UK troops taken by Iran... something doesn't add up to me....?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Chat' started by TheMusicMan, Mar 25, 2007.

  1. TheMusicMan

    TheMusicMan tMP Founder Staff Member

    What's your opinion on this recent issue folks? I am unsure about what to make of it all to be honest as the way I see it, there are several key matters that simply don't add up.

    Iran says that the UK boats were in Iranian waters, yet the UK says the boats were in Iraqi (UK/US alliance controlled) waters. Now then, here's what I don't get...

    If the UK boats were in Iranian waters, then why were they in Iranian waters...? If they were, then they shouldn't have been and it's no wonder the situation has ensued.

    However, if the boats were in Iraqi waters (as Blair insists), then how and why on earth did the vast UK/US fleet of warships on patrol in that area allow several small UK boats to be surrounded and taken over by several highly armed Iranian gun boats - all of this happening in UK/US controlled waters :eek: This just does not make sense.

    Did the UK/US fleet not know there were several Iranian gun boats crossing the Iran/Iraq water mark and heading directly towards the small UK boats? You'd have thought they would know eh?

    Excuse the pun, but something smells fishy.

    Ask yourself this... Why would Iran lie about this...? then ask yourself why would US/UK lie about this...?:confused:
  2. FlugelD

    FlugelD Member

    Only thing I can think of is that Iran and (basically) the rest of the world don't agree where the border is, so the British boats could have been in what they considered to be Iraqi or international waters, while the Iranians consider it to be their territory...

    But I'd agree, there's more to this than meets the eye - nuclear sanctions, for example.
  3. euphojim

    euphojim Member

    I agree - it is inconceivable with all the monitoring equipment at the navy's disposal that they did not know the Iranians were approaching. And that then begs the question, why didn't they do something about it. Much as I support our lads in the Gulf, I suspect they were pushing the boundaries.

  4. Rapier

    Rapier Supporting Member

    The stretch of water involved is a river estuary that both sides claim as theirs. The dinghies are used for speed of access to suspected vessels. The Iranian gunboats are also very fast and could approach our boats, while they were searching the suspect vessel, before the Cornwall could either launch the Helo or get close enough to threaten the Iranians. As the Royal Marines and sailors only had small arms they could not resist their capture. Shame the days of Gunboat diplomacy are long gone, I'd much rather we sent some serious firepower to the area to persuade the swift return of our girl and boys, than to leave it to the gutless politicians we have in charge.
  5. Hells Bones

    Hells Bones Active Member

    With a Brother in the armed forces, I think that we should just say give us back our soldiers or we will kick your a**. Iran would have no chance if Britian declared war on them
  6. Bungle

    Bungle Member

    The Iranian gunboats would probably have been too small to be picked up on radar, or the Iranians would know if they were out of radar range. Although the US have small shipborne remote control surveying aircraft/helicopters, I am not sure the UK navy has.

    It probably was a trap and the British soldiers were taken in retaliation for the five Iranians officials arrested by the US in northern Iraq. Do you think the US will be giving these five up quickly?
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2007
  7. BigHorn

    BigHorn Active Member

    Both nations are sophisticated enough to use GPS so one nation is obviously lying. I can't believe in this charged theatre of war that it is a simple mistake of navigation.

    The fact that it is a limited number of british personell captured seems to suggest that they were a patrol or small boat working away from the main naval force.
    If they were easily taken by the Iranians without a shot being fired then that suggests the Iranians had a big boat with big fire power.

    If we presume that each side knew where they were then it is more likely that the bigger ship was in their own territorial waters. A big ship is easier to pick up on radar and is not as nimble so would not take the risk of being in the wrong place. A small vessel however would be used if a cross border incursion was in progress.
    So despite the Iranian's track record, I would not be surprised if the British were guilty on this issue and were caught in Iranian waters.
    I do expect though that after a week or so they will be handed over unharmed.
  8. DaveR

    DaveR Active Member

    Either that or it is a deliberate ploy to give Messers Bush and Blair an excuse to invade!
  9. johnmartin

    johnmartin Active Member

    Ha Ha.

