Who wants to watch F1 on Sky?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Chat' started by Paddy Flower, Apr 20, 2011.


Who wants to watch Formula One on Sky?

  1. Yes

    2 vote(s)
  2. No

    21 vote(s)
  1. Paddy Flower

    Paddy Flower Active Member

  2. andyp

    andyp Active Member

    No chance. Will stick to watching proper racing, MotoGP and WSB/BSB.
  3. StellaJohnson

    StellaJohnson Active Member

    who wants to watch F1 these days its boring, put it on ESPN instead, along with all the other cr*p thats swollowing up our BBC budget - london Marathon, snooker wimbledon to name a few
  4. Paddy Flower

    Paddy Flower Active Member

    I would have sort of agreed with you this time last but not now.

    Did you see the Chinese Grand Prix last weekend?

    One of the best races i've seen for years and all thanks to two great innovations.

    1) Pirelli tyres that 'go off' quickly making ANY car very uncompetitive if they try and minimise the number of pit-stops and...

    2) DRS (Drag reduction system) which allows a driver to open a flap on the rear wing to give him extra speed ONLY if he's trying to get past a slower car (who then can't use his DRS to defend)

    The last 10 laps were enthralling, Webber (started 18th) catching Button for 3rd, Hamilton catching Vettel for the win. A couple of years ago you would take the positions at the last set of pit-stops (probably 25 mins before the end of the race) and that would have been it, your finishing order (yawn!), not now, much better

    KERS (Kenetic Energy Recovery System) has not even come close to giving us exciting racing, these 2 things have.

    Have a watch next weekend Stella, really you won't regret it

    (top tip from Paddy, the man who gave you BALLABRIGGS, C'mon on!!)
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2011
  5. StellaJohnson

    StellaJohnson Active Member

    I did watch it yawn yawn yawn. Its still boring!
    In fact I went back to bed, there is much better racing about than that about.

    Moto gp, superbikes and even touring cars is wheel to wheel and more competitive than F1 and you can go to the meetings for the fraction of the price.
  6. Paddy Flower

    Paddy Flower Active Member

    So you got up especially to watch a Grand Prix thinking it would be boring?

    You then went to bed and missed a really exciting finish?
  7. andyp

    andyp Active Member

    Yes, the Chinese Grand Prix was pretty exciting, Hamiton and Webber both drove brilliantly. However F1 is still as contrived as Scalextrix - and will continue to be until they regulate to significantly reduce the proportion of the cars' grip that is produced by those flippin' great wings on each end.

    It's no coincidence that the best wheel to wheel racing (i.e. bikes and touring cars) relies almost entirely on mechanical grip (yes touring cars have splitters and rear wings but I don't think one of those could drive upside down on a ceiling......). If an F1 car gets anywhere near the car in front it loses so much front downforce that it almost becomes undriveable, which is why so many past races were processions won and lost on pit stops. DRS/KERS/etc are all just gimmicks.

    Reduce the wing effect, racing will follow, and you won't need all the fancy complex guff.
  8. StellaJohnson

    StellaJohnson Active Member

    no, it happened to be on TV when I got up that morning.

    The problem is this,in the mid 80's when F1 was exciting, the cars were super turboed, engineered past what was thought was possible, drivers took risks and and there was a degree of unrelability as the cars were built purely to last the race.

    Since the Senna incident, the cars have slowed down because of H&S and environmental freaks and yet the drivers want huge sums of money for what they call taking a risk with there life. I thought F1 was the pinicle of motorsport?? Its a parade of cars driving in a circle, hoping to overtake in the pit stops or sometimes on a rare occasion during the race. Boring, there is so much happening in bikes, they take the risk. Until we go back to the mid 80's and allow the manufacerers to construct cars to the highest possible degree without restricting the performance, F1 will continue to bore me to death
  9. themusicalrentboy

    themusicalrentboy Active Member

    have you actually watched any of the races this season?!?!
  10. StellaJohnson

    StellaJohnson Active Member

    why don't you believe me?!
  11. Thirteen Ball

    Thirteen Ball Active Member

    Well said that man!

    I have to say, when F1 has to purposely introduce shoddy tires and think about having an electrical system to make it rain on the track to produce an exciting race then there's clearly something wrong with it that can't be solved without a fundamental re-think. The chinese Grand prix was about as exciting as a below-average touring car race. OK, for F1 that made it positively riveting, but in the scheme of things it was still poor racing.

    f1's biggest problem is it's following the money, not the fans. So you get 80% empty grandstands at venues halfway across the world for no reason at all, and Bernie mercillessly trying to scrap all the european venues despite the fact that's where the fans are. Like everything else in sport, it's now a business so the fans don't matter.

