Tuning Triggers

Discussion in 'The Rehearsal Room' started by GeordieSop, Sep 28, 2009.

  1. GJG

    GJG Well-Known Member

    I only said it happens sometimes ... ;)
     
  2. All this talk of practise .... I should go do some instead of reading here! Time to push a trigger!
     
  3. brassbandmaestro

    brassbandmaestro Active Member

    What, the horse called Trigger!!!:biggrin:
     
  4. kurme82

    kurme82 New Member

    I have an idea about the triggers. How about only having one trigger on the cornet. This would be connected with the main tuning slide. But instead of having the trigger for that on the place where normaly sits the trigger for the 1. Valve, it is located there where you have the trigger for the 3. Valve.
    For me it makes no sense to have a trigger for the 3. Valve and one on the main tuning slide.
    And for me personaly using the trigger in front (location of 3. Valve trigger) it's more cofortable as the one where the 1. Valve trigger is.

    What do you thing about it?
     
  5. MoominDave

    MoominDave Well-Known Member

    The argument for having one on the 3rd tuning slide is that if you have a passage that goes say C#-C-C#, you don't have to adjust the trigger for the middle note.
     
  6. kurme82

    kurme82 New Member

    @MoominDave
    Ok, but as long as it is not a fast passage, it could be done not triggering the C. But if you take that argument aside, then the idea could make sense?
    If it's possible to build (from a construction side) is the other question. Because the movement would be reverse. Meaning if I pull the trigger, the main slide has to go longer, meaning tuning lower. That's the opposite movement then the one on the 3. Valve (on a horizontal perspective)
     
  7. MoominDave

    MoominDave Well-Known Member

    I have a main slide trigger on my bass trumpet, and it works well, bringing an instrument with some extremely wayward tuning issues into true. Anything's buildable. Why not have both a 3rd valve and a main slide trigger? Best of both worlds. The 1st valve one I feel could be dispensed with.
     
  8. Tom-King

    Tom-King Well-Known Member

    It's been done before (main slide trigger where third valve trigger normally would be) - I believe it's the Olds recording or super recording that had it as an option.

    Dave's basically right though...
    The only time you would ever need a trigger on main is if an open note is sharp - on a properly designed instrument no no open notes are significantly enough out of tune to warrant putting a trigger on it.
    The multiple valve combinations are inherently sharp (they have to be... Unless you wanted single valve notes out of tune instead) so triggers are put on to allow some correction where necessary.
     
  9. kurme82

    kurme82 New Member

    @Tom-King
    Ah, so basically it should be possible.
    As I mentioned, the idea for me is, to only "deal" with one trigger, instead of 2. Plus the way I hold my cornet for me it's very uncomfortable to use the trigger on the first valve, therefore the thought placing it where the trigger for the 3. valve is.
    I have some notes which I could use the main valve: g'', f'', h' , a'', h'', f' sharp, d'''.
    And yes, I could use for f'' valve 1 and 3 or for a'' valve 3 and so on, correct the tone with my lips, triggering and/or combine all those. But it's not really satisfying/handy.
     
  10. MoominDave

    MoominDave Well-Known Member

    Tom, I think there's some more to it than that:
    1) A main slide trigger lets you tune any note regardless of fingering, not just the open ones.
    2) You can get triggers that go both ways - flat and sharp.
    3) It's not uncommon for even well-respected instrument designs to have notes (even open notes) that benefit from fine tuning. High G on Sovereign euphs is notoriously sharp, for example - and not many brand models manage to totally solve that particular problem. There are plenty of models that are the result of much R&D that don't match tuning exactly.
    4) But then - what is exact? If you're playing properly in tune, not every C will be the same. Is it a major 3rd in the chord? Then it needs to be flat. Is it a minor 3rd? Then it needs to be sharp, and the difference between the two is a very audible 27 cents. In banding we tend to accept careless tuning as a matter of course (sometimes very careless tuning!), but a performance of professional quality aspires to do better.
     
