York taken over by Buffet Crampon; brand to be discontinued

Discussion in 'The Rehearsal Room' started by fsteers, Aug 2, 2010.

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  1. fsteers

    fsteers Member

    Now that York is officially history, where do Black Dyke and Cory, Dave Thornton, Dave Childs, Joe Cook, Richard Marshall, Owen Farr, et al., end up?

    Maybe Paddy has a book?
  2. jockinafrock

    jockinafrock Active Member

    Why should they end up anywhere? :-? I'm sure they're perfectly happy where they are...
  3. kriseuph

    kriseuph Member

    is this true? there is nothing on 4br
  4. Jan H

    Jan H Moderator Staff Member

    apparently it is:

    I will change the title of this thread, because the original poster didn't make it very clear
  5. WoodenFlugel

    WoodenFlugel Moderator Staff Member

    I'm not sure what the fascination is with where the 'York' artists are 'going'... (well, I am but I'm too polite to say it here)

    Its a shame that (presumably) people back in the factory will be losing jobs over this, but to be frank there was never the room in the market to have that many companies manufacturing specialist brass band instruments. It was inevitable that at least one of them was going to go to the wall.
  6. defnotsimon

    defnotsimon Member

    In answer to the original question.

    There is 3 options.

    1. They will continue to play their York instruments.
    2. They will be asked by another brand to endorse their instruments.
    3. They will buy a different brand of instrument with their own money.

    Well wasnt that exciting.
  7. TheMusicMan

    TheMusicMan tMP Founder Staff Member

    Yep, exactly.

    fsteers makes it sound as though it's the end of the road for those people/bands that were indicated... hehe.
  8. agentorange

    agentorange Member

    On the other side of the coin, are we now going to see some real bargains as shops sell off their stocks of York instruments?
  9. tubafran

    tubafran Active Member

    will they be cheaper than plant pots? ;)

    Apologies mods - just an observation.

    Cheap maybe but will there be issues with repairs and spares?
  10. agentorange

    agentorange Member

    Thats the chance you take i suppose.
  11. Thirteen Ball

    Thirteen Ball Active Member

    You never know, some might go up.

    I know round-stamp sov tenor horns in good 2nd-hand nick retail at well above the general market value for other brands of horn.

    Must confess to much preferring the York BB I played with your band, Neil, to the Sov I went back to at my own band. Can't speak for the other instruments but if all the basses york made were that good, they might have just taken a step up in price due to the instant scarcity value - although I understand the rest of your bass section weren't so enamoured of them?

    Like you say though, like owning an old car, parts and servicing become an issue - which is also likely to be a consideration on price.
  12. mclaugh

    mclaugh Member

    Hypothetical options aren't real options.

    If you really believe that Dyke, Cory, David Childs and the rest are really going to leave hundreds, if no thousands, of £s on the table and pay all their expenses, including travel to and from masterclasses and concerts around the world, completely out of their own pocket on top of that, I have a bridge in Brooklyn I'll sell to you; and if you believe that they'll forego the financial and publicity benefits of sponsorship and buy their own instruments with their own money, I have a tropical island in the middle of Mare Tranquilitatis I'll sell you, because "option 1" and "option 3" ain't gonna happen.

    The only real option, both musically and financially, is signing with a new sponsor. Probably won't happen overnight, but it WILL happen, and in some cases, sooner than you might expect.

    The only question is who the sponsor is going to be.
  13. WoodenFlugel

    WoodenFlugel Moderator Staff Member

    I don't subscribe to the notion that buying an instrument for a defunct manufacturer would have any issues with repairs etc. Let's be honest, we're not talking about jet engines or Saturn 5 rockets are we? If you know a decent repairer they'll be able to fix any problems for you - probably better than the originating factory in some cases. As for spares availability - well in most cases spares amount to a trigger screw, some valve felts or a water key cork - all of which can be bought from any of the online shops and most are one size fits all anyway. The only worry would be if someone stuck a screwdriver through the valve or dropped the instrument on its bell - but that's a big problem even if your instrument is currently in manufacture.

    (Not that I'm looking) If I liked a York instrument and the price was right, warranty / spares etc would hardly be a consideration.
  14. Vegasbound

    Vegasbound Active Member

    From press release!

