Welsh Entry to Europeans, Do we want change.

Discussion in 'The Rehearsal Room' started by JonP, May 24, 2006.


Welsh Champions, How should we qualify. Read Initial Post for optyions 1-4

  1. Stay The Same

    13 vote(s)
  2. Old System, Welsh Champions

    6 vote(s)
  3. A new Contest

    8 vote(s)
  4. New Contest along with the Area

    7 vote(s)
  1. JonP

    JonP Member

    Vote in the Poll to give an indication how the majority feel about the current way the Welsh Bands qualify for the Europeans. My suggestions are rough, but may give an idea in which direction we should try and push change, or show we are happy as we are.

    Following options numbered one to 4 correspond with the Poll.

    1. At the Area, (Current System), stay as we are.

    2. Chamipon Band of Wales decided over the 4 Current Welsh Contests and They Qualify

    3. Another New Contest i.e. Welsh Nationals acts as Qualifyer.

    4. A Welsh Open or Nationals is introduced, And an aggrigate result from the Area and this Contest will Decide the Welsh Chamipions and they will Qualify.
  2. nickjones

    nickjones Active Member

    I think the priorities for Welsh Banding are to get it's own house in order , realistically the European only affects one Welsh Band in a banding year , one regional commitee looking after every band at every level not just a few elite bands ,what welsh banding needs are more youth development schemes , fund raising projects , less emphisis on competitions more inter band co-operation.
    there are more and more bands who are sick of competiting and the signs are that two ormore North Wales Bands will not compete at next years area , It must be bad when bands really close to Swansea can't get a band to compete at the area. Is this what the regional commitee want? back to the bad old days of little own choice and entertainment competitions to decide European qualification , also with no North Wales Bands involvement? I hope not.....
    I would like to think that other people would think that these are some steps to move forward.
    None of the above polls are suitable why go back to a system which clearly did not work.
    Last edited: May 24, 2006
  3. stotty74

    stotty74 Member

    Will agree with all of Nick's points - there are a lot of problems regarding Welsh banding at the moment. The least important is definitely that of who should qualify for the Europeans.

    But, in answer to the original questions posed, here are my thoughts...

    1-Seems to be the only contest where all bands who have a chance (or not) to qualify actually compete. Not perfect, but if the English choose from 1 contest, then why not the Welsh

    2-By 4 current Welsh contests, i take it you mean the four that are all held down south? And that almost no North Walian bands compete in? What about the North Wales Rally, or should that not count aswell? This would mean the likes of Beaumaris, Northop, Wrexham, Llanrug and others would never have a chance of qualifying, even if we were the best band, because it is simply too expensive to attend 4 contests a year that are more than 4 hours drive away.

    3-We don't need another one-off contest to decide who should qualify. May as well just leave it as the area's rather than introduce another which is not guaranteed to attract all bands.

    4-This may be an option. Having 2 contests, the other preferably in North Wales, would mean a band has to be consistent to qualify, and not just get lucky in the areas (not suggesting BAYV have ever been lucky to win though!!). But again, it's introducing another contest, which as Nick has already said, people may be getting bored of contesting.

    However it's decided, it should be made fair, open, and inexpensive to all bands that would like the chance of qualifying.
  4. nickjones

    nickjones Active Member

    It not a case of boredom of competiting , it's the financial implications of two or more trips down south which put bands off , as far as we can make out £2000 has been set aside for help to North Wales bands to compete at the Brangwyn ( shared out between the bands who compete that is about £200 each) , really appriciate the token gesture but why dont we just save that money put it aside and hire a North Wales venue for the All Wales area from 2009 onwards, it might give South Wales bands an idea on what you have to do to compete , it's already been decided to hold the area in Swansea for the next two years. As a member of a North Wales band would love to put these ideas to an all Welsh Forum but unfortunatly we don't have an organisation who will listen to any ideas.
    The Euro question only applies to one band , and when more than 5 Welsh Bands bands wont enter due to problems associated with Competiting, I think there are far more important questions need answering than who pays for a band to go to the Euro or what qualifying method should be used.
    Making welsh banding more attractive to outside investment , festivals to generate money etc...that is more important.
  5. Pythagoras

    Pythagoras Active Member

    This might be a stupid suggestion, coming from an Englishmen (but who competes in a geographically huge area, the midlands) but couldn't you put the contest somewhere in mid wales?

    As for the Europeans. Definitely leave it as just the areas, or you would start disadvantaging less financially well-off bands.
  6. Suz

    Suz Member


    I think the Europeans place should be decided on the area. The same principal applies in Scotland.

    Not a bad idea that the Welsh area should be held either in Mid Wales, not sure if there are any suitable venues though?

    Why not alternate between North and South for the Areas?

  7. nickjones

    nickjones Active Member

    There are a few brilliant venues in Mid Wales , Aberystwyth Uni and arts centre ( venue for the 1994,95,96,97 areas) , theatre Hafarn ( Newtown) , Welshpool.
    The venues for a Midwales area available for the area are there.
  8. JonP

    JonP Member

    So shuould we not have at least 2 adjudicators. Seems to me a bit much for one man's decision to dictate national and european entry. And the 18 month future of welsh banding. Theyb have 2 adjudicators in Yorkshire i seem to remember? Might be wrong.