    Albeit the new rules in motoGP are destroying the sport as well. Tyres? Nope, we choose them for you. Engine type? Only four cyclinders allowed, and then only four-strokes. Want to run extra fuel? Nope, can't do that, 23 litres only. So all the bikes line up on the grid without enough fuel to actually race from lights to flag. What happens? You get 12-15 laps of proper racing, then everyone runs out of fuel, the safeties cut in, and each rider totters round in their respective positions for the remaining race distance. I'm sure F1 fans have noticed the same thing. Likewise with only limited engines for the year, they only ever run at about 90% power. From next year even the bore and stroke of the engine is dictated by the FIM.

    The point is that both sports are so heavily and unecessarily regulated that there is no innovation any more. The more heavily you regulate things, the closer each car/bike becomes to it's adversaries - so any advantage/disadvantage from individual differences is minimised. OK, bike racing is still a street ahead of F1 in terms of watchability - but electronic driver aids are slowly killing that as a spectacle too. Because everyone's hankering after the same thousandth of a second, it's made everything pretty predictable.

    I mean, chicanes on the Haundieres straight at Le Mans 'to slow the cars down'. This is racing for god's sake! 220mph was ok in 1966 when the GT40s did the 1-2-3, why is it now deemed too fast when car safety is a hundred times better? The similar emasculation of Hockenheim has destroyed it as a course, and don't even get me started on what's happened to Assen. That's simply been destoyed with bus-stops, stupid second gear complexes and pointless technicalities. The riders who knew and loved the old circuit hate it, and I can see why.

    I've always said Rallying is where the real skill is in car-racing - but even rallying has been restricted and further restricted until the cars are all reduced to souped up shopping-carts. Where's the next stratos coming from? The next Quattro S2? The next RS200? The next Metro 6R4? The latter three of of which would destroy most of even the modern rally field.

    Is it any wonder fans now hanker after Ayrton Senna firing a fibreglass, 1000+bhp mclaren turbo deathtrap with a manual clutch and a manual gearbox through the streets of monaco, one handed? Wayne Rainey and Kevin Schwantz cursing each other's very names, and expending every last drop of blood just to beat the other one on howling, evil-handling two strokes? Mick Doohan wrestling the NSR500 back upright with a broken ankle and getting back on it after it's cliff-like powerband tried to kill him for the hundredth time that season?

    For me, throw the rulebook away in both MotoGP and F1, and start again, with very simple rules. F1 is open cockpits, open wheels, petrol powered engines and the car has to stand a crash-test. MotoGP should be, it has two wheels and carries a rider. Other than that, do what you like. THEN we'd see some unpredictability.

    I mean, racers are supposed to be gladiators. Heroes. And it's difficult to respect that when it's no longer about drive, ambition, bravery, skill and nerve, who can brake the latest, and who's got the bottle to give it full throttle.....

    Now it's about who has the best software in their traction control system.... and that's a bit of a poor substitute....

    (Impassioned rant over)
    Last edited: May 4, 2011
  12. StellaJohnson

    StellaJohnson Active Member

    Andi, I wish i could write posts like you!!

    You watch the Monaco GP and its all about which Hollywood Film star has come to support and there latest film they are promoting!

    I've been to Hockenheim, Monza and Budapest in the past 5 or so years and the cost of the weekend ticket has cost me around £500, not to mention the flights accomodation booze etc. Yet I can go to the BSB for less than £30! The following years I went, the cars have been built more slower that you don't even need ear plugs anymore!

    Forget football being a business F1 takes the biscuit and it isn't even good anymore, shove it on ESPN!
  13. StellaJohnson

    StellaJohnson Active Member

    I watched a bit of yesterdays "race" (if thats what you call it!) yesterday. That was really really exciting. :rolleyes:
  14. Thirteen Ball

    Thirteen Ball Active Member

    In the last 13 races Vettel has won, he's actually overtaken (wheel to weel, not in the pits) THREE cars.

    That's not racing. That's a procession.
  15. themusicalrentboy

    themusicalrentboy Active Member

    he has the fastest car and is the fastest driver... that's the aim of the game....
  16. Thirteen Ball

    Thirteen Ball Active Member

    No, he has the best computers.....

