what about a 5th section

Discussion in 'The Rehearsal Room' started by Forest Gump, May 26, 2006.


a 5th section

Poll closed Jun 2, 2006.
  1. good idea

  2. bad idea

  1. Forest Gump

    Forest Gump Member

    why not have a 5th section for non contesting bands,i play in a band which is low in numbers but can make a good sound( once a second section band}but now the jump from us to the better 4th section bands is massive.
    if you had a 5th section you could judged more fairly and incorage bands like ours, this would help our survival. what do you think?
  2. DaveR

    DaveR Active Member

    The North Wales association used to do this - I don't know if they still do. It's a good idea.
  3. Charmed

    Charmed Active Member

    Is the point you are trying to make that non contesting bands want to contest but feel they are not at the standard of the 4th section?


    If they are non contesting bands because they don't want to contest, then what's the point of having a 5th section?

    Just a thought.....
  4. Cornishwomble

    Cornishwomble Active Member

    I agree with Susan on this, if they are bnon-contesting then no need for an extra contesting section. If a band goes into the 4th section it doesn't matter if they come last or near to last, they are still getting experiance.

    Gosport Silver are an example of this (conducted by Tmp's Choirmaster) they've never contested before this year and entered the 4th section at the West of England and I think they played at Crawley too.
  5. Forest Gump

    Forest Gump Member

    5th section

    if you hav'nt got enouth players to be competative or you're band containes a lot of very young players,it is very harsh to be judged against some quite profesional bands .
    my point is that you make this section would be a bit more relaxed and more posative for bands that have a few problems at the moment many bands are just not being encoraged i think it very sad
  6. Cornishwomble

    Cornishwomble Active Member

    But what your describing sounds like the 4th section anyway. If you take the West of England section that had 26 bands and London and Southern Counties who had 23 then a lot of those bands will fit the profile you mentioned. As I said in my earlier post Gosport was one such band.
    There is no pressure in the 4th section unless you are one of the bands who are looking to get promoted but for a non-contesting band looking to take part, I can't see the problem
    Last edited: May 26, 2006
  7. Charmed

    Charmed Active Member

    I have to agree with Cornishwomble. There is enough organisation to do with 4 sections, and the 4th section has bands such as you describe as well as bands that are able to compete for the 3rd section.

    And it doesn't just affect the 4th section. Look at bands in the Championship section, the difference of standard in some of these bands are huge. You could say have a championship top section and championship bottom section. A line has to be drawn somewhere.
  8. Forest Gump

    Forest Gump Member

    the fact is that our band would'nt go to a 4th section contest with 16 players, i also know there are other bands that feal the same way the current system excludes us if you were in our position perhaps you would feel differently
  9. andywooler

    andywooler Supporting Member

    Some years ago, SCABA held a contest under the banner "Stars of Tomorrow" for non contesting bands. Very flexible registration rules with a view to encouraging some of them to step up to regular contesting. (They were only allowed to enter if they had not contested for a specified period).

    From the perspective that one of those bands was what is now LGB Brass, National Finals qualifiers, it was a success!
  10. Charmed

    Charmed Active Member

    Okay, then how would the test piece be chosen? How can bands such as the one you describe be judged fairly? If you haven't got a full(ish) band then how could you be judged? What if you only had one horn player and another had 3 horn players? How would it be fairer in this proposed section, if the judge chose the band that had a 'fuller' band as the winner because they gave the more balanced performance?

    I understand what you are getting at, but realistically, I think a section such as you are describing could and would, in my opinion, cause 'more' bad feelings when results are announced.

