When is it time for the MD to go?

Discussion in 'The Rehearsal Room' started by JonP, Mar 13, 2008.


When should MD go

  1. Now

    39 vote(s)
  2. 5 Years Ago

    11 vote(s)
  3. 3 Years Ago

    4 vote(s)
  4. Keep lining his pockets he is a nice bloke.

    41 vote(s)
  1. JonP

    JonP Member

    "Hypothetical stuation"

    ""A Brass band has over 8-10 years invested more than a million pounds in players conductors and general running of the ensemble, and found themselfs having won only a handful of major titles. Would they start to think that perhaps thier is a problem with thier approach or formula? They Know they have the finest players available, they know they have a world class ensemble and soloists. They have the same MD at every contest and lose the vast majority.""

    It seems to me that in most sporting arenas, football springs to mind immediatly, losing of games comes down to one person in the end, the manager. If a football team is underachieving then the manager takes the heat, blame, anger of the fans and eventually gets the sack. This does not seem to be the same in oyur sport. We seem to have some bands thatfind themselfs throwing good money after bad at MD's that just cant cut teh mustard on the top level, but have some how created an environment in thier band room that makes them near on unsackable!
    This seems daft when there are msuical directors that have manages to win Major titles over and over again with sometimnes ensembles of far less means and ability.

    Remember, the only way that 2nd place counts is for a ranking system that is massively flaweds and does not carry any importance. Unlike the snooker or tennis rankings it does not qualify you for any competition or tournament so is infact redundant except to fill a page in a magazine or website. The rankings actually mean nothing. Only winnig a contest enters a band into teh history book.

    What do you think??
  2. MoominDave

    MoominDave Well-Known Member

    What a curious hypothesis... As if a band could have that amount of money to throw about... ;)

    Not knowing much about the way things are run at the band to which you are referring, I'd say there are a few things to consider -
    i) If they are serious about being the 'best of the best', do they truly have the best players money can buy? If a sponsor were to lay out 30k p.a. on sponsoring the bottommost seats, with a sliding scale up to several times that for the principal cornet, with contracts renewed on a yearly basis, they could land pretty much any 25 players of brass instruments in the world. Maybe more money is the answer??
    ii) Maybe you're right, and the MD is holding things back. But is the current MD important to maintaining the link with the sponsors? It would be a shame to fire'n'hire, then find that the cashflow dried up.
    iii) Maybe there are stylistic causes intrinsic to the players that cause the failure to despatch all contest opposition. For example, an otherwise extremely excellent Welsh band of recent years has a number of players who exhibit a really old-fashioned style and amplitude of vibrato. This has certainly spoiled some of their contest performances for me - and maybe for the judges too?

    But the basic problem is that you are throwing money in an effort to eliminate the randomising factor that is contest adjudication. And when there are other bands about who are also extremely good, you will never be able to get players and MD who are good enough to win 100% of the time, or even 50% of the time - they don't exist.
  3. Morghoven

    Morghoven Member

    Well...except at the Areas (qualification for the finals), at the top section Nationals (pre-qualification for next years Nats), at all the Spring Festival competitions (promotion)...and even at the Open the cumulative system means that 2nd one year is a pretty good insurance against relegation the next year...and not forgetting the trophies and the prize money...

    Your overall point though is an interesting one. How much responsibility should an MD take? I think a lot of them take rather more heat, pressure and indeed blame than you seem to think. As Dave so rightly points out, no amount of money in the world and no combination of players can ever guarantee a contest win.

    There is more to being an MD than just winning the contests. Perhaps the band enjoy his or her rehearsals, like their programming, think they have a good rapport with their audiences. Perhaps the band in question are being pragmatic and know that there is no-one better who will take the job on - they are hardly likely to do better at contests with no conductor at all!
  4. Katy Hudson

    Katy Hudson New Member

    Time for the M.D. to go when he/she decides to drop loyal and committed players, and gets someone else to tell them.:mad: And this is just a couple of weeks before the areas - how demoralising is that? Loyalty counts for nothing anymore.:frown:
  5. At the end of the day the best players in the best bands generally get the best results.

