Why can't people accept contest results?

Discussion in 'The Rehearsal Room' started by Robin Norman, Mar 24, 2009.

  1. Robin Norman

    Robin Norman Member

    Hi,

    I'm probably going to be completely shot down in flames here but it really gets me down when, year after year, the post-regional round-up turns into a complete 'bitch-fest' about contest results.

    I know that every band works really hard to prepare the best possible performance for a contest but the person (or persons) 'in the box' have to make a call based on what they hear. The problem with adjudicating and all contests is that, at the end of the day, it is subjective. I often think it would be really interesting after a contest to play recordings of all the performances in a random order to a different adjudicator and see whether they get the same result - I'm guessing that there may be some similarities and some differences. Look at the Masters a few years ago, three adjudicators in three separate boxes produced, in some cases, three very different results. Why do one (or two) people have to be ridiculed and other bands 'gloated over' just because one individual preferred their version.

    At the weekend I listened to 6 of the 12 performances of Salute to Youth at Stevenage (including my own band) and, yes, there were some performances that I definately do not think were as good as ours. However, Philip Sparke obviously thought they were and who am I to question that, it is his opinion and, last time I looked, he is entitled to it and it is his opinion which counts at the end of the day.

    One other complaint I would make however is the gloating that continues to go on post-contest. Our result did not go our way but to have other bands and band-members 'rubbing our noses in it' is just not on. We enjoyed taking our band to the area having earnt our promotion to the Championship section. This year's result means (I think) that we will be back in the First Section again next year, why does that give anyone the right to openly criticise - Beware, next year it could be the other way round, contesting is a funny old game. David King once said to me (about the time he took YBS to all those European titles) "You have to remember that if contesting and adjudication is a joke when you lose, it's still a joke when you win!" - never a truer word spoken.

    My band will pick ourselves up and take our 28 players who are all full-time, regular members, to the next concert and the next contest. Banding is a hobby and contesting is not the be-all and end-all. We have a year of great concerts booked and, to a band such as ours, that is what being in a band is all about. Yes, contests are important but there are much more important things going on in the world than this, surely!

    Go on, shoot me down then :)
     
  2. Euphanasia

    Euphanasia Member

    Excellent points, well made!
    Personally, I couldn't agree more.

    Good on you for starting this thread.

    Andy.
     
  3. mfbrass

    mfbrass New Member

    My old boss used to say 'winners can laugh, losers can please themselves'.
    I didnt get the result I wanted this area but its no good complaining. Just have to pick ourselves up and get on with it.
    I've wondered if our adjudicators were being 'cloned' by 'ABBA' (some may call it 'clowned') but the differences shown in remarks suggest that they sometimes disagree with each other. Must make for a peculiar atmosphere in the box. But for all the 'disagreement' they still come out with a mutual result - clever that.:confused: Whenever i've benn adjudicating i've always been alone so I have no experience of this.
    Lets look forward to more happy days of contesting eh!!!
     
  4. Bass Trumpet

    Bass Trumpet Active Member

    I'm afraid that, such is the human condition, we are bound to behave in that way. I was gutted by Sunday's result, as I'm sure you were too. Although we had no right to think we deserved a podium place, we thought we had done better than the 10th that was on offer. However, I agree with you on the points you make. We are subjecting ourselves to the opinion of one person who does their level best to 'get it right'. If we're not prepared to accept it, we shouldn't turn up in the first place!

    My view is one of a working musician. I often find myself equally as experienced as the bloke in the box and disagreeing with the result. I have been to contests where the adjudicator has plainly got it wrong, however, just like a football referee, they are always 'right' by virtue of the fact that they are the one chosen to make that decision.

    My one criticism is not of Mr Sparke, but of the vagueness of the adjudicating system. Until there is some sort of set criteria, as there are in many judged sports, we have to put up with the occasional result we might disagree with. I think that the organisers of all the Nationals Area contests should meet with all the adjudicators and agree on a number of benchmarks with which to base their judgement. Also, these benchmarks would be made public so that the bands could better meet the adjudicator's requirements for a good performance.

    Of course, this would all be in an ideal world with unlimited funding.....:biggrin:
     
  5. Getzonica

    Getzonica Active Member

    I agree banding is only a hobby and I think some people just take contests and even concerts way too seriously, but someone once told me that contests are just concerts so people shouldn't get so worked up about them. he everybody had this attitude the candins world might be a much nicer and less stressful place.
     
  6. Mesmerist

    Mesmerist Well-Known Member

    Personally I would hope that any Band I play with behaves with dignity whether we win or lose because which ever scenario it happens to be now it could so easily be very different next year. After all we are ALL enjoying the same hobby and trying to do our very best so why gloat over the unlucky band whose turn it is to be relegated...
    Have to say that I am so proud to be associated with Verwood who gave our rivals a standing ovation when they beat us this year.
     
  7. themusicalrentboy

    themusicalrentboy Active Member

    Why can't people accept contest results?

    Because it's just not fair goddamn it!!!!! ;)

    I enjoy contesting - I love the pressure, the feelings you get depending on your position and the events that follow in the bar etc. I think moaning about a result (I hold my hands up after Butlins - I moaned) is just a way of making you feel better. I think everyone realises sooner or later that 95% of the time there is a definite reason for your placing and then you can move on and use the criticisms and praises to further your band's playing.
     
  8. Martin

    Martin Member

    Agreed. I have been to contests in the past where I have witnessed punch ups (albeit fuelled by alcohol) between members of rival bands. We may not run around a pitch kicking a ball, or up and down a tennis court, but our activity is just as competitive and demands that element of sportsmanship. Any band that can salute their rivals in the manner above gets my vote.:clap:
     
  9. yoda

    yoda Member

    I would like to say Robin Norman, that i agree 100% with everything you write in your post.

