Which Mouthpiece

Discussion in 'The Rehearsal Room' started by Mofman, Nov 11, 2009.

  1. Mofman

    Mofman Member

    Is there a popular mouthpiece that people use for front row and for back row i.e. Denis Wick 3 for front row. Denis Wick 4B for playing on back row?
     
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  3. steve butler

    steve butler Active Member

    I definately like to play with bigger cups on the back row
     
  4. Mofman

    Mofman Member

    There's so many responses to that I don't know where to start :)
     
  5. Kjata

    Kjata Member

    Firstly to Steve, I love bigger cups wherever I am... Actually that answers mofmans question as well!!! :D
    Slightly surreal admitting that to a bunch of strangers though?!?! ;)
     
  6. Tam O Shanter

    Tam O Shanter Member

    <MassiveGeneralisation>
    Denis Wick 3B for front row and rep.
    Denis Wick 2 for 2nd and 3rd.
    </MassiveGeneralisation>
     
  7. Rapier

    Rapier Supporting Member

    What a strange question. Surely the answer is, ''whatever mouthpiece the player prefers''.
     
  8. Mofman

    Mofman Member

    Yes I agree with that, but was wondering if there is a trend to certain models. I was on back row (2nd cornet) for 7 years playing on a Wick 3. Now I'm on front row I'm using Bach 7 C. They are the only ones I own but I'm not happy using the 7C. If I'm to purchase a new mouthpiece I can't test them all. So, was asking the question to see which is the most popular for front row playing.
     
  9. JesTperfect!

    JesTperfect! Member

    A 7C? Really?

    I play on a 7C on my trumpet, but it's a disaster on cornet....I have no tone to speak of. But that's just me. Some might say that's the case ANYway.............

    I play on a DW4 on cornet, all the time. I play both front row and back row for different bands.
    I play back row for a championship section band however, and all the others (bar the rep) play on DW2s or 3s.

    I stick with a 4 because I move around so much, and ultimately want to play front row all the time (fingers crossed for when I go to uni!), but most people I know that sit and stay on back row play on a 2 or a 3.
     
  10. mutedropper

    mutedropper Member

    I would have said the same as Rapier, but I use an old battered lewington mccann which works nicely for me in the top register or bottom register. All comes down to practice at the end of the day.
     
  11. Columbo

    Columbo Member

    Totally Agree, however a good starting point is: Front Row D Wick 4BW, Back Row D Wick 3. Nice comfy mouthpiece is Lewington McCann. That and the D Wick 4BW have a nice wide rim. That said, have a mess and see for yourself.
     
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  13. GeordieSop

    GeordieSop Member

    I currently play principal cornet for a championship section band and have played on just about all denis wick mouthpieces. I've settled on the dw2 however as you just can't get a bigger sound on anything else in my opinion.

    My views are thant front row should play on either a dw2 or dw3 and back row play on dw2

    However as with all mouthpiece choice... It depends on what the player is comfortable with.
     
  14. towse1972

    towse1972 Active Member

    4bw for the front row? To small. Thin, harsh sound! The amount of times i have taken cornet players in my section off these nasty little ******s is untrue. People start on them when they are young and seem to cling to them.
    Its easy to generalise about a back/front row split but I think noone should play on anything smaller than a 4. I am currently in the process of changing our back row onto bigger mouthpieces but its a slow process. Some of them were playing on 4b's!!! I swapped them all onto 4,s as soon as I could. They will be swapping to 2s (if it suits) very soon. This will (hopefully) give them a bigger, more sonourous tone.
     
  15. GordonH

    GordonH Member

    "I wear size 9 shoes so you should too!"

    If I was to say that to you, you would think it was daft, yet we hear this sort of advice about mouthpieces all the time.

    I used to play on big mouthpieces (I played a Wick 2 in the front row in first section and championship section - what a mad fool I was), but after I changed my embouchure set up to get a smaller aperture I had to shift to smaller mouthpieces. I actually play on a 4B now. Its not ideal. I would prefer to play on a 4 or a 4 1/2 but my cornet has to have the shanks turned down slightly to get the gap right so changing mouthpieces is a chore, and I can't pass them on to anyone once they have been cut. This is entirely my fault as the instrument was gapped for a Bach mouthpiece when it was made - a huge error and not easily corrected on this particular cornet.

