UKBBA Who and what?

Discussion in 'The Adjudicators' Comments' started by Frontman, Jun 22, 2011.

  1. Frontman

    Frontman Member

    I am absolutely dumbfounded after reading the following article on 4bars rest.

    Have I missed something or do we have a group of people telling bands what they can and cannot do?

    I thought we lived in a democracy, who are these faces who are attempting to demand that only members of the UKBBA or BFBB can enter our Regional Contests or Butlins Contest?

    Can we have some names then perhaps we can have sensible conversation instead of being told what we have to do.
  2. hobgoblin

    hobgoblin Member

    I wouldn't worry yourself, UKBBa seems to be a dead duck with no mandate if I have read the article correctly.
  3. back beat

    back beat Member

    It's a shame in many ways, a change of government would have been a good thing (especially in Wales).
  4. Bayerd

    Bayerd Active Member

    I wouldn't worry, common sense has prevailed, although it also seems odd that the regional committee spokespeople aren't named either...
  5. DannyCollin

    DannyCollin Member

    No names needed in banding is there? it'll be the usual self-serving types.

    Kapitol are a private company not interested in bands, only the profit that can be made from them.
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2011
  6. Anglo Music Press

    Anglo Music Press Active Member

    Indeed, but if your preference is for a democratically elected body to run the Nationals, then bands have to fund that by being members.

    Last year I took part in a seminar organised by the Norwegian Band Federation which included a module for about 40 13-16-year-olds about how to be a committee member - each band in Norway has one place on the local NMF committee. I wondered (not for long) if that would happen in England. Scotland, possibly.

    We are so far behind them, we can't even see their coat tails. We can't complain about a private company owning the Nationals, if we are not prepared to fund an alternative.
  7. AndyCat

    AndyCat Active Member

    Bang on. Would be nice to see "faces" of all these opposing organisations though.
  8. Anno Draconis

    Anno Draconis Well-Known Member

    I'm also dumbfounded, for entirely opposite reasons. Who are these "seven regional representatives at the recent Kapitol Promotions Forum" who claim to speak for me and my band? When were the elections for this post held? I assume that it includes someone from the NW Regional Committee (not the now defunct NWCBBA or the NWABBA, neither of which has a mandate to speak for all NW bands anyway), but who knows? These seven people have between them appear, from the scant information in the article, to have decided unilaterally against grasping pretty much the only opportunity to reform banding that's come along in 6 decades. Consultation? Nah, we don't bother with that. Waiting for the next meeting to hear firm proposals? No, we're not going to bother with that either. It might be that the UKBBA proposals were a load of rubbish, or unworkable, or unpopular, but they've now been rejected by an anonymous committee without ever getting a decent discussion or hearing.

    Confirmation, for me, that in 20 years if I want to see/hear decent bands playing interesting music as part of a well structured, efficiently managed national movement, I'm going to have to move to Trondheim. UK banding is knackered.

    David, I'd be delighted if someone "told us what to do", quite frankly. This idea that banding has ever had any sort of democratic structure is a fallacy, we've been happy to allow businesses and strong willed individuals to run banding's major institutions to their own agendas pretty much for ever. Almost all the various crises that are regularly complained about on here, on 4BR or in the pub after band can be traced back to this failure to take any control of (or interest in) anything beyond our own band's next contest.
  9. IanHeard

    IanHeard Member

    I may have missed something but I did`nt think this exercise was ever about a body taking over or organising an alternative to Kapitol`s National, unless you know different of course?
    If I have read it correctly, Kapitol and the collection of dullards on their regional committees had the opportunity to give banding (outside of Scotland of course) a huge boost by making it a condition of entry that every band be a member of a National organising body, the fact that they could not see further than their remit to "organise a regional contest" is pathetic and deeply depressing.
  10. marc71178

    marc71178 Member

    I know that our regional committee asked their component associations for feedback on these proposals because we provided our feedback to them and from what that 4br report says, this feedback was listened to. Since our association has been 'elected' by member bands that would suggest to me that that our association is deemed to be speaking on behalf of our member bands and so our region is similarly speaking for them.

    The problem comes from there being too many talkers and not enough people who are prepared to put their own time in in my opinion and if the age group of those who do put their time in in my association is anything to go by then it won't be long before these start to close down as well (if they haven't already)
  11. Anglo Music Press

    Anglo Music Press Active Member

    Nor I, but I can't see the point in moaning about Kapitol (who can't, of course, afford to lose money running the Nationals) without supporting a viable alternative, which has to start with a national body funded by member bands.
  12. fatcontroler

    fatcontroler Member

    Is this any different to other organisations?

