Why has banding suddenly become complicated???

Discussion in 'The Rehearsal Room' started by The Cornet King, Nov 13, 2004.

  1. The Cornet King

    The Cornet King Active Member

    Ok i know some of these ideas have been touched on in a number of other threads so thought i would make a single thread for it.

    Is anyone else starting to think Brass Banding is becoming far too bureaucratic and complicated???
    We now have 2 European Championships :-? (debate shall rage as to the 'legitimate' one, seems to be the EBBA that most are favouring.) The Besson one is now to run at the same time as the EBBA but in Harrogate.
    Who's gonna be the 'official' champion??

    We have an All England international masters doo dah thingy!
    And the new English association is announcing the England Masters to start in 2006

    Plus we now have two British Band Associations.

    Why has all this occurred so suddenly? Is there a potential disaster waiting to happen with all these shake ups??
    I'm starting to lose track of it all. Anyone else? :-?
  2. Nuke

    Nuke Active Member

    i never followed it in the first place so i have nothing to lose
  3. brassneck

    brassneck Active Member

    What is scarey is that TWO European Championships are being held on the same day, in TWO different countries. What's the competitive or commercial logic behind that? For the bands that have qualified under the 'existing' system to play in Groningen, are there going to be any penalties for not going there but then deciding to play at Harrogate? It will be interesting to see if the Scottish Co-op now decide to compete at Harrogate, after declining to play in Groningen. The best European bands cannot be in two venues simultaneously. :-?
  4. Highnote

    Highnote New Member

    The whole situation is now farcical! To some extent it is our own fault. The bands have the power to control their own (and the movements) destiny) but far too many bands and bandsman/women don't want to know about the organisation and control of banding. We all have the same 'we are only interested in playing, someone else will do the rest' attitude and this has led us to the situation we find ourselves in today.

    Bands must now take control of banding, both in the UK and in Europe. We should only support contests where bands themselves have a democratic input into the organision. If it means that privately run contests like the Masters and the Besson Europeans are consigned to the dustbin, then so be it.

    This a certainly a wake up call for the brass band movement.
  5. peatair

    peatair Member

    All the above is absolutely spot on. The organisation / control of banding happens at dozens of meetings up and down the country. Meetings are often held in a pub/club and are generally very poorly supported by the constituent bands. A good first step would be for EVERY band to be represented and to start pushing for changes which players want.

    If one tries to take a logical look at what might constitute a true championship then it would have to be something run in "heats" leading ultimately to a final. ANY registered band should be able to enter the heats and, at least in theory, therefore have a chance of getting through to the final. This logic should apply to a national or even international championship.

    If a contest is BY INVITATION ONLY then it is obvious that most bands have been prejudged by the organisers as being "not good enough." Also, if you happen to be in a damn good band which is not invited then ill feeling results.

    It seems to me that some of the events currently being run are put on for the self-glorification of certain individuals rather than for the overall good of brass banding. It is high time that the movement took stock and decided what it really wants.
  6. brasscrest

    brasscrest Active Member

    And the Besson contests could be seen as simply marketing efforts for one company. Dropping an organization such as the EBBA from involvement in their contests looks like a control issue to me.
  7. brassneck

    brassneck Active Member

    I see that the EBBA have been quick off the mark advertising the 2005 contest schedule plus details of the conducting competition on 4barsrest. Seems they are treating next year's event as normal. :-?
  8. bigybsfan

    bigybsfan New Member

    The EBBA EBBC will just simply be as the last the last EBBC's... The Besson EBBC will fail.
  9. ted

    ted Member

    Do you think that Besson would say to all the "Besson Artists" that they cannot attend the EBBC event?

    That'll take out the likes of David Childs, Robert Childs, Brett Baker, David Thornton, Roger Webster, Tomrod Flaten, Sheona White and others.

    Does Besson still have an influence over Black Dyke?

