Was it really Grimethorpe?

Discussion in 'The Auditorium - Concert Details' started by Brian Bowen, Jan 16, 2010.

  1. Brian Bowen

    Brian Bowen Active Member

    I found it hard to believe it was Grimethorpe Band broadcast on LTTB last evening from Brass in Concert. Questionable tuning, blend and balance, not to mention shrill cornets, it could have been a lower section band. I expect far better from a band with such an illustrious reputation. The pieces played -- two by Brighouse -- were mostly retrogressive. With Frank Renton enthusing so much about it all then it's no wonder the brass band movement is taken none too seriously in some circles. Maybe it was entertaining in the concert hall with visual effects but on radio, where sound is everything, it was a disaster.
  2. ian perks

    ian perks Active Member

    Must admit i heard Grimethorpe last night and at times tuning was very suspect and blend, balance as well.
    However some fine Euph playing from Mike Dodds.:clap:
  3. adrian90s

    adrian90s Member

    it's Mike DODD, always has been.
  4. pt88

    pt88 New Member

    Was it really Grimethorpe

    Have to agree with Brian Grimethorpe was out of controll.
  5. DublinBass

    DublinBass Supporting Member

    As a side note (and a bit off topic). Grimethorpe is the first brass band I have finally found on Pandora (Unfortunately related results thus far have been wind bands)
  6. Bayerd

    Bayerd Active Member

    Unfortunately Frank's stuck between a rock and a hard place, he has to broadcast what was played on the day and he's only going to put a positive spin on it regardless of his own thoughts. Remember that most that are listening to LTTB aren't players themselves, and if they've just been listening to Friday Night is Music Night, they'll be more than used to the level of playing....
  7. Brian Bowen

    Brian Bowen Active Member

    I don't believe Frank Renton has to broadcast what was played on the day. It was not live and the BBC surely has standards. Had the band performed like that in the studio, it would have been edited before broadcasting or possibly the time slot filled out with commercial band recordings. It was quite obvious F.R. thought the final item by Brighouse (the Tiger piece) was hilarious but I'm afraid on radio it was far from that -- more absurd in fact.

    It's a long time since I listened to or performed at Friday Night is Music Night, but I remember standards were higher than this.
  8. Aidan

    Aidan Active Member

    What day would you suggest he broadcasts the highlights from the Brass in Concert Championships from then, if not the day of the contest?
    It was live, and the program is advertised as such. Maybe with a bit of less foot-shooting and more taking ourselves seriously in our own circle I reckon that maybe we would be in a better place to put ourselves across in a more positive light.
  9. Uncle Bryn

    Uncle Bryn Member

    Valuable contribution - thank you :clap:
  10. Brian Bowen

    Brian Bowen Active Member

    The broadcast was this past Friday, that's some weeks after the actual event took place and more than enough time for the BBC producers to select appropriate highlights, assuming there were enough to fill the scheduled broadcasts. My point is that if some of the performances were sub-standard or unsuitable for radio, as I think was the case in this particular LTTB, better not air them. Brass banding needs help with its image and credibility. Had Grimethorpe or others played in such fashion for a BBC studio session, I very much doubt the producer would have found it all acceptable.
  11. apples

    apples New Member

    How many deps they use might affect the sound quality...radio listeners are not easy to please, there are no visual distractions after all. Should have been top class though obviously not quite.
    Look out for Grimethorpe on the Alan Titchmarsh show!
  12. BigHorn

    BigHorn Active Member

    I've just listened and I agree, there is some dodgy playing especially in the last piece the organ symphony. However regarding balance, I think that could well be the positioning of the microphones rather than the band.
  13. Vegasbound

    Vegasbound Active Member

    Although I didnt hear the broadcast......it does highlight the difference between LIVE performance and studio recordings.
  14. Aidan

    Aidan Active Member

    Mic setup/placement is a very big aspect, they cant do a full rig as it would be intrusive to the entertainment value for the audience. One of two pairs of hanging mics will never give you as good a picture in comparison.
    But do you really think that someone from the BBC hasn't listened to the entire contest and selected "highlights"? (probably not Frank's job to begin with)
    Maybe the contest was just sub-standard in terms of playing, but it is an entertainment contest, and it is the only 'entertainment' playing from bands that gets aired on LTTB as far as I'm aware? Pretty sure they don't broadcast siddis highlights.
    All the other 'live' stuff is testpiece highlights, which is always going to be better playing when you look at the difference in preparation the bands put into the performance.
  15. ian perks

    ian perks Active Member

    Well done lol
  16. KMJ Recordings

    KMJ Recordings Supporting Member

    Not listened to it yet....but some thoughts up front....

    As has been alluded to, it's almost certainly not Frank's decision, it's that of the Producers / Exec Producers....and the last time I looked Frank wasn't one of them.

    The issue may be that they'd already paid for the recording and had to justify it's existence. Not broadcasting it would be tantamount to saying that it's not worth doing (separate argument)...in a similar way to underspending a budget in any other Corporate environment that could well mean the budget is slashed the year after, and that means it disappears totally - end result = even less brass bands on the radio.

    Whether or not that applies to filling 'all' the allotted LttB slots is debatable....but Grimethorpe has a very well known name and if the Beeb are trying to appeal to a more general audience following on from Friday Night is Music Night then who better than the Band of which Joe Public is aware?


    ....although given time and budget it is of course possible to cover the stage area by slinging / dropping / otherwise rigging mics so it's not visually intrusive such that you can effectively fully rebalance in post....

    The key word here is budget. It can be much more extensive in terms of time, for example, as well as in gear when you can't use stands.

    Might go and listen in a bit if I get half an hour :)
  17. KMJ Recordings

    KMJ Recordings Supporting Member

    I've just listened to it using the Listen Again facility on the Beeb.


    I've absolutely no idea whether my experience is limited to the listen again stream, or whether the original broadcast was different, but it sounds like the transmission processing has gone askew...the levels and imaging are all over the place...and consequently that affects the perceived balance, sound and - in extreme cases - occasionally the perception of ensemble (not to say that it's perfect ;) )

    Not exactly striking me as a great example of post-production and broadcasting.

    I suspect the source recording is significantly better.
  18. bannisa

    bannisa Member

    It's hard to believe but it was Grimethorpe on LTTB on Friday night!! The cornets were so shrill and the tuning, blend and balance were simply dreadful. It really did sound like a lower section band. I'm sure most listeners would have expected far better from them with their reputation. I'm sure the poor quality of their retrogressive(sic) performance will be driving people away from the brass band movement in droves. What a disaster!!
    It is so damaging for the brass band movement to have Grimethorpe performing at over 40 sell out concerts each year up and down the UK. Far more damaging I feel than petty people making moronic comments about the leading bands in the movement on internet chat rooms.
    My advice would be that if B&R and Grimethorpe don't float your boat, just don't listen. There are plenty of people out there who these bands and others bring an immense amount of pleasure to.

    Yours sincerely

    Andrew Bannister
    Assistant Principal out of tune, shrill cornet
    Grimethorpe Colliery Band
    4th Section Champions Grimethorpe and District entertainment contest
  19. bannisa

    bannisa Member

    I thought the B&R item was superb.
    Grimethorpe performed well enough to come 2nd so what would you have thought of everybody else??

    Keep Music Live
  20. Masterblaster jnr

    Masterblaster jnr Active Member

    Early nomination for post of the year :D Should it not read Andrew Blanndister though? :confused: ;)

    Jonny Bates
    1st Horn - Brighouse and Retrogressive :D

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