    I was suggesting through option 2, that we use the existing welsh contests.
    I was also thinking through 3 and 4 of having a second Open style contest and gettign rid of the existing 3 welsh contests. This would have to be in a geographically acceptable area for all concearned, and compliment the area venue, and would have to be a well organised contest on the level of the Scottish open, or English Nationals that would guarentee all entrants would attend.

    I have some other ideas and will start a better structured discussion than this soon, but wanted to guage the level of interest first.

    P.S is there actually a national body, in Wales or the UK that can implement change on the smaller associations, or do we have to get the west wales association etc to agree with new ideas?
    Last edited: May 24, 2006
  9. Suz

    Suz Member

    Definitely, there are a few area contests using two adjudicators.

    I don't think it is a sensible idea to have the Europeans place decided on the four local contests as that is not fair on the bands in North Wales, as previously mentioned.

    Last edited: May 24, 2006
  10. Bones

    Bones Member

    Another good thread.

    National Finals - Highest placed English/Scottish and Welsh Band go through to the Euros.

    I know there are more English bands in it, but hey that's life.
  11. JonP

    JonP Member

    Quite, Im personally up for number 4. We could have a North Wales contest as a Welsh Open, with proper prize money gala concert etc etc. I mean this for all the sections of course not just the Championship. Although logistics would be far from simple i know.
  12. glen miler

    glen miler Member

    Definately 2 in every area. I would would not offer prize money for the areas as no one is in it to win a few hundred quid but would use money saved to have 2 adjudicators.

    Am not Welsh or in a Welsh band but would perhaps suggest the band that can grow the biggest leek be entered into the Europeans.
  13. DublinBass

    DublinBass Supporting Member

    I wonder if Pontins would shell out more serious cash money if the aggregate between their contest and the areas determined the euro spot? (with only the relative ranking of welsh bands as the factor)?
  14. dyl

    dyl Active Member

    But what if you got 2 freemasons in the box Jon? ;)

    I'm voting for keeping it for the area - it's the only contest where the whole of Wales is represented. Qualification for the National Finals is from a one-off contest so I see no reason why qualification for the Euro shouldn't be the same. Until something is done to get bands from ALL OVER Wales competing regularly against each other - one contest up North, one Mid and one South, then the Area is the only sensible, and fair, option.
  15. midwalesman

    midwalesman Member

    I've not competed in the Welsh area for a long time and am not privy to the politics that seems to complicate the situation. I think that it's about time surely to level the playing field, geographically anyway, making bands travel down from the north all the time seems a bit unfair on those bands who have to subsidize expensive trips every year. Why not do what the Eisteddfods do, have a North, Mid and South in a rotation system, with a sweeper at the back and a burly John Hartson up front! In all seriousness I think having it at a different venue would even the costs (perhaps!!) I think it's a shame that they don't do it at Aberystwyth, (being obviously biased!!) I enjoyed being able to stagger home after the contest!
  16. nickjones

    nickjones Active Member

    I think representitives of all bands in Wales need to sit down and work out stratagies and funding for all these ideas for Welsh Opens and qualifiers , it's a case of don't run before you can walk. the North Wales competition is in no state to attract the best bands in Wales , the whole structure needs changing , best knock it all down work out what is needed and carry on from there. Pontins is a UK competition and best kept as such and shouldn't be a qualifyer or a welsh points competition.
    We have the venues to hold 3 competitions nationwide ( Millenium centre cardiff ,Waterfront Newport, Aberystwyth Uni and Arts centre,Theatre Hafarn , William Aston Wrexham , Bangor Uni Main Arts the Galeri Caernarfon.
    The reason for more than one competition is from South Wales who would prefer 4 competitions to qualify for the Euro in the old qualifying system , this is explained why in other threads here.
    Welsh Banding needs major change , at the moment I have no confidence in how welsh banding is run, the whole structure needs it , not for an elite band and it's qualifying criteria for another expensive "European trip" .
  17. SuperHorn

    SuperHorn Member

    Here we are again Nick, we discussed this topic many times.

    The merry-go-round springs to mind.
  18. nickjones

    nickjones Active Member

    Can you say Tim that Welsh Banding is in a good state? All bands have to have an input , lets get the basics right before having wonderful ideas for a Welsh Open / Qualifying criteria for the European , this year Ammanford couldn't get a band to the area ( pretty close to Swansea) , Rhyl didn't go this year , we have already lost Point of Ayr because of the band won't entertain the thought of ever competing again ( As much as the rumour mill on 4BR thinks that the band will rise from the ashes) , I have heard this week that two more North Wales Bands wont compete. Is that is acceptable? No it isn't . Here is an open proposal to North Wales bands and the North Wales area commitee , keep the money dontated to North Wales Bands and have the Welsh Area up here.
    lets do something get the foundations right before we lose more bands.
    Last edited: May 25, 2006
  19. matthetimp

    matthetimp Member

    What about using the Pontins contest? Not the most glamourous of places but good prize money, and North Wales Bands can afford to go. North Wales bands make the trip down south for the regionals, why not south wales bands go north for the european qualifier? We have now balanced it up and no-one can grumble that it is unfair on some bands cause we all have to do some travelling.
  20. nickjones

    nickjones Active Member

    Pontins - Not suitable , It's a national competition for 4 sections , the English / Irish / Scottish band who have entered and supported Pontins over the past 32 years would not go for it. It's a non starter to even consider Pontins as a Euro Qualifierfor Wales .

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