Welsh European Qualification.

Discussion in 'The Rehearsal Room' started by topeuph, Mar 25, 2006.

  1. topeuph

    topeuph Member

    If Buy as you View were to win the Europeans in Befast, would another Welsh band be invited to represent Wales at next years Europeans?
    This has happened on numerous occasions with two English bands in the Europeans (The holder and Best English band at the Nationals), but would the same apply for welsh bands ie Buy as you View + the runner up at this years Welsh championships (Burry Port).
    This subject affects me directly since I play for Burry Port, so i'm gagging to know if we'll be in it.
    Does anyone out there have any ideas?
  2. TheMusicMan

    TheMusicMan tMP Founder Staff Member

    I guess the rules should be the same and therefore if Cory win then yes there has to be the possibility of this happening.

    Good luck to you...
  3. DavidSmith37

    DavidSmith37 New Member

    This is a thread thats just started in the Welsh regional forum here so i emailed Iwan Fox directly as it was his retrospective that brought all this to light as he said ........ "but perhaps subconsciously the competitive edge had been dulled by the fact that the band had little to play for except pride (there was no European qualification place up for grabs either for the winners)."

    The response I got back from 4BR is as follows "The decision to which band will be nominated as Welsh representataive for the 2007 contest will be made by the new Welsh European organisation after this year's European at Belfast, as the old committee which decided the matter no longer exists and has since been replaced by the new one which has yet to decide which criteria it uses to choose which band it sends to the following year's contest ....... Complex isn't it!"

    So take from that what you will but if BAYV to succeed in Belfast it looks like the new Welsh European organisation will select a second representative after this years Euros. IMHO it should be the second placed band from the Swansea contest as this is the only contest where all bands from Wales have the opportunity to compete against each other during the banding year.
  4. tubaturk

    tubaturk Member

    Thanks for looking into this David - we'll just have to wait and see then, although we (Burry Port) will probably be more than a little aggrieved if they come up with an alternative criteria that puts another Welsh band ahead of BAYV or ourselves. Whatever happens, they should decide their criteria before this year's contest in Belfast - we don't want a scenario where they wait for the results until deciding the rules.

    What we don't want is the following:
    Scenario 1 - BAYV finish second or worse and then we get a Jim Bowen "look what you could have won" letter from the new organisation telling us that we would have qualified for next year's contest if they had won.
    Scenario 2 - BAYV win, get invited to Birmingham in 2007 as holders and the organisation then announce that they will not be inviting another Welsh representative.
    Scenario 3 - BAYV win, get invited to Birmingham in 2007 and the organisation announce that they will invite a big name Welsh band of their choosing based on reputation.
  5. David Francis

    David Francis Member

    The situation, as I see it, is that the Welsh Regionals is no more nor less than any of the other regions which take part in the British Championships, and as such do not really stand as a nation on its own, it is a part of the NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS. No other region has the right to send their winning band to the Europeans. I believe that the representative bands in the European Championships should be the best bands from the National Championships.
    What should happen if BAYV do not finish in top six and Burry Port not in top 10.?
    Just food for thought! We do need to have a stronger Welsh Championship before we consider more than one band for the Europeans. We did have an arguement a couple of years ago when both CoryBAYV and Tredagar finished in top three in Nationals.
    Dai Francis
  6. BandTaxi

    BandTaxi Active Member

    Wales is a COUNTRY, as is Scotland. These two are both independent NATIONS and therefore fundamentally different to the other Regions, which are exactly as described - regions (of England).

    The National Brass Band Championships of Great Britain not surprisingly produce the Champion Band of GREAT BRITAIN.
    Great Britain do not send a representative to the Europeans - Bands are sent by the individual countries of England, Scotland, and Wales, Norway, Netherlands, etc....
  7. prince_turhan

    prince_turhan New Member

    How much stronger could it be when you have all the Welsh championship section bands together in the Brangwyn Hall? Also, the fact that Wales and Scotland are already invited to the Europeans, and have been for years, should be reason enough to satisfy their own legitimacy in the competition.

    Perhaps Mr Francis would prefer a single UK entry into the Europeans? And while we're at it, lets alter the Six Nations rugby union tournament and amalgamate Scotland, Wales and England into a single UK entrant. We could also save a little money in the current Commonwealth games and disband the English, Scottish and Welsh teams. In fact, isn't the European championships a bit of a con - a single European entry against the rest of the world perhaps?

    I wonder what the brass band scene is like on the planet Mars?
  8. dyl

    dyl Active Member

  9. johnmartin

    johnmartin Active Member

    Not quite correct there. The Scottish Brass Band Assocation had existed for many years prior to the advent of the regional qualifiers for the National Championships. Scotland is an independent nation with its own set of rules and its own Scottish Championship contest and is also a member of EBBA. Agreement was reached with the Daily Herald organisation in 1958 that the Scottish Championship contest would also be used to determine the qualifiers for the National Championships, and subsequently the European Championships, upon their inception in 1978.
  10. Anno Draconis

    Anno Draconis Well-Known Member

    Bit harsh on Burry Port, I would have thought. After all they have beaten some good bands. And nobody is suggesting that Wales should have an extra representative every year, simply that if BAYV win in Belfast they should be invited back as reigning champions and a different band should go as Wales ofiicial representative. This is how the competiton has worked for years, and if we were talking about Dyke and YBS the question would not be asked. The only thing that is unclear is exactly how Iwan Fox's new organisation will pick Wales' EBBA representative. I can't imagine any fairer way than using the Welsh Regionals.
  11. Sonny Barker

    Sonny Barker Member

    What utter rubbish! Wales cannot stand as a nation on it's own? In what way?

