Transfer the yorkshire area

Discussion in 'The Adjudicators' Comments' started by Frontman, Mar 9, 2010.

  1. Frontman

    Frontman Member

    I have picked this out of a social networking website which should be a good topic of discussion


    This weekend demonstrated that Bradford St Georges Hall is not suitable for the Yorkshire Area Championship.
    We propose to bring it the the vastly superior venue that is Sheffield City Hall.
    It has better facilities all round.
    The Mercury Newspaper will offer to sponsor and finance the event if agreement could be reached to transfer it to Sheffield City Hall.
    We would also pay for, and host, rehearsal facilities and we would make a warm up room available.
    We will also offer to arrange discount vouchers for refreshments in local hotels and restaurants.
    We would also promote and host a Gala concert.

  2. Bass Trumpet

    Bass Trumpet Active Member

    Apart from parking!
  3. backrow

    backrow New Member

    Sponsorship! Finance! never mind the yorkshire area do they want the North West, Blackpol is miserable in March and it will be even worse next year
  4. Thirteen Ball

    Thirteen Ball Active Member

    An interesting proposition indeed.

    Let us ask some pertinent questions of this proposition.

    In what way is is St George's hall an inadequate venue?

    OK, the lack of a warm-up room isn't ideal, but I'm sure other areas have this.

    The dressing rooms might be basic, but are each large enough to accommodate a band in reasonable comfort.

    I've never once seen the place full, whoever was playing, so the seating is clearly adequate.

    (Unlike the Albert hall) It isn't way too big for a band sound to fill.

    There are plenty of eateries and pubs within easy walking distance, as well as two car-parks, one of which is free on the sunday.

    So the obvious next question to ask would be:
    In what way is sheffield city hall a better venue

    Can someone help out with comparison to St Georges? I don't personally know the Sheffield venue myself.

    One immediate problem with moving the yorkshire area is that Bradford is reasonably central to the region - whereas Sheffield is Demonstrably not. (It's pretty close to the border between yorkshire and midlands I believe.)

    We've seen the problems that Welsh bands have with their regional contest, where getting there and competing in one day is simply not practicable. Though yorkshire is, of course, much smaller than that, I doubt it's very fair on bands like Harrogate and Wetherby to move the venue nearly 50 miles south as it would make the whole day a logistical nightmare for them. I'd reckon (though I haven't done any firm research) that you'd wind up with far more bands doing far more miles to get there than you currently do.

    What I'd suggest mainly motivate this article is the late finish of the championship section on sunday night, to which a number of factors contributed:

    The choice of an 18-minute test-piece

    The late start of the section (billed as 5:30, but the Geoff Whitham tribute by Elland Youth didn't start til 5:50)

    The fact it was a 13-band section this year.

    Based on that, it appears the organisation of the event is the subject of the criticism - not the venue itself.

    Would moving the venue have made the Championship section finish any earlier? I can't see how. So the problem remains - and moving the venue appears a fruitless excercise.

    As columbo would say, just one more thing.

    We propose....

    Who proposes?
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2010
  5. tkhbss

    tkhbss Member

    Err, think it would have to be the Yorkshire Area as Sheffield is in Yorkshire you know;)

    Seriously, wonder if the Area Committee have been approached about this? I am sure it could not happen next year as the place is booked, but in future years ....
  6. bassmittens

    bassmittens Member

    I think one key factor could be that there is the facility to run 2 sections alongside each other in one venue, thus hegating any possibility of such a late finish, and possibly a more relaxed approach to the whole day/days which could help bands to play to their best. This could also allow the event to take place on one day (- possible cost saving?!)

    I believe this has already been sent to the Yorkshire comittee (according to the social networking site in question). Peggy's post contest speech did mention the importance for sponsers for the event and how lucky they were this year to have extra help towards the event, and to have a willing sponsor come forward offering to contribute towards the event can be no bad thing. Perhaps if nothing else, such a suggestion to the committee may help improve the current contest, either through the desire to find additional revenues of financial support towards the running rather than Kapitol and York. May even help raise the prize money a little - something that is usually a hottly discussed topic following the areas - and if so no harm done.