    Then again, I have been known to be wrong........;)
  11. Charmed

    Charmed Active Member

    No problems with this format. This is a different scenario altogether than the one that is being suggested.
  12. brasscrest

    brasscrest Active Member

    The NABBA contest here in the US has an "Exhibition" section - bands can play for comments from the adjudicators but there is no competition and no prizes - competitive results are not announced at all. So bands with a non-standard instrumentation, not enough players, etc. can still participate in a "contest" situation. NABBA has a "mixed" format, with the bands playing a set test piece and an own-choice piece. This section has been used in the past as an introduction for bands that were just beginning to contest that have since moved into one of the competitive sections.
  13. Charmed

    Charmed Active Member

    Exactly. Having a 'contest' such as this is exactly what is needed for bands such as those that stuart545 is referring to. But not in the proposed format of a 5th section in the 'normal' contests.
  14. Liz Courts

    Liz Courts Active Member

    I think that a fifth section is a fantastic idea. There are so many bands that contest locally in Cornwall, but not in the regional/national forth section, most likely because they feel that it is out of their league (St Agnes, Redruth, Indian Queens, Lostwithiel, Pendeen, Truro, Newquay......).

    A fifth section where the set pieces are the most simple of test pieces, maybe those chosen for a junior section, and are playable by bands that might have a few vacancies would allow these bands to take part, and not feel that they are up against bands that are closer to a third section standard.

    After hearing the West of England fourth section at the regionals this year, I believe that the six placed bands were definitely of a third section standard, and even those placed in the twenties :)eek:) were of a standard that the likes of St Agnes would find hard to compete with.
  15. BigHorn

    BigHorn Active Member

    I don't think a 5th section is a good idea. If a band doesn't want to contest then it won't change its mind just because there's a lower section. A lot of non-contesting bands are made of ex-contesting players and are more than able to compete at 4th section and above (if they wanted to). Killamarsh and Pleasley are just 2 off the top of my head that are fairly local to us.

    A fifth section to atttract half populated bands and starter bands might actually hold entrants to such a section back and make them complacent.

    Also a good full 4th section band may have a string of 2 or 3 dodgy area results and suddenly they will be forced to compete against incomplete bands, youth bands or bands not taking it very seriously. A recipe for a mass exodus I would expect.
  16. zak

    zak Member

    And after a 5th section people would no doubt want a 6th section for whatever reason, the line has to be drawn somewhere.
    In my personal opinion there is no need for a 5th section as the 4th section already accomodates non-contesting bands if they choose to try contests. No matter how many, or what section a band is in there will always be arguements that certain bands are too good for a particular section for whatever reason.

  17. Craigsav83

    Craigsav83 Active Member

    I don't think there is any need for another section in contesting - in fact, in my opinion, we need to lose a section, split the first section in half, with the higher bands going into the Championship section, and shuffling the lower sections about a bit, in general, and increase the average section size to about 16.
  18. andywooler

    andywooler Supporting Member

    Whilst I can't speak for cornwall, as far as my own band is concerned, we don't do the nationals either - simply because I don't attach any importance to it for my band (others may disagree). So if I were to be the MD of one of those bands, a 5th section wouldn't motivate me to enter either.

    At local level, we don't have the current 5 sections anyway - and I would guess most local associations can't support running 5 smaller sections either. I enter contests to improve the band rather than to win cups (although that is nice when it happens of course) and a trip to Harrogate!! (no offense to anyone who lives there!)
  19. $hytalk

    $hytalk Member

    We already have 5 sections. What seems to be needed is a radical review of our current grading system and the criteria for promotion and relegation, and the re-definition of the geographical areas for the sake of equity.Adding a 6th section(5th) in areas where they are already low on numbers does'nt seem to make sense, and in areas like the south and Cornwall and the North West , where there are very large 4th sections, it might mean some of those bands having to go down, which they probably won't want to do.I believe that non-contesting bands are just that, for whatever reason and if you want to contest, then the 4th section already offers a band a good opportunity to go and play a simple piece well. Don't forget, that the adjudicators are always telling us to play something that you can play really well.Contests are adjudicated on performance and not necessarily the hardest piece or even who are the best band in the contest.
  20. michellegarbutt

    michellegarbutt Supporting Member

    Here in the North of England we struggle to fill the sections we have. At this years area there were only 5 of us in 2nd section. If you introduced another section we would have to be spread out even thinner and in the end we're not going to have enough bands to make a contest worth holding

Share This Page