    Numerically? - We've got loads of bands...
    Quality? - err.. right... who do you play for?

    Besides which, through Kapitol, the Welsh OWN the National.

    Good argument...
  12. Sonny Barker

    Sonny Barker Member

    This apparent dithering (they'va had months to get this sorted out) is just sowing the seeds of confusion. If the meeting hasn't taken place, how can Mr. Fox state that the Regional wasn't the qualifier?

    We Welsh just love our committees and our meetings. Like the WRU, let's hope that none have already taken place. However, some sort of decision seems to have already been made.
  13. JayneSop

    JayneSop Member

    Hi all

    We could look at other criteria to invite another welsh band if BAYV become champions. We could maybe ask the 2005 Welsh League Champions??? Or the only Welsh band last year to win a big Contest... something like the Senior Cup?? Or we could ask the band that did come second in the 2006 Area Regional Contest in Swansea. Surprise, Surprise!!! Who achived all that in the last 12 months .... Burry Port Band!!! I know I'm biased but the band has had a fantastic last 12 months and feel if there is a 'second welsh spot' at the europeans than Burry Port should be invited on merit and not only for last weeks success.

    Feel better now after saying all that!!!
  14. Anno Draconis

    Anno Draconis Well-Known Member

    To my mind there's no question that if a second Welsh band are to go to Birmingham in 2007 it should be Burry Port. However as Gog, I have major issues with the suggestion that the "Welsh League" should be used to decide the Welsh representative for the European. That's how it used to be done, and it meant the North Wales bands joined the NW area instead, because they couldn't claim the "Champion Band of Wales" title without going to at least 4 contest in South Wales. If you want to have a league to decide it there should be at most 2 contests in the south, one in the West (maybe Aberystwyth) and one in the North (maybe Llandudno). And I can't imagine BAYV trekking off to Aber or Llandudno just to rack up league points; if they don't enter it then devalues the title because you haven't pitted yourself against the best band in Wales.

    The only fair solution that I can see is, like Scotland, to treat the Welsh Area as the Welsh "National Championship" with the winner in each section declared the Champion Band of Wales.
  15. tubaturk

    tubaturk Member

    Totally agree that in the absence of a truly All-Welsh League, the regional is by far the fairest way of deciding European qualification. However, what Jayne was saying is that Burry Port's result wasn't perhaps as much of a blip as it may have seemed on first glance, given the fact that we haven't finished lower than 2nd in any of the 5 contests we've entered since last year's regionals.

    Certain contributors seem to be suggesting that we are not worthy of our place because we haven't done anything at the National Finals and only the very best bands that are successful there should go to the Europeans. Well if we apply the same logic to the Olympic Games for example, no athlete from a minor nation (including GB at the moment) would be allowed to compete in the sprints, with the competition made up entirely of American and Jamaican athletes. Would this really be in the spirit of the event? The same could be said of the Europeans - maybe we should stop all these upstart "Jonny Foreigners" from competing until they're all as good as Dyke, YBS, etc.?;)
  16. Anno Draconis

    Anno Draconis Well-Known Member

    Couldn't agree more!

    Not me guv!
    In fact a lot of people did say that of the early Europeans, where the continental bands were outclassed. Then they kept on saying it right up until '88 when those cheeky upstarts from Eikanger went and won. Foreigners, eh :roll: ; it's the same with football, should never have let the Brazilians in on it ;)
  17. HSB

    HSB Member

  18. topeuph

    topeuph Member

    We're not getting ahead of ourselves . We're well aware that there are other bands in the European with excellent records in the competition who will be striving to make this thread rather academic. But you can't blame us for dreaming.
  19. JayneSop

    JayneSop Member

  20. DavidSmith37

    DavidSmith37 New Member

    I agree with almost all that is said here on this, (apart from someone trying to stir things a little earlier about "nations" which was kinda laughable as a few people took the bait), and it does appear that the Welsh qualification place for Eurpope is still in some doubt until there is an "official" announcement by someone soon ..... and yes, Buy As You View have to win it before there is any question of a second representation. However, if they don't win, what is the criteria for selecting the welsh representative for next years Europeans in Belfast ..... anyone know? All we need is for someone to come out and tell us!
    Hopefeully all sense will prevail and the best will be invited each year ... and as Welsh, Scots, Irish, Norwegian, Dutch, Belgian, oooooppppss and English (only joking), or any other nation that puts a band forward to represent them, lets hope they are the best because then, and only then, will you get the true European champions (unless you put an interesting concoction in the adjudicators box... and boy have we had some over the last 4 or 5 years!) ...... so here's one to put the cat amongst the pidgeons ...... we all go through our qualification contests each year for the esteem to play at the RAH in October and if we are lucky enough we qualify for the Euros the year after .... so, a question ........ under what criteria have YBS qualified for the Euros in Belfast this year because apparently they have been "invited" ..... ( a little early for Bonfire night, however ......... light blue touch paper and stand well back)!

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