  10. bigybsfan

    bigybsfan New Member

    Even though Besson still have influence, i bet that Cory, Black Dyke and YBS )if they find a sponsor) will all attend the EBBA EBBC
  11. backrowbloke

    backrowbloke Member

    Why? Not attending the Wolrd championship, so why attend another EBBC?
    Given choice between concert revenue or a contest, know which one I would choose.
  12. Dave Payn

    Dave Payn Active Member

    The link between banding and 'sport' (if you class darts as sport) is growing ever closer. In darts there are two separate organisations now, each with their own World Championship, (Phil Taylor usually wins one, Raymond van Barneveld the other) but at least they hold their tournaments in separate weeks!
  13. Moy

    Moy Active Member

    As a very good pal of mine would say " It's all empire building pal"

    Unfortunately he is correct - all the little people wanting to build themselves into something bigger and better - but will they????
  14. IanHeard

    IanHeard Member

    I think English bands need to force the issue and make things less complicated.
    We need to "offload" the Welsh and Scottish bands from the Area and Finals picture and let Besson fund "National" contests in Wales and Scotland separately from England.
    England will then be free to organise an All England Contest along the same lines(and instead of) our current National Brass Band Championships of Great Britain.
    This will include bands in all sections and will produce 5 All England Champion bands across the 5 sections.
    This would then produce Englands representative(s) for the European competition the top bands approve of.
    I think a lot of people would mourn the loss of a true British Championship but its time to wrest control from Besson and for England to be selfish (for once!) and I have a feeling that Besson would come back with its tail between its legs.
    Its time England realised it has clout ,but with the welsh and scottish involved we lack focus.

    Ian Heard.
  15. TheMusicMan

    TheMusicMan tMP Founder Staff Member

    What the..... what an arrogant, dreadful and thoroughly racist comment... How dare you...

    I would be very, very careful Ian in using tMP to voice your opinion of what 'We' is supposed to mean in your comment quoted above... If you meant that 'We' in this context is supposed to represent tMP, oh how totally very wrong you are. You use 'We' to represent the English I feel.

    I am Welsh, and very proud of it and for your information tMP hails from Wales (though before your comments here I have never had cause to mention that in this context). I hope I am over-reacting and have misread what you say, but using 'We' in the way you do here has offended me, thought I'd mention it...
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2004
  16. aqua76

    aqua76 Member

    So come the regional qualifiers in Feb/March what are the Scottish and Welsh bands supposed to do?? Offer up thanks for the lack of a contest to practice for and look forward to. Although your obviously not going to be concerned about what we do from the tone of your post!

    How do u think the contest scene will be improved in England if you take away the competitive element that almost 50%(ie the scottish and welsh contingent) of the current top 10 offer.

    AS for 'National Contests' in Scotland and Wales...surely thats essentially what the regional qualifiers are?? Every band in our respective countries competing in order to represent our bands and country at the National Championships of GREAT BRITAIN (which does contain Wales and Scotland im sure!!)

    The idea of any competition should be for the best of the best to be competing, regardless of where they are from. I dont care where a band comes from if they go on stage and play a blinder!

    I need hardly mention the talented ranks of Scottish and Welsh players/conductors involved in many of the top bands in England......

    I think you maybe should be careful how you word your arguments!
  17. IanHeard

    IanHeard Member

    I play in a second section band, and at the moment due to the present system the title "Champion Second Section Band of England " is not available to me or my band, unlike Scotland or Wales.(Nobodies fault by the way)
    You pride in being Welsh is same as my pride in being English(Sorry!).
    I speak only for myself and apologise for using the "royal" we.
    Your comment re. The Mouthpeice coming from Wales puzzles me....we do have free speech don`t we?
    It does also worry me(although not surprise me) that when "I" talk about issues like this from an exclusively English standpoint words like "rascist"& "arrogant" are used.

    Ian Heard.
  18. Majoresteve

    Majoresteve Member

    indeed, i couldnt see any rascist comments in your statement.
  19. IanHeard

    IanHeard Member

    As I have mentioned before I would like the opportunity(as you have) to be a Champion Band of my country (England), at the moment I first become a West of England Champion and then jump straight to be being British Champion (I wish!).
    We will have the British Open to decide the "Best of British" if you need it.

    Ian Heard.
  20. Naomi McFadyen

    Naomi McFadyen New Member


    This thread has become more complicated than banding ever will! :-?

    I think that bandspeople should just support and get on with whatever the certain Band Associations decide to do... Yes, everyone has their opinions on everything that is decided (in EVERY respect that is possible, right down to results- we see it all the time on this forum) but at the same time, why can't people just accept it all and get on with it...

    If these contests dont get much interest and don't work, so be it; they tried, which has to be done in most circumstances to see what happens... They all must be carefully thought about and researched before going ahead with them, surely...

    If bands don't want to enter these contests, they wont... so what... and maybe making more contests will encourage more bands to enter, especially if it's on the same day, in a different country... may be closer to home for many bands who want to enter these things and contest more...

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