Who's responsible for contest results?

Discussion in 'The Rehearsal Room' started by hellraiser, Jul 14, 2005.

  1. hellraiser

    hellraiser Member

    Other bands being better?! :D

    usually a combination, right?

    and how does one asses who's most to credit/blame?
  2. TheMusicMan

    TheMusicMan tMP Founder Staff Member

    Usually the adjudicator...;)
  3. Sam Atherton

    Sam Atherton Member

    If someone does a stunning job of a solo, full credit to them, but the chances are they won't have won it for you. Everyone deserves the credit/blame. Unless you have a player that stands on their chair and messes it up in spectacular fashion every single time, what do you gain by deciding who's fault it is? Everyone has bad days, just be grateful when it's your turn for a good one! If a band sliding through the sections because of bad results then everyone needs to do their bit to sort it out.
  4. jo

    jo Member

    If its a good result its because the band played well, if the result is a bad one its the conductors fault!!!!
  5. hellraiser

    hellraiser Member


    witty point, but can we assume for the purpose of this discussion that the adjudicator is faultless, unbiased, not corrupt, an expert in music, has sensational ears... ;)
  6. sevenhelz

    sevenhelz Active Member

    *ahem* i assume you mean assess, the verb, not asses, the plural noun. :D

    and in answer to your question, a combination of players and conductor. committee has nothing to do with it, the players need to practice and the conductor needs to be good *shrug* it's that simple
  7. ploughboy

    ploughboy Active Member

    I'd just like to say "it's all my fault" before any of my team come and point it out!

    MD Emley
  8. michellegarbutt

    michellegarbutt Supporting Member

    If you played badly it's everyones fault. Playing in a band is a team effort. If you played as well as you could and you still didn't win then on that occassion the other bands were better than you and you'll just have to try again
  9. johnmartin

    johnmartin Active Member

    There's no point in trying to apportion blame. If you do then you're in the wrong game. Brass band contesting is a team event and you live or die by the teams efforts.
  10. brassneck

    brassneck Active Member

    One player in a exposed position can cost a band enough points to stop them getting in the prize list if he/she plays badly! That is even if the band played well. There is something in the saying that 'you are only as strong as your weakest link!'.
  11. Andy_Euph

    Andy_Euph Active Member

    The band!...if the band plays ****e then its got nothing to do with the conductor.

    Plus absolutely deaf adjudicators at many many contests, with little or no musical training apart from they once played 4th triangle for black dyke in 1887!
  12. PeterBale

    PeterBale Moderator Staff Member

    Interesting question, and one which will bring about all sorts of results. For me, the players will usually have to take most of the brickbats if things go wrong, but what about the following situation, and its potential effect on a band:

    A contest is coming up; the MD is unable to take the band due to other commitments; he doesn't think the band are ready to compete (maybe because the test piece does not suit them or some other reason); the commitee decides to go ahead anyway; the band plays, and comes away with a poor result, and consequent dent in their confidence.

    Makes you think, doesn't it?
  13. hellraiser

    hellraiser Member

    If the players play as the conductor told them to and the band does poorly then conductor should take the blame. I think the overwhelming influence on how a band performs comes from conductor. People have mentioned how about if one player messes it up- perhaps look at the cause of that and you might find that the conductor has not given the player the confidence and encouragement in rehearsals. Or perhaps the conductor has put that person on a part that's too exposed for him/her.
  14. hellraiser

    hellraiser Member

    I don't understand that attitude. Blame is dished out in football: players get transferred, managers get sacked. If you don't question players or conductors then what you'll get is people in seats and jobs for life. Then you get youngsters waiting for dead men's shoes. Is that good for banding? I don't think so.
  15. Flugelmahorn

    Flugelmahorn Member

    Depends on the level of banding you want to play at and ultimately what you want to get out of your playing.

    Also depends on your own personal view of "Good for banding". Doing contests, with hiring and firing of players depending on their individual performance or performing entertaining and well prepared concerts which may enhance the profile of the band and therefore brass bands in general to the public?
  16. hellraiser

    hellraiser Member

    Since when is it a choice between one and the other?
  17. johnmartin

    johnmartin Active Member

    I agree with Ali; it depends on why you do it in the first place. If the whole band is geared up for successful contesting then fine adopt a "hire and fire" policy. If however your band is like most bands whose players just enjoy being in a band and hope for a bit of success on the way then this sort of policy will get you nowhere. I have been in bands of both types over the years and there was never a great atmosphere in the former. I've been with Lochgelly for nigh on fifteen years now and we went as low as the 4th section but in recent years and with the same core of about ten to twelve stalwart players we're going to our third nationals in four years and we'll be 1st section next year. We've never fired anyone along the way and all player changes have been through normal reasons for people leaving e.g. work, uni, moving away.
  18. hellraiser

    hellraiser Member

    you might not get any success along the way unless you make key changes to seating and conductor
  19. johnmartin

    johnmartin Active Member

    What part of "with the same core of ten to twelve stalwart players" did you not get. I will be honest and say that we did change the MD and I firmly believe that was the catalyst for success, but at no point were any player changes forced along the way. Being honest I would say that hitting fourth section gave a lot of people a kick up the ar*e. The decision to change MD was not taken lightly as we had been operating with the same MD for about the last five years and it was very hard to end the relationship. Since then however the band has gone on to great things first with Gavin Lindsay and latterly with Raymond Tennant and now Jim Chamberlain. Personally speaking I would say that our second place in the 2nd section at the Scottish was a bit unexpected and being honest we probably are not geared up for life in the 1st section. Having said that however, we will take whatever fate throws at us in our stride and strive to do our best.

    If we were to operate a hire and fire policy then surely all those players who have done it for us over the last four years could all look to be fired and replaced with stars who could win us the 1st section and get us into the Championship section. Great, but would it still be the Lochgelly band - no.
  20. Pastit

    Pastit Member

    The band (and conductor) determine the performance.

    The adjudicator determines the result