Women in Brass Bands

Discussion in 'The Rehearsal Room' started by LadyBrassBand, Dec 17, 2014.

  1. owain_s

    owain_s Member

    Don't remove one potential barrier, because others might still exist? What a bizarre position that was to take!
     
  2. MoominDave

    MoominDave Well-Known Member

    It doesn't stack up as a real life position to take - so I wonder if what he was saying was more along the lines of "Even if you do this, if you have underlying problems, it won't fix them"?

    But I wasn't listening to it...
     
  3. Bbmad

    Bbmad Active Member

    Not at all bizarre. Everyone knows that varsity educated men in their 40s make for the best leaders. Brass Bands would benefit from having a few more public schoolboys who know what they are talking about.
     
  4. 2nd tenor

    2nd tenor Well-Known Member

     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2014
  5. owain_s

    owain_s Member

    Sorry, I wasn't clear, I meant that it would be an ad hominem dismissal of the (hypothetical) young persons' views, but in any case I doubt this was the intention.
     
  6. BandFanatic

    BandFanatic Member

    There is also the ad hominem dismissal of non players views. But it's ok, 2nd Tenor has the full weight and backing of the always accurate Wikipedia.
     
  7. 2nd tenor

    2nd tenor Well-Known Member

    That's ok, mostly we try to be clear but sometimes we are not and sometimes the reader doesn't understand.

    Whatever, I really think it's time to focus on the OP and agree to differ where we do.
     
  8. MoominDave

    MoominDave Well-Known Member

    In case my reply got lost in the last few posts - #240 at 10:29.

    I think where the drop in communication came was in my applying the (fairly unarguable) idea that there is a natural tendency to 'set' in one's thinking as one ages, that kicks in at different ages for different people, to the specific example at hand. Not so many people (but still more than is comfortable to live amongst) fall into this trap before they leave youth. Almost nobody reaches old age without it happening. So by elimination middle age is the usual venue in which this occurs.
    But it doesn't seem to me that we are talking about a usual sample of middle-aged people here in thinking of the Munich Phil management of the 1980s. Rather, these were people who saw fit to be extremely reactionary in the face of a fight that a wider worldview would have instantly shown to be both hopeless and shameful. Theirs weren't the actions of people who took an active interest in integrating new ideas and information into their minds, but rather the actions of people who had already decided how the world was, and saw it as their mission to maintain their faulty perceptions in the face of the evidence by altering the world to fit.
    In other words - this specific bunch of people had clearly already submitted to the age-dependent 'setting' threshold in their thinking. And it is my observation that the younger that someone does 'set', the more zealously dogmatic they are about it. There's probably something about the nature of truth and each individual's varying need for certainty in this...

    I hope that makes my brief off-the-cuff thought a little bit clearer? "Ageism", specifically in its form of applying "a tendency to regard older persons as debilitated" (as www.dictionary.com has it in the most pertinent of its definitions) to middle age, was nowhere present in my thinking, so far as I'm aware, even after having peered into my thoughts a bit more closely.

    Part of the problem is that the OP phrased themselves deliberately provocatively. For what it's worth, I think Steve Anker was probably factually correct in immediately calling them out as deliberately trolling in making that post, but there's no reason such a post can't be followed by a reasonable discussion - as indeed at many times in this thread it has. But that original apparently spiteful intent has carried forward to some extent, infecting the quality of the ongoing discourse.

    It's a difficult topic to discuss, as it always attracts people with contrasting views and often a great and not really justified sense of certainty based on systematically biased observation of the world around us. But I don't think we're doing too badly so far this time. Some needling, but in the main the lid has stayed happily on the simmering pot and Peter Bale hasn't so far as I've noticed had to break out the Flash to rub off the spillage from the hob.

