Yorkshire Area Championship adjudicators

Discussion in 'The Adjudicators' Comments' started by chingchongchew, Sep 5, 2017.

  1. Ive just seen the adjudicators have been announced for Championship section at Yorkshire
    I see that Dr Robert Childs will be one of them have the organisers forgotten that his brother conducts Black Dyke
  2. Euphonium Lite

    Euphonium Lite Active Member

    I'm sure they haven't forgotten although point taken - it does raise a potential conflict of interest.

    I'm sure Dr Robert will be professional enough for this to not have any bearing on his final placings - however that wont be much consolation to some of the other bands if Dyke do end up near the top of the pile.

    Does seem an odd choice, considering
  3. 2nd tenor

    2nd tenor Well-Known Member

    As Black Dyke were surely going to come top anyway what difference does it make? :) .

    More seriously isn't the adjudicator supposed to be blind to / kept unaware of who is playing and as such unable to favour any particular band? If not then surely any adjudicator could fix any competition? I'm more inclined to be sorry for the Childs brothers as a top result for BD might lead to cries of 'fix' and a harsh judgement some friction between siblings.
  4. Tom-King

    Tom-King Well-Known Member

    Let's face it, if any band and adjudicator ever conspired to ensure a specific result, it's always been possible to make the box aware of when specific bands are on stage with something as simple as a text message or coughing signal (etc)...

    And that's just the deliberate indications to the box - if you've got a very distinctive soloist (or several of them even) who are well known then the adjudicator can't help but know which band is on stage.

    At that level (lots of top bands in one very competitive section) it'd be virtually impossible to find an adjudicator without ties to one or more bands - and this ofcourse holds for Dr Bob too, are we going to suggest bias in either direction from his recent association with grimethorpe next? (For the record: ofcourse not!!)

    End of the day it'll never be perfect at that level (lower sections not so much) - we either trust the adjudicators to give an honest set of results (in their naturally subjective opinions - we can't always agree and that's okay) or we pack the lot in and lose an integral part of what makes banding the most fun form of music to be involved with.

    TL;Dr - nothing to this, just get on with it
  5. Euphonium Lite

    Euphonium Lite Active Member

    Hence my comment

    To be fair most of the top bands do have a unique sound and I think most adjudicators “know” when one of the top bands is on stage. They will almost certainly be aware of the “buzz” in the hall as well. Whether that affects them – I think for the majority it doesn’t, but perhaps lesser experienced adjudicators could be swayed if they recognised a Dyke performance.

    Having said that, I also would suggest that Dyke should reasonably be “better” than perhaps one or 2 in their Area section – there would likely be a lot of internal discussion if they didn’t play to their usual high standards.

    Don’t know about Childs wars. I don’t know either well enough to comment on how they “get on” away from the public view. I do think it’s a bit odd though that Robert has been invited to put himself in that position, and that he has accepted, but I also guess it probably isn’t the first time that one has adjudicated the other, and it probably wont be the last. I would also guess that they are both confident in their own and each others abilities that it wont make any difference.
    Tom-King likes this.
  6. Fettler

    Fettler Member

    What a bitter little thread. Both of the Childs Bros. are actual Dr's of banding, and to suggest they would do anything to harm the patient is ludicrous.
    Also, if you discounted Robert as an adjudicator from any area where either he or another family member is active or recently has been as a conductor or player then there would probably be nowhere he could adjudicate. It would be sad to lose or waste his talent because of this.
  7. Mello

    Mello Active Member

    No one seems to have realised the pressure in that type of situation can be double edged . Bob will be very well aware what some people will think if Nick wins the contest . If Nick deserves to win on merit, the pressure is actually on Bob to resist the temptation of placing Nick 2nd ( and bow to what could be an easy get out which will keep the doubters off his back ).

    Knowing both exceedingly well ...Bob will never sway to family loyalty , nor to audience reaction. He is straight down the middle.......simply because his own integrity is paramount and simple.
    If Nick deserves victory he will rightly get it, as he will have earned it . If not ...he wont... simple as that ...whats more if Bob feels Nicks band deserve last ...that is where they will be placed.
    What is more ...Nick would do exactly the same and expect no less.

    I know both exceedingly well and I assure any doubters , that whatever the result ..it will be an honest opinion . may not be yours , nor mine, ( but then again -we aint adjudicating ).
    Remember -the performance & interpretation of music , is and always will be , subjective .

    But give the adjudicators credit .as they cherish their own , well earned reputations and integrity above all else.
    Accidental, Repman, 2nd tenor and 2 others like this.
  8. Fettler

    Fettler Member

    Well said. I don't have your level of personal insight but never doubted either man's integrity. I just hope that a) small mindedness does not force Bob to withdraw, and b) this issue is not raised again post contest to justify anyone's sour grapes.
    Euphonium Lite, midlandman and Mello like this.
  9. Jerry

    Jerry Member

    Hear, hear. No doubts as to Dr Childs's integrity should be voiced unless there were some evidence of bias. Which there isn't. That should be the end of the story - including, as you rightly say, no post-contest sour grapes.
    Tom-King and Euphonium Lite like this.
  10. Anno Draconis

    Anno Draconis Well-Known Member

    Bit difficult to find a credible adjudicator for the top section who has no previous association of any sort with any Yorkshire championship band or any of their conductors, anyway, I'd have thought.

    And just as an aside, anyone who suggests that any hint of bias could in any way enter the equation is effectively conceding that closed adjudication is a waste of time because the adjudicators must know who is playing in order for said bias to take effect.
  11. Barry92

    Barry92 New Member

    I think the issue isn't closed adjudication but the adjudicator having his brother take one of the bands. I'm sure IF foul play was to be done (not for 1 second suggesting it is) then it would be simple to do. Also this adjudicator recently left another competing Yorkshire band with less than perfect feelings.
  12. Anno Draconis

    Anno Draconis Well-Known Member

    Which begs the question: If it's as simple as you suggest to circumvent the closed adjudication process (should one wish to do so), why on earth do we persist with it? And if it ISN'T simple to circumvent, why do we appear nonetheless to have no faith in it and ask these leading questions of adjudicators who've been locked away in a box to prevent just such insinuations of foul play?
  13. Barry92

    Barry92 New Member

    Perhaps it's not the closed box system that's in question. Maybe the question is why an adjudicator with close family connections has been engaged? Why did he accept ? Surely he knew it would be controversial.
  14. Accidental

    Accidental Supporting Member

    Because closed adjudication isn't about that.
    Many contest oprganiser keep it because its what the adjudicators want - I've heard many say they prefer to be shut off from outside distractions and onlookers and find it easier that way to focus just on what they're hearing
  15. Barry92

    Barry92 New Member

    Less distractions should give adjudicators a greater opportunity to focus purely on their aural senses (and score ) rather than conductor dancing and pre conceived band wuality
  16. stevetrom

    stevetrom Well-Known Member

    I was at a summer school one year and the subject of closed/open adjudication came up one of the Childs (I honestly can't remember which) was very much in favour of closed adjudication - you should judge music with your ears not your eyes

Share This Page