    I think it is harmless to debate such a suggestion on a public forum (although one would argue being a Sheffield based band i am bound to be biased on this), although perhaps there are other venues in Yorkshire that logistically would suit more bands.
  7. tubafran

    tubafran Active Member

    Aren't Harrogate one of those Yorkshire Bands that has to go to Darlington to compete in the areas?

    And regardless of where ever the contest is held some ones got further to travel than those bands nearer the venue.

    There is a fair cluster of bands in the South Yorkshire vicinity as well as the clusters around Bradford and Huddersfield - no further from Bradford to Sheffield than the South Yorkshire Bands currently travel to get to St Georges.

    Interesting offer for additional sponsorship and Im sure that Peggy and her team will have a serious look into it.

    The centre of Sheffield is considerably more thriving around the City Hall than the area surrounding St Georges - sat outside Subway Saturday afternoon and it was a veritable dessert both in numbers of people around (apart from banders) and shops, pubs etc.
  8. tubafran

    tubafran Active Member

    From the link on the Facebook page

    Andrew Platts, Bass Trombonist with Stannington Band and Editor of the Mercury Newspaper, is one of many people unhappy with facilities at St. George’s Hall in Bradford – current home to the Yorkshire Brass Band Championship contest.

    It is true that St. George’s Hall is a reasonably ok acoustic to play in. But its cramped conditions for players backstage and a distinct lack of other facilities – such as no bar or food catering provision – make it an unattractive proposition for bandpersons having to spend any length of time there. Add that public transport provision to the city is not very good, only making matters worse.
    But Sheffield City Hall boasts fantastic facilities both within the building and across the nearby city-centre. It also has a history of of hosting major brass contests in the past, such as the mineworkers’ CISWO finals.
  9. HBB

    HBB Active Member

    Subway was shut by about 4pm on the Sunday anyway!!
  10. Anno Draconis

    Anno Draconis Well-Known Member

    I would have thought it's worth considering for the rehearsal facilities, warm up room and sponsorship potential. It's not particularly a better venue, though - about on a par with St George's I would have thought, and as Andi says^^ the city is certainly less convenient for many Yorkshire bands. I can't imagine a Gala Concert working, for a variety of reasons.
  11. backrow

    backrow New Member

    I know Sheffield is in Yorkshire - that was the whole point of what was clearly a wasted attempt at a funny!!!
  12. MrB

    MrB New Member

    From what I remember of City hall from my days there at uni.
    It is not that superior to St George's really.
    Yes it's just (well, about 5 year ago) gone through a refurbishment, but even then you wouldn't be able to have a rehersal room in the venue as the sound profing wouldn't be strong enough to isolate a couple of brass bands playing under the audience (like St Georges), also you still wouldn't be able to host concurrent sections in the same venue as the second hall is quite small , a concaved room with 500 cap? certainly more for conferences/talks than a formal concert / contest.
    Anyway, one of the really good things about the way yorkshire's run is that both listeners and bandsmen don't have to choose between sections, and can listen to their peers easiy. which they couldn't if they were run concurrently.

    Regarding central location, (as can be seen on the regionals contest webpage band finder) Between Wakefield and Barnsley would be the most central, with Sheffield being at the most southern point like Bradford is close to the most Northely. Although it proberbly could be plotted to find the best place with least disruption to the most people.

    Call me bias'd or whatever but St Georges has been used for ages and is run tightly.
    I have to agree with 13ball, 13 band in top section and a long test piece, and a tribute. just be thankful that it only over ran by 34 minutes over the course of the day and three sections.

    Those of you who been around the contesting for a while must remember the years when the presentations didn't even START until after midnight, but as they say... it all add to the experience and that brass banders are slightly, if not totally, mad.
  13. Thirteen Ball

    Thirteen Ball Active Member

    I've no particular fondness for or bias against St George's hall as a venue. If a better venue is available, and sponsorship makes it a viable consideration, then fair enough. Let's have the possibility properly investigated and go with the solution that does the most good for the most bands. The yorkshire comittee are in the best situation to do that.

