Time to retire Sibelius?

Discussion in 'Computer Corner' started by BrianT, Jun 10, 2014.

  1. BrianT

    BrianT Member

    Anyone on here using Notion on iPad? Apple are plugging it at the moment...

    Is it time to retire Sibelius?
  2. David Evans

    David Evans Active Member

    I understood that the whole development team, British, had been disbanded last year when it was sold, and there would be NO further development of Sibelius. The development manager was quoted as saying that he intended to produce his own program in the future with many of the redundant software team.
    So, perhaps you are right and it is time.
  3. TheFopp

    TheFopp Member

    Sibelius is still getting updates. Version 7.5 has been released recently and they are working on version 8, but as David pointed out, the programming team were given the boot as AVID were trying to cut costs. They tried to assemble a team of programmers from Eastern Europe I believe, and now a new team has been assembled, but they have to try and figure out and learn the old code first.

    Steinberg, has snapped up the old Sibelius development team, and have for the last year been developing a brand new score writing package that looks very interesting indeed. There is a lot of work still to be done on it, but they are approaching in a whole new way and could well be worth the wait. I believe, once they have the PC/Mac version up and running they wish to build an iPad version that will compliment it. Daniel Spreadbury, who leads the Steinberg team, and formerly lead the Sibelius team has blog that is updated every to or three months showing how they are developing the new system. Its very interesting if you are into that sort of thing! ( http://blog.steinberg.net/ )
  4. MoominDave

    MoominDave Well-Known Member

    I'm on Sibelius 7.0 - I've been avoiding updating to subsequent releases as sacking a whole software team and buying in cheaper replacements that don't know the code seems an obvious recipe for the creation of silly bugs... Anyone have any comment on how recent Sibelius versions are doing relative to 7.0?
  5. BrianT

    BrianT Member

    All these posts about the political machinations at Avid/Sibelius are v. interesting, but slightly off-post. And don't knock 'Eastern European Programmers' - they're bright blokes, make no mistake. (Anyone fancy reading technical documentation in your second language and trying to understand it? It's hard enough when English is your first language!)

    What I like is the idea of having score software on the iPad - I just want to know if Notion is any good.
  6. DRW

    DRW New Member

    I've no experience of it, but this gives some insight.


    Sounds like it wouldn't be a suitable replacement for PC-based software, but isn't bad if you have to have something that works on an ipad.
  7. 2nd tenor

    2nd tenor Well-Known Member

    If someone knocked the Eastern Europeans it was probably unintential.

    "Sacking a whole software team and buying in cheaper replacements that don't know the code seems an obvious recipe for the creation of silly bugs" is true, true regardless of nationality and broadly true regardless of price. In this case the loss of particular experience and product knowledge is the issue. My general experience of Eastern Europeans is that they work hard and cause relatively little trouble, many struggle with English and that could well make some documentation difficult for them - assuming that it's not already available in their mother tongue.
    mikelyons likes this.
  8. Cornet Nev.

    Cornet Nev. Member

    Possibly leaving the door wide open for Finale I suppose, which is my preferred notation program any way. I did buy Sibelius and just couldn't work with it.

    However for anyone wanting to get into notational programs with little or no cost, there is always the open source MuseScore, which seems to try for the better parts of both Sibelius and Finale, however like most free programs, it does have several drawbacks, or useful stuff missing that the paid for does have.
  9. owain_s

    owain_s Member

    I seem to remember that MakeMusic, who produce Finale, were bought out by a venture capital firm not long ago? A similar situation to Sibelius, asset-stripping by flogging one final major 'update' by putting new programmers to work on the features already in production.