    TrumpetNick likes this.
  11. MoominDave

    MoominDave Well-Known Member

    Just read the whole earlier thread... That was a weird experience! From one of TMP's busier but less happy phases.
     
  12. TrumpetNick

    TrumpetNick Member

    Just to add to the mix...It can be used as a 1/4 tone trigger, as well when a fast instrument temperature changes occurs due to taking an instrument outside (marching?)
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2017
  13. Fettler

    Fettler New Member

    Wouldn't all the other instruments you are trying to be playing in tune with be outside too? I find it hard to envisage a situation where you would be playing outside while everyone else is inside unless you have been asked to leave.
     
  14. TrumpetNick

    TrumpetNick Member

    A brass/wind band is not the only possible context for a cornet. Even if it is, if required to play 1/4 tone, and you play it correctly, it is rather unlikely to be "off", or the composer would be the one, that should be required to leave the room....

    As far as outside playing is concerned, different instrument may react in a different way to sudden change of temperature. The general tendency may be more or less the same, but some note may be more "off" than others, which will be hardly the same in all cornets from the row...even more, we as humans beings adapt in a different manner to sudden changes.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2017
  15. Fettler

    Fettler New Member

    Absolute poppycock. A brave attempt though. Your trigger for flattening the pitch will only be useful in this way if the temperature suddenly rises and by some freak occurrence the other instruments remain unaffected. Granted strings might go flat, and if you regularly do marching band jobs for cornet and string Orchestra fair enough. It's very unlikely that the laws of physics would choose only a couple of notes on your cornet to be affected even under such unusual circumstances, so perhaps an old fashioned movement of the main tuning slide would suffice?
     
  16. TrumpetNick

    TrumpetNick Member

    I played my cornet with guitar accompaniment outside and found it very useful. Sometimes I wish I had such device on my trumpet as well, especially when not playing it for more than 5-10 min (while playing some Latin percussion instead) and pick it up (it should be able to move both directions though in order to be useful).As for brassbands, I haven't played in any for more than 10 years, long before I got that main slide trigger cornet.
     
  17. Fettler

    Fettler New Member

    Lol. You've just made all of that up haven't you? Good effort though, and it makes me smile thinking of your cornet/guitar duo with your array of Latin percussion instruments and sharpening two-way trigger.
     
  18. TrumpetNick

    TrumpetNick Member

    That's actually exists, but it is far away from brass band movement.

    BTW, the bidirectional trigger does exist. I have a friend in Norway who builds them.
     
  19. MoominDave

    MoominDave Well-Known Member

    The trigger on my bass trumpet main slide goes both ways. Though it's more of a push-pull thing - no lever. Built by Bryce Ferguson in Edinburgh. No reason one couldn't attach a lever to it though.

    Nick lives in Bulgaria. It would be unwise to assume that his playing needs bear any resemblance to what one expects to find on a brass band discussion site.
     
  20. TrumpetNick

    TrumpetNick Member

    I actually shuttle between Turkey and Bulgaria, but last I played in a Brass Band somewhere between 2004-2005. Moomindave got it right. But I got a sovereign with modified leadpipe and spring trigger connected to the leadpipe (Just push, not bidirectional). My friend from Norway made those bidirectional trigger for 1st valve slide on trumpet, but I do find them intriguing, not necessarily to use in a brass band. Since I bought it, I used the cornet whenever the projection of the trumpet is just too much, or when space is a bit of a problem. Sometimes raising some notes would be an advantage, but it is not an absolutely a necessity.

    Actually some 5 years ago, when I was still working in a local symphony orchestra it happened to me to play with strings outside with no roof, under direct sunlight. In one moment, the cellos were so flat, that pulling out so much made the trumpet out of tune (though I have a tunable bell trumpet). You can easily get a work involving cornets in a symphony orchestra, and be asked to play it outside if you work in Eastern Europe. Then every little help can be useful, believe me.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2017

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