Transposing Euph?

Discussion in 'The Rehearsal Room' started by Seedhouse, Jan 21, 2004.

  1. Seedhouse

    Seedhouse Active Member

    Can anyone provide any help on how to transpose a bass cleff Euph part (in C) into a treble cleff Euph part (in Bb)? Cheers, Alex
  2. Dave Payn

    Dave Payn Active Member

    Depends how long you've got to learn it. My approach to transposition doesn't work overnight but has served me reasonably well over the years (humble apologies if this sounds like boasting! I assure you that is NOT the aim, just passing on what I've been taught and partly worked out for myself!) and that is to treat whatever your transposition as a new set of fingering/slide positions (after all, you've learned one so you have a sort of head start) Rules such as 'up a fourth', 'up a tone' etc. etc. are fine, but when you get to a quick passage of semiquavers, say, by the time you've worked out what the 'up a fourth' is, it's gone (not useful if you have to transpose at sight!)

    I would also recommend this for reading bass clef, seeing as you'll have to learn a lot of notes with leger lines, particularly above the stave - so (for starters) a note on the second line up from the bottom of the stave with a flat in front of it is a concert Bb, (the equivalent to a treble clef bottom C just below the stave for euph) and therefore open fingering etc. etc.. Learn what the notes are, learn the fingering (and useful to learn how it relates to BB treble clef), that would be my humble suggestion.

    For this particular issue (transposing bass clef to treble clef) as I said, it depends how long you have to learn it. If it's a quick fix, personally, I wouldn't recommend attempting it without writing it out (and then you have copyright issues to deal with, see Copyright FAQ forum, so the chances are you'd need to get permission)

    Humble apologies again if I appear big headed, or indeed, to be talking complete ********! Good luck whatever!

    Kind regards
  3. Steve

    Steve Active Member

    Learn it as a new clef, dont transpose it. Should you ever do any dep work where bass clef is involved you can look a bit of an idiot if you stick in a load of 'wrong uns' while working out what up a fourth is at sight. I learnt it as a new clef and it worked for me, unfortunately I learnt a C in the bass clef as a D so I have to add two sharps. I think I am reading Bass cleff but in brass band pitch, it confused me thinking i was playing a C on 1st and 3rd, thats why i did it this way.
  4. GJG

    GJG Well-Known Member

    Dave, that's the second time I've seen you refer to a "copyright forum"; where is it?


  5. stephen2001

    stephen2001 Member

    I have my own way of doing it which works for me fine, but there is no way I can explain it on paper. All I can explain is that I call the notes what they are in Bb (so an F in Bass Clef I would call a G).
    At the end of the day, you will come up with a system that works for you, it's just a case of practising.

    I think where possible in Concert Bands, get both treble and bass clef Euph/Bari parts and play off the treble clef first to learn the piece, then start playing off the Bass Clef part. If you get stuck on a note, then refer back to the treble clef part until you don't need the treble clef part anymore.
    Alternatively, get two lines of manuscript paper and write out two chromatic scales, one line in Bb treble clef and the other in C bass clef and have it on your stand as a crib sheet.

    Hope that makes sense and helps you out Alex ;)

    Good luck :D
  6. Dave Payn

    Dave Payn Active Member

    Should be on the bottom of the Forum index, Gareth. I know there's only a few of us who can post there, but I thought it was for general viewing, or maybe it's going live later! I'm afraid my knowledge of computers/internet websites/how they work/who can see what/ etc. etc. isn't very good!

    (MusicMan help me out here, please!! ;-)
  7. GJG

    GJG Well-Known Member

    Nope; I don't see it.

  8. Dave Payn

    Dave Payn Active Member

    Oops, jumping the gun! Apologies, Gareth (and apolgies mods). I believe this will be visible soon! Apologies for incorrect info.

  9. Seedhouse

    Seedhouse Active Member

    Thing is I can read the notes, as I play the piano, but all the fingering is different which confuses me! :? I was just going to put it into treble so that I could read it properly.
    Is there a bass clef fingering chart anywhere?
  10. Okiedokie of Oz

    Okiedokie of Oz Active Member

    Can you read BC on eupho? Do you automatically assume C is on 4th valve? Then technically you have the right mindframe for Concert TC transposition.