    I couldn't have put it better myself :) well done and well said
     
  10. Squeaker

    Squeaker Member

    Adjudicators are just like referees in football, and look at the stick they get. I personally can't imagine sitting in a box for hours, listening to the same piece, judging each one, picking the winners and losers, and on top of that....... keeping everybody happy!........... WILL NEVER HAPPEN!! If a band doesn't get the result they wanted or expected, of course they may have a little moan amongst themselves, then get on with it.

    As for the winners etc rubbing people's noses in it, fact of the matter is that like in life, there's some real idiots and bumholes out there, and some of them play brass instruments. But the braggers are the ones who take the losing REALLY badly, and don't have much of a life other than banding.
    Try not to let them get to you, rise above it.
     
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  12. Martin

    Martin Member

    .........and they aren't always as good as they think they are!!
     
  13. Squeaker

    Squeaker Member

    Yeah...... what he said!!!!
     
  14. yoda

    yoda Member

    True, but the point is that they have been appointed (by whoever) to adjudicate on the bands playing, therefore whatever they decide is the correct decision.

    There are bound to be differences of opinion. After all, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

    You dont like a certain adjudicator...... dont go to the contest. simple really

    :)
     
  15. DMBabe

    DMBabe Supporting Member

    Unless it's the regionals, which in the case of Scotland certainly, means no show= relegation!!! So not going cos u don't like the adjudicator(s) is not an option!:dunno
     
  16. BigHorn

    BigHorn Active Member

    All very comendable sentiments from Mr Norman who started this thread. But in the L & SC Regional thread 2006, when his band was a little less less fortunate than of late, he had a little moan too.

    and


    The un-erring truth is :-
    When adjudicators pick your band to win they are right - and should be applauded.
    When adjudicators don't pick your band to win they are wrong - and deserve to be moaned at.

    Surely everyone knows that - dont they? :confused:
     
  17. Robin Norman

    Robin Norman Member

    Thanks for bringing back up things from three years ago (last time the band was relegated) but, if you read my comments again, you'll see I was saying exactly the same as I am now. Back on "Journey to the Centre of the Earth", yes, I thought we deserved higher (as I do this year) but not once am I taking a 'pop' at Mr.Hardy. In fact I am saying that he is entitled to judge in the way he sees fit and I accepted and respected his opinion .

    I've only ever adjudicated a solo contest once and know how how hard this can be - especially when "child drawn number 4's" mother catches you afterwards and asks you for details as to why their little darling didn't win. Child was drawn four out of 27 and came 7th if I remember correctly!
     
  18. Squeaker

    Squeaker Member

    I think you got mixed up Yoda. When Martin said, "they aren't as good as they think they are", I believe he was referring to the idiot and bumhole brass players that that we'd started to discuss. That was my understanding of his post anyway, I don't think he was making reference to the adjudicators.

    Quick funny story for you all who have experienced one of said bumholes:

    In a pub after a contest, member of a band that lost the contest (I'll call them Mr X) goes to the toilet. Followed closely by a member of the winning band (call him Mr Y).
    Mr X holds the door for Mr Y. As they continue into the toilet, Mr Y says, 'Unlucky today. It's never nice to lose, a lot of adjudicators don't know what they're talking about. Makes it even worse for you though when, like today, the adjudicator is spot in picking the winners and LOSERS! I'd best get to the bar before you start drowning your sorrows and leave us celebrating with no beer!' Nice eh?

    Mr X keeps their cool, not wanting to show emotion. Turns to Mr Y, and calmly replies, 'Sorry, I didn't realise you were with the winning band, I assumed they'd all rushed home to have celebratory sex with their cousin. I'd best get to the toilet before you fill it with the vast amount of sh*t that flows from your mouthpiece, funny that, cus I also heard you play!' :clap:

    That story had me laughing for a long time!
     
  19. FeistyFlugel

    FeistyFlugel New Member

    I agree..to a point, however I believe that we should perhaps reverse that point and treat concerts with the same respect as a contest!....why should the concert be any less accurately played than any contest. I'm not saying all be quivering wreaks on the concert stage. Just it seems sometimes concerts are less polished performances...why? it’s all music and all our reputations at stake!!!! off my soapbox now..sorry.:-?
     
  20. Martin

    Martin Member

    Absolutely! Thanks, Squeaker. I did mean those people who get unecessarily upset and not the adjudicators.

    I have had opinions of my own which differ from the adjudicator's decisions (Saturday, at Stevenage, was no exception) but these opinions are private or at the very most only expressed to a circle of close friends, certainly not in public. I have never adjudicated and I admire the people who's musical education and experience is far greater than mine, who can sit in a tent for hours on end hearing the jibes and not so nice comments of people as they walk by and then, at the end of the day produce an objective view based on their experience and what they have heard.

    Guys (and sometimes, these days - girls) good on you! Keep it up.:)
     
  21. Leyfy

    Leyfy Active Member

    What, coming 14th at the nationals, then second last at the weekend and demoted??! I don't call that very fortunate! ;)

    At the end of the day, there are more important things in life than contesting, and much, much worse things than being back in the first section. In fact, 2007/2008 up to the regionals was a bit of a banding highlight for me (Not just contests - Malcolm Arnold concert was one, the several packed concerts all over Suffolk and Norfolk, the beer nights, and the band taking part in a joint concert with my school), and that was spent in the first section!
     
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