Timing of promotion / relegation

Discussion in 'The Rehearsal Room' started by Steve, Jul 31, 2005.

  1. Steve

    Steve Active Member

    I understand that bands gaining promotion are officially promoted as of 1st January the following year.

    For bands going up on area averages this is not a problem but.................

    Bands ganing promotion from the National Finals do not know until September and then compete from then until 31st Dec in the same section they competed in that year.

    Now for my real point....Butlins. Is this possibly the worst timed contest in the callender as any band promoted in September will have to cause either a rearrangement of the lineups of risk the wrath of band in the section they are promoted from by playing in the section they entered for initially. Should promotion be from the day of your next area contest or should contests be banned from 1st January to the area contest? Would this work as the regionals are at different times?

    I dont think this applies to relegations as there are no relegations outside of the area contest averages (decided in March / April)

    Thoughts please.

    ps. I have no idea if the organisers of the mineworkers have already made provisions for such an event so its not an attack on them!!!!!
  2. DublinBass

    DublinBass Supporting Member

    I think it would just make sense that there are two promotion time periods.

    1) If you get promoted from the Areas (except for Nationals) you begin promotion August 1st.

    2) If you get promoted from Nationals, you begin your new section Feb 15th.
  3. Fergus

    Fergus Member

    Well, in Scotland all promotions and relegations take place on 1st Novemeber each year !!!
  4. Steve

    Steve Active Member

    Does this not compound matters? Are promoted Scottish bands officially recognised as promoted if they enter an English contest after 1st November?
  5. Di

    Di Active Member

    Wouldn't it make sense to have a promotion with almost immediate effect?? If you've just earned yourself promotion, why should you wait another 9 months to compete at the next level? Staying in the section means you have to compete the for the rest of the year against bands who are, on paper now, a section below you.

    My immediate thoughts, if I think about it long enough, I may come up with something different. ;)
  6. Cornishwomble

    Cornishwomble Active Member

    Because the band might have entered for contests in the section they were in before the areas. For example if you applied for Pontins in the 4th section, got promoted after the areas and found there were no spaces for the 3rd section at Pontins you might feel aggrieved, especially if you have pre-booked coaches etc.
  7. Di

    Di Active Member

    True. We're talking hyperthetically here of course, because we can't change the rules of banding but ....

    If major contests, such as Pontins didn't open to Applications until after the area, then that wouldn't be a problem. Again, thinking of the top of my head. ;)
  8. johnmartin

    johnmartin Active Member

    This hasn't caused any problems in the past. I remember one year when we were promoted and at the following CISWO contest we were simply asked which section we would be competing in. I believe that the Scottish promotion/relegations are timed to be after the RAH nationals.
  9. Charmed

    Charmed Active Member

    When is a good time for bands to officially move sections? There has to be a cut off date sometime! But whenever it is it is likely to cause complications(?) bad feelings(?)

    My band was in the 2nd section 2003, promoted to 1st section 2004. Won 1st section 2004, promoted to Championship Section for 2005. However, after a successful appeal, which many may have disagreed with, (but was made with good intentions for the the survival of the band - also the promotion was based on points total of which 2 years worth were average points given) the band remained in the 1st section for 2005. Nobody commented on our 5th position at the Nationals or 6th position at Pontyns 2004, but comments soon flew in about our 1st place at Butlins 2005 in the first section, and again our successive win at the area this year. We will be playing at Pontins this year in the 1st section, what's the bet that our placing will be commented upon? If we don't come in the prizes, possibly no comment other than "Hatfield will possibly struggle in the Championship Section next year", but if we do well (hopefully!) "Hatfield should not have been playing in the First Section, it is unfair on 1st section bands!"

    Simply, we can't win either way (no pun intended)

    Yet this position we are in is simply down to the way the rules are made.

    Don't condemn Hatfield Band or others in the same situation!
  10. WoodenFlugel

    WoodenFlugel Moderator Staff Member

    The problem is that the promotions have to be done at some time or other. Whenever you pick during the year the chances are the promotion date will fall after the entry date of a particular contest somewhere. I know Butlins is gearing up to be a nationally supported contest but the point stands.

    To be honest Steve I wonder if leaving it for nearly 10 months is a good idea though. A lot can happen to a band in that time. If a band are deserving of the next section in March, why should they wait before they can compete "officially" in their new section? More importantly these days, if a band is struggling in their section, and are due to be relegated, why prolong the pain? I can only see that it will increase the chances of that particular band shedding players, due to poor contest performances - if they compete for the remainder of the year at all.

    I'm not sure when the entry for Butlins needs to be in for TBH...is it definitely before the nationals on 24th / 25th Sept? If so, I would hope that NEMBBA would have a contingency in place should this situation arise.
  11. Ruthless

    Ruthless Member

    Excuse me if I'm being really thick...but won't this affect 4 bands at the most each year.

    Those who are getting relegated know at the area contest as do those who are being promoted because of their continued sucess. The only time you will not know till october is if you are promoted from the finals. To do this you have to win the finals and not already have been promoted by right. Surely most of the time the finals is won by someone who is already promoted by right.
  12. michellegarbutt

    michellegarbutt Supporting Member

    The closing date for Butlins is Friday 2nd September
  13. imthemaddude

    imthemaddude Active Member

    I agree :tup Plus if you're going to the finals, surely you don't want to have another test piece on the go looking at serious detail before you've gone to the finals or, and this may not always be the case, but you stand less chance of winning the finals anyway. You always get 4 or 3 months between to work the Butlins one up.
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2005

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