    The biggest problem, in the longer term, is that both programs use closed proprietary file formats. With Sibelius, every file is also encrypted by their own mechanism. Reverse-engineering these is nigh-on impossible, so there's a very real possibility that it will become very difficult to access one's own scores using any (future) everyday technology.
  10. Gordon Miller

    Gordon Miller New Member

    I had no idea the Sibelius team got the kick - I've not been following the manoeuvres of AVID since the takeover. I've been a Sibelius junkie for, gosh, at least 15 years now (since I was a high school student) but when Steinberg is ready it may well be time to move over there. I love the idea of a tablet platform to operate as a compliment.
  11. David Evans

    David Evans Active Member

    Here is the latest news on 'Dorico', Steinberg's alternative to Sibelius and Finale. It is now in Beta testing and estimated to be released in the next few months.

    www.steinberg.net • View forum - Dorico [pre-release]

    Here are the likely licensing arrangements

    Lets hope that the user manual is written by someone else.
    Slider1 likes this.
  12. Slider1

    Slider1 Active Member

    I maybe getting on a bit but Sibelius Does what I want it to do. Also it seems to understand my English.
  13. DocFox

    DocFox Retired

    I have Sibelius 7.5 and use it without complaint. I bought Finale, but I like Sibelius much better and never upgraded Finale. I also bought Sibelius First thinking I could use that for simple arrangements. It was awful and it collects dust. ScoreExchange is huge and is all Sibelius-based showing the huge Sibelius following. I bought Sibelius Version 1 many years ago and have been upgrading ever since. I have arranged hymns and church music mostly, although I do have two scores on ScoreExchange.

    I have lots and lots of arrangements done over the years. I would hate to see Sibelius disappear. Working on my iPad seems like more work than on the computer (my opinion). I guess time will tell. I might not jump to Sibelius 8 quickly, and wait and see if these new programmers get the hang of things.
    mikelyons likes this.
  14. gcbtrom

    gcbtrom Member

    Still using Sibelius 5...
    Have tried a Finale and couldn't get on with it.
    Have also tried muse score which is a backup for me.
    Slider1 likes this.
  15. DocFox

    DocFox Retired

    A good friend of mine who has written several fine pieces, but is stubborn, is still is using Sib 6. He is very knowledgeable. He has had symphonies and concert bands play his pieces. But because he cannot make a living off of his composing, he gets depressed. He will never upgrade. In fact, I doubt he will ever write another piece. But he knows Sibelius so well I can ask questions (I am usings 7.5) and he always helps me find a solution.

    I still think Sibelius is too well known and loved to be dropped. Improvements from version 1 to 7.5 have been a more convenient layout and better use of MIDI. Not sure a new version would give much to current users.
  16. GJG

    GJG Well-Known Member

    Now the initial version has been released, has anyone on here used Dorico "in anger" yet?
    First impressions?
  17. Richard N.

    Richard N. New Member

    Gareth - I have dabbled with Dorico and found it to similar to Sibelius (I'm not knocking Sibelius, just saying how I find it) in that you have to do what the software wants, not the other way around.

    As for prime time, there are many things missing including 1st/2nd time bars and drumkit notation- take a look on the Stenberg/Dorico forum, there are may advocate of the software, but the most common answer to technical queries is that Dorico "can't do this at the moment but we hope it will soon".

    There is a free demo that you can download and try.
  18. GJG

    GJG Well-Known Member

    Yes, I'm on the mailing list, and I did get a "free activation code" for a trial version. I haven't bothered downloading it yet, partly because of lack of time to mess around with it, but also because it seems strange that they've rushed out the first release without including some pretty basic required functionality.
    I'm only curious because I'm starting to lose confidence in Finale - not with the product itself but I find the way the present management team treats the customer base to be disturbing. The recent fiasco over their shutting down the user forum being a case in point.
  19. Richard N.

    Richard N. New Member

    There have been at least two updates since the initial release and more are due (it feels like one every couple of months). if you haven't activated the demo yet, I would suggest you hold back until the basic features you want are there - you only get one month trial at the current version so it you activate it now, you won't be able to try say drumkit notation when it is introduced at a later date.
  20. GJG

    GJG Well-Known Member

    Good point. The only thing is, although I'm on the mailing list, I don't seem to get any notifications of product updates ... I suppose they restrict those to people who've ponied up.

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