Trill help

Discussion in 'The Rehearsal Room' started by Crazysop, Feb 22, 2004.

  1. Crazysop

    Crazysop Member

    I Need some advice about a trill i'm really struggling with for the areas! Its an e (top space) to f# trill. Unfortunately my trill seems to hit every note but f#, sounding like flight of the bumble bee. I can trill for England on any other notes. I've tried various suggestions like moving my fingers quicker but still can't seem to keep the trill steady on e and f# Any suggestions would be very helpful.
     
  2. Keppler

    Keppler Moderator Staff Member

    Have always found that particular trill tricky. Normally I find I have to push the air through the upper note when trilling, but with E-F#, I find that using fingers 12 - 2 and pushing the air through the lower note helps me more. Basically, instead of playing a tone trill on E, I end up playing a downward trill on F#.

    Not sure how much help that is... would be interested in hearing other opinions..
     
  3. Crazysop

    Crazysop Member

    Thanx I'll try that! It's doing my head in somewhat and only a few weeks to go to get it right :shock: :!:
     
  4. jameshowell

    jameshowell Active Member

    That sounds about right. Or at least it's the same as I do, and was going to suggest :lol:
     
  5. Aidan

    Aidan Active Member

    agreed kepps.. as the e - f# crosses quite a wide harmonic, the lower note must be the one you focus the air column through to sustain the trill on the right notes. Just think of playing a consistent sharp (slightly lipped up) E when you are trilling, which should leave a clean transition
     
  6. Kari Anson

    Kari Anson Member

    We've had a similar debate for our test piece. The natural tendancy is to go down to a D#. If you can get the pitch in your head it really is achievable. OR you could try some alternative fingering. Play the E on 1 and 2 and then trill to the F# on 2, or play the E on 1&2 and the F# on all three. You'll figure it out - I have to do this too and my middle finger is strongest so I play it as standard but have to work hard to trill up to the F# and not down to the D#.

    Good luck with it.
     
  7. Pete_The_Sop

    Pete_The_Sop Member

    i take it this is for vizcaya? 3rd section peice?

    i've noticed this as well, thanks for the advice on using different fingering


    Pete
     
  8. Dave Payn

    Dave Payn Active Member

    From my own personal experience (and, I should add, this is no way 'expert advice') the 1+2 to 2 is the most effective method but with all trills, I find that if you don't try to play the trill too fast (I'm not suggesting you have done!) then it should work out OK. I have found that a number of players treat a trill as a valve pressing speed contest with the result that BOTH notes of the trill are unclear. I think Nadia's advice regarding the airflow is also worth following.

    Another interesting trill, certainly for Bb cornets, is the one from top G to top A. I have found that, on a cornet anyway, the most effective method of hitting both notes (as opposed to what usually comes out, i.e. a tremelando on just the G), is a slower trill from open to 1+2. The open to third valve usually (for me anyway) results in the aforementioned tremelando, though I'm sure other players will have a different story to tell!

    Good luck anyway!
     
  9. Keppler

    Keppler Moderator Staff Member

    I usually use the 2nd valve for the G-A, Dave. Have to lip the A up tons though.
     
  10. Dave Payn

    Dave Payn Active Member

    Haven't tried that one (and HOW long have I been playing??) I'll give that one a go. Cheers, Kepps!
     
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  12. cornetchap

    cornetchap Member

    I would have thought E-F# trill would instinctively be easier using 12-2 combination as using that combination you are reducing the tube length which should naturally raise pitch, whereas the open-2 combination increases tube length which would naturally drop pitch (down to the D#). Of course this is all just speaking instinctively and doesn't take account of harmonic spacing, etc.
     
  13. MoominDave

    MoominDave Well-Known Member

    To do G-A properly, you really need to lip trill it on 1+3 or 4 if you have it. Once you can do it, it's much superior to any of the possible bodges.

    E-F# on 12 to 123 is a bit dodgy for several reasons, mostly because you can also play E on 123.

    Dave
     
  14. Straightmute

    Straightmute Active Member

    Don't try to fit in one million notes! Start slower and accelerate (particularly in slow music) but don't allow it to get out of control. Think carefully about how and when you want it to resolve, either into into a turn or onto a single note.

    I have yet to read in any adjudicators remarks: "your trills don't contain enough notes". In general, trills in solo passages should be elegant rather than violent!

    D
     
  15. Dave Payn

    Dave Payn Active Member

    Sound advice (pardon the pun....) it's not just the trill itself that's important to control but thinking about the note thereafter (and a few more besides!). My first trumpet teacher told me that the point of a trill is that one should hear both notes with equal clarity (it is, after all, a decoration); not something that sheer speed of valve pressing can achieve.
     
  16. Kari Anson

    Kari Anson Member

    Oh so that'll be the technical reason why I said it's a natural tendancy to trill down to the D#.

    Have to say everyone - I've learnt some invaluable things in here. Watch out Friday!
     
  17. cornetchap

    cornetchap Member

    Possibly, could also be that I can't trill to save my life :)

    Yes, it's great this forum, lots for everyone!

    Cheers, Greg.
     
  18. squeakypete_frb

    squeakypete_frb New Member

    trilling

    what i was tought as a cheat that you might find useful is to start on the f# and trill down to the e. but just remember dont move the embouchure
     
  19. Crazysop

    Crazysop Member

    Thanx everyone and yes it is the 3rd section area piece viscaya trills I was stuck with!!! I think I've cracked it now using 1+2 to 2. ThanX :D
     
  20. Aidan

    Aidan Active Member

    1+3 to 3 works well too, giving a more defined transition than a lip trill

    123 lip trill is also an option.
     
  21. MoominDave

    MoominDave Well-Known Member

    But, as it's 7th to 8th harmonic, the tuning isn't the best - unless you're simultaneously trilling with your trigger!
     
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