    If you're like me, and believe Concert is for orchestras, pianos and flute geeks :D then perhaps you need to sit down adn work out the theory behind Bb transposing instruments.

    Short cuts work, and lets face it, there's heaps (eg play everything one note higher), but at the end of the day, it won't cover your rump.

    Once you learn what Bb instruments are all about, don't stop....switch to Eb... Then F....

    Yes it isn't easy, but in the end short cuts can cause some more difficulty than ease. Go ahead and llearn a shortcut, but make an effort to learn it properly.

    I myself found the best way was to get a BC and TC part and practise. Admittedly I first started being lazy and just saing "F is G, B flat is C." But once I took up tuba seriously, I was forced to learn the real method. Now I can mentally and by sight transpose with relative ease. Yes I will still goof on the french horn part, but still......close enuff for jazz! :wink:
  11. PeterBale

    PeterBale Moderator Staff Member

    There's one on this link - it's not the easiest to read, as it gives the trombone positions first, followed by the euph/bari fingerings, but at least it will give you an idea:
  12. Rob

    Rob Member

    If you can read piano bass clef then all you need to do is read it as if you were playing it on a piano but stick every note up a tone (e.g. if the note was a C on piano you'd play a D on euph). Takes a little bit of getting used to but after a while it becomes much easier.
  13. Dave Euph

    Dave Euph Member

    Haven't read the replies but it's fairly straight-forward. Put notes up a tone (So F becomes G, etc) and add two sharps to the key signature.
  14. Euph-Bari

    Euph-Bari Active Member

    I've just got a bass cleff tune a day to start of with
  15. Wonky_Baton

    Wonky_Baton Active Member

    I prefer reading it as treble clef down a fifth and found it simple and it becomes automatic to recognise what valves to put down. You need to alter the key signature accordingly but overall no problems. At the end of the day there are only eight main notes which are repeated over a few octaves and then decide if they are sharps or flats according to key. Read a Bass Clef concert F as a treble clef D, go down a fifth and it is a G simple. Learn them eight notes and then practice playing slow hymn tunes on the bass trombone part in your bandroom. Youu will soon know when you hit a wrong un. The more you practice the easier it gets. Join an army band who all play in bass clef and once you can march 160 a minute playing the Light Cavalry euph part down a fifth you are a member of the bass clef club. 8)

    As was stated if you are proficient reading piano bass cleff go up a tone and think of treble clef fingering but it might screw your piano playing up!! :?
  16. JessopSmythe

    JessopSmythe Active Member

    I'm with Steve21 on this one, learn it as a new clef. It may take a bit longer to master, but, once you've done it, you should be able to sight read without any transpostition.
    Our current conductor likes to run through the warm up hymn tune up a tone to keep the band on their toes. In this kind of situation, it really helps to be able to read the correct notes otherwise you'd be transposing twice :?
  17. Dave Payn

    Dave Payn Active Member

    Or if it gets really desperate, (to quote an old muso gag) tranpose it up a tone, down a minor third, then up an augmented fourth, then leave it out altogether! ;-)
  18. Toni2

    Toni2 Member

    Im with Rob and Dave euph on this one - read it as bass clef, up a tone and add two sharps. Strictly speaking though it is easier eventually to learn it as a new clef.
    Good luck though!!!! :wink:
  19. Dave Euph

    Dave Euph Member

    What would you know Toni? You always wrote out your parts! ;)

    Just kidding ... :D

    When I say transposing though, I've got so used to it that it's almost 2nd nature now, basically reading it like any normal key. I *almost* can view the notes as concert pitches now (Basically I'll refer to a C as a C rather than as my D ... :)).

    Of course, if you play Eb bass, transposition to the bass clef suddenly gets a whole lot easier.
  20. Okiedokie of Oz

    Okiedokie of Oz Active Member

    As a teacher, I can be in a class with saxes, trumpets and flutes, and I need to know I can relate something to another instrument in a heartbeat or two. Mental transposition is an important skill.

    I've seen too many clarinettists think they can write it out perfectly every time stuff it up.

    If its a tad harder, then maybe write it out, but at least do it manually, not use a comp!!!

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