The Elephant - J. Ord Hume

Discussion in 'The Rehearsal Room' started by Mr. Stomvi, Sep 20, 2010.

  1. Mr. Stomvi

    Mr. Stomvi Member

    Ok - so I am sorting thru the BBB parts for J.Ord Hume's "The Elephant" and all of a sudden I come across of all things a part marked "1st Tenor Sax in Eb". Am I missing something here ??? Saxhorn ?? What the hell is it and why is it here ? :)

    Tanx in advance.
     
  2. baritone horn

    baritone horn New Member

    Some of these old marches, did use saxophones e.g the Eb is the alto, the Bb saxophone is the tenor which sometimes doubles up with the Baritone Saxhorn in Bb, whilst I believe the Baritone Saxophone is in Eb.

    In the Saffron Walden Town Band we have both saxes and the baritones/euphoniums, as we are a concert band. Julia Goowind
     
  3. Jan H

    Jan H Moderator Staff Member

    A lot of brass band music is also published for wind band or fanfare band (in Belgium and the Netherlands). In the old days, brass band composers would often just double certain parts on the wind instruments. Eg for a fanfare band:
    tenor horns -> alto sax
    baritons -> tenor sax
    Eb bass -> baritonsax
    cornet, repiano and flugel horn parts distributed amongst the 1st/2nd/3rd trumpets and 1st/2nd/3rd flugel horns
    soprano cornet part would be transposed to Bb for soprano saxophone
    This way, they could sell some additional copies accross the North Sea, without too much effort

    As a matter of fact, the band I play in still regularly plays brass band pieces, were we just distribute the brass parts around the band. Obviously this only works for rather simple pieces, because the balance and timbre would be changed a bit.
     
  4. cshimmon

    cshimmon Member

    As a baritone sax player, I'm fed up with being given Eb bass parts- we don't sound the same, look the same or even have the same range, but unfortunately most of or music is written with a brass band in kind and although the other sax parts and upper woodwind is usually more creative, I seem to be forgotten. Little off topic, but it's surprising the extent to which these instruments are overlapped and treated as the same.

    I'm very interested it says Eb tenor sax though, as modern tenor sax is Bb, alto and baritone are both Eb- I wonder which it would suit better...
     
  5. Mr. Stomvi

    Mr. Stomvi Member

    I can't wait to see the look on the face of my MD of my brass band when I ask who is going to play the Eb alto sax in the band :) The part I am afriad of is that she might say ME. :oops:
     
  6. Jan H

    Jan H Moderator Staff Member

    I expect the part may say something like 1st tenor horn / alto sax in Eb ???
     
  7. James Yelland

    James Yelland Active Member

    I remember once playing New York, New York in a wind band. One of the sax players was bemused as she had on her stand a part written, apparently, for saxophone in double E flat.

    It was pointed out that what she was looking at was actually the name of the composer - (Fred) Ebb. Cue gales of laughter.
     
  8. cshimmon

    cshimmon Member

    That would make sense
     
  9. Mr. Stomvi

    Mr. Stomvi Member

    Nope - the part reads "1st Tenor Sax Eb" and that's it.
     
  10. bassinthebathroom

    bassinthebathroom Active Member

    Dredging up some of the info I absorbed once in a Brass Band history lecture at Salford (knew it'd come in handy one day!) I seem to remember that it was, for some publishers, merely an abbreviation of Saxhorn, which was the name for what we now call the Tenor Horn
     
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  12. Mr. Stomvi

    Mr. Stomvi Member

    There is a "1st Horn Eb" and a "2nd Horn Eb" and the mysterious "1st Tenor Sax Eb"
     
  13. cshimmon

    cshimmon Member

    does anyone know when it was written? I wonder if it is from before the modern saxophone system was established, there were many variations prior to the 1940s
     
  14. Bass Trumpet

    Bass Trumpet Active Member

    I can't tell you exactly when, but I can state that it was written while the composer was working with Newtown Silver Band. He was staying in The Elephant hotel, hence the name. I can also state with an amount of certaintity (but not 100%) that Newtown has always been a brass band, so the additional reed parts were included by the publisher/editor.
     
  15. cshimmon

    cshimmon Member

    interesting
     
  16. Jan H

    Jan H Moderator Staff Member

    Maybe it's a typesetting error then?
     
  17. PeterBale

    PeterBale Moderator Staff Member

    Not quite true: when the saxophone was invented it was originally intended that there would be two sets of instruments, one in the now standard Eb/Bb and one in F/C. The latter never really took off, although the C "melody" sax remained in use for quite a while, clearly because the player could read straight off the piano copy.
     
  18. Bass Trumpet

    Bass Trumpet Active Member

    He died in 1932, so we might presume he didn't write much after that :biggrin:
     
  19. cshimmon

    cshimmon Member

    Wondered how long it would be before you joined this one peter! I was mainly using that Date as a reference to the last major keywork changes. With reference to this being called an Eb tenor, it was when the keywork changes came in that the naming was standardised wasn't it? In the same way that some countries call our tenor horn an alto horn, a similar thing happened with saxophones varying in name between the manufacturers until the modern keywork brought everyone together.

    Sorry for rambling a little, I'm typing on my phone!
     

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