    Some of the issues that affect mouthpiece choice:

    • Need for endurance (brass band cornet players play like violins in an orchestra so there is more need for endurance than with the trumpet meaning that rims are likely to be wider or flatter than trumpet).
    • Need for flexibility (thinner rims give more flexibility but increase attack, this is why I think the Wick rims are the way they are - to prevent very brassy attacks without sacrificing flexibility too much).
    • Resistance requirement (in general tighter feeling instruments work better with slightly more open mouthpieces and visa versa - this also has a lot to do with the mouthpiece gap).
    • How much pressure you use when playing.
    • Whether you are required to play after the point when your lips have gone (a serious issue for brass band and big band players who have no choice in the matter!).
    • The sound model you are aiming for.
    • Physiology of the lips (children have smaller mouths and need smaller mouthpieces, people with big lips can't play on really shallow mouthpieces without adopting odd embouchures).

    I think that resistance is the key. An instrument set up feels best is when the resistance of the whole system from the lips through to the bell is optimal for that particular player. This is where adjusting the gap can make a huge difference. By gap I mean the distance between the end of the mouthpiece and the beginning of the leadpipe. This has a huge effect on resistance and the feel of the instrument. Incidentally, old cornets with removable shanks usually have no gap so this is a relatively new issue (past 30 years or so).

    That's my thoughts on the subject as someone who has been through more mouthpieces than hot dinners.
     
  16. catto09

    catto09 Member

    I would tend to agree with what GordonH has said - however, As a euphonium player I would tend to go for the mouthpiece that aids the most to creating the biggest and warmest sound. I found that the bigger mouthpieces do this. There are pros and cons for every aspect. Bigger mouthpiece means more work to get the top notes (but how often do back row cornets stretch up to top E's etc.), however - in a gym, the harder you work the more you get out of it. More weight = (theoretically) more muscles. And I actually noticed it was easier to get all those lip slurs etc. correct.

    Since back row cornets play lower notes most of the time I would have thought bigger mouthpiece would be more appropriate - Juicier sound!

    But again, it's your personal choice. If you can create a particularly Juicy sound in the lower range with a tiny mouthpiece, then go ahead!
     
  17. MrBb

    MrBb Member

    Just play on the mouthpiece with the deepest cup you feel comfortable with, makes no difference front or back row. I've played on both a Sparx 4 and a Wick 4, the sparx's sits between a wick 4 and 4b. but thats just me. You may find you need something bigger or smaller, just go into your local brass place and give a couple a try, but take your own cornet with you as, as with mouthpieces they all blow slightly differently as well.
     
  18. cornetshell

    cornetshell Member

    I definitely agree its whatever you feel best with, although its also what sound the band you play for has/wants - sweet/dark etc...once you have found one that suits you I would stick to it - you should be able to play comfortably in all the ranges on the right mouthpiece, so personally I dont see a front/back row issue or a need to change mouthpieces if you switch between front/back seats (I am not saying you shouldn't - its up to you - just saying I don't!). Obviosuly when you first change you may have to build your muscles again - but thats completey expected when you change.

    I used to play a lewington McCann and now play a Denis Wick 3 - I just prefer the V cup feel and that I can put much more air through the 3 as the end leading into the shank is bigger and not as small as the LMcC. The softer rounded rim was nice on the LMcC but I easily adapted to the 3 to get the deeper sound I wanted.

    (not a definitive answer - but I guess I am saying that really it is best you find what suits you!)
    :)
     
  19. MoominDave

    MoominDave Well-Known Member

    Does anyone else think that there could be a market for cornet mouthpieces bigger than the biggest currently available? A lot of people seem to be using DW 2s - I assume that at least some of these would prefer to be on something bigger - but there is nothing available.
     
  20. GeordieSop

    GeordieSop Member

    I wouldn't necesseraly play on one full time, however i would LOVE to at least try out a DW/RW 1.

    I've been thinking for a while why the Denis Wick serious only starts at a 2 and not a 1
     
  21. Valvecap

    Valvecap Member

    Ive always played front rank on either a DW3 or DW4 - I certainly wouldnt like to play anything shallower on front row. Ive tried the Lewington Mccann mouthpiece too but found although it was easier to play, the sacrifices in range, volume, and sheer bredth of tone were not worth it. Rather work just a tad harder on a bigger mouthpiece.
     

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