What Harm Would it do to be Able to Register for More Than One Band ?

Discussion in 'The Rehearsal Room' started by Robin Norman, Oct 17, 2006.

  1. Robin Norman

    Robin Norman Member

    What harm would it really do if the BB movement was to allow all players to be registered with more than one band ?

    Looking at this website, and particularly knowing about bands in my area, many bands are finding it increasingly difficult to find players to fill vacancies. This means that bands are 'surviving' with, in some cases, as few as 10-12 players on a regular basis, borrowing 'semi-regular' players for concerts and then 'buying in a band' for contests. This can't really be helping the movement; more bands are 'going under' and things just appear to be struggling in certain areas of the country.

    I heard at the weekend that at least one major 'named' band are struggling to fill a vacancy due to a lack of players in their area and I also know that, in East Anglia, there are at least 4 bands with Baritone vacancies, 5 with Sop vacancies and the players just aren't there. Those that do have these players are always very protective (understandably) and these players are in great demand for concerts week-in week-out.

    So, what would be the problem with players being able to register with two (or possibly even three) bands ? Some players would happily be out 3, 4, 5 or more nights per week playing with bands; what harm would it do to allow this to happen not just for concerts but for contests as well.

    Obviously some rules and regulations would need to be put in place to ensure that 'bands don't just buy in 'big names' to try to win a contest as this would not necessarily be fair but, for the sake of the movement perhaps we need to 'modernise' the registration rules. As far as I am aware the BB movement is the only one that even uses the registration rules and in Orchestras, Concert Bands and all other areas of music, you play where you want to play with no restrictions. Also, conductors are allowed to conduct as many bands as they like, why aren't the players allowed the same courtesy ?

    I'm just interested to see everybody's views on this .
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2006
  2. Rapier

    Rapier Supporting Member

    Not a fan of contesting personally, but I could see that only the 'best' players would contest for the majority of bands. Taken to extremes you could get the same band staying on stage for all of a contest, with just a different Conductor coming out to take them. So, a No vote from me. Keep it the same as it is.
  3. annieds

    annieds Member

    I wonder whether registering for more than one band might cause a conflict of interest if one were allowed to register for bands in the same section. On the other hand, allowing players to register for bands in different sections would eventually bring the bands to one level as the best players would play for everyone, the players would have to chose which band to play for if their bands ended up in the same section. They would, inevitably, choose the better band, the lesser band would collapse and civilisation would be at an end.
    On a personal note, if my MD could entice championship players to play in our (almost top of the) second section band, I would be ninth 3rd cornet and hanging on for survival, so I don't fancy it much.
  4. GJacko

    GJacko Member

    The shortage of players, in my opinion, is fuelled by the current rules on transfer, cancellations and re-registrations. This means it is possible for players to cancel and re-register without any acknowledgement to the grading of the band they were or are playing in.

    Take for instance the recent discussion on the Finals entries, whereby lower section bands were signing players from top section bands, without any fear of them being able to return ready for next year's regionals.

    This means that bands can fill seats fairly easily, on a temporary basis. Those with a few £££ in their pocket can always fill a seat for a contest and, yes I have seen this happen at close hand.

    If we are to retain our movements hobby-like status, then the rules still need amending and tightened. This may mean that some bands will eventually fall by the wayside, but this should be viewed as evolutionary. The important thing is an individuals commitment to a single organisation. I haven't come accross any band that isn't a full time commitment.
  5. salefc

    salefc Member

    Actually the rules state that if a player's card is cancelled and a new registration occurs for that player that the rules for going back to your old band still apply, i.e. the 6 month rule and so does the 2 transfers per year. Now whether the registries enforce this, I don't know. Probably too much hassle for them. But perhaps their database systems aren't up to scratch to check this for them! After all people's DOB don't change. How hard can it be.
  6. Robin Norman

    Robin Norman Member

    Possibly didn't explain myself very well but, as far as I can see (especially in East Anglia), playing for more than one band is happening anyway for all the concerts that happen. My suggestion is whetherwe should find a way to extend this so that the band that are doing the concerts will still be the band that are doing contest.

    There must be a way of organising registration rules to make this workable or are we happy just 'plodding along' the way we are. It is a known fact that contest entries are down and, in some cases, contests are being cancelled due to lack of entries. Yet the bands are doing concerts. Could the reason the bands are not contesting be because they rely on a core of players who currently play for more than one band; they can't afford to buy in new players just for one day and so they just don't go. I think this will probably have a bearing on their decision.

    Allowing players to register with more than one, or introducing a standard 'across-the-board' borrowed player system may alleviate this.
  7. Robin Norman

    Robin Norman Member

    The same could be said about conductors and yet this is still allowed to happen. Taking this discussion in the other direction then should we, perhaps, register the conductor as well ???
  8. GJacko

    GJacko Member

    Yes, they are the rules (as I understand them) and they are implemented. But this is still too loose and doesn't stop cancellations and movements around bands at a moments notice. The transfer period is four weeks. Not four days.