    Whilst I agree with your sentiments I very much doubt if the UK armed forces could mount a conceivable threat to Iran. Please don't mention trident. It's usefullness as a weapon system is minimal.

    I would like to think we could just send the SAS into Bandar Abbas to do a bit of damage and get our boys (and lady) back, but the Iranians will be smart to that idea and probably have them split up over several locations.

    Our boats were definetely in Iraqi waters. This is not the Shaat-Al-Arab waterway where the last incident took place and over which there are genuine disputes over where the border is. From what I understand the ops area was quite shallow and that's why Cornwall couldn't get close in. As for the Americans, they devolve coastal ops to the Royal Navy whilst their assets stand off further out in the Gulf where they are virtually untouchable as no country in the region has a credible naval force.
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2007
  10. TheMusicMan

    TheMusicMan tMP Founder Staff Member

    Excellent stuff here folks, great posts... the last few here have prompted exactly the conversation I intended when I made my initial thread.

    I am not a conspiracy theorist, I am not out to offend any one, I am merely offering an opinion that differs from what we are force fed by the media, politicians (inc. our soon to be ex PM), the government and officialdom. These people do lie.

    I don't wish to patronise or teach granny here, but don't always believe what you see on TV, read in the press or hear from Prime Ministers - always use your own judgement to form your own opinion.
  11. Hells Bones

    Hells Bones Active Member

    That I would like to see, even the Yanks are scared of the SAS.

    Trident is a waste of time, what is the point in having a bunch of nuclear weopons set to fire when we are attacked? We will be dead anyway.

    What we need is a British John Rambo, send him in, leave him to it and wait for him to come home, job's a good'un. While we are at it, send him to North Korea as well, tell the media he got lost :biggrin:
  12. Hornblower RN

    Hornblower RN Member

    I suspect it's all about rules of engagement:mad: ....pussyfooting about!! Forty years ago when we had a navy to shout about the Iranian gun boats probably would have been blasted out of the water. To think Britain used to train the Iranian Navy:oops: Let's pray that the captured Royal Marines and matelots get back safely:tup
  13. andywooler

    andywooler Supporting Member

    I think the SBS would want that job rather than the SAS. (SBS being Marines rather than Army).
  14. Rapier

    Rapier Supporting Member

    SBS are Royal Marines, Andy. Every tinpot country has Marines, even the Yanks. ;)
  15. Bungle

    Bungle Member

    Shame there wasn't any US marines about when this happend, they fly AV8-B harrier and F-18 aircraft.

    The UK forces were there to search shipping for arms smuggling. Now if I was smuggling weapons from Iran, who's water would I rather be in for the majority of the time, the Iran controlled, or the US/UK patrolled?

    I still think it was a set-up to lure the UK forces in.
  16. Hornblower RN

    Hornblower RN Member

    So very true....Bootneck Bootneck.....(run like hell)....put me down Royal :clap: :biggrin: Really can't understand the media describing them as British Marines or British Royal Marines.....they are simply Royal Marines. Likewise the Royal Navy is not the British Navy's the Royal Navy...end of story. End of rant! :D
  17. andywooler

    andywooler Supporting Member

    Sure they do - but the real ones are British & Royal.
    On a more serious note, my nephew is SBS so we are all hoping that this current mess doesn't drag him in anytime soon - especially as he is getting married in May.
  18. Rapier

    Rapier Supporting Member

    Well mucho kudos to him then. (they're actually better than the SAS, but don't tell them I said so. ;) )
  19. smiler_38

    smiler_38 Member

    Maybe the GPS Units were made in china??
  20. andywooler

    andywooler Supporting Member

    I actually enjoy mentioning that both myself and his father are ex Para which normally hits the spot!

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