views, surely?

    I'll state them again, for you. I cannot and do not believe that Band contests have been, are being, or will be, influenced in anyway, shape or form by membership of the Freemasons. Any more than I would believe that a Welsh judge would pick a Welsh band over an English one.

    Why? Because I think that the guys and (gals?) that sit in the Box are actually trying to pick, what they believe is, the best band on the day. Nothing more nothing less. And for that reason I believe all this 'conspiracy' nonsense, exactly that. Nonsense!

    And to paraphrase a Thread title I saw once, If you don't like this. Tuff! ;)
     
  6. andywooler

    andywooler Supporting Member

    Not in my part of the country it hasn't - time for a poll perhaps: "Has the subject of masonry in adjudicating circles been a discussion point in your bandroom?"
    I for one, will not be surprised by the result of such a poll.
     
  7. JonP

    JonP Member

    Using your example then, why dont english ref's do the england footbal games, and the Brazilians the Brazilian games? Surely there is a reason that during the world cup as teams get through ref's go home??
     
  8. Cornishwomble

    Cornishwomble Active Member

    I've played all over the UK and I've never ever, in 30 years of banding heard this come up!
    As a member of your peers my opinion is that I think it's ridiculous to think that Freemasonary affects results and think that there a loads of other factors that you could come up with to chuck at an adjudicators' integrity.

    Please don't slate me for saying I think it's ridiculous, it's MY opnion as a member of your peers ;)
     
  9. Will the Sec

    Will the Sec Active Member

    Lord CornishWomble of Wimbledon AFC???? When did that happen? And was there a dodgy handshake involved? :rolleyes:
     
  10. JonP

    JonP Member

    I wouldnt do that as you have backed the comment up by stating your experience of our movement. 30 years is a long time. But i wouldnt call our debate pathetic either. As obviously neither would you.
     
  11. Anonymous_user

    Anonymous_user New Member

    You're assuming what, about the contributor and their experience of the police force?

    I thought this thread was about the influence of freemasons at band contests. Bit of a sweeping statement regarding our police forces. Do all police forces have "intitutionalised freemasonry" up and down the country as well as brass bands?

    What about SA bands and the Jubilate lodge? Does the SA also have 'insitutionalised freemasonry"? Was the buy out of The British Bandsman just a way of helping out fellow masons?:rolleyes:

    I must agree with earlier comments that, in my case over 40 years in Brass Bands, I have never heard the subject of "surprise results" or "duff results" being atributed to masons. I have played in many well known and not so well known bands up and down the country and all that concerns them is music making to the best of their ability.

    If you are aware of so many bands "up and down the country" with this, IMHO phobia, why not name them?

    If all you're trying to do is stimulate a debate to formulate an opinion I would reckon your mind should be well made up by now. Probably the same opinion you had when stimulating this debate as I think you doth protest too much.
     
  12. 2nd man down

    2nd man down Moderator Staff Member

    I think he may have got mixed up between freemason and stone mason, and in that case I agree with him, we should NEVER let a brickie adjudicate.


    *The word brickie was used solely for it's comedy value, i fully acknowledge that there is a world of difference between a stone mason and a brickie!* :rolleyes:
     
  13. Thirteen Ball

    Thirteen Ball Active Member

    I've personally never heard the masons argument for duff contest results. There's a lot levelled at adjudicators from deafness, national bias, to blatant favouritism and corruption, some of it based on evidence, much of it fueled by beer.

    The one thing I've read in this post I will dispute is that closed adjudication means the chaps in the box don't know who's on stage. Of course they do. I've spoken with several adjudicators on the subject. All have admitted to being able to pick the odd band out, and a couple admitted to being 75-80% certain most of the time.

    We'll never get a 100% fair contest and even if we did, you'd never get EVERYONE happy with the result. Best to just live with it, mason or not.
     
  14. Rapier

    Rapier Supporting Member

    That was brilliant! Made me laugh out loud. :D
     
  15. brasscrest

    brasscrest Active Member

    Being able to "pick the odd band out" does not equate to the adjudicator knowing who is on stage all of the time, or even a significant part of the time. And I'm not sure that just talking with the adjudicators in question would resolve that question. Being certain in a discussion AFTER the fact is not the same as being certain while the performance in in progress and being scored.

    The problem with this discussion in general is that there is no real data - just feelings and innuendo. Is there any evidence, shown through analysis of actual results, that bands conducted by or connected to Masonry are given preferential treatment by adjudicators also involved in Masonry? If there was anything significant going on here, that would be the way to find it. If it doesn't show in the actual results, it's of no consequence.
     
  16. 2nd man down

    2nd man down Moderator Staff Member


    *takes a bow*
    I thank yaw! :biggrin:
     
  17. jingleram

    jingleram Active Member

    The poll is surprisingly balanced actually, despite the general theme in the discussion seems to be that membership of the Mason's shouldn't make a difference! Intresting!
     
  18. brasscrest

    brasscrest Active Member

    Only 32 votes though - not exactly a large sample.
     
  19. jingleram

    jingleram Active Member

    Even so, I can't recall posts in favour of not employing masons as adjudicators...But that may just be my memory fading with age!
     
  20. Will the Sec

    Will the Sec Active Member

    So, let's say that this argument wins the day, and all who are Freemasons are barred from adjudicating.

    Wouldn't it ironic if all adjuducators were Freemasons?

    The following poll would then appear.

    Who will whinge more about the death of contesting (and maybe banding)?

    (a) JonP
    (b) any of the other 18 tMPers who voted against Freemasons adjudicating:

    OK, now when we're finished with Freemasons, can we start on Trekkies?
     
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