    If the chap's a member of Stannington, I can appreciate a 1am return from an area is not necessarily conducive to a good opinion of the venue. When I played in the top section a couple of years back it was gone midnight by the time I got home and I only lived in Leeds at the time! I can also appreciate the idea of having the contest in your own backyard for a few years is a much more attractive prospect and an hour's coach journey.

    I'd still say that it makes sense to keep the contest reasonably central to the area it represents though. Yes there are clusters of bands in south yorkshire in the old pit country around barnsley, doncaster etc. But the majority of them would be also heading south if the contest was held in Sheffield - so however good the venue is one has to question if it really is the best location.
  14. John_D

    John_D Member

    So is York, but the York bands are in the Northern area and not Yorkshire ........................ no idea why?
  15. AndyG

    AndyG Member

    As the main focus of this thread seems to be that the Yorkshire area finished very late on Sunday due to the large number of bands (I won't say too many!) competing. Having most of North Yorkshire playing in the Northern area evens the numbers up a bit, otherwise some sections would probably have 20 bands in the Yorkshire area and 7 in the Northern.
  16. Steve

    Steve Active Member

    Move it to Huddersfield

    Town Hall and St Pauls / Uni Recital Hall / Lawrence Batley Theatre !
    Central to town, 2 mins walk between all venues !
    Good acoustics (playing and listening) !
    Warm up facilities available !
    Both suitable sizes to accommodate but not appear over empty !
    Space for trade stands where people can actually TRY instruments (more will pay to come)
    Central to the region, and easily accessible from the M62 by coach !
    100s of parking spaces within 1 mile !
    Good public transport links from across Yorkshire and Humberside, and further afield !
    Excellent variety of eateries, (large) bars and hotels within 5 minutes at a variety of budgets !

    Also, I must say that there is more chance of getting locals to attend a publicised event in Huddersfield than Bradford purely because of the demographic of the population and the number of brass band events that sell out here throughout the year !

    Only downside would be parking for busses, but that could easily be rectified by prior agreement with the local council.

    Next ..................


    I had the same thought and conversation with someone yesterday about this. With all these venues within 5 mins walk of each other, there is absolutely no reason why all the sections couldn't be held on the Saturday or Sunday. My proposal would be 4th Section at St Pauls Hall, 3rd/2nd sections at the Lawrence Batley Theatre and 1st/Championship sections held at the Town Hall.

    I hate St Georges Hall, mainly for the fact that there are no warm up facilties. You have to stand outside in the freezing cold (and most years, pouring rain!) before they'll even let you in to get changed. I disagree with the earlier post about the rooms being big enough to accomodate bands that are waiting - instrument cases and suit carriers all take up room, not counting the bodies that actually carry them. :(

    Bring the areas to Huddersfield I say!!! :)
  18. Pav

    Pav Member

    Had the same thought as well. Didn't they use Hudds Town Hall in the early 90s? It was a year I didn't play but it rings a distant bell. Anyone?
  19. Elliebone

    Elliebone Member

    I played at Huddersfield but I think it was in the 70s! Too long ago to be certain!!

    Speaking as a member of (probably) the most Northerly band in the Midlands area, whilst I am a great supporter of the Sheffield City Hall as a venue, it would be gutting to have to travel to Bedworth when the Yorkshire area was only 6miles up the road!
  20. a very flat b

    a very flat b Member

    Warm up room, dressing rooms, DRESSING ROOMS! Try the Dolphin Centre - all the bands use a hall next to the main hall to 'dress' there is no privacy what so ever. And warm up - you can't even ****** talk without being told to shut up in case they can hear you next door.
    Oh and talking of next door, the contest is in the sports hall. so you get the acoustics of a 5 a side pitch.

    We'd love to use St.Georges hall!

    (not getting at you Andi).
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2010

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