    The 'Ad Hominem' accusations that went back and forth a few posts ago I think show nothing more than how difficult it is to be simultaneously sensitive to others and to make points that are usefully non-specific. I see how one could have suspected ageism from my post, carefully though I thought I'd written it, and hope this is cleared up now. Similarly, writing "Indeed the younger folk with their ‘modern’ ideas know less than they think and are near the start of an education process that will shape them throughout life" is rather incautious, and does read as hopelessly overgeneral and a bit provocative - despite the fact that it is fairly clear that you were only intending this as a background thought with an inadvertently omitted "sometimes" attached to it.
     
  9. 2nd tenor

    2nd tenor Well-Known Member

    You seem to have an issue and I want to help you with it. It's Christmas, peace and good will to all, etc.

    Please imagine that I am a figure of authority (I'm not but imagine it anyway) and that I have placed you on a stage to speak about your veiws on the OP. Please do gather your thoughts then speak, educate us with the observations and insights you have to offer to the debate.

    I really do hope that something you say will be useful and if I hear something that (to my mind) is then be sure that I'll say so.

    Please do begin as soon as you can .... but like near all in your potential audience I would like to hear a well thought out and logical speech - some support facts we can check up on would be good to. Good luck and remember to speak both clearly and in a friendly manner.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2014
  10. hobgoblin

    hobgoblin Member

    A truly excellent post which sums it all up concisely. I take it you still live at home with your parents?
     
  11. 2nd tenor

    2nd tenor Well-Known Member

    Thanks Dave, good points (thoughout all the post) and well made. An example of what's possible - note to self, 'must try harder'.;)
     
  12. 2nd tenor

    2nd tenor Well-Known Member

    Thankyou, much appreciated :). Mum and Dad are in the orchard helping the apples grow, been there a few years now. What about you?
     
  13. hobgoblin

    hobgoblin Member

    Nope, I'm still alive and well thanks.
     
  14. Bbmad

    Bbmad Active Member

    Please imagine that I am a figure of authority
    [/QUOTE]
    Ha ha you wish mate!
    Seriously though, that was a superb post, with very good points made in an erudite manner. No spelling mistakes at all, just wonderful. I do hope to see more posts of this quality very soon.
     
  15. Vegasbound

    Vegasbound Active Member

    This topic started me thinking along the lines of:

    Is the recruitment is carried out in brass bands a carry over from the so called amateur days? when players where poached or approached in secrecy?? even now ads for certain chairs carry the wording "in strictest confidence"......and hushed rumoured converstions on the subject of retainers!!

    Would it not be more honest and beneficial to advertise these positions openly and honestly?..........then hold blind auditions ?

    People forget that Ian Bousfield had to go through the same to win the Vienna Phil job, at the time he was principal trombone of the LSO!

    Just a few thoughts!
     
  16. Bbmad

    Bbmad Active Member

    As if the top bands even audition for new players
     
  17. 2nd tenor

    2nd tenor Well-Known Member

    Would that report have been on the 'Today' programme (between 6 and 9 am)? I believe that that programme will become available on iplayer, some indication of time heard (within the programme) would be helpful in targeting when to 'listen again'. Thanks, 2T.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 30, 2014
  18. Vegasbound

    Vegasbound Active Member

    Yes the Today programme, somwhere within 15 minutes either side of 8am I believe, although wasn't paying too much attention to the time!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 30, 2014
  19. 2nd tenor

    2nd tenor Well-Known Member

    The programme is available of iplayer (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04vk6kp I think). Unfortunatley I've not heard the interview yet and have listened from (effectively) 7.40 to 8.35 - but Mervin King has had a lot of interesting things to say. If I find it later I'll post the 'time'. Weston Sprott has a note on his facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/weston.sprott) about being on the programme with Clive Gillinson and expects to post the content (text) when he gets it. It seems that the excert on Today is part of a bigger seperate programme.
     
  20. Mesmerist

    Mesmerist Well-Known Member

    An interesting thread I missed on my banding break. The original poster didn't appear again then?
     

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