    You could stick kremit the frog infront of Black dyke/grimethorpe and they would still get the good results, they care too much about the standard of there playing and there reputation not to do a half hearted job.
  6. Jan H

    Jan H Moderator Staff Member

    There are some bands where a band is almost synonymous to the MD, and where MD gone, would probably mean band (almost) gone as well. I think there are some recent examples where this happened (a.o. the Gothenburg Band from Sweden)
  7. Jan H

    Jan H Moderator Staff Member

    I'm sorry, but I don't believe this at all! One of the qualities of a good conductor, is that he makes the players play even better than they normally would (that's what my conductor doaes abyway...). A "bad" conductor (I lean, like Kermit the frog bad) would have the opposite effect.
  8. on_castors

    on_castors Member

    It's only a game, it's not as if anyone outside this tiny quirky world of Brass Bands gives two hoots about it. Try as anyone might, it isn't going to be Premiership Football!
  9. JonP

    JonP Member

    Im cant agree with this. A duff MD can make even the best ensemble inthe world sound ropey.
  10. JonP

    JonP Member

    Quite right and no one would ever expect ti to be. But some Bands spend pretty substancial sums of money and surely the sponsers are expecting something from them??
  11. Rapier

    Rapier Supporting Member

    Simple, take some of that money, put it an envelope with the bands name and playing number and slide it under the door of the box.

    (This is obviously a joke. Unless it's a LOT of money. ;) )
  12. JonP

    JonP Member

    p.s if thats your attutiude what are you doing on abrass band website, reading posts like this???
  13. Leyfy

    Leyfy Active Member

    Thank goodness - or we'd all have to drink lots of beer, have lots of arguments about who should have won and and all wear the same thing when .... supporting or ..... playing ......?! Ah!

  14. Jan H

    Jan H Moderator Staff Member

    probably he's here because he is a member of that same tiny world...
    actually, I'm also getting a little bit bored from brass bands being compared to football teams all of the time.
  15. JonP

    JonP Member

    Sorry, its only becaus ive been playing fifa on the psp!! great game incidently. I should have used rugby, or maybe cricket.
  16. Alyn James

    Alyn James Member

    To use another sporting analogy, it seems obvious to me that you're on a fishing expedition in the hope of coaxing a nibble from a nice big juicy fish.

    I like to think of Our Thing as an ART FORM. If you're that interested in sport why don't you go fishing for real out in the fresh air - or would that be too cold for you? ;)
  17. JonP

    JonP Member

    Not at all, just starting a debate to see what peoples opinions would be on this Hypothetical situation.

    Any resemblance to real people places or situations is purely coincidental.

    Its not art if your competing. Its a competition. Which is like a sporting event. At least it was last time i looked.

    Perhaps your being a little too clever for your own good!
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2008
  18. Anno Draconis

    Anno Draconis Well-Known Member

    I'd have to agree with MoominDave, I can't conceive of that actually being a real situation. What band (even with the most deep-pocketed sponsor) has that sort of money (£100,000+ per year, every year) to chuck about simply paying for players and an MD?

    Sorry, don't get it :confused:

    Plus I'd have to agree with this. Take Howard Snell for instance; when he conducted Desford and Foden's (correct me if I'm wrong, here) he didn't manage to win either Open or Nationals with them, but he was widely acknowledged as one of the finest MDs in the business and both bands were recognised as among the finest in the world under his direction. Contest results are not the only measure of success, if they were Cory would still be competing at Pontins and Grimethorpe at the Mineworkers.
  19. Alyn James

    Alyn James Member

    YIPPEE!!! Caught one!!!!!! :clap: ................On second thoughts maybe I'll throw this one back........:p
  20. TheMusicMan

    TheMusicMan tMP Founder Staff Member

    Sorry but there's one of the most ridiculous comments I have seen made on tMP in quite some time. If you really do think this, then quite honestly I feel you have a significant amount of learning to do.:rolleyes:

Share This Page