    How about looking at it another way? ... I live in the middle of knowhere as far as brass banding is concerned. My local band (which is 15 miles away) is struggling as far as basses are concerned: 2 EEbs. there are only 2 other bands closeby and they are about 30 miles away.

    I have played for bands of all sections from champ to now 3rd section and consider myself a half decent bass player. NOw, one of the other bands has a vacancy for a bass player which I have the ability to fill. That leaves the option of one band being a bass down of I were to choose the other, and the other being 3 basses down if Iwere to choose the first. With me.....?:confused: Now, Obviously loyalty and such other things play their role in chosing a band, but that is not the point of this thread. If the rules were relaxed, eg a certain number of players that could contest for more than one band (not thought about the technecalities of this), then both bands could benefit... I think...

    Obviously there may be issues as discussed above, but I would have tought that the Big boys would not allow their players to play for other big bands if such a rule were to be put in place.

    Just my pre lunch ramblings.
  10. JR

    JR Member

    But we already have dual or in some cases treble registration!! - the classic cases of Belgian sopranos and principal cornets playing for top Yorkshire bands as well their own on a fairly regular basis...
    And didnt one or two of these guys turn up at the Northern Area earlier this year?
    What's going to happen at the International Masters event? - precisely who are these people registered with?

    John R
  11. Bungle

    Bungle Member

    I think it is more due to lack of generating players, quite often we fall into the trap of assuming that players will fall into our laps and I can only commend those with youth bands and training bands making up for our apathy. Borrowing players should only be a short term measure, otherwise you are on the slippery slope of having half a regular band then cannot attract any players. Long term borrowing is the easy way out. It's surprising if you make an real effort, players can be found, chase every lead, it may be that music teacher from a local private school who might like start playing again, you won't find out until you contact them.

    Also bands should not be content with just a full complement of players, bands should be looking to have four trombones, four horns, five basses, five front row cornets etc, then you won't be short of players. It can be done if you can be bothered.
  12. Well said! It is all about generating players for the future and creating a Band in the true sense of the word....a group of loyal people working together!

    In my opinion, it is the restriction on the number of players that can take a stage that contributes to the player shortage problem.....if a band has a player of lesser ability in an over-sized section (as far as the rules are concerned) then they cannot participate with their Band.....they may leave to join another band in the area, or more likely give up altogether for the pure reason that they weren't given the chance to develop! Two years later when the superstar players that came in leave for bigger and better things (or more money)......the band is short of players.

    As far as conductors go....I say register them like players, lets develop the conducting talent rather than restrict it's progress.
  13. matthetimp

    matthetimp Member

    If you played say, percussion in one band, as long as you didn't play percussion in the second band (i.e play cornet as a 2nd instrument) I wouldn't see that as a problem. More bands would compete. I think this shoiuld be allowed, but the person cannot play the same insrument for the two bands. Any Thoughts?
  14. matthetimp

    matthetimp Member

    What if you put a different name for your second band. Wear glasses and a wig to alter your apperance? OOOOOOOOOOOOOO there's an idea
  15. JohnnyEuph

    JohnnyEuph Member

    been done already
  16. matthetimp

    matthetimp Member

    Who by? did it work?
  17. Bones101

    Bones101 New Member

    Personally, I don;t hink there should be a limitation at all. But if there were some genral guidelines then they should at least include the following.

    You can only play for one band in an one area - that will limit the amount you can do
    You can't drop a section
    You can go up a section - good experience opportunities
    You can only play with one band at the national finals ie the one that you are registered with

    Excluding the Area and the Open, look the amount of borrowing that goes off at other contents, ie Spennymoor, the Masters, the English Nationals, Pontins and Butlins for example. So it is not like it is a new thing.

    We have a shortage, and the only way to deal with that shortage is to react sensibly to it. There isn't the same problem in wind bands cos they do not treat competetion in the same way as Banders.
  18. sparkling_quavers

    sparkling_quavers Active Member

    I don't agree with that one - why shouldn't a player move to a lower section band? There could be many reasons eg to gain a different position, moving to a new area and wanting the 'right' band socially, playing in the same band as a partner or kiddy or to support a band you might have a particular link with. I am not talking about ringers here I just think there are loads of reasons people may join a lower section band.
  19. Bones

    Bones Member

    How I meant it working, was that if for example you were playing with black dyke in Yorkshire, then you can;t go and play with Long Eaton Silver Prize in the Midlands a week later. That would be unfair. But yes I agree, if a player then wants to transfer to a lower section that would be OK, so the primary band would be the lower section one. This happens in contests now, for example, if I was playing in the top section at Pontins, I can't play in the 3rd section, even if socially it was the right band.

    I've already seen flaws in my suggestions, so there is no perfect answer.
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2006
  20. matthetimp

    matthetimp Member

    Correct. I would help a local band in 4th section (even though my band is top flight next year). I play Percussion for my band, whereas I would go and play solo cornet for them. Not really an unfair advantage to other bands then is it?

Share This Page