    Mantes La Ville, August 1, 2010 – Buffet Crampon, top musical instruments manufacturer and world leader in clarinets is acquiring Schreiber & Keilwerth, the internationally renowned German musical instruments manufacturer.
    The Buffet Crampon Group, headed by Antoine Beaussant, is acquiring all the assets of the German manufacturer Schreiber & Keilwerth, which had filed for insolvency in March 2010.
    The new Buffet Crampon Deutschland GmbH will continue the W. Schreiber & Julius Keilwerth brands which are part of the European musical heritage.
    The area of Markneukirchen has a long tradition in musical instruments manufacturing. The modern factory at Markneukirchen has a capacity of 50.000 instruments per year. Its integration into the Buffet Crampon Group will save more than 140 jobs.
    « We are proud and happy to welcome the Schreiber & Keilwerth team in the Buffet Crampon Group. Our companies have been working together for more than 40 years» declares Antoine Beaussant. «Our profession in musical instruments is a combination of know-how and art. The skills of our employees, combined with a high-precision technology, are our most valuable assets».
    « The W. Schreiber & Julius Keilwerth brands will perfectly complement the Buffet Crampon brands in some markets where we are currently not present. We expect additional 8 million Euros turnover», adds Antoine Beaussant.
    Buffet Crampon is the market leader in Boehm system clarinets, and manufactures oboes, bassoons, English horns and saxophones. The Schreiber German system clarinets and bassoons, as well as the Julius Keilwerth saxophones will be an important addition.
    The York instruments have never found their place in the Brass Band world and will be discontinued. Buffet Crampon will pursue its strong development in this market through its Besson and Antoine Courtois brands, which are experiencing a period of growth, particularly in the USA and Europe.
    Argos Soditic, 92% shareholder of the Buffet Crampon Group, has brought its financial support to the transaction. «Schreiber & Keilwerth has been an important supplier for Buffet Crampon for years. The combination of these two companies brings many synergies. It is an important strategic move for Buffet Crampon which is strengthening its position as a market leader » declares Louis Godron, General Manager ofArgos Soditic .
  15. WoodenFlugel

    WoodenFlugel Moderator Staff Member

    :confused: And your point is?

    EDIT: Oops sorry if that was a bit abrupt, but I can't understand why you have highlighted the sentences you have :confused:
  16. Jan H

    Jan H Moderator Staff Member

    Well, first the bands have to find another brand that wants to sponsor them. In the current economic climate, this maybe not so obvious.

    The obvious thing would be that Besson takes over the contracts (they are also part of the Buffet Crampon group). But I don't know which bands / players are currently already endorsed by Besson (Steven Mead?), so maybe Besson won't have enough marketing budget to add them to their list?

    We don't know, it's all just speculation, so the only thing we can do is wait and see...

    But I'm glad to see that you are the owner of such prime real estate. Good for you!
  17. Kjata

    Kjata Member

    Could it be possible that York over-extended themselves financially, given that Dyke and Cory have a full set of instruments each, as well as several soloists to market the instruments?
    To be fair they I don't think they have had the sales they possibly expected from the instruments, considering the quailty and good reports (mostly!). (I'm only basing this on what I have seen from different bands).
  18. Thirteen Ball

    Thirteen Ball Active Member

    Depends what the deal was.

    A full set of brass instruments must be sailing close to £100k based on list prices, but if York sold them to the bands but only charged cost, (for example,) they could supply both bands relatively cheaply and not be that far out of pocket.

    Obviously if the bands were given the sets of instruments - then that's a different matter altogether.

    Anyone know which it was?
  19. HornPlayerMK

    HornPlayerMK Member

    My understanding was that York had given the instruments to the bands, not sold at cost.

    Regarding the livelihoods of the staff who worked in the factory (which is the more serious of the issues being discussed here), my understanding is that some staff were laid off quite some time ago. However, because Buffet Crampon are keeping the Schreiber and Keilwerth brands (mainly double reeds and saxes) the factory will remain open and most of the remaining jobs will stay - good news I would say!

    Don't be so sure that other manufacturers will be ready to throw money at the artists who previously endorsed York. These are obviously all great players but many companies philosophy (and I can think of a few) is that they do not play people to play their instruments, the players choose to play them because they like them. In other cases, the budgets simply do not exist any more! Obviously players still get paid for any work they do, but that is to be expected.

    I've always thought that it's a better sign of the quality of an instrument if a top player chooses to play it because they like it, not because they are on a salary by the manufacturer!
  20. pbirch

    pbirch Member

    I always thought that the York range was too similar to the Besson range, they certainly feel the same in the hand, now if buffet were to revive the Courtois brand it would offer a real choice for players with real differences between the instruments.
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