    Either in the car or in the wind tunnel.

    The only drivers in the paddock who genuinely impress me at the moment are Webber, Hamilton and (much as I don't like him very much) Alonso. Those three would be fast in anything with four wheels. With, or without electronics.
    Last edited: May 9, 2011
  17. themusicalrentboy

    themusicalrentboy Active Member

    so why isn't Webber winning then? Sorry Andi, there has been talk around F1 about Vettel since he came into the sport. He has always been labelled as the next Schumacher, and now he's had a decent car under him for two years he's making a name for himself. Webber did nothing until he had a good car but that's part of the sport, it's about who makes the best car and who has the best drivers. You're not telling me that if Red Bull had Paul Di Resta and Jaime Alguersuari they would still be leading the championship.

    Yes, whilst it isn't a level playing field by any stretch of the imagination, it is still the pinnacle of 4-wheeled motorsport (anyone who says it's gotten easier should jump in and take a spin) and it has been proven that level playing fields weren't particularly popular with the spectacular rise and fall of F1 GP.

    This year's championship has seen a lot of the aids taken away and the racing has been much better for it. As long as they continue to do that and not wither under driver pressure than I can only see F1 continuing to improve.
  18. StellaJohnson

    StellaJohnson Active Member

    Maybe Webber maybe hasn't adjusted to the car or is not suited to his liking, it happens to all drivers, we are only in the 3rd/4th race, lets give time. Maybe Red Bull are favouring Vettel more to win? I don't know to be honest whats happening in the paddock.

    Webber has been a good driver, probably not seen by many people. He did turn the fortunes Jaguar in particualy getting the car to the front row but had been let down by the reliability, (he did retire quite a lot!) and pace during the race. Did he get points for minardi to?

    The other drivers whom I don't know much about, probably won't match them at the moment, give them a few races would. Hamilton seem to fall on his feet 1st year in F1 with McLaren??!!
    Last edited: May 13, 2011
  19. Thirteen Ball

    Thirteen Ball Active Member

    Or maybe because Vettel is the darling of the team and the car is built to suit him. Teams have their favourites, and Red bull have made it very clear he's the no:1 driver. He gets all the trick parts first, (and even when he smashes them up, they unbolt them from Webber's car and bolt them onto his for the race the next day) better support, and the team effort is clearly directed toward him winning. They'd rather have a 1-12 finish than a 2-3 finish. Likewise the McLaren is clearly built and designed around Lewis Hamilton. Think back to time when Alonso was there (and was probably far more likely to win a title) yet all the resources somehow gravitated towards Hamilton, because he was practically Ron Dennis's adopted son. OK, they shot themselves in the foot and Raikonnen won the title that year, but it was no shock when Alonso went.

    It happens in every motorsport. For various reasons, the best driver/rider is not always put forward by the team. Same thing with Pedrosa at Honda in MotoGP. The only reason honda pushed so hard for 800CC bikes after the end of the 990CC era was because lighter bikes with a more 250-ish style of cornering would suit him. (Ironically until this season he's been garbage on the 800s.) Likewise, the switch from Michelin Tyres to Bridgestone - which eventually led to the control tyres all the riders now use, was entirely motivated by Pedrosa. The rest of the Hondas were happilly scrapping away with Michelin tyres, But pedrosa wanted bridgestones - so Honda sacrificed a very fruitful 30-year partnership for him. The Ducati Desmosedici was built around stoner for years, to the point where it became unrideable by anyone else as the dramatic decline in the careers of Loris Capirossi, Marco Melandri and Nicky Hayden (a former world champion) will attest. At the point they began adapting the bike so that someone OTHER than stoner could ride it, Hayden started climbing the order, but Stoner started falling off, complaining, and eventually decamped to Honda.

    I'm not saying Vettel isn't a good driver. He clearly is. But make no mistake about it. Vettel is winning because red bull's efforts are directed toward him winning, not the team winning. Why? Because he brings a lot more to the team commercially than Mark Webber does. And in racing, money is what matters.
  20. themusicalrentboy

    themusicalrentboy Active Member

    money is what matters in every sport Andi, what you've just described in MotoGP is basically the same in F1..... it seems to me that your argument is based around a penchant for two-wheeled racing rather than an active dislike of Formula 1 ;)

    Don't get me wrong, I would love it if the cars got closer to the cars of the 70s and 80s, but realistically it's never going to happen and what they have begun to do is making the sport better all the time.

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