    Football clubs have to be FA member clubs to compete in English football competitions, and this includes clubs outside of England, Swansea ETC.
  13. IanHeard

    IanHeard Member

    The proverbial 'Catch 22' as far I `m concerned Philip, as long as we have privateers controlling the only event that unites us as a movement, any "viable alternative" is doomed to failure ad infinitum, imo.
    Kapitol and their fully paid up lackeys on the regional commitees, on this occasion needed to think out of the box, they were incapable of that it would seem. Let`s not forget also that it perhaps would not be in Kapitol`s interests to have 500/600 bands as members of a single national body, much better for them to deal with a fractured disorganised rabble as is the case now.
  14. davethehorny

    davethehorny Member

    As a former 'regional dullard' I take great offence that having given up countless days to attend meetings and organise regional contests for very little thanks you want to take a pop at regional committees in general.

    Not all the people who organise contests are over the age of 70 and not all have some personal financial interest at heart.

    Please remember that everyone who ORGANISES the area contests do so voluntarily and only Kapitol make any money from the process.

    Without these volunteers we wouldn't have area or association contests.
  15. GJacko

    GJacko Member

    I don't believe there is any relationship between the Associations and the Local Regional Committee. I certainly don't think there is here in the Midlands. There are people who serve on both and so there are likely common interests.

    The article quotes Kapotol and Butlins as not having bands belonging to 'other' National organisations. They do request National Brass Band Registry cards though (or at least they did the last time we played - both contests in 2011). So I think they probably do!

    Until the organisation is properly and professionally funded, it is unlikely that bands will do anything other than get on with their own business. It's a shame, but probably true.
  16. IanHeard

    IanHeard Member

    I`m getting to the point where I `m past caring tbh, if you and others who put themselves forward as banding administrators can`t see further than organising a poxy contest for a pair of business people then fair enough, but allow others to have slightly higher aspirations for our hobby please.
    It would appear that Kapitol and/or the Regional commitees with no real or obvious detriment to themselves had the opportunity to give a kick start to a National body that some of us crave, for whatever reason they refused.
  17. Thirteen Ball

    Thirteen Ball Active Member

    And here we have the perennial problem with UK banding.

    Change is necessary. We're all agreed on that. But the only people who have the power to put that change in place are Kapitol. And one only needs to look back a few posts to see how certain within our number view them. Wake up folks. Banding needs Kapitol more than Kapitol needs banding. And as others have already said, if you want another organisation, a democratic organisation, then you better be prepared to pay for it.

    Universal affiliation to a countrywide body (whether that body is UK wide, or whether we have an English body, a Welsh body etc) is the only way proper consultation and reform of practice can take place.

    The only way to ensure universal affiliation is to make it compulsory in order to compete. As someone rightly said earlier. If you want to kick a ball in the English football league, you join the FA. Likewise if you want to race motorcycles, in british/world championship events, you join the FIM. Whoever runs the contest sets the rules.

    It's dissapointing Kapitol have chosen not to go down the route of compulsory affiliation - however if they didn't believe that the organisations were in a shape where there would be any benefit to bands and to the competitions in question if compulsory affilitaion were implemented, then it is certainly the right call.

    Though I stand by what I've said before. In the short term, we do need a dictatorship to move things more toward the Scottish model, or better yet, the Scandinavian model whether bands like it or not, because things simply cannot be allowed stagger along in the way they are if we want banding to survive.

    Hopefully this is the first step on the way to more comprehensive reform though.
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2011
  18. James Yelland

    James Yelland Active Member

    Indeed they do - each of the two directors of Kapitol received about £24,300 in 2010 for their efforts. By comparison, the national average wage, depending on how you measure it, is somewhere between £22,400 and £23,900. For a company director, with all the responsibilities that entails, to be doing what he/she does for barely more than the national average wage suggests to me that they are probably doing it more for love than for money. It isn't exactly 'filthy lucre', is it?
  19. Pav

    Pav Member

    Fair enough but not that meaningful without knowing the level of commitment involved.

    £24k for a full time job not great, £24k for 5 days work is nice work if you can get it.

    Also, they are Directors of various other associated companies. I assume they also receive monies from at least some of them.
  20. DannyCollin

    DannyCollin Member

    Its not bad when you can extort it from so called ''amateur'' organisations whilst conning people to VOLUNTEER to organise a major contest for you, is it?

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